how do babies + the deaf think?

we think by using our inner monologue right?
well, what language do we use in that monologue?

now, what language do babies and the deaf (those born deaf) use?

i am assuming the deaf use some sort of sign later on, but they weren't born knowing sign so how do they think?

Do German people think in German? How do animals think? They all have their own ways.

yes, german people do think in german.

animals do not think,
that is what makes them animals

yes, german people do think in german.

animals do not think,
that is what makes them animals

Yes animals think. not to the degree in which we do but they think. Just think of evolution and think how advanced monkeys are for being animals.

animals do not think,
that is what makes them animals

If they can dream why can't they think?

Deaf people would tend to think more symbolically than us.
Babies don't really think in the sense that we think of.
And some animals (namely Chimps, Gorillas, Orangs) think at a level comparable to a 12 year old human.

not a 12 year old, i heard a 5 year old. at twelve i was already thinking somewhat philosophically, i thought up determinism before anyone told me about it. if an ape could think to that extent they would be able to do alot more than they do now.

Absolutely older than 5...no question about it. A couple of the amazing things chimpanzees are capable of:

Self recognition: When placed in front of a mirror, removed and painted in some way on their body, and then placed in front of a mirror again, they immediately begin concentrating on the paint. This shows self awareness and autonomous thinking.

Foresight, planning: Several tribes of chimps have been known to fashion tools that are carried over long distances for a specifiec purpose. This means they understand that they will be going somewhere to perform a task, that they need a tool for the task crafted in advance, and that they need to bring the tool with.

Deception: There is one tribe that specifically sets traps for other animals to investigate, after which the tribe surrounds and kills the investigator.

Symbolic thinking: Using a lexicon, chimps are able to categorize items into abstract categories. e.g. a bunch of food items can be placed into a category for which the symbol has nothing to do with food. They can mentally organize objects symbolically, which is pretty impressive when you think about what that entails.

5 year olds are capable of all of those things though.

exactly what i was going to say

Actually they're not. Intentional deception with malicious intent is generally accepted to occur no earlier than 12 years old.
I've never met a 5 year old that planned out their day without being told what to do and carried out that plan.
Symbolic, abstract classification for a 5 year old? Yeah right. Such things are not even begun to be taught to children (like in mathematics) until late elementary school/high school
I will admit that they are capable of some self awareness, but not even close to the level of a chimp.

i suppose they think using thier own version of monologue like i, a german, a russian, and a deaf person look at an apple. while the word attatched to the object(the apple) is different it pretty much means the same. show a banana, same thing. its like when we are learning, you see a... book for the first time... did it have a name then? no but we assigned a name like thingy or whatchamacalit. same concept. just extended by stringing these words together ... it is a complicated subject though

Actually they're not. Intentional deception with malicious intent is generally accepted to occur no earlier than 12 years old.
I've never met a 5 year old that planned out their day without being told what to do and carried out that plan.
Symbolic, abstract classification for a 5 year old? Yeah right. Such things are not even begun to be taught to children (like in mathematics) until late elementary school/high school
I will admit that they are capable of some self awareness, but not even close to the level of a chimp.


makes you wonder, how far are we ahead of them really? not as much as we tend to beleive. a baby chimp will develop on par with a baby human until they reach about 2 at that point the human starts to surpass the chimp.

a baby chimp will develop on par with a baby human until they reach about 2 at that point the human starts to surpass the chimp.

I think I'll have to disagree on this. Maybe not totally but I've heard differently.

What is with all this stuff about children learning faster at around one year old than any other age?

Like I've heard if a child around eight months old listens to spanish, their brain will soak it up and when you try to teach it to them again around lets say 14, they'll learn at a much faster rate than another child who wasn't exposed to it at a young age.

when i was learning to speak, one parent spoke to me in english, the otehr in french. i didn't speak french however, though i spoke english. i could completely understand french but not speak it. it wasn't until i got to french school when i started speaking it.

The deaf think just like the rest of us. If you've ever paid attention to or known deaf people you will notice that they move their lips and usually vocalize whatever they are signing as well.

I dont think that we really think in words its far to inefficient "linear thought". I assume that we think in a more direct fashion and the monolouge is just their at times to help us be conciously aware of and force control of some of are thoughts.

