HELP !!! Oil change from Hell

Hoping someone can help me with the next course of action, I took my blazer into a quick change place for an oil change and ended up having it towed out.

Stopped by the local quick change place to get my 3000 mile oil/filter change, while I was there I decided to have them perform their fuel system cleaner. To make a long story short, they completed my oil change perfomed the the fuel system treatment by running the solvent though a vacuum line and revving the engine. I then overheard the manger state "shit I forgot to put the oil in", she quickly reacnted and stated that she did put the oil in and beacause the "area manager" was visting she was just nervous. The guy from the pit yelled to her "don't scare me like that" . She took me to the office to pay when I noticed one of the oil techs pumping oil into my vehicle, when I asked what that was all about the manager said he was topping off the oil.

A few minutes later I saw a comotion in the bay to which the manager stated that they were having trouble starting my truck...a minuted later the "area manager" arrived and they asked him to see if he could start it...no luck. He said he was sure it was the battery as it would barely turn over

After 2 minutes trying to boost it, it started anf the thing revved up to "sounded like" 4000 RPM with a severe knocking. He shut it off and told me I should "get that checked out". I mentioned off to the side that I think they forgot to put oil back in it...he checked the oil and it was full but offered to change the oil again in case some of the fuel treatment got in the oil. The shop manager then approached us and stated "I did put oil in it".

They changed the oil and restarted the truck, we then noticed 0 oil pressure and a bad knock..The area manager stated he didn't see how anything they has done could cause this.....After 2 hours at the quick change I'd had enough and had the truck towed to a nearby garage right out of the bay. Unfortunately I'll have to wait until morning to find out the diagnoses.

1. Will the mechanic able to definitively see signs of oil starvation.
2. I'm assuming I need a new engine, does the fact that the damage happened while in their possession automatically assign liability.

Any advice would be appreciated...it's been a bad day.


Mike

Sure sounds like they forgot to put the oil in and the reason it barely turned over was because it was almost seized. The shop should be able to tell that by the heat and friction damaged parts and bearings which will be widespread thoughout the engine. You're going to need a total rebuild if that is what happened. You are also probably going to have to take them to small claims court to get paid. You'll need the mechanic as a witness (so pick a mechanic who not only is good with engines, but also would make a willing and credible witness) and it would surely help to have the burned up parts to bring as evidence. If you have always taken it there (or anywhere) every 3,000 miles for an oil change, it would help to bring in the receipts to prove that you have always kept up with the maintenance and that the damage was not caused by you neglecting regular oil changes. You should start by sending a letter by certified mail as soon as you have a diagnosis and estimate stating that on such-and-such a date they destroyed your engine by running it without oil, that it is currently at such-and-such shop awaiting repairs, that they are financially responsible, and that they should contact you immediately about arranging payment. Do not get into the details about what you saw and heard at the oil change shop in the letter (e.g. their denials)-- save that for court. Personally, I'd take it to a Chevy dealer for the diagnosis and estimate. How many miles are on the vehicle? Obviously, if you have 160,000 miles and no prior oil change receipts, then you are going to have a tough time. On the other hand, if you have 50,000 miles and they changed the oil every 3000 miles you should have a relatively easy time. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

Sue Their a$$es off.

SSSUUUUUUEEEEEE !!!!
All them places in my area have kids with no mechanical background . I have had friends with similar experiences . Rob

Be very loud and persistant!!!!! It'll be cheaper fixing your problem that the bad advertising.

I second that , LOUD and OFTEN . Rob

Once you find out what the status of your engine is from the shop you took it to, you will better know how to progress. However, I (unfortunately) had a job as an assistant manager of a "quick lube" place - well known and in every town in the country - and we had to pay for an engine replacement (not on my watch).
Your best bet is to contact the owner of the franchise and inform them of the situation - after you get your results, and if it is indeed a lack of oil. Every one of the franchises is required to carry insurance for just such a situation, and the owner - not the manager - is the one who you will need to talk to. Chances are, if you show them proof that it was caused by oil starvation they will replace or have the engine rebuilt for you.
The biggest thisg is don't take no for an answer, and be loud and very obvious when you state your calims. Do it publicly and loudly, they probably can't afford the bad press.

Sueeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

just dont take no shit from them whene you go to handel it. they should pay for a rental car and just tell them they are paying for it or you will see them in court.

You can probably pin it on them because most people will believe that no oil for a few minutes will ruin an engine. I am not sure how long it ran, but it normally will take a very long time to destroy parts at zero load and an rpm within limits.

I do not know what happened, you will see later, but I do not beleieve it was for lack of oil (whether they forgot or not)

Well, I got a call from the mechanic this morning and he confirmed that the engine has about 10 psi oil pressure. He said that the bearings are definitely shot but he can't assess the full extent or cause without tearing into the engine...regardless it means an engine replacement.

I called the Area manager this morning and he told me at first there was nothing he could do as the engine had alot of miles on it and was probably "on borrowed time"...he said the revving pushed it over the edge and they are not responsible. I told him I was going to seek legal advice and he would be hearing from someone shortly.

He called back an hour later and told me he "feels my pain" and as a goodwill gesture the company would be willing to return the truck to it's original state by paying for half of the installation of a used engine. The engine they has found as a baseline has 119000 miles. He actually told me I was getting a betterment because it was a lower mileage engine. The engine they are willing to get me is $ 350.00 shipped to my mechanic and their estimate is 650.00 to put it in....basically willing to cut me a check for $ 500.00 if I sign a release.

After checking around town...here's what I came up with :

GM Dealer
Reman from Gm : $ 4129.00 Installed 3yr 100000 mile warranty
Reman from AC Delco : $ $ 3538.00 2yr/24000 miles warranty

Carquest
Reman : $ 1505.00 plus someone to install

Local Mechanic : $ 1600.00 for used engine with 96000 miles installed.


I spoke with an attorney and he estimates that this will cost $ 1000.00 if we end up in court. The downside if my damages are limited in Iowa to the value of a 1998 engine with 160000 miles on it. The GM dealer said to prove it was run without oil for evidence in court will mean sending the old engine to a lab for analysis.


It seems no matter which way I slice this I'm screwed.

They ran the egine for about 5 minutes at 2500 RPM to do the "fuel system" treatment. I'm no mechanic but it ran smooth when I dropped it off and it ended up being towed out....so something happened. The mechanic said that the real deep knock, low oil pressure (10psi) and bearing sounds this is consistent with oil starvation damage. Again I'm no mechanic....

Does anyone know it the ECM would store codes for no oil pressure or any other insightful data ?

Well, of course you are. Justice costs. only the rich can have justice. Here is the deal. If you take it to court and loose: 1. youll end up paying your lawyer.
2. youll end up paying the mechanic.
3.Youll end up paying shipping to the lab and the lab costs.
4.and you will be without a vehicle.
Now if you win: all of t5his will be taken care of.
My question would be:
1. Can you afford Justice?
2. Can you afford to loose?
3. Are you absolutly sure you can win?
JM2C.....I feel your pain man!!!!!!

Hmm, your estimate is consistant in my area of around $3000 for a complete r&r. It does sound as if that is what did the damage (running without oil)

500 is nice, but could be more. It needs to be put back like it was and not cause you any loss. I know it already has, you have no car now.

Contact the owner, or the area manager with the information you just recieed. Obviously, the estimate that they gave you is low. You might want to counter with a settlement of 1/2 the cost of a reman via AC Delco or the dealer, or the full cost based on the numbers you were able to get from Authorized installers and ASE Mechanics.
Bring this to the attention of the other people that they have in the waiting room of the shop you used, loudly. It may buy you some more just to get them to stop you from costing them customers.

Another thought. Have you tried to contact their National Offices??

I feel your pain, my BIL went thru this a while back.

Don't expect to get anything better than what you had, motor wise (salvage yard unit with the same amount of miles is what a small claims court will accept- this is a small claims court case and your liability is limited by the courts.)

By all means, the store should pay for the motor and the installation, again nothing better than what you had unless you pay the difference.

