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honda troll
02-01-2006, 10:05 AM
The weather has been "nice" for Wisconsin this time of year. (unfortunately, this means I expect we'll get snow late in May. don't laugh, it's happened) The nice weather is an aphrodisiac for the racing mood.

I'm on my way home, top down (hehe) and I come across a porsche boxster S. I have not raced one of these in quite some time. Unfortunately, we are in a heavier traffic area, and I'm unsure we'll get a chance to run. Meandering through traffic, we eventually negotiate our way to the front of a "pack" with some space to move. I immediately step out to the side and move up next to him. He takes off almost immediately without any warning.

I slam it to 4th (we're going 70mph) and he stays even with me for a few seconds. He shifts gears and I start to walk. Going to 5th I'm still walking away, and by 115mph I have maybe 4 cars on him. I hit the brakes, and he moves up next to me again. His girlfriend waves and he gives a thumbs up and moves on his way. :)

Later that evening I'm making a taco bell run, and have just pulled out with my tasty crunchwrap supreme. I'm making a left, as traffic is just leaving the light coming my way from the right. Apparently there was an RSX-S that did not like me pulling out in front of him (even though there was plenty of room) and he zips by me on the right. The next light turns red, and I find myself next to him (he has a passenger). He rolls his window down, and the conversation goes:

Him: waht up S2000
Me: just gettin taco bell
Him: coo coo, you wanna run? i aint lost to an S2 yet.
Me: there's a first time for everything right?
Him: well I beat a turbo'd one owned by a guy i know. all i got is i/rh/e and hondata modz. (note, added "z" for effect)
Me: oh well then.
Him: punch it from 10, cuz I cant launch my car cuz of the tires.
Me: sure ok.

(I didn't have time to argue as the light was about to turn) We roll out, and he jumps on the gas almost immediately (10mph my ass). I mash the gas, and through 1st gear he's almost even with me. Into 2nd, and I start to pull pretty hard. By end of 2nd I have about 2 cars on him. Into 3rd, and I put another 2 cars on him. I shift to 4th and shut down at about 100 with about 6-7 cars on him. fun fun. He never drove by me after that, but I imagine the look on his face. ;)

The last encounter I had involved a dodge stratus with a big wing, a side-outlet exhaust pipe (which was fake by the way, cuz his stock exhaust was still on the car :rolleyes: ), and a really fat ugly girlfriend in the passenger seat. But that's another story for another day. ;)

Drifty
02-01-2006, 10:25 AM
You see what happen was "You were Good to go" He wasn't

clawhammer
02-01-2006, 10:56 AM
nice kill for the s.

GForce957
02-01-2006, 11:00 AM
You see what happen was "You were Good to go" He wasn't

hahah

rice(er)
02-01-2006, 11:08 AM
you make me wanna visit mil town, i have a cuzzin down there, i'll have to go visit her sometimes, i also got some cuzzins down in green bay and manitowac, if i ever go down there, i'm gonna have to visit mil town,..btw, how old r u? u got all these kids revving at u.....

honda troll
02-01-2006, 11:13 AM
You see what happen was "You were Good to go" He wasn't
i have no idea what you're talking about. ???

you make me wanna visit mil town, i have a cuzzin down there, i'll have to go visit her sometimes, i also got some cuzzins down in green bay and manitowac, if i ever go down there, i'm gonna have to visit mil town,..btw, how old r u? u got all these kids revving at u.....
Lotsa rice and ricers around here. Unfortunately wisconsin isn't a big "mod" state. And honestly, if you have any kind of decent car, or something you've modded nicely, you can't leave your house without being revved on. I'm 26, though I don't look that old. ;)

123212321
02-01-2006, 11:45 AM
Racing AND eating taco bell at the same time - I wish I had your talents

When I chomp into a crunchwrap supreme, 100% of my focus is designated to the task at hand.

Drifty
02-01-2006, 11:49 AM
[QUOTE=honda troll]i have no idea what you're talking about. ???[QUOTE]

Have you Not seen the New Taco bell commercial's with the nerd talking about the crunch wrap supreme? "it's Good to Go!"

