ethonol 85?

anybody hear anything on this corn ethonol that chevy is starting (well has had for a few months now) to push? that think green go yellow or what ever it is. good idea to be capitalized on or no?

So far I like it...it's cheaper than gasoline but you get worse mileage but it's cheap enough that you come out ahead.

^it's not cheap enough yet. it currently costs as much as gasoline and you have to refill more often cuz it burns faster. however you do get more power from it since it's a higher octane. as there becomes more of a market for for e85 the price will come down.

check out either www.livegreengoyellow.com or www.e85fuel.com

Is this ethanol85 more available than gasoline or fossil fuel?

Here in the midwest it is quite a bit cheaper to buy E85. If you can run it that is. I think it is a good thing because it is made from corn which is a renewable fuel. I don't know what the octane is, but higher octane doesn't give you more power. Basically, the higher the octane, the less likely you are to have a knock(so don't waste money on the high priced fuel, 87 octane is all you need). High compression engines need to have high octane to prevent detonation. The truth is that ethanol produces less energy than gasoline so that is where the crappy fuel mileage comes from.

sooo this is kinda like the switch from leaded to unleaded back in the early 70's? i mean its gas, but different.

Biodiesel and alcohol is where its at. That and you can run alcohol at like 3:1 a/f ratio and get some power iirc. Then again, at that rate, you'll be getting a whole 3 miles to a gallon. i think stoich for alcohol is 6:1

Here in the midwest it is quite a bit cheaper to buy E85. If you can run it that is. I think it is a good thing because it is made from corn which is a renewable fuel. I don't know what the octane is, but higher octane doesn't give you more power. Basically, the higher the octane, the less likely you are to have a knock(so don't waste money on the high priced fuel, 87 octane is all you need). High compression engines need to have high octane to prevent detonation. The truth is that ethanol produces less energy than gasoline so that is where the crappy fuel mileage comes from.
This is quoted from GM's Live Green Go Yellow web page in the FAQ section.
"using E85 ethanol can help improve your vehicles performance, how? E85 ethanol has a higher octane rating than gasoline, which allows for more hp and torque."

This is quoted from GM's Live Green Go Yellow web page in the FAQ section.
"using E85 ethanol can help improve your vehicles performance, how? E85 ethanol has a higher octane rating than gasoline, which allows for more hp and torque."


thats not really right, just stupid marketing. Octane alone does not make HP. If you put 108 Octane Race gas in your car that requires 87 octane, nothing special is gonna happen. You wont see anymore HP. The HP increase comes from the increased compression that is allowed because of the higher octane. The more you compress the air/fuel mixture the more powerful the combustion is. Race cars compress the airfuel ratio so much that it turns into a near solid state.

thats not really right, just stupid marketing. Octane alone does not make HP. If you put 108 Octane Race gas in your car that requires 87 octane, nothing special is gonna happen. You wont see anymore HP. The HP increase comes from the increased compression that is allowed because of the higher octane. The more you compress the air/fuel mixture the more powerful the combustion is. Race cars compress the airfuel ratio so much that it turns into a near solid state.
damn, of all people to make a mistake like that you'd figure GM would know better. regardless the real benefits are that it helps diminish our dependence on foreign oil suppliers, it burns cleaner and it helps support our agriclture industry.

E-85 has been consistently cheaper than gas at the stations around here (usually about 10 cents cheaper per gallon). E-85 has also been around for pretty long time, it's definately not new.

Biodiesel and alcohol is where its at. That and you can run alcohol at like 3:1 a/f ratio and get some power iirc. Then again, at that rate, you'll be getting a whole 3 miles to a gallon. i think stoich for alcohol is 6:1
Yeah, but alcohol in certain quantities (ie. at Sunoco with their ethanol as an additive) makes my Subaru knock... NOT cool. :(

http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=284068

We were just discussing this, as it relates to boosted cars, on another forum. Some good points and links if you are interested.

I think its a good idea. i also think that it will eventually be used in every car.

This is quoted from GM's Live Green Go Yellow web page in the FAQ section.
"using E85 ethanol can help improve your vehicles performance, how? E85 ethanol has a higher octane rating than gasoline, which allows for more hp and torque."
A higher octane rating means the fuel burns slower. 93 fuel burns slower and more controlled than 87. But because the 87 burns more fierce and faster, it's a stronger explosion inside th engine resulting in more power. The higher octane you go, without upping compression, the lower your hp/tq gets.

That's piss poor advertising on GM's part.

^ no, the higher the octane level, the easier it is for the engine to combust it, resulting in a smoother, more efficient engine.

I think its a good idea. i also think that it will eventually be used in every car.

will all motors be able to handle the change though. i have a feeling this will be like leaded to unleaded. we will start to have problems and will have to modify to adjust to the different fuel. ( ild also like to see how the rotery engines are taking it, im sure that those motors might prop up different quirks compared to our standard motor)

yeah, the rotary engines. I wonder about that myself.