Contact the Customer Service of the chain at the National level (find this on their we site).

If all else fails, park your truck in front of the store or in a lot next to the store, put a large sign on it stating they ran your truck without oil in it, call the local news media, and see how fast they want to settle.

Thats why I never take any of my automobiles to these shops. An engine will have damage almost as soon as you start it if it has no oil in it. First off, you have to provide reciepts to prove you have kept your maintenance up, it would be great if you do take it to the same lube place(perferably the one that caused the damage) Second, oil starvation can be evidenced by wiped oil bearing surfaces, with no oil in the engine, and at 2500 rpm, you can crack that sucker open and you will easily see damage to every bearing surface - crack the oil filter open that was there after the engine was filled with oil after the damage occured, it will be full of material, particularly bearing material - another abvious sign of oil starvation. referanc eand documant this. Thirdly they have already acknowledged that they may have had a fault in the damage - don't settle for a used engine, nobody can gaurentee that that engine will be as reliable as your original engine. Go back to the owner of this location and inform him of all the evidence you have gathered and remeind him that he has already acknowlwdged some fault by offering you the initial settlement. If at this point he still hesitates to settle the problem, notify you will then see him in small claims court, at which point you will be suing him for the cost of the engine including the labor to install it, any and all court costs, and any and all costs for the time for your agrivation to come to court(take time off work, car rental, etc, etc.) If it truely was oil starvation, and their neglect, this is easily proved in court.

You don't need to pay a lawyer, that is the whole purpose of small claims court. You should have no problem winning on liability due to the circumstances, but they do have a point regarding damages. Technically, they are liable for the cost of putting you back to where you were before -- with a decent running engine that had 160,000 miles on it. Assuming that your engine had 40,000 miles left on it, and that you could only expect to get say 100,000 miles from a rebuild, you could argue they should pay 40% of the PART cost of a rebuilt engine. However, they are also responsible for 100% of the LABOR and fluids cost of putting any engine in, since it should cost the same to install an old used engine as is does a rebuilt. They should also pay for towing and a rental car. Even if you don't actually rent a car, they should pay for loss of use which is comparable to the cost of a cheap rental car. The main issue in this case will be the measure of damages, and that is as I have stated above. You can present this in small claims court just as well as a lawyer, just remain CALM, RATIONAL and respectful no matter what they say and how much they piss you off. Trust me, I'm a lawyer.

Asking you to pay for 1/2 of their mistake is stupid.

If that's the best that you can do spread the word and see if you can cost them more that the cost in lost work.

Thats why I never take any of my automobiles to these shops.

Do the oil changes yourself or take the vehicle to a regular mechanic..

Years ago, I had the oil changed on my Cadillac at a Kmart Auto Shop.
It was convenient. After I left, less than a 1/2 mile down the road the oil light came on. I immediately pulled over and shut off the car.. I checked under the hood and there was no oil filter on the car...

As I walked back to the shop I fouind my oil filter laying on the side of the road..

Did I give them an earfull when I walked into the Shop. The Shop Manager gave me aride back to mycar - installed a new filer and oil, and offered me a free oil change. I told him forget it - I'd never again trust Kmart or any quick ahange place again..

Luckily there was no damage to the engine..

Bunch of Maroons...

I really appreciate all of your responses...this is a perfect example of laziness on my part...I have learned my lesson. I almost aways make them show me the dipstick before they start it..but in this case complacency is gonna cost.

While i weigh the costs of going to court or settling it..(I'd love to sue they bastards for more than just and engine) my lawyer thinks it''s take maybe a year (and 1000 bucks) if it goes all the way.

The lawyer is a guy I know and trust (I know it seems crazy afterall he is a lwayer)...he told me I could do it myself, but in his experience they will file motion after motion and try to draw this out as long as possible...he told me they know they are limited to the cost of a 160000 mile engine installed with no punitive damages. Since they probably have had this happen before and have someone on retainer...it'll cost me more than it costs them.

