Indepedant car Manufactors.
Moppie
06-26-2002, 01:47 AM
Who are they? Because there are not many left in the world.
I can only think of:
GM.
Ford. (although both now own and controll and badge enginer so many other manufactors I dont know if they really count)
BMW
Honda (the ONLY Japanese one)
The New Rover
and an Indian company, I think called "Pricess".
can anyone think of others to add?
I can only think of:
GM.
Ford. (although both now own and controll and badge enginer so many other manufactors I dont know if they really count)
BMW
Honda (the ONLY Japanese one)
The New Rover
and an Indian company, I think called "Pricess".
can anyone think of others to add?
hermunn123
06-26-2002, 02:10 AM
Daimler-Chrysler?
isn't Toyota independant?
Volkswagen?
Porsche?
De Tomaso?
TVR?
Caterham?
Westfield?
Morgan?
isn't Toyota independant?
Volkswagen?
Porsche?
De Tomaso?
TVR?
Caterham?
Westfield?
Morgan?
Moppie
06-26-2002, 02:24 AM
Originally posted by hermunn123
Daimler-Chrysler? Is a merger of two companies.
isn't Toyota independant? about a 30% share is owned by GM.
Volkswagen? Part of VAG (VW Audi Group)
Porsche? Part of VW
De Tomaso? Owned by GM
TVR? I think, and the reason I didnt list it, they are part owned by Ford
Caterham?
Westfield?
Morgan?
The last 3 are good ones though! altough I didn't bother listing them, as they are mostly glorified kit car makers.
I should have noted, that by independant i ment that merged companies like VAG and DaimlerChrysler dont count. :)
and is Panoz independant?
Daimler-Chrysler? Is a merger of two companies.
isn't Toyota independant? about a 30% share is owned by GM.
Volkswagen? Part of VAG (VW Audi Group)
Porsche? Part of VW
De Tomaso? Owned by GM
TVR? I think, and the reason I didnt list it, they are part owned by Ford
Caterham?
Westfield?
Morgan?
The last 3 are good ones though! altough I didn't bother listing them, as they are mostly glorified kit car makers.
I should have noted, that by independant i ment that merged companies like VAG and DaimlerChrysler dont count. :)
and is Panoz independant?
hermunn123
06-26-2002, 11:57 AM
i do believe Panoz is independant.
Fliquer
06-26-2002, 03:18 PM
Porsche is owned by Volkswagen
And I THINK Panoz is owned by Ford.
And I THINK Panoz is owned by Ford.
Ssom
06-28-2002, 02:38 AM
hmmmmmm............Well Honda is independent of course, GM and Ford have do OWN a lot of companies, but that sorta kill's the independence So I would list them as off that one.
the new Rover, TVR and I am pretty sure Porsche are also independent.
Because last time I checked the VAG consisted of VW, Lamborghini, Cosworth, Audi, Skoda, SEAT, Bentley and Bugatti, no Porsche, although there were some ties between teh two a couple of decades ago
The FIAT Group is FIAT, Ferrai, Lancia and Alfa Romeo
Ford has Volvo, Land Rover, Mazda, Lincoln, Aston Martin, Jaguar and Mercury
Daimler Chrysler has Mercedes Benz, Chrysler, Dodge, Mitsubishi, Jeep and MCC
GM has Chevrolet, Opel, Vauxhall, Saab, Holden, Suzuki, Caddilac, Subaru, GMC, Saturn and Daewoo
BMW is NOT independent as it has Rolls Royce
Toyota has Daihatsu and Lexus
Nissan and Renault are partners, as are Peugeot and Citroen and Hyundai owns Kia
so I guess it stands at Honda, Rover/MG, TVR and the questionable inclusion of Porsche
the new Rover, TVR and I am pretty sure Porsche are also independent.
Because last time I checked the VAG consisted of VW, Lamborghini, Cosworth, Audi, Skoda, SEAT, Bentley and Bugatti, no Porsche, although there were some ties between teh two a couple of decades ago
The FIAT Group is FIAT, Ferrai, Lancia and Alfa Romeo
Ford has Volvo, Land Rover, Mazda, Lincoln, Aston Martin, Jaguar and Mercury
Daimler Chrysler has Mercedes Benz, Chrysler, Dodge, Mitsubishi, Jeep and MCC
GM has Chevrolet, Opel, Vauxhall, Saab, Holden, Suzuki, Caddilac, Subaru, GMC, Saturn and Daewoo
BMW is NOT independent as it has Rolls Royce
Toyota has Daihatsu and Lexus
Nissan and Renault are partners, as are Peugeot and Citroen and Hyundai owns Kia
so I guess it stands at Honda, Rover/MG, TVR and the questionable inclusion of Porsche
Moppie
06-28-2002, 03:13 AM
BMW is independant.