Come on man!

honda troll
02-01-2006, 12:36 PM
Have you Not seen the New Taco bell commercial's with the nerd talking about the crunch wrap supreme? "it's Good to Go!"

Come on man!
OMGWTFBBQ i'm so retarded. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Slowprocess
02-01-2006, 02:01 PM
:worshippy

RACER D12
02-01-2006, 02:06 PM
Nice kills. Hit us up with some pics and vids

TatII
02-01-2006, 02:52 PM
that kid with the RSX-S is talkin out of his ass. with those mods he should be putting down like 220whp. but good kill, and yeah man i surprised you didn't realize the " your good to go " slogan for the crunch wrap supreme.

TheStang00
02-01-2006, 03:02 PM
OMGWTFBBQ i'm so retarded. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

:rofl:

i got a kick outa that.

so i guess your s2k is faster than turbo ones... :icon16:



jk...

honda troll
02-01-2006, 04:32 PM
that kid with the RSX-S is talkin out of his ass. with those mods he should be putting down like 220whp. but good kill, and yeah man i surprised you didn't realize the " your good to go " slogan for the crunch wrap supreme.
he did about as well as he should have for a car with his mods. with i/rh/e and hondata, the type S will stay even, and even slightly pull a stock S2000 in the same situation.

however, in the same situation, i can put 6-7 cars on a stock S2000. :)

:rofl:

i got a kick outa that.

so i guess your s2k is faster than turbo ones... :icon16:



jk...i know turbos suck. NA yo!!! mad vtak.

209 SRT
02-01-2006, 05:36 PM
:worshippy

:puke: ................:lol:

209 SRT
02-01-2006, 05:39 PM
he did about as well as he should have for a car with his mods. with i/rh/e and hondata, the type S will stay even, and even slightly pull a stock S2000 in the same situation.

however, in the same situation, i can put 6-7 cars on a stock S2000. :)

i know turbos suck. NA yo!!! mad vtak.

what MOD do you have......or mods that can put 6-7cars on a stock s2000..
and remember I/H/E dont mean didly on a s2000..............:nono: .......

TatII
02-01-2006, 06:38 PM
he was referring to the driver. that hes beaten a bad driver by 5-6 cars, so the driver for the RSX could be poop too.

honda troll
02-01-2006, 06:59 PM
what MOD do you have......or mods that can put 6-7cars on a stock s2000..
and remember I/H/E dont mean didly on a s2000..............:nono: .......

he was referring to the driver. that hes beaten a bad driver by 5-6 cars, so the driver for the RSX could be poop too.lol no, i can beat a stock S2000 driven by anyone by 5-6 cars. doesn't matter how good the driver is. ;) the BEST drivers stay within about 5 cars of me.

and to answer 209 SRT, I have i/e (which means diddly) and 4.57 final drive gear. that's a huge mod for an S2000. same as putting something like 3.73 or 4.10 in a mustang. here's a wee little video of what kind of difference it makes. ;)

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wOTI0NDE2NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D

209 SRT
02-01-2006, 07:56 PM
how well do those gears do on the highway.......cause 4.10 on a v8 is good in the 1/4 but at higher speeds it just doesnt keep the speed up.........as well

honda troll
02-01-2006, 08:13 PM
how well do those gears do on the highway.......cause 4.10 on a v8 is good in the 1/4 but at higher speeds it just doesnt keep the speed up.........as well
a common misconception is that gears will make a car slower at freeway speeds. this really isn't true. it WILL lower the actual top speed (mechanical limitation) of the car.

the difference gearing offers is still apparent at freeway speeds, it's just not as big as an advantage if one were to start at a lower speed.

for example, from 0-100 i'll pull 6 cars no problem. but from 80-120 i'll pull about 2 cars.

make sense?

