1992 Grand Voyager Transmission Whining when cold

I have a 1992 Grand Voyager transmission that whines when it is cold. It goes away when it warms up.

It appears that when it is cold, reverse is a little sluggish as well. Of course it is pretty cold in Wisconsin this time of year.

The dipstick appears full when checking in park.

Everything else appears normal, outside of the fluid looking darker then it should.

I have read tons of stuff on this site, about caravan transmissions, but I found nothing for a 1992, only later models.

What fluid should I change to?

What is a way to flush it all out?

Does this sound serious? I hope this is not the beginning of the end.

The van has 139,000 miles.

I don't know the history as I just got it.

Anybody know what Transmission this might be?

Thanks in advance.

Anybody? LOL

By the way, does anybody know if I have the three speed or four speed tranny?

Did they make both for this year?

I know that my column reads D-2-1. But I don't know if I have overdrive or a locking converter, or anything else.

I have read that the three speed tends to be more durable. Does this seem to be the general consensus?

Which engine do you have? Found this on the net: 1992 Plymouth Voyager: Among other changes for 1992, the Grand Voyager is available with a lower-cost powertrain. A 142-horsepower 3.0-liter V6 and 3-speed automatic can be substituted for the standard 150-horsepower 3.3-liter V6 with its 4-speed automatic.

From what I've been able to tell, the 3-speed seems to be more reliable in general. Don't know if this applies, but I've noticed my 2000 Neon w/3-speed automatic sometimes whines when I put it in reverse and back out of the garage. Goes away as soon as I put it in drive. Been doing it for a couple of years. Asked my tranny guy about it and he didn't seem to think it was anything to worry about. Haven't had any problems with it yet with 68K on it.

You might want to go on ebay and see if you can find an owner's manual or get a Haynes or Chilton's. I got both for my 98T&C. Find I use them quite a bit. Anyway, hope this helps.

Thanks for your reply.

I can't believe I didn't post my engine. LOL

I have a 3.0.

I do have a Haynes manual. But for transmissions, I find them worthless. They tell you where your supposed to find the tin. (Transmission ID Number) I looked where they say it's supposed to be and don't see this little hump they are talking about.

My Haynes Manual doesn't even tell me how to tell what transmission I have.

So you think I might have the 3 speed?

Does anybody know what fluid I am supposed to use?

Or if anybody could take a crack at the other questions above, I would appreciate it.

Thanks

A little information goes a long way. It sounds to me that you have 3-speed transmission with lock-up converter. The 3-speed has the "P-R-N-D-2-1" shift pattern. The "ultradrive" 4-speed automatic has the "P-R-N-D-3-L" shift pattern.

The 3-speed is a hydraulically controlled transmission, which is a miniturized version (internally) of the old 727 & 904 torqueflites. I have one of these units behind the 2.5L Turbo engine in my 1991 Dodge Shadow. These units are just as reliable as the old torqueflites, so long as you don't overstress them. The power output from your 3.0L V-6 is about the maximum power you can put through these units without having it scatter internally as they age.

The 4-speed "ultradrive" automatic is an electronically controlled transmission. They have their own internal computer and they are particular about the fluid you put in them. Most of the problems related to the ultradrive are a function of incorrect fluid use and failure of electronic components. Many transmission repair shops capitalize on these transmissions by automatically recommending a $3,000+ rebuild when all that is needed is an new $50 electric module.

There is one definite way to tell which transmission you have in your van. Get in, roll down the driver side window, put the transmission in N and start the van. Stick your head out of the window and listen carefully. With your foot on the brake, drop the selector from N into D. If all you hear is the clunk of the transmission going into gear, you have a 3-speed. If you hear a buzzing noice that stop once the transmission is fully in gear, you have a 4-speed.

As I said before, I believe you have a 3-speed. Now the next question I have is, "When was the last time the transmission fluid and filter were changed?" If you cannot answer that question, then it is time to change the transmission fluid and filter.

This next part pertains only to the 3-speed automatic. While you are changing the fluid, you should check the adjustment of the bands. The Low/Reverse band adjustment is inside the pan, so you have to do this with the pan off. The Kickdown band adjustment is on the side of the transmission case. Service manuals should contain information on these adjustments.

