1995 Geo with rusty suspension

Hi there,

I'm looking at a 1995 Geo that has 150k on the odometer that the seller wants to sell for $1300. I offered her $800, not thinking she would take it, and she called me back a few days later saying that she would sell it to me. The paint is bubbling on the bottom three inches of both doors due to corrosion and although the underbody does not have rust, the tire suspension (wheel mounts?), frame, and brake fluid pipes etc do. The engine starts right up, but when I raise the RPMs while parked a loud humming, low-frequency vibration starts that seems to come from the passenger rear. The car is not insured so I cannot take it for a test drive, and in order to get it safety inspected I would have to tow it to a garage.

Is this a good find that I can fix up for cheap or would it be a money pit? Any ideas what is causing the loud hum at higher RPMs?

Thanx,
Chris

The humming is most likely the exhaust, as that is where it is located. The most important place to look is where the lower control arms bolt to the unibody on the underside of the car, behind the engine compartment, to the sides of the center tunnel. if those mounts are rusted out the car is generally considered junk unless you know someone who can do extensive welding cheap.

Jon

Hi John,

Thanks for your reply. I suspected that the humming noise was from the exhaust, but wasn't sure. I read in a post somewhere (might have been a forum for a different car) that one can determine if the exhaust is the cause of a noise if one puts his foot against the muffler and seeing if the noise stops. At the time I didn't have someone else to press the accelerator while I steady the muffler with my foot, so I didn't check this.

Thanks for the tip regarding the lower control arm mounts. I didn't know what a control arm was until you mentioned it. It turns out that the control arm was what caught my attention. I had thought it was part of the suspension. It was covered in rust. I didn't notice the mount though, as I didn't get that far under the vehicle. Other parts such as the bars that run back and forth were rusty too. If I take another look at it I'll make note of the mounts.

Is there any way to stop the noise from the muffler?

Thanks again,
Chris

It's probably just a bad or broken mount, just need to replace the rubber donut or have the loose part welded. Another possibility is that it has been hit and the exhaust has moved over and is against something under the car. Some careful adjustments will usually take care of that.

Jon

Most of the parts you describe are solid steel and unlikely to get more than surface rust. When the connection points on the unibody rust out it's a major repair to get them welded up.

Hi Jon,

If those parts only get surface rust, then perhaps there is nothing to worry about. I did notice that one "bar" between the back tires had 1-1.5mm of flaky rust.

I thought that it might be a vibrating exhaust system, as I had read something to that regard in another post. I was alone so couldn't secure the muffler with my foot while having someone accelerate the engine. If I check the car again I will bring someone to do that. I'll be sure to check the mounts too.

The engine had a clean air inspection two months ago, which it passed by a wide margin. My understanding is that this indicates that the engine is in good condition. So I'm not concerned about that. But the rust around the bottom of the doors and on the bars underneath the body... I'm concerned about having to do $1700 in repairs for the CVs and struts, or more.

The seller doesn't have any other receipts for work done on the car, other than the clean air inspection. She claims that her brother took care of the maintenance. Which makes me wonder why she hasn't gotten the reciepts from her brother.

Regards,
Chris

Hi Jon,

I've responded twice now and both times the forum loses my response, so I'm going to keep it short this time. Basically the engine on the metro had a good clean air inspection two months ago, and passed by a wide margin. The seller doesn't have any other reciepts than that. So I feel that the engine is good.

If the rust is surface rust then perhaps I don't have much to worry about, but I don't want to have to shell out $1700 for repairs to the CVs and struts. I'll take a closer look at the mounts, and learn a bit about the suspenion and CVs before I go back.

Next time I'm there I'll bring someone to step against the muffler while I accelerate the engine.

Regards,
Chris

Some quick research should let you know what you are looking at. Call a couple of junk yards in your area and check prices for doors. Replacing them can be a little involved and generally takes some type of impact driver to get them loose (either a manual or air powered variety). Make sure there is no cancer in the unibody below the doors or under the fenders, rust in the unibody requires welding and can get expensive quickly. Rust on replaceable parts isn't as big a deal since you can take them off and replace them. The bar under the car that goes all the way across is the sway bar (one in front, one in back) it is not likely to rust through and is also fairly easy to replace. The little motors in these cars are really quite strong for their size and get great gas mileage. Most things are pretty easy to fix and only a few items are overly expensive (and those can generally be found at a junk yard, cheap) I would recommend getting the car up in the air, either with jack stands or parking it with 2 wheels on a curb, and sliding under it with a small screwdriver. Use the screwdriver to probe the underside of the car, looking for soft spots that would indicate rust through under the undercoat. As long as the unibody isn't rusted through it's hard to get burned on these cars. With a little ability, a few tools, and a lot of patience, you can replace the motor and tranny for arround 750.00 or less. I've been driving my 95 since 2000, I overpaid at a dealer lot, it had a transmission problem, had been in a "minor" accident front and rear, and it ate alternator belts, but I have never regretted buying it. After torturing the transmission for 5 years it finally started making death noises, and the motor ran for a few months after being driven with no oil pressure (made an incorrect assumption about why the pressure showed low, and it didn't miss a beat afterwards. I'm still not %100 sure if that why it stopped running, as a whole cascade of things happened at the same time, but a JDM replacement motor put it back on the road fairly quickly).

