V6 performance?

The performance out of Ford's 3.8L standard Mustang engine astonished me! I don't know if it's the weight loss compared to a GT or what? Here is my question. My friend has a 99-04 V6 Mustang. He only has a few mods (cold air intake and a few other minor mods). He doesn't have his rear seat installed either. At our local racing spot, a kid pulled up in his '03 4.6L Mustang GT. I thought the GT would annihilate...but it lost :eek: !!! The GT pulled ahead at first but the V6 caught up shortly and won by the end of our approximate 1/4 mile. The V6 doesn't have a supercharger or NOS. It doesn't have that many mods at all like I mentioned earlier.

How is this possible? I always hear V6 owners preaching how their car can compete with the GT with no problem. I thought they all just had big heads, but I couldn't believe what I saw. Granted, the GT wasn't supercharged...all it had was an exhaust, headers, and underdrive pulleys. This same V6 beat a '91 5.0L LX Mustang with an exhaust and headers. I saw it with my own eyes!!!

Can any V6 owners please tell me of any occurences like this or other cars you have beaten. I have to give the V6 Mustang credit now.

im pretty sure mine would probably get killed by a gt... did he buy the stang used? maybe it has mods you guys dont know about like a nice cam swap, those are good for some pretty decent power on the 3.8. (or 3.9 in 03/04, same engine with slight displacement increase). as far as weight goes, the 3.8 is about 200 or 300lbs lighter, and if he has some weight reduction that could make a good difference.

the 5.0 defeat doesnt surprise me as much if it was stock, seeing how its kinda old, but the 03 gt surprises me. did the guy mess up driving maybe?

what you need to do is tell ur friend to get a turbo :grinyes: the 3.8 is an invincible block, bottom end is the same way. need to replace the rod and pistons if you go over 11 or 12 psi tho.

The previous owner said he left it stock (he was an older gentleman). He only put about 25000 miles on it. I'm almost positive the only mods he added were a cold air intake and some weight reduction (maybe a glasspack muffler but that wouldn't make too big of a difference). I know that losing weight is just as good as gaining horsepower, but I didn't realize how competitive that V6 was compared to the V8.

Is it possible that the V6 Mustang is faster than we all think? Usually the only people I see driving one are middle-aged guys. I don't see too many kids driving them (and kids are the ones who will race them). Maybe it's because I've never seen anybody horse around a V6 before. I never really bashed them but I had no idea of what they could do. I do know that the V6 was a stick...so maybe it's just the manual transmission V6s that are quick.

Has anybody else encountered (or owns) a pretty much stock V6 that runs really well? Let me know.

you are correct on the stick assesment, they are much faster than the autos, same goes for the gt. i have a stock manual v6, but i dont race a whole lot so i dont have much to compare it to. usually from every source ive seen they say the manual v6 runs mid to high 15s, the manual gt runs low 14s. thats a good difference.

one thing thats possible is that the 03 gt was an auto, and the autos eat hp like its paid to in mustangs. being considerably heavier and the v6 having a few mods maybe thats why he won.

My V6 (2000 manual transmission, slightly modded) runs neck and neck with stock GT Mustangs. I have a couple mods, but no supercharger or NOS. However, I can't win against a slightly modded GT, especially if it's a stick. They are fast cars. I don't have any weight reduction. But it is definitely possible that the V6 you saw beat the '03 GT(especially since you said a kid was driving, they are not the best of drivers). However, I am very surprised it beat a 5.0L with those mods. I would put my money on the 5.0L (in this senario).

However, stranger things have been known to happen.

Wow if a near stock v6 can edge out GT's then my bolt-on Escort should be bake to kill one since I beat v6's all day. LOL

I'm saying bad GT driver.

Mildly modded 5spd v6 w/ good driver..maybe low 15's on a good day, more likely mid 15's.
Stock GT (auto) mid-14's, (5spd), low 14's.

Not really a competition.

My V6 (2000 manual transmission, slightly modded) runs neck and neck with stock GT Mustangs. I have a couple mods, but no supercharger or NOS. However, I can't win against a slightly modded GT, especially if it's a stick. They are fast cars. I don't have any weight reduction. But it is definitely possible that the V6 you saw beat the '03 GT(especially since you said a kid was driving, they are not the best of drivers). However, I am very surprised it beat a 5.0L with those mods. I would put my money on the 5.0L (in this senario).

