Speakers came today

So my speakers came today. It only took one day which is really cool. But I still don't know if I want to keep both or sell one to my buddy like I was going to do. What do you guys think I should do. I want to keep my truck as a daily driver but I like the bass also. So what should I do?

Also, how do I go about breaking them in? Or do I even need to break them in?

what kind of speakers? How much room do you have? what kind of music do you listen to? How much $$ did you spend on them?

Give us some info, dude, if you want us to respond.

They are 2 12" Kicker L5's. They are brand new, still in the box. I paid about $215 for 2 off E-bay. I have extended cab S-10 so I have about 48" wide, 24" tall, and about 15" deep. Another thing I'm not sure about is if I want to go ported or sealed. In the owners manual it lists both. But I might just have someone on here design me a box. Sorry for not putting any details, I just figured everyone read my other post. But do you guys think 2 will be over kill?

what's overkill???

Those're the square one, eh?

Make a box to those specs, 48x24x15, slot port it down the middle tuned to 15hz, should give you about 3.5-4ft^3 per speaker, should sound badass.

Tune to 15hz.... Holy crap, whats wrong with 32 or 34hz?

That's where I'm gonna need some help. I don't know how to tune it, or what is better or anything about that, or even what tuning a box does. I could just build a huge sealed box and I'm sure those 2 subs would pound, but most people are saying ported is 10 times better than sealed. Who are some of the better guys on here that know what they're doing and design boxes for people? I mean I'm very good with woodworking and all that and as long as there is a diagram I can follow I can build one hell of a box, but I just don't know anything about that part of car audio. Does anyone know of any decent link that explains tuning and all that good stuff, or any guys that design boxes? Thanks.

Tune to 15hz.... Holy crap, whats wrong with 32 or 34hz?
If you tune a box to 34hz, then it plays crappy below that. Tune the box down to just below the fs of the driver, and it plays clean down to that point.

The frequency for that one is 32.2 and the range is 20-100. So I dont know if that helps any.

http://www.soundsplinter.com/rls_series/rls15_inch_LMT_DIY_car_home_subwoofer_information. html
this page has a couple of pretty good graphs that show the difference between ported and sealed. notice how the ported enclosures peak at certain freqs but quickly drop the further from that peak you get and how the sealed enclosure plays much more flat acorss the freq range but doesn't peak the same way the ported does.

If you tune a box to 34hz, then it plays crappy below that. Tune the box down to just below the fs of the driver, and it plays clean down to that point.

No sir it doesn't.

Also, Fs is just the point at which Re is highest in a free-air environment. Also known as free-air resonance.

Also, a ported enclosure will generally maintain SQ to about half an octave below tuning.

Also, a subwoofer will generally be fine (I.E. not bottom out) to about half an octave below tuning in a ported enclosure.

NG

So nsgm do you recommend a ported or sealed box? You design boxes too don't you?

DEFINATELY ported. sealed with L5s is ok... but the sq doesnt improve all that much IMO to sacrifice all that output.

try to get the box at least 2.25 cuber net per driver.. but dont go above 3.5.. matter of fact shoot for between 4.5 and 6 cubes net..

tune the box in the high 30s depending on the music you listen to. my friend and i built a few different boxes for his L5s.. he seemed to stick with the 5 sq. ft @ 36hz box... it sounded pretty decent.. you can tune a little higher if you listen to mostly rock, but try to stay under 40 hz prolly

overkill is gonna be different for everybody.. how much power do you have available? theyre definately loud subs when you get over 1kwrms on them.. i think youll be pleasently surprised by output. if its too much bass then turn it down.

id talk to ng about box plans if you dont really knwo how to do that yourself itll make the building process a lot easier i would assume.

go ported, then you can blow dry your hair in the truck every morning.

give us pics once you have them installed. sounds bad ass!

I will recommend NG's box plans, I have had him design one of mine, and almost had him design atleast 2 others, untill my plans changed...

No sir it doesn't.

Also, Fs is just the point at which Re is highest in a free-air environment. Also known as free-air resonance.

