moving the battery

anybody moved there battery to the trunk i'm having trouble with getting my short air intake to sit right in the engine bay because i have a ls motor an the car is a 88 civic hb . the intake is rubbing the postive terimal almost on the battery i was thinking bout getting the Summit trunk mount battery kit .anybody got one or heard anything bout them

Originally posted by 88B18aHB
anybody moved there battery to the trunk i'm having trouble with getting my short air intake to sit right in the engine bay because i have a ls motor an the car is a 88 civic hb . the intake is rubbing the postive terimal almost on the battery i was thinking bout getting the Summit trunk mount battery kit .anybody got one or heard anything bout them


I know someone with it relocated. Plus I am thinking about it myself.

But, for the problem at hand. You can take a piece of rubber hose, like the kind used on the end of your intake, and put it around the intake where your postive terminal is. That way it wont keep grounding out. Hope that makes some sense.

My Battery is in the back of my hatch, its a great and cheap mod. Also Dont buy the kit from summit, its wasted money. Go buy 4 guage wire from HomeDepot, about 14 feet, and a couple of feet of 2 guage wire for your ground. run the wire from your engine bay through one of the holes in your firewall, under your rug all the way to the back and your done, it's great because it evens out the weight distibution of the car.

Originally posted by Bleebdat
My Battery is in the back of my hatch, its a great and cheap mod. Also Dont buy the kit from summit, its wasted money. Go buy 4 guage wire from HomeDepot, about 14 feet, and a couple of feet of 2 guage wire for your ground. run the wire from your engine bay through one of the holes in your firewall, under your rug all the way to the back and your done, it's great because it evens out the weight distibution of the car.


You really should have some sort of fuse it between there somewhere. Something like the big fuses used in car audio.

Kb: I actually use circuit breakers instead one in engine bay, and one at battery, I tried fuses, but they would blow due to the power the starter needs.

yea fuses dont go that high, a starter usually requires about 2-300 amps of power to start, so aint no stereo fuse gonna do that

Originally posted by crxlvr
yea fuses dont go that high, a starter usually requires about 2-300 amps of power to start, so aint no stereo fuse gonna do that


Okay, well now I know that. But he didnt mention anything like that. Not everybody is smart enought to put something in there. :D

But what willyou do then, if you would like to have some subs(subwofer) in your trunk, I was thinking of that to to move battery but then I remembered that I need trunk space for music, so nothing won't come reality...

Oh yeah one advace use a strong wire( I mean for lot Ampers) to connect your previus wires, cause if it'll be to thin it will burn the plastick or rubber around the wire and cause the +(pluse) will came in touch with the ground and that is not good at all :eek:

I hope that you understand anything I wanned to say :flash:

Good luck

Im sorry for not mentioning the safety devices, but in truth they arent necessary. I have been running my mr2 with the battery upfront(engine in rear) for years with out a breaker or fuse. Unless you have some sort of problem with your battery or connections there should be no problems.

Originally posted by Bleebdat
Im sorry for not mentioning the safety devices, but in truth they arent necessary. I have been running my mr2 with the battery upfront(engine in rear) for years with out a breaker or fuse. Unless you have some sort of problem with your battery or connections there should be no problems.



There is no need for seat belts either, unless you get in a accident.

KB: if you say so, but the only difference between battery in front and back is 10 feet of cable. It's always better to be safe, but I doubt we are all following the speed limits either =).

Hmmm... can't believe i'm the only one to point this out but he's driving a hatchback. I HIGHLY recommend going with a sealed battery such as an Optima Yellow top, non-sealed batteries can vent dangerous gases into the passenger compartment. The Optima can be mounted upside-down if you'd like but I wouldn't recommend it.

Originally posted by PFCfutrell
I HIGHLY recommend going with a sealed battery such as an Optima Yellow top, non-sealed batteries can vent dangerous gases into the passenger compartment. The Optima can be mounted upside-down if you'd like but I wouldn't recommend it.