As for the whole deaf deal, I can clear a lot of this up now. My stepdad is deaf and speaks clearly enough to be understood without sign language. His voice is very high pitched because he pronounces the words better that way. He told me he can assosiate with sounds, hell he can tell a harley from a mustang if it goes by the house by the vibrations and pressure. He has 4 10in audiobahns in his truck, too. :) He has been deaf since he was 18 weeks old, so he had no memory of any sounds.

what would be his decision making thought process?

lets say you were driving and suddenly a deer pops out. the deer however isn't inches away from the car, but is instead far enough that you can make a decision on what you should do. at the same time, there is a car close behind you.
what would be his thought process as he analyzes the situation and decides 1. whether to swerve, 2. to slam on the brakes, or 3. to gently slow down?


i was reading an article written by a autistic person describing a similar situation. in it, he stated that instead of words, he literally saw flashes of pictures appear in his mind (similar to a movie projector, but slower so that you can clearly make out each frame) of what would most likely occur if he 1. hit the brakes, 2. swerved, or 3. slowed down.
when he thought about hitting the brakes, pictures of an accident between him and the car behind him flashed. When he thought about swerving, pictures of him smashing into the panicked deer flashed. When he thought about slowing down, pictures of the deer peacefully crossing the road flashed (also without getting rear-ended).

in the end he chose choice 3, and ended up getting out of the situation without incident.

i'll try to locate that article and post it later.


i understand your step-father is not autistic, but i am interested in other forms of thinking. How does he process decisions?

Most of the time, humans rely on visual references in memory to make decisions. (According to my biology class, anyhow). So I'm guessing he just does that moreso than a normal person.I got to thinking about this and its a pretty interesing subject.

OK wait a minute!
You asked," how babies and the deaf think", but now the senerio is 'decision making thought process' and then your talking about an article written by a autistic person describing a similar situation..... errr a

...Well babies dont hav conscience thought.
I would think the hearing impaired probley think quietly, at least more than you or I.

As far as autistism goes, they shouldnt be driving in the first place!
Just my :2cents:

werd, aren't autistic people a little to unstable to be driving....?

see the problem with this thread is that it was strayed from the begining. Your inner monologue is not your only way of thinking. Think of a math problem, 5X3+11=? Now solving this simple problem you could not just say the problem and have the answer, you need to think it out numerically or X and + the numbers in your head. You dont need an inner monologue to think, you need it to express your thoughts. Ahh i thought of a better example. Think of your car floating in an open space, now think of all the angles of that car, move the car up down around spin it, and think of everything on the car that you know of. While doing this you shouldnt have any inner monologue, its all from memory but still your thinking and analyzing.

I would assume that is the way an animal would think of something. You dont need words to think, just to express yourself.

I watched a program on TV one time about children who were abused and left in isolation there entire life. Well once they were found, psychologist would want to study them and try and teach them a language. What they discovered is that the people could beat taught to do everything a normal human being could do, have the same intelligence, understand math and everything else, but one thing they could not do was understand language. No matter how hard they tried to teach these people, a language was out of there reach. They had lived so long thinking and expressing themselves through there own ways and being, that to them a language was beyond there grasp of thinking.

So that Brendan Frazier movie Caveman is full of shit? Yeah right...
j/k..


Jayson made a nice point. We have instincts, and symbolism. Language is just a tool to express that. It's our ability to recognize and classify feelings/objects which allows us to attach a word to it. But language is highly unnecessary in order to process a thought.


My best way to sum it up is that thinking enables us to speak... Speaking does not enable us to think.

So that Brendan Frazier movie Caveman is full of shit? Yeah right...
j/k..


Jayson made a nice point. We have instincts, and symbolism. Language is just a tool to express that. It's our ability to recognize and classify feelings/objects which allows us to attach a word to it. But language is highly unnecessary in order to process a thought.


My best way to sum it up is that thinking enables us to speak... Speaking does not enable us to think.

i understand.
but i am not saying people who do not speak, cannot think - everybody thinks afterall - it is what makes us human; i am just curious at how different (ex. deaf) people think.

specifically, i am asking:
what would be the equivalent to our inner monologue "style" of thought, in a deaf person who has never heard any language before? or, how would a deaf person reflect on themselves?

I wish we had a deaf person's input because its a very interesting topic. I've thought of it before too.


But what I'm saying is that whether you have a word attached to your feelings or not, you can still recognize and understand them. So a series of feelings would be equivalent to a series of words. Try to imagine any emotions that you couldn't understand without words. You can't do it. Of course after you think of it, the words will follow, but that's irrelevent.

I find myself thinking in english 50% of the time actually, im sitting on the bus, having an inner dialogue in swedish, and suddenly i realize in thinking in english. It's wierd since I never speak english.

are your inner monologues purely word based or do you sometimes also have attached imagery with them?

there is most definitely imagery.

my point exactly.

something that interests me is how people who speak fluently more than one language think.
i speak english and cantonese fluently, being brought with both in my life.
i can transisition between the two fluidly and only at times, is there some hesitence in my cntonese taht doesn't get much use these days.
however, when i think or talk, i do not need to pause to translate between the two as my brain is wired to read both in the same manner, so to speak.

how about for those who learnt a second language later in life.
is there any active translating going on in your head?

I learned spanish very well in high school. I remember always walkin around talking in spanish cause I liked it. Sometimes I would think in spanish but it would be completely purposeful. But that doesn't mean I had to try and translate since I knew it so well.

does that make sense? It was basically a choice. English is natural for me so I would have to decide if I wanted to think in spanish instead.