Also, a ported enclosure will generally maintain SQ to about half an octave below tuning.

Also, a subwoofer will generally be fine (I.E. not bottom out) to about half an octave below tuning in a ported enclosure.

NG
I've graphed, built, played, tested, and graphed again, many ported boxes.

I know what Fs is.

I never said anything about losing SQ.

I never said anything about bottoming out either.

15Hz in a vehicle is just killing output, name one song (real song, not techno bass mix) that drops below 20Hz. ill Mail you $1 if you can find one. the only real song i know of that drops near 20Hz is "Dirt Off Your Sholders" and that is in 2 short (15-20sec of the track in total) modulations in the song and its recorded at -4dB if i rememeber right.

Only other even techno bass mix that isnt just like a 10 or 15Hz tone is "Bass I Love You"

Mid 20's is as low as you need to go in car and even that can be over kill.

So what frequency do you commend I tune my box to CB. I do listen to all different type of music and do know that the L5's were mainly for spl and not sq. But what do you think is a decent tuning?

15Hz in a vehicle is just killing output, name one song (real song, not techno bass mix) that drops below 20Hz. ill Mail you $1 if you can find one. the only real song i know of that drops near 20Hz is "Dirt Off Your Sholders" and that is in 2 short (15-20sec of the track in total) modulations in the song and its recorded at -4dB if i rememeber right.

Only other even techno bass mix that isnt just like a 10 or 15Hz tone is "Bass I Love You"

Mid 20's is as low as you need to go in car and even that can be over kill.
Yes, but if your box is tuned to, say, 20hz and your vehicles resonant frequency is 43, your peak will be between the two, so your 20hz tune won't sound all that great. You want to tune it lower, so that when that tune mixes with that of the vehicle, the output peak is closer to where you want it. You usually want the peak to be low low, as those tones are harder to hear and the output levels out about 10hz up from the peak(if built correctly).

I've graphed, built, played, tested, and graphed again, many ported boxes.

I know what Fs is.

I never said anything about losing SQ.

I never said anything about bottoming out either.

1. Graphing on a computer means nothing in a vehicle.

2. Building means nothing if not built properly, or designed properly.

3. Apparently you didn't know what Fs was, or you neglected the definition. Or, more than likely you didn't know it's REAL significance. You tried to incorrectly use the term as a basis for your incorrect assertion.

4. Never said anything about losing SQ? Must I remind you of what you said?
If you tune a box to 34hz, then it plays crappy below that. Tune the box down to just below the fs of the driver, and it plays clean down to that point.
Hmm... interesting...

5. The bottoming out comment was to further educate you.

Thanks.

NG

dang, you mean I can alter the vehicles resonance by tuning a box to like 5 Hz ?

Sonoma, reread my 1st post.
Id say prolly mid 30s will be solid to get a nice mix of sql... lower for more sq higher for more spl.. its pretty simple and it is mostly up to you. if you hate the way it sounds you could always rebuild but low-mid 30s is generally a pretty safe tuning.



FRYMAN.. hoods run down- lil wyte ft. frayser boy. 15 hz.. you can send me a dollar now.

Send me the track so i can look at it in Audacity, or ill see if i can download it...my HPF on my BX1205D wont even let that by... 24 db/Octave at 16Hz i think

He is the biggest Eminem wanna be ive seen to date.

17Hz, still below what i said, PM me your address :)

even though its recorded at -6dB

haha it says 15hz and -4 db for me.. btu your program may be more accurate i suppose.. either way im glad i have that program to have known what songs get that low..

YGPM :)

dang, you mean I can alter the vehicles resonance by tuning a box to like 5 Hz ?

:lol: :screwy: :grinno: :banghead: :icon16: :cwm27: :rofl:

Lol.