Anyone have any recomendations for a good reman blazer engine...A good friend of mine's Father is a retired mechanic and said he would install it for 200.00 bucks...can't beat that.

I'll keep the old engine in case it's needed for evidence. I will tell you one thing I WON'T sign a release that keeps me from talking about this. We live in a town of 15000 and word spreads quickly.

Thanks again everyone.

BTW..the area manager of the quick lube said he would include 100.00 in gift certificates..so if anyones's looking for a gift for that special someone...let me know they'd be real cheap :)

Hmm, I like what the lawyer said. I am wondering also if it was a mistake to have vehicle towed?

Probably right....i should have left it in the bay as a warning to other customers :)

Anything else I should do while the thing is apart (ie. fuel injection)....it's a VIN code 'W'

I really appreciate all of your responses...this is a perfect example of laziness on my part...I have learned my lesson. I almost aways make them show me the dipstick before they start it..but in this case complacency is gonna cost.

While i weigh the costs of going to court or settling it..(I'd love to sue they bastards for more than just and engine) my lawyer thinks it''s take maybe a year (and 1000 bucks) if it goes all the way.

The lawyer is a guy I know and trust (I know it seems crazy afterall he is a lwayer)...he told me I could do it myself, but in his experience they will file motion after motion and try to draw this out as long as possible...he told me they know they are limited to the cost of a 160000 mile engine installed with no punitive damages. Since they probably have had this happen before and have someone on retainer...it'll cost me more than it costs them.

Anyone have any recomendations for a good reman blazer engine...A good friend of mine's Father is a retired mechanic and said he would install it for 200.00 bucks...can't beat that.

I'll keep the old engine in case it's needed for evidence. I will tell you one thing I WON'T sign a release that keeps me from talking about this. We live in a town of 15000 and word spreads quickly.

Thanks again everyone.

BTW..the area manager of the quick lube said he would include 100.00 in gift certificates..so if anyones's looking for a gift for that special someone...let me know they'd be real cheap :)

Don't call your self lazy. Sometimes you just don't have the time needed to change oil and you would expect a professional company not to screw something that simple up. Hope everyrhing works out for you.

Well lets hear the name of the oil change shop that did this. Also some of the best prices I foumd while looking for a reman engine came from this place, they also have a good warrenty.

http://www.citymotorsupply.com

I'd like to know what company is but the moderators might delete the name from this thread. (They are really supposed to, since it's a form of soliciting)

If you don't get the service that you deserve how about sending us all a PM, along with their head office e-mail address and the info that you want us to forward. They might treat you right with 10+ letters of complaint

Wow, this is ridiculous.

You didn't do anything wrong, and you shouldn't be paying a single dime for anything.

The manager getting back to you means that he is caught and he is trying to get out of it cheaply.

You came in with a perfectly running engine and you left with a busted one.

This is their responsibility, get it fixed and then take them to court for the costs plus you lawyers fees.

Talk to someone higher than the area manager and cause some shit. Don't back down just because they filled your head with bullcrap.

They screwed your engine and regardless of mileage, it is their responsibility to fix it.

Trust me, I'm a lawyer.


:evillol:

The lawyer your talking to isn't a friend is he? Because this is the kind of case that I have always done for free for my friends. Well, if you do decide to pursue it in court, suggest to your lawyer that he make the complaint 2 counts instead of 1. The first count would be the usual breach of contract/negligence damages, as discussed above. But in the second count I would claim "fraud and fraudulent concealment" which would allege the lies and coverup you originally told us about. Since these lies were intended to defraud you, you can claim "punitive damages" in addition the usual compensatory damages. This would provide a legal framework enabling the judge to give you 100% (or more) of the entire cost of repairing your vehicle if he believes your story and finds their behavior despicable. If your state has a consumer protection law modeled after the federal law (as most states do), you can also add a count 3 alleging a violation of that law, which almosts always provides for recovery of your attorneys' fees and sometimes allows recovery of triple damages. If you hit them with a well-drafted complaint with these 3 counts, you have a great chance of settling for 100% of the repair cost before you ever get to court because you have just greatly raised the bar on their potential liability. Good luck. And as an aside, Jiffy Lube's handiwork is the reason I made the time to do all of my own auto maintenance.

