SI vs TSI

my friend is gunna race this kid who things his a bad ass with 1995 talon tsi, my friend has a civic si, both cars a completely stock, the talon is and auto, so if my friend hit his shits, do u think he could be the talon tsi? how close would this race be?

You are talking about a Civic Si that has FWD and around 160HP and sub 120 ft/lbs of torque vs. a Talon TSi that is AWD and has around 200HP and 200 ft/lbs of torque. Don't count on your friend winning, that is all I am going to say.

Yup, polygons right. A Tsi will kill a civic any day. Doesn't matter how good a shifter your firend is, he's gonna lose.

Originally posted by Polygon
You are talking about a Civic Si that has FWD and around 160HP and sub 120 ft/lbs of torque vs. a Talon TSi that is AWD and has around 200HP and 200 ft/lbs of torque. Don't count on your friend winning, that is all I am going to say.


that TSI will murder u're friends Civic,, unless the kid in the TSI can't drive for $hit.. but all he has to do is floor it! and steer the wheel.. let me know the outcome.. which i think i could say safely that the TSI has it locked.. let me know anyway.

hey, i just got back, and the tsi won, not by that much, my friend was sorta keeping up with him, he only lost by about one car length if that.

i think his talon was only front wheel drive, i dont think it was awd

Originally posted by KiCFlip5
i think his talon was only front wheel drive, i dont think it was awd

If that were the case then his Talon isn't a TSi.

Talon TSI's came in awd and fwd drive versions.

i thought they did, cuz he told me his was fwd, and it says TSI indented in the back bumper.

this is kicflip5, im on my friends name.

That is interesting, I thought there was a different designation for the FWD turbo Talons like with the Eclpise. The GSX was the AWD turbo and the GS-T was the FWD turbo. I guess you learn something new everyday.

Originally posted by Polygon
That is interesting, I thought there was a different designation for the FWD turbo Talons like with the Eclpise. The GSX was the AWD turbo and the GS-T was the FWD turbo. I guess you learn something new everyday.

Yea, I think they're right...I think the TSi came in both a FWD and AWD version...I'm sure there is some other way to tell the two apart though, maybe not badging, but possibly something just as obvious.

The Talon TSI is FWD turbo the Talon TSI AWD is AWD turbo, "T" stands for "turbo". The non-turbo models are ES and ESI i believe, a TSI auto should run a mid to low 15 second 1/4 where an SI should run a mid to high 15. Not exactly an ass spanking but the TSI should (and did) win.

I think every Honda owner should test drive a DSM. Just so they know.

I have driven a DSM, it was amazing. That's why (if you read my signature) I am swaping in a larger DOHC motor with a T3/T4 turbo. I feel that I could make a substantial amount of power especially for a car as light as mine. DSM's are the shit, my friends Eclipse GST makes 291hp to the wheels and it scoots.

you have to remember the power to weight also. I am sure that played a big factor

DSMs are quite nice...they pull like no other for what they are...the only problem with them and the reason I'm looking for a GSR instead of a GS-T is reliability.

I have two friends with GS-T's one is modded to about 300hp the other is stock...and they are both in the shop frequently so u cant blame it on mod install

My friend in high school bought a 93? GS-X with manual transmission, but didn't know how to drive stick. Me being the friend that I am, I offered to teach him how (on his car:bigthumb: ) I told him that I needed to drive the car some before I could teach him so I could "get the feel" of the car and clutch before I could properly teach him.:naughty:

That thing was sweet :boink:

Sometimes I wish my Accord had AWD. Especially when I get loose in the rain.



Actually teaching him was a bitch though.

turning off my traction control in the rain is always fun, only in parking lots though.

i have beaten several GSTs, only one was from a dead dig. the other two were about 60mph highway rolls. it can be done, but dont bet on it.

The TSI has 190hp and about 180-190tq. Too bad a stock Civic Si only puts ~122hp/110tq to the wheels :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Ricochet
The TSI has 190hp and about 180-190tq. Too bad a stock Civic Si only puts ~122hp/110tq to the wheels :rolleyes:

call me a liar. i dont have anything to prove to you. my car isnt bone stock either. i have a few boltons, nothing major, but at least one of the GSTs had bolt ons too. a stock GST runs what 15 flat in the 1/4? ive seen SIs run 14.9 with IHE and a shortshifter. granted, this is one case out of however many, but its very possible.


by the way, ive seen bone stock Si's put down 140 to the ground

I wasn't calling anybody a liar, I was saying that's why the Si lost... just a total lack of power even though it weighs less.