However, stranger things have been known to happen.

the 4.6 has more power than the 5.0, not to mention the 5.0 old and probably had high milage. it shouldnt be any more surprising that he beat a 5.0

Wow if a near stock v6 can edge out GT's then my bolt-on Escort should be bake to kill one since I beat v6's all day. LOL

I'm saying bad GT driver.

Mildly modded 5spd v6 w/ good driver..maybe low 15's on a good day, more likely mid 15's.
Stock GT (auto) mid-14's, (5spd), low 14's.

Not really a competition.

i agree with you, but you have to keep in mind what kind of v6, the manual is much quicker than the auto.

i know youve talked about your escort before, but i forget. did you ever run it at the track. dont worry im not tryin to discredit you... im just curious.

the 4.6 has more power than the 5.0, not to mention the 5.0 old and probably had high milage. it shouldnt be any more surprising that he beat a 5.0

The 5.0L Mustang may only have 225 HP. You are definitely correct, the '03 GT has more horsepower. But the 5.0L had an exhaust and header package. I think with that package the 5.0L would probably win against the '03.

V6Mustang_00 is right. Later that night the 5.0 and the 4.6 raced...the 5.0 won (not by much, but won).

stock 99-04 v6's run mid 15's with a average driver and low 15's with a good driver. a bolt on v6 5-speed should be able to run high 14's. 99-04 gt auto's run mid to high 14's stock and if the driver is shitty enough then maybe it could run low 15's. a fox body with exhaust and headers should run high 14's with a 5 speed and probaly low 15's if its a auto. so its definatly possible

The 5.0L Mustang may only have 225 HP. You are definitely correct, the '03 GT has more horsepower. But the 5.0L had an exhaust and header package. I think with that package the 5.0L would probably win against the '03.

i am aware that those two mods alone do a lot for the 5.0, but you made it sound like the 302 is god so i just had to clarify things.

V6Mustang_00 is right. Later that night the 5.0 and the 4.6 raced...the 5.0 won (not by much, but won). the 99-04 gt driver must of really sucked

i agree with you, but you have to keep in mind what kind of v6, the manual is much quicker than the auto.

i know youve talked about your escort before, but i forget. did you ever run it at the track. dont worry im not tryin to discredit you... im just curious.

I'm not a good driver myself (cant break into the 15's do to the fact im fat and can't launch), but my friend's made a few 15.2-.3 passes in it with the setup in my sig. The only parts on it NOT stock are the wires and pully.

I have no problem admitting im not a good 1/4 driver.

i am aware that those two mods alone do a lot for the 5.0, but you made it sound like the 302 is god so i just had to clarify things.

Sorry I made the 302 sound like God. It definitely wasn't intentional. I am a fan of the 5.0L but I also love the 4.6L. I've just been around cars and racing my whole life. I've seen so many different Mustang set ups (of all years) I can usually tell which car has the edge given the mod list for each car. In this case I was right. The '91 5.0L did in fact take the 4.6L. It just comes from being around Mustang set ups all the time.

I'm not a good driver myself (cant break into the 15's do to the fact im fat and can't launch), but my friend's made a few 15.2-.3 passes in it with the setup in my sig. The only parts on it NOT stock are the wires and pully.

I have no problem admitting im not a good 1/4 driver.

thats cool, i have to admit, that is somewhat surprising. i have no idea if im good at launching or not, cause i hardly ever do it...

thats cool, i have to admit, that is somewhat surprising. i have no idea if im good at launching or not, cause i hardly ever do it... whats your 60' time?

I prefer twisties myself, im planing on getting stiffer springs, new struts, light weight 16's or 17's and replace the 13mm rear sway bar w/ a 21mm when I get the money. it should make fro some fun when taking curves, I can already take some roads at ~60 that my friend is scared to do over ~55 in his 03 Si.

