how complicated are turbo's?

just a topic i have very little experience in... i understand the workings of a turbo, how it gets oil, the different types. but what im fuzzy on is 2 main things.... 1 maintainance>what do i need to do to make sure i dont wear the fins off or shuck a fin completely off < ive seen some and that scares me (should i be?). 2. tuning< how do you 'turn up' a turbo? adjusting boost, and spool speed,< any electronic duhickies i gotta deal with. bigger turbos, anything to keep in mind? ( if you need a for instance vehicle use what ever you want, preferibly though a gen 1, but if you can only think of say a 03 tuboed volvo thats good too).

How complicated is it to search?

Im cold.

http://x11.putfile.com/10/30122495094.jpg (http://www.putfile.com)

It would be much easier and more informative to look it up on www.howstuffworks.com. They have a better explaination than anyone is going to be able to provide here in a series of posts.

If you have any DSM specific questions we can all definitely help you out. To specifically answer your questions:

1: A turbo is a very delicate part. The compressor blades spin up to and in excess of 100k rpms. As long as junk doesn't get into your intake, theoretically they should never get damaged. They are only meant to handle air flowing.

2: There is usually a separate part of the turbo called the wastegate. It usually has a vacuum line that runs to it. When the turbo compresses the air, it changes the vac line into a pressurized line. The wastegate has a spring that opens and releases air when the pressure gets too great. My turbos wastegate opens at 10psi. You can tap off of that line and syphon off pressurized air thus "tricking the wastegate." Where the wastegate will see only 10psi the turbo is really building 15psi (if you set it to 15). I'm simplifying a lot just to give you a basic understanding.

The important part of a turbo is the center section. As long as you make sure you're running a good air filter and an intake pipe without holes in it, you shouldn't damage the fins.

The center section holds the shaft and bearings, on which everything depends. There are oil feed and return lines to keep a fresh stream of oil running through the center section, providing lubrication and cooling for the friction that occurs. There are also coolant lines on stock turbos, although these are typically unnecessary if you let your turbo cool down (running the engine without being in boost) before shutting the car off.

Make sure your turbo gets clean oil, and don't shut the car off immediately after boosting, and your turbo will be happy for a long time. There are a ton of threads about boost control, so I'll let you find that yourself.

The important part of a turbo is the center section. As long as you make sure you're running a good air filter and an intake pipe without holes in it, you shouldn't damage the fins.

The center section holds the shaft and bearings, on which everything depends. There are oil feed and return lines to keep a fresh stream of oil running through the center section, providing lubrication and cooling for the friction that occurs. There are also coolant lines on stock turbos, although these are typically unnecessary if you let your turbo cool down (running the engine without being in boost) before shutting the car off.

Make sure your turbo gets clean oil, and don't shut the car off immediately after boosting, and your turbo will be happy for a long time. There are a ton of threads about boost control, so I'll let you find that yourself.

how home u only show up at night when not many ppl are on :grinyes:

how home u only show up at night when not many ppl are on

I'm a busy man; it's hard to find time to come on here at all ;)

well atleast its good to see you on at all :-D

The wastegate has a spring that opens and releases air when the pressure gets too great. My turbos wastegate opens at 10psi. You can tap off of that line and syphon off pressurized air thus "tricking the wastegate." Where the wastegate will see only 10psi the turbo is really building 15psi (if you set it to 15). I'm simplifying a lot just to give you a basic understanding.[/quote]

i knew that stuff (about the waste gate, and blow off valve and all that fun jazz). but this here is what i was wondering about. now by tricking the wastegate, does this change the amt of boost on your guage? (if it doesn't) then how can you measure the boost you are making(im not too familiar with the boost sensor assembly). are there different strengths of springs for the wastegate, or just entirely different units you can buy for different tolerences(or is tricking the waste gate an... accepted practice in tuning it...or is there a chance of it breaking this way). and with the added boost did you have to change your blow off valve to get rid of the greater amt of air in the intake. are there other ways of tuning it? (can i run smaller lift on intake and more lift on exhaust to help push out the exhaust, helping boost> yet controlling the amount of new a/f mixture brought in)

Conceptually this is how I *think* it works. The turbo compresses air which fills the air lines. The boost gauge reads the pressure in the lines (say 15 psi). The turbo continues to compress the air until it reaches a threshold (15 psi). The air needs to either continue getting compressed or escape. If you had no boost controller, it would just escape through the wastegate by putting so much pressure on the spring, that it would open the hatch and air would flow through, thus capping the boost limit. When you have a boost controller, now the air has two directions it can go. Out through the opening in the boost controller or out through the wastegate. When the air can't escape from the opening in the boost controller fast enough, it goes through the wastegate. So the boost gauge can read how much boost is in the system, and the two "vents" limit it.

