Bad Gas? Fuel Filter?

This might be a little long winded. But I will give you all the details so it is easier for you to help me :). Here is my situation. I'll start from a few days ago.

I am driving a 1995 Pontiac Grand AM Se (V6 3.1). She has about 135,000 Kilometers on her, (about 80,000ish miles).

On Thursday the temperature was -45 degrees Celsius so the car wouldn't start (fair enough). I got the car boosted and she started shooting engine coolant all over the place (it got into the belts). So I turned it off and took it in. Turns out the water pump is fine and it stopped leaking (very strange but I am happy with that).

On Saturday I washed the car including under the hood so I could watch for antifreeze leaks. The car continued to run fine.

On Monday I was leaving work and went to start the car, she was tough to start (I had to keep giving it gas or it would stall out). When driving it was real rough and jerky, so I took straight home and parked it.

Yesterday, I decided I was going to try and take a look, I noticed to of the spark plug wires seemed lose (one more than the other), maybe from the water pressure when washing the car? I snugged them and tried to start the car, same problem. To talk about the starting problems -- Once I get the car started which is a challenge, it runs for a few minutes and dies out, then it is even harder to start --.

So last night I decided the change the fuel filter on my own (which an accomplishment for me). After changing the fuel filter she ran like a dream. Took her for a couple of spins yesterday.

This morning I went to start it and I had the same problems. I fiddled with one of the spark plug wire and she started and ran better (coincidence or a fix I am not sure). I took it to the gas station as she was getting low and I am kind of hoping the problem might be bad gas and filled it up, and also put a bottle of fuel injector cleaner in it.

Haven't tried to start it yet. We shall see. Do you think it could be a fuel problem? What else can you suggest? I have done a lot of reserach here and see that there is a lot of knowledgable people.

Thanks,

AspDotNetGuy

Welcome to the Forum!

Your description was not long winded, you gave all the necessary detail to help develop some recomendations to help with your issues.

It sounds like you may need a good Injector cleaning, I had a poor running condition in my 96 2.4L, even though most of my problem was related to the ignition and it's electrical components, I had the injectors cleaned professionally and the car ran better than new. (4 Cyl about $60.00 american)

It also sounds like you couls use a new set of spark plug wires, i would be willing to bet that the cold weather your having is causing the boots to worl loose but for that to happen they have to be bad to begin with. I do not know how much a set of plug wires will cost my quad 4 uses a wire that is more like a boot rather thatn a full wire.

You may want to change out the spark plugs as well, it will not hurt, but can make a big difference in your starting and running,expecially in your temps.

I hope this helps to me it sounds like it may be the root of your problems. With the age and milage on your car it would be more like general maintenance

Let us know how things turn out.

I have plugs and wires and will change them on the weekend regardless but I was hoping my problem would be solved. My existing wires look good, but hte old owner said they havnen't been changed. For the 40 buxks they cost me I will just put the new ones on.

Is cleaning the fuel injectors something I should stay away from trying to do myself?

The shop also sold me an 02 sensor should I put it on or return it? THey suggested it but I don't want to spend a bunch of money on the car if I don't have to as I will not have it for more then a year.

When it comes to the injector cleaning I have found that using the fuel additives help out but a professional cleaning seems to do the job better, I can tell you that I was using the fuel additives before I had the cleaning done and the difference in the way the ran was like night and day. I still continue to add a bottle of additive about every 5000miles. Besides they can tell you if you have a bad injector while they are doing the cleaning. I know that injectors can be very expensive (at least when I looked at them for my car). I would try the injector cleaning before installing the O2 sensor, you may find that with the fuel being delivered to the cylinder properly that the car will run better and thus the exhaust gases will be at the correct levels and then you may not have to change the O2 sensor. This is just my opinion, and what I would do if I were in your position, however it is got going to hurt anything eo replace the O2 sensor, in fact the car may run better, but at the same time you may redevelop the problem as the sensor begins to get dirty.

I'd try the plugs and wires first. It should greatly improve starting and performance.

Sounds like the fuel filter helped with your starting also.

Youcan test the O2 sensor in your car to see if its working correctly, I'm not exactly sure what the voltage should bee on your 95', but I'm sure someone around here does know.