I'm more about handeling 1st, line 2nd..which is why I would really like to get a 94-98 v6(due to the less weight) SC it and give it a FULL suspention job.

but to each his own.

whats your 60' time?

idk, thats what i was getting at.


from what i saw on msn autos the curb weight on the 99-04 and 94-98 v6 stang is basically the same. infact there is a only a 1lb difference. thats just one source though.

i ment vs the GT, i just like the 94-98 for better looks IMO

Alright, this thread has blown my mind. A stock v6 beats a stock 5.0 and a stock 4.6, then the 5.0 beats the 4.6. (Please don't remind me about an exhaust or cai) I'm not calling bs, but this is kinda unreal. I can see a worn out 5.0 getting edged out by a 5 speed v6 under ideal conditions, but the 4.6 is too far. And i feel very certain my GT auto would run better than a high 14s, as earlier mentioned. No one in here would argue that. My buddy owns an 03 v6 5 speed and he's a good driver with a lot of experience, but in no way could he ever beat my car. It's a running joke between us guys about it. We've driven each other's cars and have never thought about racing, because the cars are in 2 different leagues, different trannies or not. From my point of view the gt would have to have been running 80w30 oil, 62 octane, missing pistons, and had his carpet blocking the gas pedal. (which is now why my pedal is in the trunk and i push on a bar) :)

Alright, this thread has blown my mind. A stock v6 beats a stock 5.0 and a stock 4.6, then the 5.0 beats the 4.6. (Please don't remind me about an exhaust or cai) I'm not calling bs, but this is kinda unreal. I can see a worn out 5.0 getting edged out by a 5 speed v6 under ideal conditions, but the 4.6 is too far. And i feel very certain my GT auto would run better than a high 14s, as earlier mentioned. No one in here would argue that. My buddy owns an 03 v6 5 speed and he's a good driver with a lot of experience, but in no way could he ever beat my car. It's a running joke between us guys about it. We've driven each other's cars and have never thought about racing, because the cars are in 2 different leagues, different trannies or not. From my point of view the gt would have to have been running 80w30 oil, 62 octane, missing pistons, and had his carpet blocking the gas pedal. (which is now why my pedal is in the trunk and i push on a bar) :) 99-04 gt auto's are capiable of mid 14's but most drivers run high 14's. just like gt's 5 speeds are capiable of 13.9 most drivers run low to mid 14's. a bolt on 5 speed v6 with a good driver should be able to beat or atleast keep up with a stock auto gt with a shitty driver

Alright, this thread has blown my mind. A stock v6 beats a stock 5.0 and a stock 4.6, then the 5.0 beats the 4.6. (Please don't remind me about an exhaust or cai) I'm not calling bs, but this is kinda unreal. I can see a worn out 5.0 getting edged out by a 5 speed v6 under ideal conditions, but the 4.6 is too far. And i feel very certain my GT auto would run better than a high 14s, as earlier mentioned. No one in here would argue that. My buddy owns an 03 v6 5 speed and he's a good driver with a lot of experience, but in no way could he ever beat my car. It's a running joke between us guys about it. We've driven each other's cars and have never thought about racing, because the cars are in 2 different leagues, different trannies or not. From my point of view the gt would have to have been running 80w30 oil, 62 octane, missing pistons, and had his carpet blocking the gas pedal. (which is now why my pedal is in the trunk and i push on a bar) :)


I am with you. I am not calling the V6's crap at all, but even at 14.7 (a guess in the middle of the upper 14's) a V6 mustang would have to bolt on enough to take off close to a second. That not likely. Maybe slicks would help?

I am with you. I am not calling the V6's crap at all, but even at 14.7 (a guess in the middle of the upper 14's) a V6 mustang would have to bolt on enough to take off close to a second. That not likely. Maybe slicks would help? 99-04 5 speeds run mid 15's with a average driver and low 15's with a good driver

99-04 gt auto's are capiable of mid 14's but most drivers run high 14's. just like gt's 5 speeds are capiable of 13.9 most drivers run low to mid 14's. a bolt on 5 speed v6 with a good driver should be able to beat or atleast keep up with a stock auto gt with a shitty driver

I know exp. is a big factor at the strip and there are tricks to staging, but with an auto, other than controlling wheelspin at the line, all you do is hold down the damn gas. I, myself, would in no way classify a newer auto Gt as a high 14 second car. I don't agree with the last statement, but that aside, this guy made it sound like the 2 cars were =ly modified.

faster_than, do you remember what kind of times these people ran? And please tell me it was a 1/4 track. Just thought about that.