There are different strengths of springs on wastegates. When you start running really high boost, sometimes the air can't escape through the boost controller fast enough and so the wastegate HAS to open. This is your theoretically cap on boost with that system. You can get external wastegates that have much stiffer springs and can hold more boost (provided there is nothing else in you system that will not leak boost). I imagine you can break a small wastegate, but I haven't heard of it. It is probably the most acceptable practice for raising boost to "trick" the wastegate.

I don't know much about the operation of a BOV but there is a good sticky in the main forum you should read. The BOV doesn't really affect the intake or exhaust side of the turbo. You can't really change it the way you said in your post. You can't have less air going into the system and more air coming out. You have to have more air coming in, some gets used in combustion and then gasses/air flowing out.

A/F is controlled by the ECU. The ECU directs the traffic of air and fuel flow. Thats why we all spend so much money getting piggyback systems or direct links to the ECU to mess with how it mixes air and fuel. It can't be changed mechanically as you are suggesting. Hope this all helps.

Dragon your a little off on how a boost contoller works.

A boost controller intercepts the vac/pressure reading that the wastegate recieves. Its like adding a second spring to the wastegate. Once the pressure that the boost contoller is set for is reached, it opens and allows the wastegate to see that pressure so it can open and allow exhaust gas to bypass the turbine wheel. In doing this it controls how fast the turbine wheel spins, there for contolling how fast the compressor spins. Once the wastegate opens (in a properly working system;i.e. no boost creep) the the turbine/compressor wheels stabilize in speed and maintain a constant boost pressure.

Hope that clears things up.(and i am 99.9% sure im right)

zx2guy: the stock boost gauge is shit and doesn't mean anything(in a DSM). Its a calculation the ecu comes up with based on how much air is going through the MAS. You need to get a aftermarket boost gauge and hook it into any vacuum line that goes to the intake. this will show you the real psi/vac that is occuring in the intake.

Thanks...I think I took apart mine and made some incorrect assumptions. Don't listen to me :).

I'm still cold.

ok i think im starting to understand all of that. now (im not sure that style "bearing" the dsm trubos run) which type of bearing does stock dsm turbos run... i know of the fluid bearing and the ball bearing, but i have yet to take one apart to find out. also on say your cars, would you op for a smaller turbo (to get boost faster), or a larger (to get more boost higher up). also would you go for the ceramic, style or the metal fins? i thinks its personal preference but i figured ild ask.

ok i think im starting to understand all of that. now (im not sure that style "bearing" the dsm trubos run) which type of bearing does stock dsm turbos run... i know of the fluid bearing and the ball bearing, but i have yet to take one apart to find out. also on say your cars, would you op for a smaller turbo (to get boost faster), or a larger (to get more boost higher up). also would you go for the ceramic, style or the metal fins? i thinks its personal preference but i figured ild ask.

It depends on what your goals are. Are you making a race car, or street, or dual purpose? It seems most people are happy with the 16G, and you can easily get into the 12s with that turbo without driveability issues. So if you aren't making an all out drag only car, IMO you should go with the 16G.

ok i think im starting to understand all of that. now (im not sure that style "bearing" the dsm trubos run) which type of bearing does stock dsm turbos run... i know of the fluid bearing and the ball bearing, but i have yet to take one apart to find out. also on say your cars, would you op for a smaller turbo (to get boost faster), or a larger (to get more boost higher up). also would you go for the ceramic, style or the metal fins? i thinks its personal preference but i figured ild ask.

I'm not sure why style bearing our turbos are so I can't help you there. It all depends on what you are looking for when looking at spool rates. There are a lot of things you can do to change how fast your turbo spools, given its size. The 16g variants and the T-28 are generally regarded as good "street turbos" because they can spool very quick (between 3k and 3.8k depending on your set up). I'll throw out a cursory list of turbos for you and what I know:

Mitsubishi
13g (stock turbo on 1g automatics)
T25 (stock turbo on 2gs)
14b (stock turbo on 1g manuals)
T28 (many variants-basically a T25 with a bigger compressor wheel, much more powerful)
16g (many variants-small, big, evoiii-very popular)
18g (a little bigger than a 16g but not as big as a...)
20g (a mean turbo)

Then you get into garrett turbos and hybrids. I don't know much about these so hopefully someone else can jump in. All of the above turbos will bolt up to the stock manifold for turbo eclipses.