When it gets really cold(-40s) fuel injectors and pumps work slower so it can be hard to start. They do sell heaters you plug in to keep the engine warmed over night, I hav even used a heat lamp shining onto the oil pan when I hav had Extreme cold.

Yeah, but the car has typically been okay in this whether. It is harder to start and what not, but should or has in the past run better in this weather.

I did forget to mention that I do have a hole in my muffler it needs to be replaced but the car has been running fine despite this so I don't think it is the cause. I will replace it when I have more time and money (in a few weeks).


My car has a block heater (all cars in Canada do) :)

Could bad gas have been the culprit. I just ran the car for a while and she started and ran great again (however maybe the problem will be isolated to the mornings when the car has say all night?).

Thanks for the help and advice.

The whole antifreeze spraying everywhere... then it was ok thing, freaks me out, never heard of such a thing, keep an eye on your antifreeze level so you don't cook your motor when the weather gets warmer. Check the oil and make sure its not gray (make sure there's no antifreeze or water in there). Hope you had your block heater plugged in so its not a cracked head.

As for the non start issue, i'd say good plug wires would be your best investment, (i've had problems with cheap autozone crap, I use OEM only) I tend to spend twice as much for good parts so I don't have to do the job twice. Ran OEM plug wires for 5 yrs on my truck, did a tune up and replaced them with autozone lifetime warrenty crap, replaced 1 yr later, replaced the next year, bought OEM and haven't replaced them in 3+ yrs.

Sounds like you took care of part of the problem with the fuel filter, in those low temps i would think maybe you got some gas with water in it, when it sat for a long time it froze up, you got rid of the worst part of the blockage by changing the fuel filter. Then when you sprayed off the motor you got some water in that old plug wire, then when it froze it pushed the wire off, have you pulled it off to see everything is dry with no ice? A torch and a little time may make run until you get time to put on new wires, dry it out and put a dab of greese on the plug boot to seal it up until you replace it.

Hmmm....

There wasn't any ice on or in the plug wires. I turned the lights out in the garage yesterday and revved the engine. Got my friend to watch for arcing and sparking from teh plug wires. He didn't see anything. I will change them anyway.

The turns over and starts its just that it seems to starve out. It needs the gas pedal depressed. Then after running for a few minutes it stalls.

Now the crakced head issue: I car was not plugged in (it was but the breaker in the house was blown). What is the likelyhood of cracked head? I am really concerned about that now.

Alright, sorry I read the post too quickly, this time I took the time to read digesting everything slowly. Didn't mean to scare you about the head thing, re-reading I can see im probably off base there, check your oil & make sure you still have antifreeze, then change your plug wires. (thats been the causes of all of my morning starting problems)

It just scares me when someone says "it leaked and then just quit" this usually means "its out of that fluid now", but I did come up one way that could have stopped it's self, If the antifreeze came from the cap of the overflow tank (which is right there by the belts), why would it do this .. maybe an coolant passage in the block was froze and the system built up too much pressure before it thawed ... maybe im reaching here.

If the car runs fine once its warmed up then its probably a spark or fuel problem. If it misses thru the day then it could be signs of a fuel pump getting ready to go bad, but I wouldn't jump to that conclusion, i'd have the fuel pressure checked first. Did you put it in a garage to change the filter? Then set it back outside for the night? If you did then it would lead me to believe your having fuel freeze up issues, try some dry gas and see it that eliminates your problem.

I don't mean to keep harping on the injectors, but if you had some problem with the fuel and it got beyond the fuel filter it could be lodged in the injectors. I just want to be sure that you have all of the factors covered.
I so agree with everything that has been posted thus far.

Good luck.

Crappy gas will cause problems whether its cold or hot out side. But, water will freeze in you injectors and cause more problems when its reall freaking cold.
Also your Throtle body may be frosting up in the extreme colds as well , making it want to die(untill you giv it gas).

during temps below 0, and the combo of water in the fuel, can cause it to flood the cylinders with fuel, becaue the froozen piece in the injectors makes it stay open dumping to much fuel.

As I had said before a set of new plugs and wires would do you good. Unless they are like new already, anyways.
Hope this helps you out!