99-04 5 speeds run mid 15's with a average driver and low 15's with a good driver

Not at any tack that I've ever been to, the best ive seen(in person) stock was a 15.3 from an 05

Not at any tack that I've ever been to, the best ive seen(in person) stock was a 15.3 from an 05 you cant judge a cars performance by what you have seen a few people do at the track. if that was the case then 99-04 gt's would probaly be consitered a mid 14 second car. stock 05 v6 auto's have run 15.0

Judgeing by what a car can do under perfect donditions is also misleading, I know of a few drivers that have hit 15.6 in a bone stock ZX2 (book is 15.7, typical driver is 15.9-16.2), and 15.3 in a stock ZX2 S/R (15.5-.7 is more typical).

going by what an average drive can do is a better judge on if you can win the race of not

Judgeing by what a car can do under perfect donditions is also misleading, I know of a few drivers that have hit 15.6 in a bone stock ZX2 (book is 15.7, typical driver is 15.9-16.2), and 15.3 in a stock ZX2 S/R (15.5-.7 is more typical).

going by what an average drive can do is a better judge on if you can win the race of not im just doing the same thing everyone with a GT does. they all say GT's run high 13's. so i dont consiter me giving the times for a good driver and a average driver misleading in any way

joshta- i understand where your coming from, the v6 wasnt stock though he has bolt ons, i know still find it hard. im thinking that maybe its just a factory freak + bolts ons...

Well.....bolt on's are bolt on's and they don't add too much hp. Smaller the motor, the less they add (excluding FI motors). This guy didn't have many and the headers and UDP's the Gt had are the better one's. I don't really know what to blame this accident on, but let me further emphasize that a gt is a much stronger car than the 6er.

All I am saying is that a bolt on 99 V6 isn't really at risk of hitting 14's. You are going to have throw some pretty big cash at the V6 to make it beat the auto GT. I have seen it done (MMFF has articles every other month I would say) but its not cheap or easy. I wasn't even saying that the GT was running a 13.9 stock, that would hardly be typical, but even an ok driven GT running 14.5 is roughly a second faster than a well (not perfect) driven manual V6. Tell me what bolt ons I need to get to take off a whole second because its not that easy. Again I am not making fun or talking down I am only being realistic. If it was cost effective to beat a GT with a V6 than nobody would pay the extra for the GT.

Well.....bolt on's are bolt on's and they don't add too much hp. Smaller the motor, the less they add (excluding FI motors). This guy didn't have many and the headers and UDP's the Gt had are the better one's. I don't really know what to blame this accident on, but let me further emphasize that a gt is a much stronger car than the 6er. who said the v6 didnt have a lot of bolt on's? i have a bolt on 02 v6 auto and im running low 15's

All I am saying is that a bolt on 99 V6 isn't really at risk of hitting 14's. You are going to have throw some pretty big cash at the V6 to make it beat the auto GT. I have seen it done (MMFF has articles every other month I would say) but its not cheap or easy. I wasn't even saying that the GT was running a 13.9 stock, that would hardly be typical, but even an ok driven GT running 14.5 is roughly a second faster than a well (not perfect) driven manual V6. Tell me what bolt ons I need to get to take off a whole second because its not that easy. Again I am not making fun or talking down I am only being realistic. If it was cost effective to beat a GT with a V6 than nobody would pay the extra for the GT. it is more cost effective to buy a v6 and mod it then a GT. i even know someone that owns a cobra that admits that

Not likely. I would like to see a list of mods and cost of purchase and instalation that will eclipse the GT's performance for less than the difference of the two cars (no nitro, it does nothing for the fun of daily driving). There is really only $5000 or so between them when they are new and less than that used. It takes serious cash to take a second or almost 2 in some cases off a quartermile time. Its the same with the GT and the Cobra, its really smarter for me to buy an 03 cobra than modify my car run a high 12. Its done all the time but its really not the best move in my opinion. Again I am not bashing at all but I have looked into all this before I ever bought my car. If I could have made a V6 mustang that would reliably do a 14.0 or faster for noticeably less than the cost of a GT (11000 used a year and a half ago) than I would have seriously considered it.

