Almost the end of an era

Well, as i am a huge F body fan, i will be crushed when the time comes for the last F body. IM hoping GM has some sort of trick up there sleeve about this, I mean, the F body is what most of us grew up with, Thats in our blood and now there taking it away. which leaves the door wide open to the Mustang. What are the Mustang drivers of the feature suppose to play with? hehe

It will be a very sad day in America...... at least for the F body fans

I'm sorry to be so cynical, but "leaves to door wide open?" The F-body's not a door man now?

Sorry to give a date to it...but they pull the plug on August 29, 2002.

In case anyone cares...I heard a (well-placed) rumor...

F-body production could end DECEMBER 2001....yes, in three months.

Well knowing GM I wouldnt doubt it. Regardless if they stop production in 3 months or a year, the f-body is going away :(

I've heard that they might bring them back after a few (4-6) years if the public shows interest. Anyone have any info on that?

I hate to see them go as well. It's kind of a love/hate thing for me considering I am a diehard ford guy. I have always enjoyed the healthy competition in the Mustang vs. Camaro wars, and hate to see it come to an end. Sure, GM has always done a better job of giving their muscle cars more power out of the factory, but its like a friend of mine who drives an SS says..."you just never know what one of you crazy mustang f**ks has done to your car to make it faster". When you look back through the years, what better rivalry has there been than the one between the Pony cars and the F-bodies. The Camaros just haven't sold that well lately, so GM will yank them for a couple of years, re-release them with some sort of retro styling, and make a killing off of them. My only hope is that Ford hears the complaints of their faithful, learns a few things from the general, and crams a few more ponies under the hood so we will be a little better equipped to handle the return of our respected foes, the Camaro & Firebird.

Well said.
But GM hasn't ALWAYS been on top (performance wise)
Don't you remember the Fox Bodied Days? Back when Fords 302 made more hp then GM's pussy 305?
Then in '93 GM said "Boo Yah!" and pulled out the LT1. Then they backed it up with something even better yet, the LS1!
They're on the right track performance wise, but people just aren't buying them. :(

Ahhhh...the pre-LT1/LS1 era!!! Now those were the good old days. Damn the general and his el es juan!! :D

Muahahahahahah!
Viva los EL ES JUANS!

I am sad too I think the f-bodies were beatiful and I am not a Ford fan so that gives the mustangs a little victory.:(

No way. I for one, am almost glad this great car is going to stop being produced. Now I'm sure you may be asking, WHY!? Well, I'll tell you. Anyone remember the old Challengers? Dusters? Badass cars...but then what happened as time went on? They turned into compact family sedans. Wouldn't you be absolutely crushed to see the new 4 door Camaro with 100 HP and getting 100MPG? Or a new Firebird that looked like a friggin Taurus? I'm glad that the F-Bodies will be discontinued before they turn to crap like the old Challangers, Dusters and so on.

That and if you oWn an F-Body, then you have something special. Something that is not produced anymore. Giving you all the more reason to take care of it. I for one, am in the process of modding my 1985 Firebird. I am ordering a WS6 style Ram Air hood, a Trans Am body kit as well as performance mods. Most people ask me why I'm dumping money into an old car when I can get a new one? Well, guess what, there wont be "new ones" forever, so I'm making the most of what I have. F-Body will live forever!

well put dude...

i have respect for domestic cars, and i originally loved the big V8's....but you guys are making it sound like one of your kids has died. the f-body has had a weakening pulse all through the 90's. their chassis design was too outdated for everything else that was out there. not to cause argument, but give me a 1.8 liter vtec honda engine any day.

It IS like losing a kid. Maybe you don't understand because you never owned one, or for whatever reason. But for those of us growing up with them, learning of their legacy and even driving them, it's just kind of weird to know that they will no longer be produced. However, I am all FOR the discontinuing of the F-Body for certain reasons which you can read a few posts up.

Originally posted by ImportNut1212
i have respect for domestic cars, and i originally loved the big V8's....but you guys are making it sound like one of your kids has died. the f-body has had a weakening pulse all through the 90's. their chassis design was too outdated for everything else that was out there. not to cause argument, but give me a 1.8 liter vtec honda engine any day.

I dont know what crack YOU'RE smoking, but I sure as hell wouldnt take a 1.8L VTEC ANYTHING over an 5.7L LS1 V8.

good for you, thats your opinion. i know that the bigger an engine, the more power it has the potential for. but still, i would want the more reliable, cheaper, and more easily modded 1.8 dohc vtec. i just think big 8 cylinder cars are on their last leg, gas is getting to pricey, and people are finding just as much if not more power in smaller displacement engines....with the use of forced induction of course.

The Firebird is by far the best looking muscle car out there and I wouldn't consider any other. I am very disappointed the firebird/camaro line is resting in peace but I do believe there will be demand in the future and GM will need to reconsider bringing it back to keep its customers by offering a new and improved muscle car.

:devil: Honda

Just because its a domestic V8 doesn't mean it's not reliable.
I could buy my car for the same price you'd pay for a Integra GSR.
Oh yeah, and a DOMESTIC V8 has the largest aftermarket support (twice as big as a Civics), and the old "outdated carb motors" are 1000 times easier to mod and tune.

Want to know how fast V8's are going with forced induction?