youngvr4
02-01-2006, 08:52 PM
gearing does matter on freeway runs. if you shift twice within 85mph to 125mph and i shift once, depending on how quick you are and i am, you've lost time.
or, i can stay in peak power point longer than you might because of your gearing. its not a misconseption, maybe a little overated, but gearing does have an effect on "a highway run" just as it will on the strip

honda troll
02-01-2006, 11:26 PM
gearing does matter on freeway runs. if you shift twice within 85mph to 125mph and i shift once, depending on how quick you are and i am, you've lost time.
or, i can stay in peak power point longer than you might because of your gearing. its not a misconseption, maybe a little overated, but gearing does have an effect on "a highway run" just as it will on the strip
gearing has an effect on 2 things. A. it allows you to better use the power band (so no, you're not actually staying in the power band longer than a geared car). and B. it increases the amount of force that is driving the car. (this is a simplified explination)

for example. on a 60-115mph run, my geared S2000 has to shift twice. once at 80 and once at 105. a stock S2000 only has to shift once, at 90mph.

however, my car is still faster. why? because i spend more time in my power band, and I make better use of the power being made. I may lose a few tenths with the extra shift, but the gears moer than make up for it, allowing me to continue to be faster. (and yes I have done this actual scenario before)

ask anyone who actually OWNS a car that has stepped up 1 or 2 levels of more aggressive final drive, and I gaurantee you they will tell you the exact same thing.

only unless you're STARTING the race at really high speeds, for example above 100-110 mph, will it be about the same. but if you start before that, the geared car will pull all the way to top speed.

getting back to the force being applied that moves the car forward, the simple explination is this. let's take a stock S2000 let's say at the point where it makes 140lb/ft of torque at the wheels. now a stock car's gearing vs my gearing.

1st gear ratio is 3.133. primary reduction is 1.16. final drive is 4.10. 3.133*1.16*4.10 =14.9 final ratio.
14.9 * 140lb/ft is effectively 2086.

now my car 1st gear 3.133, primary reduction 1.16, final drive 4.57. 3.133*1.16*4.57 = 16.61.
16.61 * 140 = 2325.

2325 > 2086. again this is very simplified to show you an example of how the gearing affect's the car's acceleration and power. but you understand my point.

it is a misconception that a geared car is slower at freeway speeds than it's stock counterpart. this theory has not only been proven in other makes and models of cars, but also in my own thorough testing. i've raced stock S2k's over and over and over starting at as high as 85mph rolls, and I always pull. starting at a higher speed, the difference may not be as great as down low, but I still pull convincingly.

209 SRT
02-02-2006, 12:36 AM
shorter gears......
longer gears........

I tell you what I much rather be in 4-5th gear at the end of the track pole than to be in 3rd...............lol

Slowprocess
02-02-2006, 08:32 AM
:puke: ................:lol:

Seems to be the only acceptable smilie with the other members on the board when troll posts. You don't want to know how I really feel....... :grinno:

honda troll
02-02-2006, 08:47 AM
Seems to be the only acceptable smilie with the other members on the board when troll posts. You don't want to know how I really feel....... :grinno:
kiss my ass. :eek: :lol: there is no love lost. :iceslolan

xAUTOxRACERx
02-02-2006, 09:45 AM
Okay let me see you beat a "s" and modded rsx-s.

My question in turn would be: What do you have in your s2k? Also I could see why you say intake and headers don't do nothing for the s2k. I assume that you just did a butt dyno and not a real dyno....right?

xAUTOxRACERx
02-02-2006, 09:48 AM
what MOD do you have......or mods that can put 6-7cars on a stock s2000..
and remember I/H/E dont mean didly on a s2000..............:nono: .......


Yeap! I remeber that statement from somewhere. He must have nawz!:rofl:

Sleepr awd
02-02-2006, 09:59 AM
good kill!!

i wanna see some eclipse turbo kills though :D ;)

honda troll
02-02-2006, 01:30 PM
Okay let me see you beat a "s" and modded rsx-s.