Actually its a total lack of Torque. A stock DSM engine has 195-210hp @6000rpm, 203lb ft.@3000rpm. A stock Si has what 160@7600rpm and 111lb ft@7000rpm. I/E/Boost controller on the 4G63T and its gonna gain 30hp and TQ resulting in a faster spooling turbo and more power throughout the power band. An Si is gonna gain what? 12hp and 5lb ft at the top end. My buddy has a 97GSR w/full E/ Cold air/ short shift, underdrive pulleys/ AFPR. It still has no TQ but gained some top end and that is a 1.8L. Whats the Si run stock? A GSR runs a 15.2 I think, so the Si is at 15.5 or so. And you took 2 FWD GST's on the freeway where it doesn't have to fight for traction, you better have had more than I/E or I doubt they knew you were racing.

IHE and a shortshifter is all i got, and i know when someone is racing me, one of them even got the jump on me cause i heard him downshift, and he was already about half a car in front. the other was my friend jason. all he had was exhaust


and you are absolutely correct about the lack of torque:bloated:

Originally posted by 1320B4U
Actually its a total lack of Torque. A stock DSM engine has 195-210hp @6000rpm, 203lb ft.@3000rpm. A stock Si has what 160@7600rpm and 111lb ft@7000rpm. I/E/Boost controller on the 4G63T and its gonna gain 30hp and TQ resulting in a faster spooling turbo and more power throughout the power band. An Si is gonna gain what? 12hp and 5lb ft at the top end. My buddy has a 97GSR w/full E/ Cold air/ short shift, underdrive pulleys/ AFPR. It still has no TQ but gained some top end and that is a 1.8L. Whats the Si run stock? A GSR runs a 15.2 I think, so the Si is at 15.5 or so. And you took 2 FWD GST's on the freeway where it doesn't have to fight for traction, you better have had more than I/E or I doubt they knew you were racing.

Yes, he had more than I/E, as far as I know.

Also, a modfied Si's only chance on the freeway is when the Eclipse dosn't know it's racing?

I was at Speedworld Motorplex here in Arizona last weekend for their "Street Legal" drag event, with a car show and everything.

There was a 1995 GSX with at least an exhaust and a BOV that ran mid-low 16's ALL NIGHT. I'm talking at least four passes here. Granted, it was really hot and humid that night, but the N/A GS-Rs and Civic Si's were consistent with their mid-low 15's, with some of the FULL-INTERIOR hybrid-hatches running from mid 13's to high 14's.

Not to flame, but assumption is the mother of all f**kups.

I doubt if you've ever raced a serious Honda tuner, the way you sound.

Originally posted by 1320B4U
I think every Honda owner should test drive a DSM. Just so they know.

werd

dont get me wrong though, i've got a friend with a 96 civic hatch with a tricked out b18c5, integra type R engine, full tranny swap and everything, his car runs low to mid 13s, where my car runs mid to high 13s on stock turbo, he can definately take me on the high end, but granted, he spent about 10grand of mods on his car, but with the cost of the car it comes out to be about 16 thousand or so, but still a very nice car,

my point is, if i drop about 2 grand into my car (getting a new turbo and some fuel goodies and some good tuning), im sorry but i would spank the pants off that car, and u guys talk about efficiency, but the only fast hondas i've seen are ones with turbo or a motor swap, how efficient is that?

in that a swapped motor is still efficient, regardless of the car its in?

Yes I know some nice Honda's. A guy down the block has a 93 HB w/H22, GSR dash, clean kit(Mugen?), Championship white paint, cage, Sparcos, stripped, lexan? back windows, dropped, 18's, I/E/H, ect. ect. It's a beast. Took me for a spin. He said it ran a 13.4 first time out (Its blown now, guy always cuts corners :disappoin). I wouldn't doubt it. I think every honda should have an H22 in it.

But yeah, thats the thing about DSM's, they require a lot of attention. The guy running the 16's in the GSX, it could be as simple as a boost leak in the piping, low C/R, to a novice driver. But the car could and should have been faster. Whats that DSM line "Making mechanics out of normal people since 1989." Thats what kills me when someone says "I raped a 5.0 last night" and their in an RS Teg with 20k on it and its an 88 GT 5.0 with 10k left in it if its lucky.

"I doubt if you've ever raced a serious Honda tuner, the way you sound."
If your talking a turbocharged B18C1 HB pushing 400whp, no, I haven't. Those cars are few and far between, especially in Oregon. I hear theres some beasts up in Seattle, but im not going to drive 4+ hrs to race. I've raced swapped hondas, a few turbo soch VTEC's, V6 probes/mx6's, GT's, F-bodys, a couple Vettes, a VR4, a few Bimmers, a Celica All-Track, MR2, ect. I don't go around trying to pick on DX Civics with tips.