Not likely. I would like to see a list of mods and cost of purchase and instalation that will eclipse the GT's performance for less than the difference of the two cars (no nitro, it does nothing for the fun of daily driving). There is really only $5000 or so between them when they are new and less than that used. It takes serious cash to take a second or almost 2 in some cases off a quartermile time. Its the same with the GT and the Cobra, its really smarter for me to buy an 03 cobra than modify my car run a high 12. Its done all the time but its really not the best move in my opinion. Again I am not bashing at all but I have looked into all this before I ever bought my car. If I could have made a V6 mustang that would reliably do a 14.0 or faster for noticeably less than the cost of a GT (11000 used a year and a half ago) than I would have seriously considered it. for $2800 you can buy a custom turbo for a v6. add $200 for a t-loc(so you dont break your 7.5" rear end) $200 for exhaust and $200-$300 for a good tune. set it at a safe PSI(around 9) and then upgrade your fuel system for about $500. total price= around $4000 for probaly over 300rwhp. or if you want to take the N/A route then get a stage 3 H/C/I swap for super six motor sports for $2300. kirk on 3.8mustang.com dynoed at 90rwhp through a 4R70W tranny with a bolt on/geared v6. so get t-loc just to be on the safe side and be sure you dont break your rear end(even though you wont). add another $200-$300 for a good tune and $200 for t-loc. total price=$2800 for about 260-270 rwhp. ill keep going with other set up's if you like. and by the way your wrong about cobras being expencive to mod. iv seen bolt on cobra's dyno at alomst 600rwhp

Smaller the motor, the less they add (excluding FI motors).

thats not necessarily true, it really depends on how restrictive the stock parts are.

as far as making the 3.8 powerful and reliable with the extra 5 grand, $3000 bucks for a turbo kit, then forged pistons and rods after that, then find a 8.8 out of a junkyard = being able to run insane boost for not a lot more money

but im not sayin the 6er is better necessarily...

thats not necessarily true, it really depends on how restrictive the stock parts are.

as far as making the 3.8 powerful and reliable with the extra 5 grand, $3000 bucks for a turbo kit, then forged pistons and rods after that, then find a 8.8 out of a junkyard = being able to run insane boost for not a lot more money

but im not sayin the 6er is better necessarily... you dont need forged internals unless you plan on running around 13 lbs of higher. and a 7.5 rear end with t-loc is good for about 10 lbs.

you dont need forged internals unless you plan on running around 13 lbs of higher. and a 7.5 rear end with t-loc is good for about 10 lbs.

ok, insane boost is not 10lbs... im talkin about pushin out 500+rwhp.

im not retarded.

ok, insane boost is not 10lbs... im talkin about pushin out 500+rwhp.

im not retarded. you said you should get forged internals and a 8.8 rear end and i was simply stating you dont need to upgrade your rear end unless you go above 10 PSI. you also forgot about the tranny not T-5 or 4R70W is gonna hold 500+rwhp so you should get a C4. and your not gonna be able to run 500+rwhp with just a stock 8.8 rear end your gonna need to build it up with a girdle and shit

C4 :rolleyes:

yeah ill put the most inefficient tranny possible in it...

a T-5 will hold up if you know how to drive it, but yeah it would probably be a good idea to get a new tranny eventually, but thats not a necessary part. thats why i didnt mention it. a few slight changes and the 8.8 will hold it though, and considering a 7.5 will never hold that power and a 9" really doesnt fit well on a sn95, the 8.8 is what you need.

Neato, he said the guy only had a few mods (cai) in the first post.

Generally, the closer to factory you can keep a vehicle, the better it will hold up mechanically. We all know this is true, so there's no need to pick it apart. Sure you can modify a v6 to be like a v8, but you can mod the v8 even easier and yeild more gains. Potential is the underlying issue for me. At the end of the day, if someone offers me a 260hp gt or a 260hp modded v6, I'm gonna buy the gt even if it's more expensive. Resale will be better, sounds better, probably hold up better, more mod potential, and you won't be counting the horsepower before you need internal work right away.

Neato, he said the guy only had a few mods (cai) in the first post.