I Like the way that AJT thinks. He has a strong point in the approach you should take, and coming from a lawyer it has some creedence.
I spoke with my sister about this, she is an assistant states attorney in CA, and she mentioned some of the same things AJT mentioned. Look into your states consumer protection laws, and also bring this to the attention of the BBB.
Another thing, continue to take it as far to the top as you can. Contact any corporate offices, and the customer service people. They will put pressure onteh franchise from a corporate level, and it will help you.

>>>Trust me, I'm a lawyer.

Ha, you caught that. That's my favorite line. I'm always amazed that most people don't see the humor in that statement. It's right up there with, "Hello, I'm from the government and I'm here to help you."

yeah the whole thing about them giving you an equivalent used engine really sucks... theres some engines with 150000 miles that run like new that old people drove, and if they have your same dilemma, then they may get a 150000 mile-ish piece of crud that leadfoot louey beat the crud out of for ten years...
they should just admit they were wrong...

by the way, if the manager told you they put oil in it (if it is proven it was starved of oil) and therefore lied to you and tried to get you out of there, is there some kind of fraud associated with that? i would look into that...

I've had 1 Lawyer that I trust, and almost hired another Lawyer for the same case that I also trust.

So they're out there.

And just from your posts I think that you must be prettty honest AJT1961

The whole thing is they are putting you out of you vehicle due to stupidity and a poor job.

You are entitled to compensation for that.

I definitely feel your pain I had a similar accident, but with a serious ending.. I took my car to FireStone 5yrs ago in Lynwood Illinois for a tuneup and to replace missing vac lines on the engine to my 84 V8 Pontiac GrandPrix and after leaving the place the engine was running awesome so much horsepower restored it was nice. I was on my way home when I smelled something burning, but I kept driving for about 2miles until I seen black smoke coming from my car so I slammed my foot on the brakes jumped out of the car only to notice the car was on fire. I immediately went for the fire extinguisher in the trunk, but I was unsuccessful putting the fire out so I ran from the car in fair the damn thing was gonna blow cause the flames were so thick and the whole bottom of the car was in golfed in flames. I was down a back road and had no cell phone so all couldI do was watch my car burn. I was lucky when I spotted a cop I flagged him down and he got his extinguisher out but couldn't get the fire out either so he called the fire department and when they finally showed up the fire entered the interior of the vehicle and pretty much a total loss. The firemen told me the fire was being fed by leaking gasoline from the fuel filter. I had the car towed back to FireStone where the manager was a total prick and refused to pay and I just flipped and got into his face and told him I was gonna beat him down right there and then. I filled a law suit on firestone.. I waited 2yrs when I was finally offered $800 I refused and they countered with $850 I once again refused and their lawyer told mine the price of my vehicle is $600 I had so much done to my car it was unreal I had the engine rebuilt, Trans, painted, racing tires, tinted windows, sound system the works. I was not gonna take $850. Well to cut a long story short we went to court and the judge said I didn't sufficiently prove my case and ruled against me.

I hope this doesn't happen to you so if you think you have a solid case which you do, but I thought sense the dumbass mechanic didn't tighten my fuel filter bolt up it was a open an close case, but I ended up with nothing so I guess I was in the wrong for my car burning up and almost getting killed. Thanks FireStone!!!

After a couple of days to think about it I'm going to use a different lawyer and sue...even if I don't get everything taken care of from a financial standpoint, maybe making this public will do some good for someone else.

I spoke with one of the local GM dealers and he told me they've had 3 separate cases in the past 2 years of engine replacements due to this company's neglect. He told me that any offer the oil change company makes will be contain a clause that restricts a person from talking about the incident or assigning fault. The tow truck driver told me his shop replaced a rear end when the lube place forgot to refill the rear diff (seems impossible).

The question will be how to prove the engine has damage from lack of oil short of send it to NASA.