Hope this helps in your decision.

Jon

get down and check the lower rocker panel.They are bad for rusting out.
Mechanically these cars are great. The exhaust is probably just hitting the
cross bar over by the right rear spring. It is probably minor rust under the
car. Tap on the center outside of the fenders on the front. They get soft if
they are rusting from the inside out.

Hi Jon,

Thank you very much for your detailed description of what to do to check the unibody. You sound very convinced that the metro is a good investment. That's reassuring. I like that it has a non-interference engine, and it has some headroom.

Getting the metro up on a curb will be tough to do right now as it is snowing and blowing outside, and tomorrow will be -17(C). I haven't mentioned yet that I live in a high-rust, snow-belt region. That and the owner/seller does not have insurance on the vehicle right now, and she might be reluctant to let me drive it down the driveway to the curb. But it's worth a shot once a warmer day comes along.

I wish the owner still had insurance on the car, so that I could take it for a test drive, and drive it to a road-safety inspection. You can't buy insurance for a day here and getting it inspected (which is required for insurance) will require towing it to the shop ($75) and then possibly towing it back (another $75). Of course it also makes it impossible (illegal) to take an uninsured car for a test drive.

I checked into it and the total cost of getting it safety checked (including towing) would be $270. Add a compression check and a few other inspections and it becomes $430. Jeez. That's a lot to spend on a car that might not pass safety. Of course if it did pass it would be worth it.

Anyhow I'll check the unibody and under the fenders. I recall seeing rust in the body under the doors when I looked at it the first time.

I actually read a post somewhere about the wheel coming right off an Metro while driving. That must be the rusty mount you were talking about.

Thanks,
Chris

get down and check the lower rocker panel.They are bad for rusting out.
Mechanically these cars are great. The exhaust is probably just hitting the
cross bar over by the right rear spring. It is probably minor rust under the
car. Tap on the center outside of the fenders on the front. They get soft if
they are rusting from the inside out.

Thanks for the tips. The hitting would explain the loudness of the hum. I'll check the fenders as you describe.

Chris

I actually read a post somewhere about the wheel coming right off an Metro while driving. That must be the rusty mount you were talking about.

That's exactly right. If the rocker panels (area below the doors) are rusted, that is part of the unibody and would require welding to repair, fenders are obviously a pull and replace part. If you have insurance on another vehicle you may be covered already, just call your insurance co. and check with them.

Good luck!!

I have a 96 Metro 53k/mi on it when I bought. I am assuming the rust you are talking about is like the rust pictured below?

http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/users/43c21be4z65b18269/7bbd/__sr_/7af0re2.jpg?phIw79DBT_bDPJ7C

Barely visible from above without getting under it.
http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/users/43c21be4z65b18269/7bbd/__sr_/1143re2.jpg?ph4N99DB59kTh5H8
Yea, it needs to be cleaned...
Directly under the door, on both sides.
http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/users/43c21be4z65b18269/7bbd/__sr_/c5c2re2.jpg?ph4N99DBwY5zttLW

http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/users/43c21be4z65b18269/7bbd/__sr_/4d17re2.jpg?ph4N99DB0lQWt4HX

http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/users/43c21be4z65b18269/7bbd/__sr_/ce62re2.jpg?ph4N99DB7Qgbl_H1

I also was wondering what the cause was?? It was there when I bought it & appears to be spreading fast. Do they ALL do this? I am NOT sorry I bought it, in fact I am looking for a Tracker or Sidekick. Any known cure? Anyone have any idea what the cause is?
Thanks,
Gumby_CT

The pictures in my previous post were removed - without explanation - so I have NO idea why? They were hosted on my ISP so I really do NOT understand.

Being a feeble mind with a brain injury - I could NOT figure out how to get them small enuff to post pics on the gallery here.

But here they are on another site.
http://photobucket.com/albums/e10/Gumby_CT/

That does appear to possibly be body cancer, if it is rusted all the way through the only way to repair it is to cut it all out to where there is good metal then weld in a patch panel. This rust is generally caused by the road salts put down during the winter. If it not rusted through then I would recommend repairing it before it does. Once it rusts through it attacks from both sides with trapped water in the space on the other side and spreads even faster. This area (rocker panel) is not as vital as the control arm mounts but can eventually create a structural problem. With rust here it is important to make sure there isn't rust elsewhere. I would rocommend a thorough inspection to check for more rust.

I understand that rocker panels can be welded up because of the frame underneath, but what can a person do about rust above the tire arches? Can this stuff be ground down and then bondoed or fiberglassed? The metal is so thin, It's a wonder my car has survived ten years of road salting eight months out of the year.

Jai

All metal can be welded, the thinner metal requires more skill and the correct equipment. Fiberglass is a viable alternative, just make sure all the rust is gone. I would not want to do that as my first work with glassing, although you do have the advantage of it not being seen. If you want to do it yourself do a lot of reading beforehand and make sure you know how to bond it to the metal. Another option would be to make a mold, glass up a part and rivit or glass in the patch panel. I am not an expert in either trade, but I have done some extensive reading on both and have done some arc welding. Both options will work, fiberglass would be easier to do yourself with no experience and would probably be cheaper either way.

Jon