My question in turn would be: What do you have in your s2k? Also I could see why you say intake and headers don't do nothing for the s2k. I assume that you just did a butt dyno and not a real dyno....right?
i already answered this question in this thread. ;) just scroll up:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=3785360&postcount=18

and on a dyno, i/h/e on an S2k will give you MAYBE 5-10whp if you're really f'in lucky. the S2000's n/a hinderance is the ECU. get an aftermarket ECU or VAFC along with your i/h/e and gains of nearly 40whp can be realized.

xAUTOxRACERx
02-02-2006, 05:01 PM
i already answered this question in this thread. ;) just scroll up:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=3785360&postcount=18

and on a dyno, i/h/e on an S2k will give you MAYBE 5-10whp if you're really f'in lucky. the S2000's n/a hinderance is the ECU. get an aftermarket ECU or VAFC along with your i/h/e and gains of nearly 40whp can be realized.

Man those s2k's suck when it comes to modding. I guess it has alot of restriction? :dunno: Yeah I know about the diffs they benefit alot. What was the original ratio on yours?

honda troll
02-02-2006, 05:17 PM
Man those s2k's suck when it comes to modding. I guess it has alot of restriction? :dunno: Yeah I know about the diffs they benefit alot. What was the original ratio on yours?

original ratio is 4.10

youngvr4
02-02-2006, 08:47 PM
gearing has an effect on 2 things. A. it allows you to better use the power band (so no, you're not actually staying in the power band longer than a geared car). and B. it increases the amount of force that is driving the car. (this is a simplified explination)

for example. on a 60-115mph run, my geared S2000 has to shift twice. once at 80 and once at 105. a stock S2000 only has to shift once, at 90mph.

however, my car is still faster. why? because i spend more time in my power band, and I make better use of the power being made. I may lose a few tenths with the extra shift, but the gears moer than make up for it, allowing me to continue to be faster. (and yes I have done this actual scenario before)

ask anyone who actually OWNS a car that has stepped up 1 or 2 levels of more aggressive final drive, and I gaurantee you they will tell you the exact same thing.

only unless you're STARTING the race at really high speeds, for example above 100-110 mph, will it be about the same. but if you start before that, the geared car will pull all the way to top speed.

getting back to the force being applied that moves the car forward, the simple explination is this. let's take a stock S2000 let's say at the point where it makes 140lb/ft of torque at the wheels. now a stock car's gearing vs my gearing.

1st gear ratio is 3.133. primary reduction is 1.16. final drive is 4.10. 3.133*1.16*4.10 =14.9 final ratio.
14.9 * 140lb/ft is effectively 2086.

now my car 1st gear 3.133, primary reduction 1.16, final drive 4.57. 3.133*1.16*4.57 = 16.61.
16.61 * 140 = 2325.

2325 > 2086. again this is very simplified to show you an example of how the gearing affect's the car's acceleration and power. but you understand my point.

it is a misconception that a geared car is slower at freeway speeds than it's stock counterpart. this theory has not only been proven in other makes and models of cars, but also in my own thorough testing. i've raced stock S2k's over and over and over starting at as high as 85mph rolls, and I always pull. starting at a higher speed, the difference may not be as great as down low, but I still pull convincingly.

makes sense!! but could you explain the reaon of the sti and evo-8 bieng much slower on a highspeed roll, then from a lets say 10mph roll? is it aero, or its gears?

and the math makes sense, but i'm still curious....

not saying your wrong or i dont beleive you, cause again you make sense(perfect sense), but

you say your in your power band more? but if S20001 is from 7-8500rpms for 4 seconds
and S20002 is at 7-8500rpms for 1.5 seconds, then shifts into a lower power band and has to wait for the tach to go from 5-7....and while this is going on S20001 is still in its power band with no delay of shifting... how then is S20002 making better use of its power band?

better yet, does this work with every vehicle?
and wouldnt it matter were the power band was at?

TheStang00
02-02-2006, 11:53 PM
makes sense!! but could you explain the reaon of the sti and evo-8 bieng much slower on a highspeed roll, then from a lets say 10mph roll? is it aero, or its gears?

and the math makes sense, but i'm still curious....

not saying your wrong or i dont beleive you, cause again you make sense(perfect sense), but

you say your in your power band more? but if S20001 is from 7-8500rpms for 4 seconds
and S20002 is at 7-8500rpms for 1.5 seconds, then shifts into a lower power band and has to wait for the tach to go from 5-7....and while this is going on S20001 is still in its power band with no delay of shifting... how then is S20002 making better use of its power band?

better yet, does this work with every vehicle?
and wouldnt it matter were the power band was at?

i believe that the steeper gears are also closer, which means the rpms would stay higher when you shift up than in the stock car. even if thats not the case, with the steeper gears you would accelerate back into high rpms faster.