Plus they look cool if you have it all prettied up with your Amp rack and distribution block nearby. :)

thanks for telling me bout the gas. i knew that the battery would blow up if it was puntruced.but had not heard bout gas comming from the battery.plus looking over the kit i ordered seems to be crap now cause the bolts have to be welded an the kit has to be in a trunk to be legal at the track am im thinking that might be because of the gas. :bloated:

Most race tracks require trunk-mounted batteries to be enclosed in a battery box. The difference between using your old battery and a new sealed battery is that with a regular battery you'd have to vent the box to the atmosphere to pass a tech inspection. With the Optima you'd just have to have it in a battery box with no need for a vent tube making life a lot easier and your hatch that much prettier.

I would go with the "orbital" battery instead of the "optima". Little on the spendy side, but worth it.

There is no need for seat belts either, unless you get in a accident.

Good point, i'd NEVER run a wire from the battery almost all the way through the car without protection. If anything goes wrong, no matter how little, including an accident, you are almost gaurenteeing total loss of your car in a fire with that much current.

You can relocate your starter solenoid to the back of your trunk, and run a wire from the solenoid to your alternator - which in fact, CAN be protected. The only time the heavy wire to the starter will be hot is when you crank the engine with the voltage that is supplied from the key (low current wire from ignition to solenoid, which also can be protected). I suggest using a circuit breaker in applications that are exposed to heat, as the hotter fuses get, the slower it takes to trip them.

I'll second the fact that most tracks won't allow you to run a non-sealed type battery that isn't behind a firewall without an enclosure vented outside the car. They also will require a clearly visible and marked push/pull type switch, that shuts the car off and all electricity down to the car, even when running.

However, I don't know why anyone would want to do this in a front wheel drive car, it *might* improve the weight ratio, but traction will suffer since you are taking weight off from over the drive wheels, and placing it in the back. I sure wouldn't want to go around a curve quickly with all the weight being transferred to the back to the point where i lose the ability to steer because the battery in the back is putting negative weight in the front.

just to clarify a little.. to be legal for track use, the battery has to be mounted IN a box, with atleast 2 3/8" bolts. You have to have the battery vented to the outside (unless it is a sealed battery like optima), and also, *very important* you must have a shut off switch for the battery installed. I drove 60 miles to a drag strip and almost had to turn around and go home becuase i didnt have one installed, per NHRA rules, but luckily i begged the tech dude to let me go since i drove all that way.

:icon16:

He was probably just too busy wondering why you want to take weight off the drive wheels to drag race? :screwy:

He was probably just too busy wondering why you want to take weight off the drive wheels to drag race? :screwy:

or maybe he was admiring how easy my intake piping could be ran with the battery out of the way and how much less cluttered the engine bay is.

:loser:

or maybe he was admiring how easy my intake piping could be ran with the battery out of the way and how much less cluttered the engine bay is.

:loser:

Word. That's the main reason I did it.

or maybe he was admiring how easy my intake piping could be ran with the battery out of the way and how much less cluttered the engine bay is.

:loser:

You're cute. Maybe he was trying to balance the loss in performance due to poorer traction with a rear mount battery in a FWD car vs the small performance gains achieved by adding aftermarket intake ducting.

"word"

Good point, i'd NEVER run a wire from the battery almost all the way through the car without protection. If anything goes wrong, no matter how little, including an accident, you are almost gaurenteeing total loss of your car in a fire with that much current.

You can relocate your starter solenoid to the back of your trunk, and run a wire from the solenoid to your alternator - which in fact, CAN be protected. The only time the heavy wire to the starter will be hot is when you crank the engine with the voltage that is supplied from the key (low current wire from ignition to solenoid, which also can be protected). I suggest using a circuit breaker in applications that are exposed to heat, as the hotter fuses get, the slower it takes to trip them.

I'll second the fact that most tracks won't allow you to run a non-sealed type battery that isn't behind a firewall without an enclosure vented outside the car. They also will require a clearly visible and marked push/pull type switch, that shuts the car off and all electricity down to the car, even when running.

However, I don't know why anyone would want to do this in a front wheel drive car, it *might* improve the weight ratio, but traction will suffer since you are taking weight off from over the drive wheels, and placing it in the back. I sure wouldn't want to go around a curve quickly with all the weight being transferred to the back to the point where i lose the ability to steer because the battery in the back is putting negative weight in the front.