There was a 1995 GSX with at least an exhaust and a BOV that ran mid-low 16's ALL NIGHT. I'm talking at least four passes here. Granted, it was really hot and humid that night

there was something seriously wrong with that GSX

:iagree:

A GSX with 210hp and 214lbs torque should be able to run a better 1/4 mile that 16sec....these cars have a 0-60 of about 6.7 sec....granted they are a little heavy and the conditions werent the best....but I definitly thing that car was F*cked up

im agreeing with that lol

Originally posted by StageOneGalant
that TSI will murder u're friends Civic,, unless the kid in the TSI can't drive for $hit.. but all he has to do is floor it! and steer the wheel.. let me know the outcome.. which i think i could say safely that the TSI has it locked.. let me know anyway.


Even if the guy in the Talon can't drive, how hard can it be to drive an auto. Just drive and steer. That Civic will get raped.

A Civic SI has 160hp and 110 ft lbs of torque compared to the Talon which has 210hp and 214ft lbs of torque

http://modelreports.cars.com/modeldata/trim_report.jsp?makeid=13&modelid=161&year=1998&myid=1789&acode=USA80EAC021C0&grp=specs&dtl=W&aff=national

The only advantage the civic has is that it's about 200lbs less than the talon which won't make a big difference

There is also the disadvantage of the talon being an auto.

Actually, that's a small disadvantage compared to the horsepower gap and the AWD tranny the TSI has.

All AWD DSM's weigh atleast 3150lbs. A stripped 90-94 DSM(no AC, PS, carpet, insulation, ABS, bumpers, backseats, ect.) can weigh in at less than 2800lbs. And that takes a lot of work and mutilating of the car. And if im right, no Civic weighs more than about 2800lbs. A 92-95 HB weighs 2100lbs, coupe 2230, 4 door weighs in at 2300lbs. The Civic has a distinct weight advantage.

Ur right the Si has a weight advantage...but it isnt as large as u think.....'00 Si weighs in at 2601lbs curb weight. Unfortunately the weight is the only advantage the Si has. I say with a little help from FI the Si will win...but that is the only way

For every 100lbs dropped, that's .1 seconds off your 1/4 time no matter how powerful your car is. A 3100lb awd DSM will still beat any stock - slightly modded 2100-2800lb civic (driver depending). If the Civic had the same 200hp and awd drivetrain, it would only have a 1.0-0.3 second advantage. Since the 99-00 Civic Si's weigh about 2600 and have a pretty big 40hp and 80tq disadvantage, those 500lbs really don't make up for anything.

Originally posted by CAptynCrunch
Yup, polygons right. A Tsi will kill a civic any day. Doesn't matter how good a shifter your firend is, he's gonna lose.

Yup he's dead...

at pacific raceways there was a 2nd gen GSX hitting mid 14's, and another hitting low 14's. the omnly thing I could tell they had was eaxhaust, or mauybe just the muffler, but I test drove a 2nd gen TSI AWD and they do MOVE. I was thinking of getting it but then heard of crankwalk, and decided to go elsewhere, unfortunatly I went FORD:dunno: and since ive gone honda the last 2 and am gonna stick with em.:bigthumb:

They're quick, but I found out about the "DSM click" (knocking lifters) after my 94 Talon's engine turned into a box of scrap metal. Oh yeah after I had the engine rebuilt, the tranny fell apart. I'm on my third Honda (third Civic too) and plan on staying with them for a long time.

I hadnt heard of that problem, but I heard that the first gen the tranny was not too great and knew a kid with a 1st gen GSX and he has some tranny probs with it, and that the 2nd gens the engines were the problem. the crankwalk is what scared me, and not really cuz it happens, I figured Id just fix it, and it would be fixed but then found out it does it sometimes at 20k, some 120k, some never, and I heard a story about a guy who had his fixed and it did it again a month later.

but once im rich then ill get one

Originally posted by carrrnuttt


Not to flame, but assumption is the mother of all f**kups.



hey you got that from me when i quoted under siege 2 dammit. i'mma copyright it on this forum if you don't be careful :loser: :icon16: :icesangel

Originally posted by 95civicman


hey you got that from me when i quoted under siege 2 dammit. i'mma copyright it on this forum if you don't be careful :loser: :icon16: :icesangel

I heard that phrase WAAAY before Under Siege 1 OR 2, from my drill-instructor in Basic Training. This was in 1992.

Where do you think the movie got that statement? The Military.

Recognize, SON:thefinger.