Generally, the closer to factory you can keep a vehicle, the better it will hold up mechanically. We all know this is true, so there's no need to pick it apart. Sure you can modify a v6 to be like a v8, but you can mod the v8 even easier and yeild more gains. Potential is the underlying issue for me. At the end of the day, if someone offers me a 260hp gt or a 260hp modded v6, I'm gonna buy the gt even if it's more expensive. Resale will be better, sounds better, probably hold up better, more mod potential, and you won't be counting the horsepower before you need internal work right away. of course you will have more potential with a v8 but to me it isent worth 5-6k to get the v8 to get a little more potential and a extra 65 hp when i can make a lot more then that with my v6 for less then half the price. i can even get a forged 4.3 crate motor for 5k that will drop into my car that puts out more then 550 hp. but some people will pay the extra money to have a v8 witch im fine with i just cant stand it when GT/v8 assholes always put down v6's when they know nothing about them(im not talking about you) and as for the v6 the thread starter was talking about he said he had a CAI and a few other things(basicly a bolt on v6) and iv seen many bolt on v6's run high 14's. iv also seen a lot of 99-04 stock gt auto's run high 14's and some even managed to fuck up enough to run low 15's(shitty launch)

yeah it sounds like it was probably had a lot to do with drivers, neato has obviously been to the track some and seen this stuff for himself...

I am not convinced that you could beat the GT's performance for less than the difference of prices. Your price quotes only accounted for parts. Labor will put you way over and you still will be stuck with having to replace other parts that aren't as strong as the GT's come stock (clutch, trans, rear). Its cheaper to buy a V6 stang but not cheaper to beat a GT (of comparable year) with a V6. Like I said with some work a V6 stang can beat a GT, that has been proven and I wouldn't even argue that but its in no way a bargain.

I am not convinced that you could beat the GT's performance for less than the difference of prices. Your price quotes only accounted for parts. Labor will put you way over and you still will be stuck with having to replace other parts that aren't as strong as the GT's come stock (clutch, trans, rear). Its cheaper to buy a V6 stang but not cheaper to beat a GT (of comparable year) with a V6. Like I said with some work a V6 stang can beat a GT, that has been proven and I wouldn't even argue that but its in no way a bargain.

heh well i do work myself usually, but i agree with you. you are right, but i still think itd be cool to have a turbo v6... no one would expect it

I am not convinced that you could beat the GT's performance for less than the difference of prices. Your price quotes only accounted for parts. Labor will put you way over and you still will be stuck with having to replace other parts that aren't as strong as the GT's come stock (clutch, trans, rear). Its cheaper to buy a V6 stang but not cheaper to beat a GT (of comparable year) with a V6. Like I said with some work a V6 stang can beat a GT, that has been proven and I wouldn't even argue that but its in no way a bargain. labor? about 10%(if that) of people that do those mods take there car into a shop or whatever and dont install it themselves. do you serously think that doing a H/C/I swap is going to break a 7.5" rear end with t-loc? or a T-5? or even a 4R70W? they can all handle over 300rwhp and a T-5's can handle a lot more. i also said the turbo would only be at about 9 PSI, and with a safe tune and t-loc you wont break anything. you my friend need to do a lot more v6 research before you start bashing them

heh well i do work myself usually, but i agree with you. you are right, but i still think itd be cool to have a turbo v6... no one would expect it

I just don't see your average guy installing a turbo setup them selves and the rear isn't really a do it yourself job. I do bolt ons an things like that myself but that really wasn't the labor part I was talking about. And yes I agree a turbo v6 is modern, it is like a modern ford grand national haha.

I just don't see your average guy installing a turbo setup them selves and the rear isn't really a do it yourself job. I do bolt ons an things like that myself but that really wasn't the labor part I was talking about. And yes I agree a turbo v6 is modern, it is like a modern ford grand national haha. i personaly probaly couldent install a rear end/turbo by myself. but i have atleast 3 people(that i trust) that are willing to help me install it. witch is what most people end up doing. and what do you mean thats not that labor part you are talking about?