Deuce Is Wild,


That's a good idea:
"
You can relocate your starter solenoid to the back of your trunk, and run a wire from the solenoid to your alternator - which in fact, CAN be protected."


Simple and effective.

I don't remember who's car this is, but it's a great guide http://www.fourthgenhatch.com/battery.html

wow a whole 30 pounds less traction will make your ET raise by 5 seconds....

im sorry, my car is not a race car. i can stand to loose a little traction to have my engine be easier to work on.

and also, FYI, i think the B18A1 swap sort of made up for the loss of traction from the puny battery. a b18 weighs about 150 lbs more than the stock 1.5L.

:rolleyes:

Deuce Is Wild,


That's a good idea:
"
You can relocate your starter solenoid to the back of your trunk, and run a wire from the solenoid to your alternator - which in fact, CAN be protected."


Simple and effective.

What... the... fuck...

If your starter is in your trunk how is your car going to start unless you move the whole engine into the trunk. I have never seen a statement that makes less sense than that. And why would you run a wire from the alternator to the starter. If the car is off the alternator isn't making any power so if your trying to power the starter off something that has no power thats not going to work. Thats why god invented batteries.

What... the... fuck...

If your starter is in your trunk how is your car going to start unless you move the whole engine into the trunk. I have never seen a statement that makes less sense than that. And why would you run a wire from the alternator to the starter. If the car is off the alternator isn't making any power so if your trying to power the starter off something that has no power thats not going to work. Thats why god invented batteries.



FourthGenHatch,

You need to re-read the original post. The guy who made the original post (Deuce Is Wild) said nothing about moving the starter to the trunk.


1: The starter stays on the engine…. Not in the trunk.


2: A "relay" (old cars and truck used to be set-up with an external starter relay) is installed near the battery. The main feed wire to the existing starter solenoid would only be hot during cranking…. Instead of ALL the time.

3:There is No wire from the starter itself to the alternator… The wire that feeds the alternator /and or fusible link would connect to the hot side of the rear mounted "relay", not the main feed wire as it normally is.


Total of three wires that would have to be run.

1: The main feed wire to the starter from rear relay (Only hot during cranking)
2: a 2nd feed wire that feeds the alternator and main fusible link from hot side of relay OR battery (Fused)
3: wire to energize the rear mounted relay in crank position.

The disadvantage to this set-up would be instead of (1) big feed wire run fore to aft…. Two other wires have to be run and an external starter relay is mounted near the battery.


The Advantage of this set-up is the second feed wire would require a much smaller fuse /circuit breaker than the 100amp one you are currently using on your set-up. And it would reduce the chance of fire /shorting of main feed wire IF not properly sheathed or is damaged….


Either way it's sort of a toss up. If the cables are routed and sheathed properly your way is fine.



PS: Saw you website: If it was me I’d double sheath that main feed wire as OEM’s do that mount batteries in the rear. You also need a real battery tie-down, as a rubber strap may not keep a 40-pound battery in place during a wreck.

Look at a BMW that has the battery mounted under the rear seat. See how they double /triple sheath the main feed wire, and see how they secure the battery.

FourthGenHatch,

You need to re-read the original post. The guy who made the original post (Deuce Is Wild) said nothing about moving the starter to the trunk.


1: The starter stays on the engine…. Not in the trunk.


2: The electrical part of the starter would be in the trunk (external starter solenoid) so the main feed wire to the starter itself would only be hot during cranking…. Instead of ALL the time.



It still makes no sense. How can you remove any part of the starter and expect it to work. I've taken automotive electrical class and rebuilt starters before. If what your saying makes any sense to yourself than you must be using the wrong terminology. A solenoid is a device made up of a magnetic coil that moves a piece of iron in and out. For the starter it is moving in an out a plunger with the pinion gear on the end of it to engauge the ring gear. So please tell me how having the solenoid in the rear of the car makes the least bit of sense at all.