NG

Wow, I cannot believe how ignorant you "Audio Gods" are. I didn't say you could alter your vehicles resonant frequency, I said you can put the emphasis on tones BELOW the vehicles resonant frequency.

ngsm, I'm sorry I forgot what I said, since I don't the internet as seriously as most of you. Everything is shitty below tuning, that's why it's called TUNING. Does your car run optimal when it's below tuning? No? Point. When does graphing on a computer via mic in a vehicle mean nothing? Apparently it works great for SPL and SQ competitions.

Further educate me? I'm a lot smarter than you think you are.

No sir it doesn't.

Also, Fs is just the point at which Re is highest in a free-air environment. Also known as free-air resonance.

Also, a ported enclosure will generally maintain SQ to about half an octave below tuning.

Also, a subwoofer will generally be fine (I.E. not bottom out) to about half an octave below tuning in a ported enclosure.

NG

I've graphed, built, played, tested, and graphed again, many ported boxes.

I know what Fs is.

I never said anything about losing SQ.

I never said anything about bottoming out either.

1. Graphing on a computer means nothing in a vehicle.

2. Building means nothing if not built properly, or designed properly.

3. Apparently you didn't know what Fs was, or you neglected the definition. Or, more than likely you didn't know it's REAL significance. You tried to incorrectly use the term as a basis for your incorrect assertion.

4. Never said anything about losing SQ? Must I remind you of what you said?
If you tune a box to 34hz, then it plays crappy below that. Tune the box down to just below the fs of the driver, and it plays clean down to that point.
Hmm... interesting...

5. The bottoming out comment was to further educate you.

Thanks.

NG


That is all.

NG

If you want to tune anywhere under 25Hz in a car, you may as well go sealed.

Anyway, 46x24x14 or so. 2.5 cubes each with a center port. 3/4 MDF and it should sound good.

Anyway, 46x24x14 or so. 2.5 cubes each with a center port. 3/4 MDF and it should sound good.

or any demisions with in those numbers...like 40x30x14 or 46x28x10, etc.

That is all.

NG
You quoted yourself, twice.



As stated on the very first page, before ignorance hijacked the thread:
Make a box to those specs, 48x24x15, slot port it down the middle tuned to 15hz, should give you about 3.5-4ft^3 per speaker, should sound badass.

You quoted yourself, twice.



As stated on the very first page, before ignorance hijacked the thread:


You are an imbicile.

That is all.

NG

You quoted yourself, twice.



As stated on the very first page, before ignorance hijacked the thread:

Ignorance hijacked this thread the moment you posted in it. Intelligent people like ngsm have been trying to set it back straight ;)


For the love of god, baby jesus and all things sacred.....do not tune your enclosure to 15hz as this doucherocket above is suggesting.

I'll put money down that you, Heron, are one of my opposition, or a close friend, seeing as that was your first post on this forum.

"Watch this, I can make another screen name and side with myself."

EDIT- Maybe you, all high-and-mighty-Heron, can explain to me how this, my very first post in this thread, was ignorance.
what kind of speakers? How much room do you have? what kind of music do you listen to? How much $$ did you spend on them?

Give us some info, dude, if you want us to respond.
Ignorance would be answering his question without information. It's like telling someone what year the war ended without knowing what war they are talking about.

Please quit the shit. I asked a simple question, got many answer because everyone has their own OPINION, and thats is fine. Thanks to the people that posts replys but please only reply if you have help, and not if you are going to flame other people. THANKS>

I'll put money down that you, Heron, are one of my opposition, or a close friend, seeing as that was your first post on this forum.

"Watch this, I can make another screen name and side with myself."

Nope. Completely different.

But a member here linked this thread on another forum so that the members there could laugh hysterically at how idiotic you are :rofl:

(which, by the way, all 20,000+ members of that other forum are laughing hysterically at your posts)


EDIT- Maybe you, all high-and-mighty-Heron, can explain to me how this, my very first post in this thread, was ignorance.

Ignorance would be answering his question without information. It's like telling someone what year the war ended without knowing what war they are talking about.

Ignorance is telling him to tune to 15hz :rofl: :rofl:

Though I do apologize...it was your 2nd post in this thread when the ignorance began :iceslolan

Nope. Completely different.