209 SRT
02-03-2006, 01:37 AM
I do believe that gears do help his car out alot..........but not every ones......
the s2000 is a rever and needs to be pretty high to get in its power band and create a significant amount of torque.......but on some cars such as.....lets see......mine.......my max torque starts pretty low and doesnt need to be reved high to get it.....cause if I do it just drops off alittle before redline anyways........

honda troll
02-03-2006, 10:34 AM
makes sense!! but could you explain the reaon of the sti and evo-8 bieng much slower on a highspeed roll, then from a lets say 10mph roll? is it aero, or its gears?

and the math makes sense, but i'm still curious...."being much slower" is more of a misnomer. think of the EVO and STi as roughly "mid 13" second cars. however, they have an advantage of an AWD launch, which allows them to run a faster ET than your normal RWD/FWD mid 13 second car. a good example is the WRX. While it's capable of running about a 14 flat stock, it traps lower than a FWD/RWD car that runs the same.

the AWD launch is an advantage available to them down low. but beyond that, the advantage is removed and they accelerate like a normal "mid 13" second car or so.

many like to blame this on the AWD since it generally means more drivetrain loss than a FWD/RWD car. however, this is irrelevant, since the car is going to accelerate the same regardless. they're just using the power differently.


not saying your wrong or i dont beleive you, cause again you make sense(perfect sense), but

you say your in your power band more? but if S20001 is from 7-8500rpms for 4 seconds
and S20002 is at 7-8500rpms for 1.5 seconds, then shifts into a lower power band and has to wait for the tach to go from 5-7....and while this is going on S20001 is still in its power band with no delay of shifting... how then is S20002 making better use of its power band?the answer is 2 fold.

first, the geared S2000 is going to be at a higher rpm (which means more into the meat of the power band) than the stock S2000 at the same speed. but let's ignore that for a moment.

using your scenario where they both start at say 7000 and go to 9000 before shifting. the 1st S2000 accelerates more quickly than the 2nd, so it reaches 9000 and shifts before the 2nd S2000. so the 1st S2k is already pulling away from the 2nd one. now shift, and the gearing makes better use of the power, because instead of falling down to say 6000rpm, it only falls to maybe 6600rpm, so it's once again starting in the "meatier" part of the power band. so the advantage remains and continues throughout each gear in this fashion.

in fact, my video illustrates this perfectly. we both start from a low roll, and as you can see, are fairly even. toward the end, however, you can see my car is pulling because the gears allow it to accelerate through a single gear more quickly. then, I go to shift, and you can see that just for a moment, my car stops pulling because I'm shifting. however, once I get into my next gear, and start going, the othe car now has to shift, and the advantage becomes even greater.

also, as you saw from my math example above, i have a somewhat significant advantage if both cars are in the same gear. what also helps, is that when i am into the next gear, but the other car is not yet, the "advantage" mathematically that the other car has is very small in comparison. that's because of my gearing.

hopefully this is explained correctly, i know it's kinda confusing.


better yet, does this work with every vehicle?
and wouldnt it matter were the power band was at?the same principle is applied, but the situation CAN vary since other models have different power bands. it all depends upon the situation. you also can't get drastic. for example, an S2000 with 5.10 gears is probably not going to be able to pull a stock geared S2000 at freewayspeeds.

honda troll
02-03-2006, 10:41 AM
i believe that the steeper gears are also closer, which means the rpms would stay higher when you shift up than in the stock car. even if thats not the case, with the steeper gears you would accelerate back into high rpms faster.
exactly. :)