Let us know what you find and what happens.

Regarding transmission fluid. I read the following in my owners manuals.

For the 3-speed with lock-up, the manual for my 1991 Dodge Shadow recommends using "Mopar ATF+" or the equivalent "ATF Type 7176" It states that the use of DEXTRON II is can be used in an emergency if "ATF Type 7176" is not available.

For the 4-speed ultradrive, the manual for my 1998 Town&Country recommends using only "ATF Type 7176". It warns that using any other type of ATF will decrease shift quality and cause lock-up shudder.

Thanks for the information. I also believe I have the 3 speed.

I will always come back to a thread and post my findings.

I just bought the van, so I don't know the history, but it does look like a Tranny fluid change is in order.

Can I undo the tranny line and flush it myself into a bucket, adding additional tranny fluid as it drains?

Do you think the whining from the transmission could be the transmission pump?

Does it sound like something to worry about?

I do have the haynes manual, but as I said it is pretty generic when it comes to transmissions.

They have about 4 or 5 pages attempting to cover all of the transmissions. Where can I find the instructions to adjust the bands while I have the pan off?

I have been a backyard mechanic for 25 years, (my auto's, friends, and family) and feel quite comfortable dissasembling most things, but haven't messed much with transmissions. So when I take off the pan you say I can adjust the low band, and the other is on the side of the tranny.

Does anybody know where I can find the adjusting procedure?

I have read about some of these Chrysler tranny's that you should use the dealer filter. Does using the dealer style filter on this transmission apply to this transmission as well, or would it be allright to go with an aftermarket filter and gasket?

Again, thanks for the replies, and I will keep you updated.

This site may be of value to you: http://www.allpar.com/eek/autox.html

Unfortunately, it doesn't have pictures.

I did happen to see that link a few minutes ago while searching google.

In that link it says.

"The other one (low-reverse band) is much more problematic in adjusting since it requires removal of the transmission oil pan to access and MAY also require removal of the filter, parking rod e-clip and parking rod in order to gain sufficient clearance to adjust.
In addition to this it also requires the use of a precision torque wrench since that the books state the inner bolt has to be tightened to "41-inch lbs" before backing it off the recommended number of turns and tightening the lock bolt down to its specified torque."

Unfortunately it does't say what the recommended turns are for my 1992 3 speed in a Voyager. It also doesn't cover the procedure to do the adjustment that you have to do from the outside of the transmission.

I got some information for you. My Haynes Manual for 1987 through 1994 Shadow/Sundance has the band adjustment procedure in the first chapter.

Adjustment specs:

Kickdown Band (front) - tighten to 72 in-lbs (6 ft-lbs), then back off 2-1/2 turns.
Low/Reverse Band (rear) - tighten to 41 in-lbs (3.4 ft-lbs), then back off 3-1/2 turns.

Adjustment procedure - Back off the lock nut at least 5 turns. Tighten the center screw to proper torque, then back it off the specified number of turns. Hold the adjustment screw stationary and tighten the lock nut.

Other specs:
transmission oil pan bolts - 170 in-lbs
Filter to valve body screws - 40 in-lbs

The kickdown band adjustment screw and locknut is on top of the trans case. The adjustment screw points vertically out of the case. The plane of the locknut is horizontal. Locate your trans dipstick. Then look up from the dipstick and slightly to the driver's side to locate this adjustment screw.

The low/reverse band is located along the driver's side edge, inside the case. You will need to remove the filter and disconnect the parking rod from the lever to gain access to the adjustment screw. The screw is located above the parking rod lever. My manual shows them using a socket, universal swivel joint and short extention on the in-lbs torque wrench to adjust this screw.

I don't think you have to be that exact with the torque tightening sequence. The band adjustment specs for a 727 torqueflight are similar. I knew a man who was a Chrysler trained Torqueflight mechanic. I once asked him how precise you had to be when adjusting the bands, which, too, had to be tightened to 72 in-lbs. He told me that he would just snug the screw slightly from hand tight and back up the required turns. He said that was just as accurate. But I will let you be the judge with your car.

I hope this helps.

A couple other things:

I suspect that your filter is well plugged, causing the fluid to cavitate after it passes through the filter. This is most likely the cause of your whining noice.