But a member here linked this thread on another forum so that the members there could laugh hysterically at how idiotic you are :rofl:

(which, by the way, all 20,000+ members of that other forum are laughing hysterically at your posts)



Ignorance is telling him to tune to 15hz :rofl: :rofl:

Though I do apologize...it was your 2nd post in this thread when the ignorance began :iceslolan
oohhh, oh no, some forum disagrees with me, whatever will i do.

Oh yeah? I've linked this to SEVERAL other forums, totalling 40k+ members that are all laughing at YOU AND NGSM. So HA! :rofl:

oohhh, oh no, some forum disagrees with me, whatever will i do.
Maybe STFU and actually learn something? Maybe know WTF you are talking about before you try to give advice to someone? Maybe understand the concepts being discussed before you try to disagree with someone?

Oh yeah? I've linked this to SEVERAL other forums, totalling 40k+ members that are all laughing at YOU AND NGSM. So HA! :rofl:
Then I would stop visiting those forums pronto, because they are obviously and ignorant and idiotic as yourself.


(http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/www.lemonparty.org)

Jet-Lee-tard, You are Incorrect. Simple as that.

No sir it doesn't.

Also, Fs is just the point at which Re is highest in a free-air environment. Also known as free-air resonance.

Also, a ported enclosure will generally maintain SQ to about half an octave below tuning.

Also, a subwoofer will generally be fine (I.E. not bottom out) to about half an octave below tuning in a ported enclosure.

NG

I've graphed, built, played, tested, and graphed again, many ported boxes.

I know what Fs is.

I never said anything about losing SQ.

I never said anything about bottoming out either.

1. Graphing on a computer means nothing in a vehicle.

2. Building means nothing if not built properly, or designed properly.

3. Apparently you didn't know what Fs was, or you neglected the definition. Or, more than likely you didn't know it's REAL significance. You tried to incorrectly use the term as a basis for your incorrect assertion.

4. Never said anything about losing SQ? Must I remind you of what you said?
If you tune a box to 34hz, then it plays crappy below that. Tune the box down to just below the fs of the driver, and it plays clean down to that point.
Hmm... interesting...

5. The bottoming out comment was to further educate you.

Thanks.

NG


That is all.

NG

I don't normally use ported boxes for exactly these reasons. The one thing about them I DO know is that any frequency much below the tuning freq of the box will cause the speaker to be essentially unloaded - as if you were just holding the raw speaker up in the air. It won't take much power to destroy the woofer like that.

dang, I didn't even see page 3 before I made my last post ....... maybe I should just delete this thread and we can start over. Becareful guys, if someone reports this thread one or more of you might be banned by the owners.

I think it should be deleted. Some stuff was helpful but it was more arguing and flaming than anything. So delete it away.

I think it should be deleted. Some stuff was helpful but it was more arguing and flaming than anything. So delete it away.

The is no argument. The only thing that exists is a thick skulled individual.

What I have stated is facts, plain and simple. Not one word has been opinion. All are pure factual statements.

That is all.

NG

I dont know where Jet Lee heard that tuning into the infrasonic range was good for car audio but it isnt. it will give you huge audible spikes in the 20-30Hz range instead of in the 30-50Hz range. WIth ANY enclosure yo uare going to have audio spikes in ANY environment save anecho. you are going to have standign waves and wave build up in certianareas acording to that vehicles particular acoustical properties.

If you want as flat as possible it is alwasy best to use sealed in car. Im not going to lie. You can get a pretty flat respince by tuning in the mid to high 20's in most cases (varies from driver to driver) and still have the advantage of the extra SPL ported has over sealed.

Tuning into the range Jet is talking about is used in home theatre only so the driver can safely extened into the infrasonic range where cannons, guns, thuds, crashes, explosions, etc... exist in todays modernt and more advanced recording techniques in movies.