They just happen to own the rights to the rolls name.
That makes Roll no longer independant.
I was refering to Ford and GM not being truely independant because of excessive amount of badge enginering they do.
Im quite sure Porshe is part of VAG, and has been for a long time.
The Cheyane and new VW useing the same platform are the obvious give away.
But im sure the current CEO of VAG used to be in charge of Porshe and was promoted.
Prehaps Porshe is only half owned by VAG. in the same way Toyota is only part owned by GM.
They just happen to own the rights to the rolls name.
That makes Roll no longer independant.
I was refering to Ford and GM not being truely independant because of excessive amount of badge enginering they do.
Im quite sure Porshe is part of VAG, and has been for a long time.
The Cheyane and new VW useing the same platform are the obvious give away.
But im sure the current CEO of VAG used to be in charge of Porshe and was promoted.
Prehaps Porshe is only half owned by VAG. in the same way Toyota is only part owned by GM.
Tom_S8
06-28-2002, 03:53 AM
Porsche isn't independant and it's been like that for a long time... There were cars like VW-porsche (yes the name was like that) 914 in the 1970s... They were also colaborating with audi and it gave results with cars as RS2 etc. IT's a part of the VAG group...
Porsche
06-28-2002, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by hermunn123
i do believe Panoz is independant.
Yep, ford just supplies the V-8's for the Esperante and AIV roadster.
Koenigsegg, they don't produce a whole lot, but they do have the CC and are inpendant and like Panoz, are supplied with engines.
Weinmann (sp) Produces the W Roadster, (In Bimmer mag) using the new M3 engine. They are independant I think.
Are we talking like major names or small ones? I could name like 50 more little ones with production <100 units per year.
i do believe Panoz is independant.
Yep, ford just supplies the V-8's for the Esperante and AIV roadster.
Koenigsegg, they don't produce a whole lot, but they do have the CC and are inpendant and like Panoz, are supplied with engines.
Weinmann (sp) Produces the W Roadster, (In Bimmer mag) using the new M3 engine. They are independant I think.
Are we talking like major names or small ones? I could name like 50 more little ones with production <100 units per year.
Moppie
06-28-2002, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by Porsche
Are we talking like major names or small ones? I could name like 50 more little ones with production <100 units per year.
To avoid us just listing what could be unending list of low volume manufactors, prehaps a few conditions need to be set.
How about, must produce over 300units per year.
And must be an exporter.
Are we talking like major names or small ones? I could name like 50 more little ones with production <100 units per year.
To avoid us just listing what could be unending list of low volume manufactors, prehaps a few conditions need to be set.
How about, must produce over 300units per year.
And must be an exporter.
Ssom
06-29-2002, 12:12 AM
Originally posted by Moppie
How about, must produce over 300units per year.
And must be an exporter.
Then that adds Caterham, Morgan and Qvale (Unless they are owned by Ford) and Westfield.
Here is another one- The Malaysian company Perodua who make the Kenari (A Daihatsu Move built under lisence) and NIppa (A Daihatsu Mira done the same)
How about, must produce over 300units per year.
And must be an exporter.
Then that adds Caterham, Morgan and Qvale (Unless they are owned by Ford) and Westfield.
Here is another one- The Malaysian company Perodua who make the Kenari (A Daihatsu Move built under lisence) and NIppa (A Daihatsu Mira done the same)
Moppie
06-30-2002, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by Moss1O6GTi
Here is another one- The Malaysian company Perodua who make the Kenari (A Daihatsu Move built under lisence) and NIppa (A Daihatsu Mira done the same)
Ahh, very good!
And so what about Proton? who builds old model Mitsi under license. (including all the EVO models)
Here is another one- The Malaysian company Perodua who make the Kenari (A Daihatsu Move built under lisence) and NIppa (A Daihatsu Mira done the same)
Ahh, very good!
And so what about Proton? who builds old model Mitsi under license. (including all the EVO models)
Ssom
07-01-2002, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by Moppie
Ahh, very good!