I do believe that gears do help his car out alot..........but not every ones......
the s2000 is a rever and needs to be pretty high to get in its power band and create a significant amount of torque.......but on some cars such as.....lets see......mine.......my max torque starts pretty low and doesnt need to be reved high to get it.....cause if I do it just drops off alittle before redline anyways........
the same theory still applies. you just wouldn't be redlining every gear. think of your shift point as your redline. do the math, and you'll be able to calculate the optimal shift points.

youngvr4
02-03-2006, 07:39 PM
using your scenario where they both start at say 7000 and go to 9000 before shifting. the 1st S2000 accelerates more quickly than the 2nd, so it reaches 9000 and shifts before the 2nd S2000. so the 1st S2k is already pulling away from the 2nd one..

everything is making sense. i understand the majority exept i still question that^^

if the geard S2000 is going through the power band quicker, and the stock one is staying in it longer... why is the geard one using it better?


never mind, i think i got it, if when the geared one shifts its staying in its power band, as in the stock one would fall short of its power band and have to gain it back, and do so slower.



as far as the evo and sti. there's something else going on with those cars. every time i rae them, they pull on me at low speeds, pretty quickly i might add and once about 100mph its a rap, i reel em in pretty quickly. 4 times ive done this... it may very well be aero,,, though i wouldnt think it have that big of an effect.
even igovert500 has witnessed the same. u dont need to answer this question, your probably not a evo expert...its just i always thought it was gearing why i could kill them so nice on a highway run

honda troll
02-03-2006, 10:35 PM
everything is making sense. i understand the majority exept i still question that^^

if the geard S2000 is going through the power band quicker, and the stock one is staying in it longer... why is the geard one using it better?again 2 different things here.

first. S20001 accelerates faster from 7000-9000rpm than S20002 does. this is a pretty big advantage. take 2 cars that are stock, and give one about a half car head start over the other. by the time they get to 100mph that half car will have grown to maybe 2 or 3 cars.

second. by better use of the power band i mean this. when S20001 shifts to the next gear, it's rpms will fall to maybe 6600rpm. right at the meat of the power band. S20002 shifts, the rpms fall to maybe 6000rpm. in the power band, but not the most powerful part of the power band.

so by better use of the power band, that means the gearing is allowing your shift point to take you from the top of the "meat" right back to where the "meat" starts, rather than a weaker point before that.

so the combination of the two is what really lets one walk away from the other. did you get a chance to see my video of me vs a stock S2000 from a 5mph roll? it illustrates everything I'm saying in a perfect real world example.

now again, each car will be different, so a car like a mustang where you may not want to shift at redline, you'll have to do some math to find optimal shift points. but once you do, the same scenario above still applies.


never mind, i think i got it, if when the geared one shifts its staying in its power band, as in the stock one would fall short of its power band and have to gain it back, and do so slower.
exactly!! damn all that typing above for nothing. LOL


as far as the evo and sti. there's something else going on with those cars. every time i rae them, they pull on me at low speeds, pretty quickly i might add and once about 100mph its a rap, i reel em in pretty quickly. 4 times ive done this... it may very well be aero,,, though i wouldnt think it have that big of an effect.between the gearing and the aero that could be it. keep in mind, that the effects of aerodynamic drag increase exponentially. that means that the effect at 100mph will be maybe FOUR TIMES the effect at 50mph. plus at that point, their gearing may definitely be working against them.

even igovert500 has witnessed the same. u dont need to answer this question, your probably not a evo expert...its just i always thought it was gearing why i could kill them so nice on a highway run
it's a combination of gearing, power, and aero. your car simply has the advantage at that point, while down low, their car does.

youngvr4
02-03-2006, 10:42 PM
gotcha, i'm no gear expert so thanks for feeding me some of your knowledge.

makes a lotta sense

AWP9521
02-04-2006, 03:00 AM
After reading all of that I agree that the higher numerical gearing in the final drive will make the car accelerate faster because the engine will actually wind up faster due to the higher gearing (numerically) of the final drive, the majority of engines will benefit from shorter gearing because it actually lets the engine work less to move the same mass due to the torque multiplication of the final drive thus it revs to redline faster, but some engines will only rev so fast (generally ones with lots of torque in a broad PRM range) and in those cases it's better to gear the car taller for the torque than for the RPM's because the torque band is wider.