Don't worry about trying to flush out all the transmission fluid. You will dump about half of the old fluid when you drop the pan. Just replace with new and continue to drive. If you still feel uncomfortable after that, then drop the pan again in a few months are replace another half of the mixture again. A 50/50 or 75/25 mix of new and old fluid will not hurt your transmission. I have been told by some that complete replacement of fluid in a high mileage automatic may do more harm than good. But I have no personal experience either way.

Thanks for the reply.

It looks like it took some time, and I appreciate that.

I too had something happen to me that made me wonder.

I had a Ford Aerostar once that I changed the fluid and filter on. Three weeks later the transmission wouldn't shift out of first. That was wierd, and it always made me wonder.

When I get a chance to change the filter and do the band adjustment, I will come back and give an update.

Thanks again.

Well, here's my opinion,
And if you search this forum, there's a lot in here about the trans and trans fluid....

Don't use anything but 7176, ATF+3 or ATF+4 in this 3 speed tranny, or you will be sorry you did. I will Guaranty you that!

NEVER USE DEXRON II, III or IV in This trans, you will sludge the solenoid packs. And thier malfunction will destroy the transmission.

Transmission whine in the 3 speed is pretty normal, almost sounds like a worn out power steering pump, but there is some noise, and it's usually just normal wear.
I had a 90 Gr. Voyager with this trans, and it made it to 168,000 miles on the original trans, and always whined a little. Sold that and bought a '96 GrVoyager 3.0 and 3sp auto, which I still have, with 138,000 miles on it, and yes, it whines, too.

Change fluid and filter every 40K miles.

Tom

Thanks, I am glad to hear that somebody else has listened to the whine for an extended period of time.

What I didn't want is a bunch of posters saying, "After that whine started the transmission went out two weeks later." LOL


Thanks to everybody, and I will see how this goes, maybe get back after the fluid, filter, and band adjustment.

Hello,
It's been a little while, but I finally got around to changing my filter and fluid, and adjusting the bands. Of course the whining seemed to go away except the reverse thing when it was cold, even before I changed the filter and fluid. I think the whining thing was maybe because the van sat for a while.
But anyways, the reverse thing when it was cold seemed t ogo away after adjusting the bands, changing the fluid and filter. We'll see how long this lasts.
Thanks for all the replies.

Kmaniac ........ You are da Man !!! :)

I have a 99 Dodge Caravan 3.3 with 4 speed automatic and ironically, with 140k mi on it which is similar to Mikmic2 (the original poster who started this post). Mine too was whining when cold and go away as it warmed up. As a matter fact, the colder it was, it would get louder and last longer. It was so loud recently, that it was turning heads as I drove down the road (kind of embarrassing).

So, I took your suggestion. I bought a filter kit which came with the pan gasket and 4 quarts of transmission fluid. They didn't have the ATF7176 so I used the ATF +4. I drained the transmission and dropped the filter then put the transmission in neutral and started up the engine 2 times for 10 seconds each time to pump out any fluid. I had to scrap the pan gasket pretty good with the gasket scraper because the previous person who serviced this, used form-a-gasket .... yuck. I also found a magnet in the bottom of the pan which they had previously put there and had collected quite a bit of sludge blended with metal dust (No shavings though ... Thank GOD). I am not sure if this was a preventative measure or were they aware of something else going on. Reinstalling, I used a thin layer of grease on the pan to hold the gasket in place and coated the top with transmission fluid much like installing an oil filter.

I put all 4 quarts in then topped it off with another 1/2 I had in the garage after checking the temp when warmed up in park. I am happy to say ...... I am now whine free. The transmission sound great at 32 degrees for the past 2 days and there is a very slight whine which goes all the time but does not vary with the temperature ..... I CAN LIVE WITH THAT.

What I find interesting, I dug through the service records provided to me by the previous owner and he had the transmission oil and filter done about 30k mi. ago. I wouldn't have performed another oil change but, what Kmaniac said in the post about the fluid cavitating, made sense to me and guess what ................ IT WORKED. and best of all, the job was only about $30.00.

Thank YOU Kmaniac you get a Gold star from me.

I hope this helps others too.

Dan