And so what about Proton? who builds old model Mitsi under license. (including all the EVO models)
Well perhaps even if they do own Lotus, there is OBVIOUSLY no sign of platform sharing between the two, only suspensions of the Impian and Satria GTi have any evidence of Lotus components
And the make Evo's under license as well :huh:
Ahh, very good!
And so what about Proton? who builds old model Mitsi under license. (including all the EVO models)
Well perhaps even if they do own Lotus, there is OBVIOUSLY no sign of platform sharing between the two, only suspensions of the Impian and Satria GTi have any evidence of Lotus components
And the make Evo's under license as well :huh:
Jay!
07-01-2002, 06:46 PM
Just throwing out there: Saleen and Maseratti.
Explain to me the criteria underwhich Honda qualifies, but Toyota doesn't. I know Toyota is part of a Keiretsu, but no other arms are in the auto manufacturing business (are they?). I know they are related to many of their suppliers. Lexus and Scion are subordinates, like Acura is to Honda.
In a similar vein, Subaru is part of the Fuji group (not GM), but they're the only auto-industry arm...
Explain to me the criteria underwhich Honda qualifies, but Toyota doesn't. I know Toyota is part of a Keiretsu, but no other arms are in the auto manufacturing business (are they?). I know they are related to many of their suppliers. Lexus and Scion are subordinates, like Acura is to Honda.
In a similar vein, Subaru is part of the Fuji group (not GM), but they're the only auto-industry arm...
Moppie
07-02-2002, 01:46 AM
Maseratti is owned 100% by Ferrari, and therefore Fiat. :)
Toyota is about 20-30% owned by GM. And, as you mentioned they are part of much larger company.
Just like Subaru is part of a much large company. Basicly, both of them have the huge recources of thier parent company to draw upon.
Honda however is just Honda. There is no large parent company, or for that matter smaller companys underneath.
In that sense they are totaly independant, and have no one else to fall back on.
BMW is in the same position, as are the other companys we have listed.
Acura and Lexus are no longer seperate companys, they are merly brand names used to help with Marketing in the rather ethnocentric US market.
I believe its important to point out the independant manufactors, as in my mind it some how makes them better than the others.
It shows they produce both an excellent product, and are able to practice excellent bussiness.
Toyota is about 20-30% owned by GM. And, as you mentioned they are part of much larger company.
Just like Subaru is part of a much large company. Basicly, both of them have the huge recources of thier parent company to draw upon.
Honda however is just Honda. There is no large parent company, or for that matter smaller companys underneath.
In that sense they are totaly independant, and have no one else to fall back on.
BMW is in the same position, as are the other companys we have listed.
Acura and Lexus are no longer seperate companys, they are merly brand names used to help with Marketing in the rather ethnocentric US market.
I believe its important to point out the independant manufactors, as in my mind it some how makes them better than the others.
It shows they produce both an excellent product, and are able to practice excellent bussiness.
ales
07-02-2002, 08:55 AM
Lada and other Russian manufacturers are independent :D
Just my 0.02
Just my 0.02
Moppie
07-02-2002, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by ales
Lada
Sadly not anymore. GM baught a 50% share last year. :)
Lada
Sadly not anymore. GM baught a 50% share last year. :)
ales
07-03-2002, 12:30 AM
Originally posted by Moppie
Sadly not anymore. GM baught a 50% share last year. :)
IIRC, the deal didn't go through. But I might be wrong. Will do my homework later :D
Sadly not anymore. GM baught a 50% share last year. :)
IIRC, the deal didn't go through. But I might be wrong. Will do my homework later :D
Porsche
07-05-2002, 12:06 AM
Originally posted by Moppie
Sadly not anymore. GM baught a 50% share last year. :)
Why?
Sadly not anymore. GM baught a 50% share last year. :)
Why?
Moppie
07-05-2002, 12:10 AM
So they could use the plant and the workers to build chevys in Russia.
Thats why. :D
yes you won the cold war blah blah blah.........
But as ales said its possible the deal didnt go through.
But Im sure it did, as Ford was also trying to buy them out, and Im sure GM would never let Ford get away with it.
Thats why. :D
yes you won the cold war blah blah blah.........
But as ales said its possible the deal didnt go through.
But Im sure it did, as Ford was also trying to buy them out, and Im sure GM would never let Ford get away with it.