AJT1961 - I live in Iowa and was told that i cannot claim for costs in small claims court. I will definitely check into it...Will speaking about the incident in public cause any potential problems to a case ? I'd love to buy an ad in our local newspaper but I don't want to jeopardize my claim.

For example only !!! : IF I mentioned the company was http://www.speedlube.com could they counter sue beause the facts have not come out in court yet.

you have a strong case for you.

You went in with a strong engine. You left on the hook.

You witnesses the one person saying they forgot to put in the oil. You see the damage that can only be caused by a lack of oil.

You have the offer of compensation from the area manager.

They know they are in the wrong and they have insurance to cover this, make them use it.

I wouldn't pay for an ad, I'd call the local TV news stations first-- they all have a reporter who handles consumer affairs stories, and this is a story that almost everyone can relate to. They love this kind of crap. You tell them everything including the dealer's story about three other cases and the tow truck driver's story. After you call the first station, tell them you'd like an answer in 24 hours because if they pass you'd like to call the second station. I don't know where in Iowa you are, but you must have local affiliates for ABC,CBS,NBC and FOX. I wouldn't worry one bit about getting sued -- almost never happens, and truth is a total defense (and they know they did wrong). If you can get in touch with the franchise owner, you might consider calling and telling him what you are planning and that you want him to pay 100% of the cost to fix what they did to your vehicle. You should also file a report on RipOffReport.com -- it's free and sometimes it actually works.

>>>AJT1961 - I live in Iowa and was told that i cannot claim for costs in small claims court.

I don't know anything about Iowa law, but usually if you are suing under a statute (like a Consumer Fraud Statute), your ability to recover attorneys fees and costs is granted by that statute, not the rules of your particular small claims court. And besides, if you file in small claims court yourself, the "costs" are only the filing fees which are usually small.

Rick1488, Firestone had a new shop in Chilliwack BC Canada when I grew up there. It didn't last long due to that sort of thing plus their bill to change an air filter was over $100.00 type thing.

I think that the entire company is on borrowed time, and can't see them staying alive after the Ford problems.

Too bad though, their Bridgestone division makes pretty good tires.

I haven't seen anyone mention yet to contact the Better Business Bureau.

You have my sympathy... good luck sticking it to those ^*(#@#*s. :(

Don't these places have insurance and bonding? Ask who their insurance company is, call them up and ask to file a claim. Regardless of what you see on TV, running an engine without oil will destroy it in short order. I don't see why you should have to pay for their mistake.

Yip, he doesn't have to put up with it, and they do have insurance, they just don't like to use it.

Yip, he doesn't have to put up with it, and they do have insurance, they just don't like to use it.

Thanks agin everyone for your words and wisdom and encouragement. I spoke to a highly recomended lawyer on Saturday and he has successfully sued this particular company 7 times for similar circumstances. I relaize that I could file myself....but I want to make sure this company gets what they deserve. I have already filed a complaint with the BBB and Iowa attonry general's office.

Next week I plan on getting my truck fixed and would like an opinion on :

1. GM dealer supplied engine - 1970.00 + 200.00 core deposit 3yr 100,000 mile warranty from any GM dealer.

2. NAPA and Carquest both carry the Gopher reman from Minneapolis for 1470.00 + 571.00 core deposit 3 yr 36,000 mile warranty.


I'm leaning towards the GM engine as it's warrantied by all GM dealers...since I probably will need to keep the old engine until the case is resolved the short term cash outlay will be about the same. GM also seems to be more leanient when it comes to core condition....some of the reman I have come across specifically mention a 50 % to 100 % core penalty for engines run without oil. Although this will be part of the damages I ask for isn't a sure thing.

Gm motor is only a little bit more and has a better warranty.

Gm motor is only a little bit more and has a better warranty.

10-4 on that s10blazerman4x4

The new dealer GM target master engines are warranted at 3 year or a 100K parts and labor now.
They come with oil pan and front timming cover and heads and valve covers already on them and are all brand new. No rebuilt No exchange where you can keep your old engine for evidience.
Good luck with your case. They did it so Make them suckers pay.
MT