It still makes no sense. How can you remove any part of the starter and expect it to work. I've taken automotive electrical class and rebuilt starters before. If what your saying makes any sense to yourself than you must be using the wrong terminology. A solenoid is a device made up of a magnetic coil that moves a piece of iron in and out. For the starter it is moving in an out a plunger with the pinion gear on the end of it to engauge the ring gear. So please tell me how having the solenoid in the rear of the car makes the least bit of sense at all.




Well I’ve been working on cars for over twenty years…

I guess I used the wrong word…should have been external “relay”, … Instead of solenoid.

So the term is relay. (Surprised you didn’t pick up on it though.)

Do you remember in years past the cars that had an external “relay”. The solenoid was in the starter, but the relay was a separate unit.


So…

The existing solenoid is left in place. The “feed” wire is connected to the rear relay mounted right off the battery. Existing solenoid gets NO juice until the “external relay” is energized.



Can you envision what I am talking about now?

Got to go… Company is coming into town. Should be here any minute.


PS: I’m curious… how much current does the stock starter pull? Don’t have my shop manual at my fingertips right now….

Modern gear reduction starters have no relay or anything in them that I've ever seen. Power is constantly at terminal 30 which has direct connection to the battery at all times. The action of the starter is controlled by the ignition switch sending power to terminals 50 and C. There is perhaps a relay for the ignition but its not on the starter.

Modern gear reduction starters have no relay or anything in them that I've ever seen. Power is constantly at terminal 30 which has direct connection to the battery at all times. The action of the starter is controlled by the ignition switch sending power to terminals 50 and C. There is perhaps a relay for the ignition but its not on the starter.



FourthGenHatch,

Yes I know “modern” gear reduction starters have no “relay” in them. Power is constantly at the main terminal 30.

The previous posts were talking about "adding" a relay so that terminal 30 is NOT hot all the time to decrease the chance of fire due to shorts of main feed cable to starter.

Especially if a circuit breaker was not added as you did in your set-up.


PS: How much current does the starter draw? I see you used a 100amp circuit breaker. How long do you think it will last?

The fuse for the starter is 60AMP stock. The circuit breaker you get has to be at least 60 AMPs, so anything bigger. I just got 100 cuz it seemed like a decent number, it really doesn't matter as long as its bigger than 60.

The fuse for the starter is 60AMP stock. The circuit breaker you get has to be at least 60 AMPs, so anything bigger. I just got 100 cuz it seemed like a decent number, it really doesn't matter as long as its bigger than 60.

FourthGenHatch,

Thanks for the info. Will keep it in mind when I move the battery to the rear. Turbo and or engine swap will require moving it to the rear.

I probably wire it up as you did, just making sure the cable is double sheathed and routed properly and the battery is tied down good. I will probably use one of the BMW 740il cables that I pulled at the junkyard about a month ago as I got them for that very purpose. Cable is big enough to spin over a V-8, and it is sheathed already. Hopefully they will be long enough.

:disappoin

Alan,

Thanks for the clarification on the subject - hopefully you made it understandable for those who didn't understand, as this is the very safest way I know of to relocate the battery. I had a car burn before, and it's trajic. Nowdays, I purely distrust anything that could even with the least possibility start an electrical fire. Something about having a constantly hot, high current power wire ran almost the total length of the car, right next to a body ground all the way, scares the living hell out of me. That's why I suggest relocating the starter relay/solenoid in the back. If this is the case where your cars don't have a relay, i'd definatly add one that triggers when you crank the car, so the wire is only hot going from the battery to the starter when cranking the engine with the key. Of course, now that you have your power wire segregated from the alternator because its on the other side of the solenoid, you will have to add a seperate wire to charge the battery, from the alternator. This, can be fused, unlike it's battery-to-starter counterpart (starters require too much current, the ones that I deal with, anyway) to be fused. I'd suggest a fuseable link to protect the circuit from the alternator to battery. They aren't affected by heat as fuses/circuit breakers can be. Remember, since i'm anal about protection, i'd fuse it close to the alternator, and fuse it close to the battery. If this still isn't understood, i'd refrain from relocating your battery.

Take care