Holden__V8
07-06-2002, 06:52 AM
Just throwing this one up in the air, i wouldn't have a clue if someone owns it. A small compact 4WD going by the name of TATA. Thinking it could be Indian. Have also seen light commercial utes.:confused:
Ssom
07-07-2002, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by Holden__V8
Just throwing this one up in the air, i wouldn't have a clue if someone owns it. A small compact 4WD going by the name of TATA. Thinking it could be Indian. Have also seen light commercial utes.:confused:
BINGO!!!! The Tata Safari is the light 4WD and the Telocline is the Ute- they also make a small car called the Indica, that looks disturbingly similar to the new Mitsubishi Mirage/Space Star..........
Just throwing this one up in the air, i wouldn't have a clue if someone owns it. A small compact 4WD going by the name of TATA. Thinking it could be Indian. Have also seen light commercial utes.:confused:
BINGO!!!! The Tata Safari is the light 4WD and the Telocline is the Ute- they also make a small car called the Indica, that looks disturbingly similar to the new Mitsubishi Mirage/Space Star..........
Jay!
07-07-2002, 04:38 AM
I was mistaken: Apparently GM does own a 20% stake in Fuji Heavy Industries, parent of Suabru. Sorry. :o
However, I can't find anything about GM/Toyota co-ownership, other than their R&D and production partnerships. Or is that what you were refering to?
However, I can't find anything about GM/Toyota co-ownership, other than their R&D and production partnerships. Or is that what you were refering to?
|Banchi1O5|
07-07-2002, 03:35 PM
Bristol
is the only british manufacture that is still independent i believe
is the only british manufacture that is still independent i believe
Moppie
07-07-2002, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by |Banchi1O5|
Bristol
Except that Bristol no longer make cars. :D
They sold Bently and Rolls to VW and BMW.
Bristol
Except that Bristol no longer make cars. :D
They sold Bently and Rolls to VW and BMW.
|Banchi1O5|
07-08-2002, 09:31 AM
Actually they have just started producing the
Bristol Blenheim 3S
A $220,000(usd) V-8 car
Bristol Blenheim 3S
A $220,000(usd) V-8 car
Ssom
07-08-2002, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by |Banchi1O5|
Actually they have just started producing the
Bristol Blenheim 3S
A $220,000(usd) V-8 car
I am sure the Bristol Blenhiem 3 is still in production..........It uses a Chrysler V8 (A little bit of useless info there)
Actually they have just started producing the
Bristol Blenheim 3S
A $220,000(usd) V-8 car
I am sure the Bristol Blenhiem 3 is still in production..........It uses a Chrysler V8 (A little bit of useless info there)
Jay!
07-10-2002, 06:20 PM
I still contend that Toyota qualifies. Fortune lists Toyota Motor as 10th on its Global 500 list; the 4th car maker after GM, Ford and DaimlerChrysler. I have been unable to find any evidence of any other company's stake in Toyota.
Moppie
07-11-2002, 01:40 AM
Well acording to yesterdays issue of the NZ herald (10/7/02) GM has a 20% share in Fiat, so we can right them off the list. :(
And im sure Toyota isnt independant.......... :confused:
And im sure Toyota isnt independant.......... :confused:
flylwsi
07-13-2002, 01:30 PM
i believe the same, according to www.overboost.com's note about honda in their news section, where they note that toyota and honda are the last two independent companies... in japan...
bluetwo
07-15-2002, 03:07 PM
i agree with jay@af... toyota is independent. track the history, there is only mention of their collaboration with GM in the formation of the NUMMI facility in order to get a foothold in the US market in the early 80's. Check the recent stories on the financial times. look at the company profile on www.hoovers.com
toyota has remained staunchly independent. a quote from the financial times (12/11/2001):
"In spite of that growth, Toyota remains innately conservative, whether it is managing its $20bn cash reserves or its people.
Japan's largest carmaker has not acquired a rival or considered a takeover of any other group since its tie-up with Daihatsu in 1967. It has never sent a woman executive overseas from Japan. There are no foreign managers among its vice-presidents in Tokyo. "
fyi, toyota is #28 on the Financial Times Global 500 (by mkt value) as of 5/2002 and #25 on the Fortune Global Most Admired Companies, ahead of Honda, BMW, et al (the first auto manufacturer and overall top Japanese company).
toyota has remained staunchly independent. a quote from the financial times (12/11/2001):
"In spite of that growth, Toyota remains innately conservative, whether it is managing its $20bn cash reserves or its people.