10%? what shop are you going to, the rear install is going to be at least 200% labor I was looking at gears and they were 150 parts and I was looking at between 600-800 for the whole job. And the T loc will only help traction, the rear is still only as strong as it is. In fact you may even encounter higher stress on the rear because both tires will be gripping and thus putting more force on the ring and pinon. I have seen many a T-5 get blown on 300 HP as well, I am not saying it is for certain but its definately pusing what the machine was desined to handle. Also I don't think a H/C/I is going to break anything, but then again you aren't even going to be within half a second of your closest target goal. Now I haven't bashed at all, I really don't know how more nicely I can write it and still express my own opinion. Also, don't talk to me like I don't know anything because I am not in the V6 crowd. Labor is still the same and everyone is aware of the price of parts. I can agree that a fast V6 is cool and even unexpected, I wouldn't talk down on what someone has done to a car to make is faster, but trying to sell it as some kind of bargain on performance is just plain false. If you have ever done serious work to a car (such as installing a turbo on a non turbo car) than you will certainly realize that there are alot more parts that go onto something than just the part you initially intend to add. If you can do that kind of work yourself thats awesome, more power to you, but for the vast majority of the people in here installing a turbo themselves really isn't an option, and if all you have is 10% for labor than I am afraid you are screwed right in the pooper. I am not a certified mechanic, but I have done tons of repairs/upgrades and payed tons of people to do repairs and upgrades, either way you always spend more than you thought you would, particularly when you pay someone else to do it. But hey, if you come out with a V6 that will take a GT I will certainly give you my thumbs up, but if that happens rest assured you will have spent enough money between mods and car to equal the GT if you get lucky. I would say you would more likely go over than under in any case.

i personaly probaly couldent install a rear end/turbo by myself. but i have atleast 3 people(that i trust) that are willing to help me install it. witch is what most people end up doing. and what do you mean thats not that labor part you are talking about?

I meant that I wasn't even counting labor for bolt ons, most people can do them theirselves.

Well, i do happen to know a little about em. I just recently sold my 99 v6, which i owned for 2 years and had a few bolt-on's on.

10%? what shop are you going to, the rear install is going to be at least 200% labor I was looking at gears and they were 150 parts and I was looking at between 600-800 for the whole job. And the T loc will only help traction, the rear is still only as strong as it is. In fact you may even encounter higher stress on the rear because both tires will be gripping and thus putting more force on the ring and pinon. I have seen many a T-5 get blown on 300 HP as well, I am not saying it is for certain but its definately pusing what the machine was desined to handle. Also I don't think a H/C/I is going to break anything, but then again you aren't even going to be within half a second of your closest target goal. Now I haven't bashed at all, I really don't know how more nicely I can write it and still express my own opinion. Also, don't talk to me like I don't know anything because I am not in the V6 crowd. Labor is still the same and everyone is aware of the price of parts. I can agree that a fast V6 is cool and even unexpected, I wouldn't talk down on what someone has done to a car to make is faster, but trying to sell it as some kind of bargain on performance is just plain false. If you have ever done serious work to a car (such as installing a turbo on a non turbo car) than you will certainly realize that there are alot more parts that go onto something than just the part you initially intend to add. If you can do that kind of work yourself thats awesome, more power to you, but for the vast majority of the people in here installing a turbo themselves really isn't an option, and if all you have is 10% for labor than I am afraid you are screwed right in the pooper. I am not a certified mechanic, but I have done tons of repairs/upgrades and payed tons of people to do repairs and upgrades, either way you always spend more than you thought you would, particularly when you pay someone else to do it. But hey, if you come out with a V6 that will take a GT I will certainly give you my thumbs up, but if that happens rest assured you will have spent enough money between mods and car to equal the GT if you get lucky. I would say you would more likely go over than under in any case. first off when i said 10% i was saying about 10% of people that get those upgrades take it to a shop to install, not that thats how much it cost. second you shouldent be paying more then $300-400 for a gear install. and t-loc will make the rear end handle more hp by closing the differential and sending traction to both wheels, thus not putting all the power to one wheel. next, a stage 3 H/C/I packages on a stock motor will add about 90 hp, like iv stated before kirk at 3.8mustang.com has a bolt on/geared v6 with a 4R70W and dynoed at 90rwhp. so obvously that will make a v6 a lot faster then any stock GT

edit- why would you even get a 8.8 rear end for a H/C/I?

Last post wasn't thrown at you BlackGT, just responding on the last page. You people post too fast.