Songs like Andon posted are there simply to makes the drivers move far. and by the way i am "banging" because i can pick up the lows in that next line....lmao

IF you want a pretty flat responce and lots of SPL and you have decent wood working skills give the wicked one a try. Deckwaredesigns.com i think is the website. If you are hesitant i am probably going to put a pair of cheaper audiobahn 10's in one for my GF's car simple because she wants a lil bass in the trunk. Ill let you know how it sounds.

dang, I didn't even see page 3 before I made my last post ....... maybe I should just delete this thread and we can start over. Becareful guys, if someone reports this thread one or more of you might be banned by the owners.

I dont think it should be deleted. Saveing the personal attacks there was a good discussion. If it is reported i dont see banning anyone as the best option. Reprimanding them via PM. But that is just my 0.02 and i have no power here.

as for your unloading comment. 17Hz and my Ava18 just starts to unload, i can still go full bass knob and my amp is still sucking the power form my chargin system. now with the new, larger enclosure im building with a bit more port area unloading may be an issue that low.

Don't forget about cabin gain ;)...

Also...
The is no argument. The only thing that exists is a thick skulled individual.

What I have stated is facts, plain and simple. Not one word has been opinion. All are pure factual statements.

That is all.

NG

That is all.

NG

HAHA ngsm cracks me up, but I def. have to say he is one of the most intellegent audiophile I have seen on these forums. Everything he says is most likey true, can't wait to meet alot of these guys from the forums at a bass meet.

it will give you huge audible spikes in the 20-30Hz range instead of in the 30-50Hz range. WIth ANY enclosure yo uare going to have audio spikes in ANY environment save anecho. you are going to have standign waves and wave build up in certianareas acording to that vehicles particular acoustical properties.
EXACTLY!!!

How well can you hear those 25hz thumps in your truck, because the spike is at 40hz? THAT'S MY POINT! Put the frequency spike LOW to get the spike LOW. Above the spike, everything is smooth plus/minus 1db (when designed correctly). Yes, it's used in home theatre, but that's the other point. Why not utilize the home theatre ideas for our own use in our vehicles???

NGSM, quit quoting yourself, it makes you look lazy and dumb.

Paul, don't delete the thread, just delete the bickering and flaming.

www.decware.com

CB, I'm interested to hear what your Wicked One will sound like. I've had good results pointing the mouth into the cabin, but some say facing it backwards and loading it off the trunk lid/back gives good low end extension. Let me know how it does.

Why not utilize the home theatre ideas for our own use in our vehicles???


For multiple reasons.

First and foremost being that movies and music have completely different subbass bandwidths. Movies may have rumbling down in the 15hz region. But there are VERY few genres of music that contain information down this low. So what you say? Well, by tuning that low....you are effectively making absolutely zero use of the port. It's doing nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Secondly, vehicles have much higher transfer function than a room does. Typically around 12db/oct beginning at around 60-80hz (depending on vehicle, sub placement, etc). Do you know what affect this is going to have, and why it creates another point of difference between car audio and home audio/theater setups?


The fundamental thing to understand here is that home theater and car audio are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, and that certain applications and setup ideas can NOT be transfered freely between the two. They are two completely different realms, two completely different enviornments.....Only the ignorant would attempt to intermingle the two.

Only the ignorant would attempt to intermingle the two.
Whoa..... tell this to every person attempting to get correct imaging and sound quality in their cars.

All principles are the same, you're simply working with a smaller listening room, with poor acoustics.

Whoa..... tell this to every person attempting to get correct imaging and sound quality in their cars.

All principles are the same, you're simply working with a smaller listening room, with poor acoustics.

The goal is the same, the techniques used to achieve such are NOT. That is what I was conveying to you. Obviously this flew directly over your head.

Again, only the ignorant would attemp to intermingle the two and apply home theater setup techniques to car audio.

The goal is the same, the techniques used to achieve such are NOT. That is what I was conveying to you. Obviously this flew directly over your head.

Again, only the ignorant would attemp to intermingle the two and apply home theater setup techniques to car audio.

Numbskulls will always be numbskulls. Always.

NG

Numbskulls will always be numbskulls. Always.

NG

New sig.

j00 likey ?