Japan's largest carmaker has not acquired a rival or considered a takeover of any other group since its tie-up with Daihatsu in 1967. It has never sent a woman executive overseas from Japan. There are no foreign managers among its vice-presidents in Tokyo. "
fyi, toyota is #28 on the Financial Times Global 500 (by mkt value) as of 5/2002 and #25 on the Fortune Global Most Admired Companies, ahead of Honda, BMW, et al (the first auto manufacturer and overall top Japanese company).
Moppie
07-16-2002, 12:19 AM
Alright, thats pretty convincing.
So we can add Toyota to the list. :D
But that then means that the Japanese led the world in the number of independant MASS production car manufactors. :eek: They really are a car crazy nation. (and have legisation the ecourages it)
(if we discount Ford and GM for the reasons stated before)
So we can add Toyota to the list. :D
But that then means that the Japanese led the world in the number of independant MASS production car manufactors. :eek: They really are a car crazy nation. (and have legisation the ecourages it)
(if we discount Ford and GM for the reasons stated before)
Stefanel1
07-21-2002, 05:59 PM
Today, the big groups which will certainly be there today are :
VAG (Audi VW, etc.)
PSA (Peugeot-Citroën)
GM (Holden, Cadillac, etc.)
Ford (and brands)
Mercedes (DaimlerChrysler)
Toyota
Renault (+ Nissan)
Fiat Auto spa (Alfa, Lancia, Maserati, etc.) which I hope will remain independant
BMW, Porsche and Rover will probably make links with other car makers, we'll see.
.... and Lada ;)
VAG (Audi VW, etc.)
PSA (Peugeot-Citroën)
GM (Holden, Cadillac, etc.)
Ford (and brands)
Mercedes (DaimlerChrysler)
Toyota
Renault (+ Nissan)
Fiat Auto spa (Alfa, Lancia, Maserati, etc.) which I hope will remain independant
BMW, Porsche and Rover will probably make links with other car makers, we'll see.
.... and Lada ;)
|Banchi1O5|
07-21-2002, 11:43 PM
so whats the current list so far of independents?
Wieger
01-05-2005, 04:51 PM
GM
brands
Chevrolet, Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Saturn, Cadillac, Corvette, Holden, Saab, Vauxhall, Opel, Daewoo, Subaru, Suzuki, Isuzu, Lada, GMC, Hummer
Ford
brands
Ford, Mercury, Lincoln, Mazda, Aston Martin, Jaguar, Land Rover, Volvo
Toyota
brands
Toyota, Scion, Lexus, Daihatsu
VAG
brands
Volkswagen, Audi, Skoda, Seat, Bentley, Lamborghini, Bugatti
Renault
brands
Renault, Dacia, Nissan, Infinity, Samsung
Daimler-Chrysler
brands
Mercedes, Smart, Maybach, Mclaren, Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Mitshubishi
PSA
brands
Peugeot, Citroen
Honda
brands
Honda, Acura
Hyundai
brands
Hyundai, Kia
Fiat
brands
Fiat, Lancia, Alfa Romeo, Maserati, Ferrari
Bmw
brands
Bmw, Mini, Rolls-Royce
Petronas
brands
Proton, Lotus
Salic
brands
Sanghou, Rover, Mg
Porsche
brands
Porsche
Smolenski
Brands
TVR
Briliancar
Brands
Zhonghou
brands
Chevrolet, Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Saturn, Cadillac, Corvette, Holden, Saab, Vauxhall, Opel, Daewoo, Subaru, Suzuki, Isuzu, Lada, GMC, Hummer
Ford
brands
Ford, Mercury, Lincoln, Mazda, Aston Martin, Jaguar, Land Rover, Volvo
Toyota
brands
Toyota, Scion, Lexus, Daihatsu
VAG
brands
Volkswagen, Audi, Skoda, Seat, Bentley, Lamborghini, Bugatti
Renault
brands
Renault, Dacia, Nissan, Infinity, Samsung
Daimler-Chrysler
brands
Mercedes, Smart, Maybach, Mclaren, Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Mitshubishi
PSA
brands
Peugeot, Citroen
Honda
brands
Honda, Acura
Hyundai
brands
Hyundai, Kia
Fiat
brands
Fiat, Lancia, Alfa Romeo, Maserati, Ferrari
Bmw
brands
Bmw, Mini, Rolls-Royce
Petronas
brands
Proton, Lotus
Salic
brands
Sanghou, Rover, Mg
Porsche
brands
Porsche
Smolenski
Brands
TVR
Briliancar
Brands
Zhonghou
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