I just don't see your average guy installing a turbo setup them selves and the rear isn't really a do it yourself job. I do bolt ons an things like that myself but that really wasn't the labor part I was talking about. And yes I agree a turbo v6 is modern, it is like a modern ford grand national haha.

yeah average guy probably wouldnt do that stuff himself, but in my case, i have done a turbo install and know what goes into it, idk about the rear end tho i cant say ive done that before. you are right from one of your other posts, you never know everything your gonna need when you do a turbo install.

as far as a T-5 getting blown at 300hp, yep it happens which is why a new tranny would probably be a good thing to get in the future, but theyve also been known to hold a lot more hp depending on whos driving it. so it should last for atleast a lil while. i believe it was MM&FF, one the writers was commenting on how hes seen people running 14s ruin a T-5, but people running 11s use them for years.

yeah average guy probably wouldnt do that stuff himself, but in my case, i have done a turbo install and know what goes into it, idk about the rear end tho i cant say ive done that before. you are right from one of your other posts, you never know everything your gonna need when you do a turbo install.

as far as a T-5 getting blown at 300hp, yep it happens which is why a new tranny would probably be a good thing to get in the future, but theyve also been known to hold a lot more hp depending on whos driving it. so it should last for atleast a lil while. i believe it was MM&FF, one the writers was commenting on how hes seen people running 14s ruin a T-5, but people running 11s use them for years.

Oh yeah I know there have been t-5s that have held more power than expected (heck they have been in the 5.0 for years)but they really aren't rated for it and its certainly working on borrowed time. Glad you understand about the parts list adding up when you start modifying.

I would say that its the other way around as far as serious modifications go, most people do not do them theirselves. Like I said already, its awesome if you can but most people will not be able to tackle a turbo on their own. I would love to see a H/C/I that adds 90rwhp on its own. I will eat my words if thats true, but thats way too far fetched a number to see from just intake and exhaust. What is stage 3? Is that a company? I never see parts labeled as that in a catelog (other than SRT4's). And about the T-Loc, it will make both tires spin but I see no way it would add to the structural integrity of your rear. I could add the best eaton posi loc on the market to my car but its still going to be an 8.8, it will still hold x ammount of power before the teeth and everything take a crap. And as for your assessment on 400 dollars for the instalation cost of the rear end gears, you are correct, its 150 for the gears and than another 40 or something for the gaskets and other crap in this kit....than 400 for the labor, thats about 200%labor.

Last post wasn't thrown at you BlackGT, just responding on the last page. You people post too fast.
Haha no problem, they are stacking up fast aren't they.

I would say that its the other way around as far as serious modifications go, most people do not do them theirselves. Like I said already, its awesome if you can but most people will not be able to tackle a turbo on their own. I would love to see a H/C/I that adds 90rwhp on its own. I will eat my words if thats true, but thats way too far fetched a number to see from just intake and exhaust. What is stage 3? Is that a company? I never see parts labeled as that in a catelog (other than SRT4's). And about the T-Loc, it will make both tires spin but I see no way it would add to the structural integrity of your rear. I could add the best eaton posi loc on the market to my car but its still going to be an 8.8, it will still hold x ammount of power before the teeth and everything take a crap. And as for your assessment on 400 dollars for the instalation cost of the rear end gears, you are correct, its 150 for the gears and than another 40 or something for the gaskets and other crap in this kit....than 400 for the labor,thats about 200%labor. the stage 3 H/C/I is at supersixmotorsports and its basicly just the best H/C/I you can get for v6's(super heads and a more aggresive cam). its pretty much a fact(in the v6 world) that a 7.5" rear end with a closed differential will handle 300+rwhp because it sends power to both of the wheels instead of just putting all the preasure on one

the stage 3 H/C/I is at supersixmotorsports and its basicly just the best H/C/I you can get for v6's(super heads and a more aggresive cam). its pretty much a fact(in the v6 world) that a 7.5" rear end with a closed differential will handle 300+rwhp because it sends power to both of the wheels instead of just putting all the preasure on one

I thought by H you meant Headers not heads, at that point you are spending a few thousand in parts anyway just on the motor leaving very little for other parts elsewhere and labor cost. I could see 90 with heads though. Remember at 5000 I draw a line where its no longer a bargain at all because you have essentially reached the cost of a GT. I am not doubting that there are 7.5 inch rears with 300 through them, but its kind of in the same boat as the T5. Haha I know that the Tloc will put power to both wheels, thats what it does, but I don't see how that will make the rear end any stronger, although the open diff is not very good for drag racing its really not the weak point in the rear end for braking. I would say that a Tloc would be a good mod to have because you could accelerate harder, but I don't think that it will actually help prevent you from busting the ring and pinon (I would guess it was actuall harder on the rear end, just as running slicks is harder on it) I mean that power is going somewhere if its not spinning the tires.