Oh, by the way Jet...you failed to comment on my last post as to why porting so low does not function the same in a car with music as it does in home theater. You seemed to skip right over the technical issues I presented (which, by the way, isn't even all of them. But I didn't want to overwhelm you right away ;) )

I can't imagine why........

Oh, by the way Jet...you failed to comment on my last post as to why porting so low does not function the same in a car with music as it does in home theater. You seemed to skip right over the technical issues I presented (which, by the way, isn't even all of them. But I didn't want to overwhelm you right away ;) )

I can't imagine why........
Too bad it DOES function the same way. A port is a port is a port, they all function the same(given it's a port and not a horn/tl/aper.). YOU don't notice the tuning frequency because the longer wavelengths don't have the room to expand and develop before reflecting and cancelling themselves out. A large room allows the lower tones to extend, sometimes the full wavelength, before reaching another surface to reflect.

Please explain how the techniques are different. (Notice I don't hide my inquiries amongst paragraphs of flaming.)

Too bad it DOES function the same way. A port is a port is a port, they all function the same(given it's a port and not a horn/tl/aper.). YOU don't notice the tuning frequency because the longer wavelengths don't have the room to expand and develop before reflecting and cancelling themselves out. A large room allows the lower tones to extend, sometimes the full wavelength, before reaching another surface to reflect.

You obviously fail to realize how a port functions. The further you move above the tuning frequency, the less effect the port has. About one octave above the tuning frequency the port is totally ineffective and the subwoofer basically performs as if it were simply in a sealed enclosure. For your suggestion of 15hz, this would mean that beginning at approximately 30hz and higher the port is doing absolutely nothing and the subwoofer is simply performing the same as the subwoofer in a sealed enclosure would. Given the fact that in 99% of music, 99% of the frequency content is from 30hz and up......building a ported enclosure tuned to 15hz is completely and utterly worthless. The port is doing nothing. The system is performing essentially the same a sealed system. And for those few times the musical content is below 30hz, the frequencies are still high enough above tuning that the port is contributing very, very little. If you are going to tune to 15hz, you might as well just go sealed and save yourself the time and effort. Because with music, the port is going to be doing virtually NOTHING.




Please explain how the techniques are different. (Notice I don't hide my inquiries amongst paragraphs of flaming.)

Completely different system requirements. Completely different source material. Completely different enviornments.

For one, a room does not benefit from transfer function nearly as much as in an automotive enviornment. While homes do add some reinforcement to the low end, it's not nearly as much as is seen in a vehicle. Which means that they, in a room, need the added benefits of a low tuning to induce an increase in output in the bottom-most octaves and produce those frequencies at the output level desired. This is not a need in a vehicle, where the transfer function is contributing ~12db/oct in low frequency output. With a sealed enclosure, it is not very hard to obtain a flat frequency response down to 10hz in vehicle. This is nearly impossible to obtain in a home without either massive bass boost in the low end (which would likely induce clipping) or porting tuned to a low frequency to increase the output of the system at those low frequencies.

Also, in home theater, the audio system is reproducing sound effects of a motion picture, which can and normally do drop down to or below 20hz. These systems, obviously then, need good output levels at very low frequencies, and they are relying on the enclosure to produce those output levels since the room's acoustics are contributing very little to the output. However, those very low frequencies are simply hardly ever seen with pure musical content. Orchestra's and classical-type music are one of the very few genre's that have content below 25hz. Heck, most music does not go much below 30hz. And because of this, porting an enclosure that low (15hz, as you suggested) simply is not necessary as it will contribute nothing to the system over the typical range of frequencies being played. That and, as I mentioned, vehicles simply do not need the low-end reinforcement that is required in a home system.

Again, you simply can not attempt to impliment the same techniques used in home theater to car audio. Completely different source material. Completely different enviornments, and completely different system requirements means totally different techniques need to be implimented for desired results.

Numbskulls will always be numbskulls. Always.

NG

That is all.

NG

That is all.

NG

With any luck he will comprehend my last post and actually understand how and why his logic is fundamentally flawed.