next mod?
paulstalonesi
03-10-2006, 11:54 PM
hey guys hows it going, im new to the site, thought id ask ya all a question, well i own a 98 talon esi (non turbo) i recently put headers,high flow cat and cat back exhaust. Im about to order an AEM V2, i was wondering, do i really need a by pass valve? and id like to get some input as to what the next mod should be? and suggestions would be greatly apreciated
thanks
thanks
l_eclipse_l
03-11-2006, 01:02 AM
Bypass valve...no, unless you drive eratically in large rain storms.
Next mod I would say would be a bored TB and upgrade the ignition. Also, do your maintenance and read the FAQ on this site.
Next mod I would say would be a bored TB and upgrade the ignition. Also, do your maintenance and read the FAQ on this site.
EDMUND65
03-11-2006, 01:03 AM
sell it and buy a gsx or gs-t
crunchymilk55
03-11-2006, 01:36 AM
hehe I thought you were getting some sort of engine management from AEM..I was like wtf?
yes, get the bypass valve, you never know when you might hit a decent sized puddle
yes, get the bypass valve, you never know when you might hit a decent sized puddle
l_eclipse_l
03-11-2006, 02:33 PM
yes, get the bypass valve, you never know when you might hit a decent sized puddle
I have driven through some pretty nasty rain storms, and as long as you are careful you won't suck up any water. Drive slow and keep down on the throttle.
I have driven through some pretty nasty rain storms, and as long as you are careful you won't suck up any water. Drive slow and keep down on the throttle.
SLoe
03-11-2006, 06:56 PM
Bypass valve...no, unless you drive eratically in large rain storms.
Next mod I would say would be a bored TB and upgrade the ignition. Also, do your maintenance and read the FAQ on this site.
Something tells me the TB is not going to be a restriction with stock cams, valves, etc. If you go too big on TB on a NA engine, you don't really gain much power and wind up losing throttle response, and possibly running slower. There are probably alot of power gains to be found in the head/cams. Then deal with the TB when it becomes a restriction. Just my :2cents:
Next mod I would say would be a bored TB and upgrade the ignition. Also, do your maintenance and read the FAQ on this site.
Something tells me the TB is not going to be a restriction with stock cams, valves, etc. If you go too big on TB on a NA engine, you don't really gain much power and wind up losing throttle response, and possibly running slower. There are probably alot of power gains to be found in the head/cams. Then deal with the TB when it becomes a restriction. Just my :2cents:
l_eclipse_l
03-11-2006, 07:56 PM
Something tells me the TB is not going to be a restriction with stock cams, valves, etc. If you go too big on TB on a NA engine, you don't really gain much power and wind up losing throttle response, and possibly running slower. There are probably alot of power gains to be found in the head/cams. Then deal with the TB when it becomes a restriction. Just my :2cents:
I agree, but it's an easy mod to do on the 420A and you do get a power increase out of it.
Also, I just thought of another mod you can do that would free up a few ponies. Underdrive pulley.
I agree, but it's an easy mod to do on the 420A and you do get a power increase out of it.
Also, I just thought of another mod you can do that would free up a few ponies. Underdrive pulley.
david-b
03-11-2006, 08:23 PM
Crank Pully is a huge must for N/As. Don't go cheap on it though.
The bored TB is a great mod. You will get power out of it, even with no other head work done. You just need a CAI for it to get some power.
That bypass valve thing is useless. Don't get it unless you drive through pools of water. But it's your choice.
Ignition is always easy to do. Pretty cheap too. This includes plugs, wires, and a coilpack. It's not much power, but everything will work together alittle better if there's more spark.
And I agree with |_eclipse_|, get your maintence done and make sure that's all out of the way.
The bored TB is a great mod. You will get power out of it, even with no other head work done. You just need a CAI for it to get some power.
That bypass valve thing is useless. Don't get it unless you drive through pools of water. But it's your choice.
Ignition is always easy to do. Pretty cheap too. This includes plugs, wires, and a coilpack. It's not much power, but everything will work together alittle better if there's more spark.
And I agree with |_eclipse_|, get your maintence done and make sure that's all out of the way.
paulstalonesi
03-12-2006, 12:00 AM
well thanks for the tips guys, ya i decided not to get the bypass valve, just went ahead and ordered the AEM v2, ill let you know how it works out looks to be a decent product, so for someone who cant bore out there own TB, relatively how much whould it cost for someone else to do it? and im thinking after that maybe some cams, does anyone know in ball park range how much they are?
Thor06
03-12-2006, 12:03 AM
I'm with crunchy on the bypass thing. It sure wont hurt to have it, but may hurt not to. :2cents:
david-b
03-12-2006, 12:42 AM
Whys does everyone jump straight to cams? lol. Cams are going to start at around $400.
TB porting can be done for about $50 with downtime, and I've seen places that have ones in stock. It was like $130 or something, then you send yours to them, and you get core money back. Search around. There should be a shop around by you that may do it anyway.
You also really can't bore out your own TB. You can dremel out the inside to get it smooth, but that's really not giving anymore air flow. The best way is to get the hole TB bored at a size (say 55mm), and then get a new flapper made for it then also. Any place that'll do the boring will make the flapper too.
TB porting can be done for about $50 with downtime, and I've seen places that have ones in stock. It was like $130 or something, then you send yours to them, and you get core money back. Search around. There should be a shop around by you that may do it anyway.