It certainly did help me out.

My car has ran good since this morning, although it looks like i need a new battery :(.

Here is how it went today after get gas I drove it at lunch (took it home turned it off then drove it back to work). After work I drove it home.

I then went to my other job for about 4.5 hours and its about -15 to -20 (not that cold but not warm) out. I had the car plugged in, I tried to start it, (had to boost it cause the battery is dead) but it started awesome.

So now its in the garage with a battery charger on it but it is not plugged in. Should be interesting to see tommorow mornings starting results.

I'll let you know. I will be changing the plugs tommorow, or on the weekend. How much trouble are the back 3 going to cause me? What about seizing? Will they be seized or stuck.

Also if its not all better should I buy my own OBD II scanner? Never used one but am good with computers. Will it work seems like its worth it to buy one for 80 online instead of paying 50 everytime.

So she really struggled to start this morning... sigh..

I have to give it gas to start it, once i get it started it will run for a bit and then stall out. It continues to run like this until for about a 1/2 hour then it runs good (once it is warmed up).

I am going to try and change the plugs and wires tonight. The front three will be easy, the back three I am not sure about.

Any other tips based on my consistent COLD starting problems (only stuggles like this when the car is cold).

Have you made sure your air filter isn't wet and freezing up overnight, making the engine fight for air and you have to hold the thoratle open? Try Plugs and wires first.

If you've gotten a Check Engine light by all means take it somewhere and get it scanned, that should help narrow things down & its cheaper then throwing parts at it.

Funny you shoud say that. I hadn't checked the air filter until a couple of hours ago. It is very dirty. So tonight I am going to do the plugs and wires and change the air filter (all good things to do regardless).

Then if it doesn't work I will take it to get scanned.

I will keep you posted and keep bouncing questions off of you.

Okay, so I succesfully changed the plugs and wires yesterday WOOHOO, and I changed the air filter.

WHen I tried to start the car this morning, I had the same problems. Once it is running, it runs great.

Let me decribe the problem with a little more detail. When I try and start the car in the morning (when its cold) I have to give it some gas or it won't start. FInally it will begin running and run gfor 5 -10 minutes than stall out. Then I can start it again easily but it will only run for say 30 second to a minute and then it will stall out again. When it stalls out it it usuially revs cuts out revs cuts out and then stalls. It is like it is trying to keep running but it stalls out. Once the car finally warms up it runs excellent.

What now?

I will get the car scanned this weekend. Any Ideas?

Get your codes scanned and start there. If no codes come up get your fuel pressure tested, or you could test for spark when your car is cold.

There should be a fuel pressure regulator at the end of one of the fuel rails, after you've ran the motor pull the vacume line off of that and see if you get any gas out of it (if it leaks stop the leak imediatly so you don't catch your car on fire), that could be the problem, but im not sure that a bad one will always leak. Has your car been getting bad gas mileage lately?

Again it could be many things from dirty injectors, to a bad mass airflow sensor, to an idle position motor, to the fuel pressure regulator being bad,
or a crack in one of the coilpacks (when it drys out the car runs fine).

Sorry man I don't have the magic "easy" button for this problem.

Maybe you hav more than just bad gas in the tank...

Pull the IAC out of the throtle body and see how its lookin.

If its full of thick black carbon, get some TB cleaner and clean the opening out good and let dry. Dont turn the end of the piece that comes out(the pental), it'll thow it outa wack!
I bet its full of carbon inside there and your intake .

Evn your EGR valve could be pluged or just not working :(
Also make double sure that thier isnt any Vacum lines disconnected or leaking.

And as gmack221 said, Thier is No Easy Button!

I think there is an easy button I just can't find it. Just joking guys.

I really appreciate the help. I am learning a lot about cars... changed my first fuel filter annd my first set of spark plugs.

I will get the car scanned tommorow.

If the check engine light goes out are the codes still stored?

yes the codes should be still stored, but that doesnt always mean they will.

Cool well if not they will be there tommorow morning. :)

I am going to go buy a scanner. 39.99 cause its not OBD11 as its a 1995.

some 95s are ODB I and some are ODB II