What I do not agree with is the RPM drop when shifting, that 600 RPM difference is bogus because both transmissions have the same internal gearing, you might think there is a 600 RPM difference because the engine is faster revving and you shift then look at the tach it most likely jumped that 600 RPM in the time you shifted then looked at the tach, the only way the RPM drop would change is if you actually changed the gear ratio's within the Transmission itself on one of the cars. But in reality if you wind both Engines to 8500 RPM and shift, both engines will drop the same amount of RPM in the same gear change regardless of the final drive gearing used, the only difference between S2K#1 and S2K#2 is the actual road speeds of the vehicles the upshifts occur at because of the difference in the final drive gearing.

honda troll
02-04-2006, 09:14 AM
After reading all of that I agree that the higher numerical gearing in the final drive will make the car accelerate faster because the engine will actually wind up faster due to the higher gearing (numerically) of the final drive, the majority of engines will benefit from shorter gearing because it actually lets the engine work less to move the same mass due to the torque multiplication of the final drive thus it revs to redline faster, but some engines will only rev so fast (generally ones with lots of torque in a broad PRM range) and in those cases it's better to gear the car taller for the torque than for the RPM's because the torque band is wider.

What I do not agree with is the RPM drop when shifting, that 600 RPM difference is bogus because both transmissions have the same internal gearing, you might think there is a 600 RPM difference because the engine is faster revving and you shift then look at the tach it most likely jumped that 600 RPM in the time you shifted then looked at the tach, the only way the RPM drop would change is if you actually changed the gear ratio's within the Transmission itself on one of the cars. But in reality if you wind both Engines to 8500 RPM and shift, both engines will drop the same amount of RPM in the same gear change regardless of the final drive gearing used, the only difference between S2K#1 and S2K#2 is the actual road speeds of the vehicles the upshifts occur at because of the difference in the final drive gearing.Oh i get what you're saying. yeah I was looking at that incorrectly. it's the road speed that changes of when the actual shift occurs, not the rpm that the S2000 drops down to.

sorry for the confusion.

in fact, here's a gear calculator if you want to see the exact difference of what he's talking about:
http://www.turnzero.com/technical_resources.php?resource=gear_calculator

select an 00-03 S2000. look at the graph. then change the final drive to 4.57 and then compare.

good catch, i had never even viewed it that way. i had the right concept, but the wrong idea in my head on that part.

youngvr4
02-05-2006, 03:53 AM
talking like real car enthusiasts should talk. i think we all learned something here.

honda troll
02-05-2006, 09:17 AM
talking like real car enthusiasts should talk. i think we all learned something here.
it's amazing what can be accomplished when a-holes don't ruin it for you. LOL

AWP9521
02-05-2006, 04:09 PM
That is a pretty neat site, I spent a lot of time messing around with that, quite interesting how you can change tranny ratios to see the RPM drops on the Graph. Going by the 7K to redline range you posted I actually came up with a set of ratios that I would be willing to bet would compliment the power range of the vehicle and make it run even better, the only problem would be the praticality of it as what I came up with might not even be doable without spending lots of money and making major mods to the tranny's internals to get the results. But here are the numbers, open up a page with your Axle Ratio entered and then open up another using your Axle Ratio and then punch in the numbers below for the Transmission then compare the results of the graph and the data between the two pages.

1st Gear - 3.225
2nd Gear - 2.275
3rd Gear - 1.650
4th Gear - 1.300
5th Gear - 1.025
6th Gear - 0.815

These ratios would keep you pretty much in the meat of the Engine's powerband, note the 1-2 upshift still drops to about 6300 but it's still better than about 5800 stock which will still get you to 7K quicker, the 2-3 is about the same as stock in it's drop and the upper 3 gears have a wider effective range in the RPM band but are never dropping below 7K, and of course the total gearing numbers speak for themselves. One would think the engineers could come up with that.

honda troll
02-06-2006, 10:32 AM
that's a pretty cool thing you did there. there's a lot of reasons engineers choose the ratios they do, but none the less, it's interesting to see what you can change. :)

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