You also really can't bore out your own TB. You can dremel out the inside to get it smooth, but that's really not giving anymore air flow. The best way is to get the hole TB bored at a size (say 55mm), and then get a new flapper made for it then also. Any place that'll do the boring will make the flapper too.
SLoe
03-12-2006, 01:06 AM
Whys does everyone jump straight to cams? lol. Cams are going to start at around $400.
TB porting can be done for about $50 with downtime, and I've seen places that have ones in stock. It was like $130 or something, then you send yours to them, and you get core money back. Search around. There should be a shop around by you that may do it anyway.
You also really can't bore out your own TB. You can dremel out the inside to get it smooth, but that's really not giving anymore air flow. The best way is to get the hole TB bored at a size (say 55mm), and then get a new flapper made for it then also. Any place that'll do the boring will make the flapper too.
Because, why do a mod that can actually hurt performance if you do it before it is necessary? On a near stock motor(exhaust, intake, etc) you will only gain 5-7 hp, with a decrease in throttle response. So why do it until it is necessary? Do the math, how much horsepower will a 52mm TB support? I really can bore out my own throttle body, but I will settle for porting it until it becomes a restriction. Porting increases velocity, which is very important. The faster the air gets in and out your engine, the better off you are. I seriously recommend not wasting your money on a bigger TB untill it becomes absolutely necessary. NOT a worthwhile mod on a NA until you reach a certain level. Cams on the other hand actually do something. The cams determine how much the valves are lifted. The cams determine how much air is let into/out of your engine. Everything in your engine effects everything else. Nothing else effects your engine as much as how much air is let into and out of it. An engine is an air pump period. The more air let into and out of it, the more power that is made. I am not trying to piss you off, but this is the truth as I know it, according to my experience.
Edit: Boring the TB out will increase airflow, but more importantly, you will lose velocity if your TB is not matched to your engine's performance level.
Here are some general numbers I found:
Gary Howell wrote:
"49mm TB flows 252 cfm
52mm TB flows 283 cfm
55mm TB flows 317 cfm
60mm TB flows 377 cfm
At 8200 RPM a 122 cubic inch engine will need 290 cfm at 100% volumetric effiency, using the formula ((Max RPM/2)*Displacement)/1728. Rule of thumb is to go 10% over because a naturally aspirated engine can go above 100% volumetric efficiency because of cam overlap, header design, etc. Go above that and you kill low end because of reduced velocity, go below that you starve the engine for air at top end. 110% is volumetric efficiency is 319 cfm."
"So a 2.0 turning 6500 rpm will require 229cfm plus the 10% which is 252cfm or a 49mm TB at the most. You already have a 52mm TB which is more than capable of providing the air your normally aspirated motor turning only 6500 rpm's will need.
Again more reason to just smooth and speed the flow and not try to increase it the volume of it."
TB porting can be done for about $50 with downtime, and I've seen places that have ones in stock. It was like $130 or something, then you send yours to them, and you get core money back. Search around. There should be a shop around by you that may do it anyway.
You also really can't bore out your own TB. You can dremel out the inside to get it smooth, but that's really not giving anymore air flow. The best way is to get the hole TB bored at a size (say 55mm), and then get a new flapper made for it then also. Any place that'll do the boring will make the flapper too.
Because, why do a mod that can actually hurt performance if you do it before it is necessary? On a near stock motor(exhaust, intake, etc) you will only gain 5-7 hp, with a decrease in throttle response. So why do it until it is necessary? Do the math, how much horsepower will a 52mm TB support? I really can bore out my own throttle body, but I will settle for porting it until it becomes a restriction. Porting increases velocity, which is very important. The faster the air gets in and out your engine, the better off you are. I seriously recommend not wasting your money on a bigger TB untill it becomes absolutely necessary. NOT a worthwhile mod on a NA until you reach a certain level. Cams on the other hand actually do something. The cams determine how much the valves are lifted. The cams determine how much air is let into/out of your engine. Everything in your engine effects everything else. Nothing else effects your engine as much as how much air is let into and out of it. An engine is an air pump period. The more air let into and out of it, the more power that is made. I am not trying to piss you off, but this is the truth as I know it, according to my experience.
Edit: Boring the TB out will increase airflow, but more importantly, you will lose velocity if your TB is not matched to your engine's performance level.
Here are some general numbers I found:
Gary Howell wrote:
"49mm TB flows 252 cfm
52mm TB flows 283 cfm
55mm TB flows 317 cfm
60mm TB flows 377 cfm
At 8200 RPM a 122 cubic inch engine will need 290 cfm at 100% volumetric effiency, using the formula ((Max RPM/2)*Displacement)/1728. Rule of thumb is to go 10% over because a naturally aspirated engine can go above 100% volumetric efficiency because of cam overlap, header design, etc. Go above that and you kill low end because of reduced velocity, go below that you starve the engine for air at top end. 110% is volumetric efficiency is 319 cfm."
"So a 2.0 turning 6500 rpm will require 229cfm plus the 10% which is 252cfm or a 49mm TB at the most. You already have a 52mm TB which is more than capable of providing the air your normally aspirated motor turning only 6500 rpm's will need.
Again more reason to just smooth and speed the flow and not try to increase it the volume of it."
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