^it's not cheap enough yet. it currently costs as much as gasoline and you have to refill more often cuz it burns faster. however you do get more power from it since it's a higher octane. as there becomes more of a market for for e85 the price will come down.

check out either www.livegreengoyellow.com or www.e85fuel.com

This being an automotive forum, it is naturally assumed that all members understand the concept of octane ratings.


higher octane does not equal more power.

This being an automotive forum, it is naturally assumed that all members understand the concept of octane ratings.


higher octane does not equal more power.


I think we have established that.

Also, how many rotary engines are still in production? I know Mazda still uses one, but who else?

Why wouldn't it work in a rotary engine? What are you all on crack or something? You change the air to fuel ratio so it burns like it's supposed to, increase compression and advance timing. It's not impossible for engineers to do that for a rotary.

From what I've heard the rotary is probably the easiest engine to run on ethonal or even hydrogen. I think because the design is much simpler over a normal engine is why but don't quote me on that.

I would love to see more rotary engines make it into other cars.

i think stoich for alcohol is 6:1


Don't say the 'S' word! :uhoh: I'm having Chemistry flashbacks!
But to answer your question, the only problem is the lack of compatible cars on the market. I want my car to run on E-85 like crazy.

^ no, the higher the octane level, the easier it is for the engine to combust it, resulting in a smoother, more efficient engine.


NO

This being an automotive forum, it is naturally assumed that all members understand the concept of octane ratings.


higher octane does not equal more power.


:werd:

i not saying it wouldnt work in rotory motors, but with the differences in design would it have a different quirk then traditional ICE's (internal combu...you get the picture.)

i wish i knew more about rotory motors though, i think they have potential but, i mean we are still in the process of maximizing our ICE i mean from head design to porting to cams, whole nine yards there are different things that we are coming out with. i want to learn more about the rotory, anyone know a good place to look?

but back on topic.... because E-85 has the well, the 85 marker, does that mean that it's like the difference between 87 and (whats the next one?) 89.< in its ability to combust that is. or its stability.

What are you all on crack or something?


yes...yes we are

I have never seen anywhere that sells this fuel....anyone know of anywhere in CA?

but back on topic.... because E-85 has the well, the 85 marker, does that mean that it's like the difference between 87 and (whats the next one?) 89.< in its ability to combust that is. or its stability.


The 85 means that it is 85% ethanol. Like super unleaded is E10=10% ethanol.

On the subject of rotary engines, I think they would be great in motorcycles because of the light weight and the ability to push some very high rpms because of very little rotating inertia and their small size. And there is no pumping loss since there is a power stroke three times in one revolution of the rotor. There downfall is longevity. We expect todays vehicles to reach 200,000 miles before rebuilds. I have heard rotary engines only last around 80,000 and they really can't be rebuilt, just replaced.
www.howstuffworks.com

The 85 means that it is 85% ethanol. Like super unleaded is E10=10% ethanol.

On the subject of rotary engines, I think they would be great in motorcycles because of the light weight and the ability to push some very high rpms because of very little rotating inertia and their small size...

suzuki made a rotary motorcycle for a few years.
http://www.rotaryrecycle.net/re5originalrelease.asp

ok today is the 26th of feb i checked out gas as i was going by walmart:

2.27(9) 87 unleaded
2.14(9) e 85

if gas prices sink any, e 85 is goin below 2.00

and not to be the bearer of bad news but does anyone remember that less then a decade ago we were paying less then a dollar for gas? not to mention if you have seen con air and you see the gas prices(in the show)... you will break into tears.

I haven't seen anyone offer ethanol 85 yet, so I'm stuck w/ regular gas. Even if it was offered here, I doubt I'd ever use it or switch to it.

ok today is the 26th of feb i checked out gas as i was going by walmart:

2.27(9) 87 unleaded
2.14(9) e 85

if gas prices sink any, e 85 is goin below 2.00

and not to be the bearer of bad news but does anyone remember that less then a decade ago we were paying less then a dollar for gas? not to mention if you have seen con air and you see the gas prices(in the show)... you will break into tears.


Yeah, I was out today and E10 that I use was 2.29 and regular was 2.30 something. Putting 20+ gallons of that in is enough to make me break into tears. Since a week ago it was 2.12.

i wonder, can every car run on e 85, i was thinking about puting some in my escort but i didnt want to screw anything up.

suzuki made a rotary motorcycle for a few years.
http://www.rotaryrecycle.net/re5originalrelease.asp

Thats pretty cool but seems like relatively low rpms. Max hp was at 6500 and torque was at 3500. Not too impressive considering your ninja can probably push 2x that. My instructor was saying that the engines in rx-8s can easily handle well over 10,000 rpms.

2.12? I'll be happy.. It's 2.99 (91 oct) 2.85 (87 oct) over here, and probably gonna rise again :(

for the first time in a long time i saw 1.98 for 91 octane, i think it was in ohio, as i was moving up here.