I happy with my big pushrod V8. I get about 20mpg in the city and 26mpg on the highway not too bad for 401RWHP and 406RWTQ. Before the supercharger I was getting 31mpg on the highway. That not too bad seeing as though a buddy of mine has a 2000 BMW M series with a inline 6 and he said he is lucky to see 20mpg on the freeway. I have nothing against imports either. Anyways, I am also sad to see them go.

Honda smonda.........:apuke:

That aint even a 1/3 of a motor. Like to see one of those piss ant little cars run with a LS1......that is with out 50K of after-market work running against a stock TA. can you cay "EAT MY DUST" :evillaugh

okkk, i'm up for that challenge. lets take an LS1 vs. any one of these cars:
1. R-34 SKyline GT-R
2. Acura NSX-T or NSX-R
3. Toyota Supra Twin Turbo
4. Mazda RX-7 Twin Turbo
5. Honda S2000
6. Subaru Impreza WRX (with about 6k mods)
7. Subaru Impreza WRX STI
8. Mitsubishi 3000gt VR4
9. Mitsubishi Lancer EVO VII
10. Nissan 300zx Twin Turbo.

So all of these cars are under 3.5 liters of displacement, and not larger than a 6 cylinder. hell, the s2000, wrx's, and lancer evo are all 4 cylinders. and they can run with an LS1. and OH MY GOSH, these cars make sharp turns....and they do it very well too. sorry to shock some of you muscle car fans, i know a sharp turn in one of those things could send you into a ditch. i still have respect for 8 cylinders, but lets face the facts...imports are best for handling, and domestics are best for straight line acceleration.

Originally posted by ImportNut1212
okkk, i'm up for that challenge. lets take an LS1 vs. any one of these cars:
1. R-34 SKyline GT-R
2. Acura NSX-T or NSX-R
3. Toyota Supra Twin Turbo
4. Mazda RX-7 Twin Turbo
5. Honda S2000
6. Subaru Impreza WRX (with about 6k mods)
7. Subaru Impreza WRX STI
8. Mitsubishi 3000gt VR4
9. Mitsubishi Lancer EVO VII
10. Nissan 300zx Twin Turbo.


NSX
RX-7 TT
S2000
3kGT VR4
300ZX TT
Supra TT
They'd all get beat by a stock LS1 90% of the time.

My car ran a 12.907@108.25 stock with a 2.0 60 foot time.

Evo VII, STI and Skyline I'm not even going to comment on because they aren't sold here on a wide scale market in the US.
The WRX with 6k in mods....WONDERFUL.
Okay, and my LS1 with 6k in mods runs 10s. :rolleyes:

yeah but the evo vii, and the sti will be here within the year. and anyway, i'd rather have the wrx with 6k in mods, it would outhandle a vette with the simple sti suspension. put a little bit of water on the track and the vette is done.

hey listen your argument is stupid. no one cares if some rice burning shit box can out perform a ls1, take a ZO6 vette put it up against any of those cars on strip or track and a good driver and all of those cars would keep a view of only one thing, the vettes tail lights :D not only that but seriously this thread is for Firebird owner/drivers/enthusiasts. if you want to talk shit about domestics try somewhere else cause no one here wants to read your stupid imports are better whiny shit take a hike. :flipa:

Does anyone else have the video of a STREET Corvette racing that full blow race-car Lotus Elise? Now anyone who says the Vette can't handle worth a shit has not seen this video. And this Elise I'm sure could outperform any of those imports, as this thing is a friggin Gran Turismo style car, all out race-car and it lost to a STREET Corvette. I don't know what course they were on, I believe it was somewhere in Europe, and they went at it for a lap. Total lap time being about 13 minutes long.

So until you actually SEE what these things can do, it would probably be best to keep that yapper at a minimum. Hell, I didn't even know Corvettes had that kind of power AND handling. I can't even begin to say how much more respect I garnered for them after seeing that race. Anyway, I can try to find the link for that vid if anyone is interested.

oh hell yeah vettes are hot shit. I saw a '01 ZO6 at the local strip, it was dead stock and it ran a 12.8 @1?? (sorry don't remember the exact speed, it was last summer :) ) and thats the 385 hp model the '02 has 405 hp with a little tweaking and some slicks and a good launch your talkin' very low 12's high 11's they kick ass no question.;)

And the cool thing is, the Vette that raced the Lotus...was a C5...I'd feel very bad for the Lotus had it been the C5's big mean brother, Z06

Originally posted by Pikachoo
I've heard that they might bring them back after a few (4-6) years if the public shows interest. Anyone have any info on that?

you are more or less correct, i was at an auto show and asked about it and the guy said that they were taking them off the market cause they weren't sellin too well plus ford is bringing back the GT40 along with a few other companies and there cars...n e way he said that they would most likely be bringing it back in a few years, now how many i don't know and he didn't say

They are bringing out the GTO, not quite as fast from what I've read, but still cool...

-Grendel

'04 GTO not being fast?? Where have you read that?

Its been said that it will have the same Untuned vette LS1 version, which Bob lutz confrimed, suppose to have 350hp. rwd, 6sp. The car is small and lite, not as lite as a vette, but lite. :) Do some simple mods on that LS1 and watch out!

Sure the figures can change, but from what ive heard from Bob is that GM's "non-performance" days are over. They are also bringing back Chevy SS models! Maybe a Chevelle??? Bob is the man that can put GM back into the #1 spot for performance vehicles.

The first Muscle car is back! :p

Im not saying I know it all, things always change.

1. R-34 SKyline GT-R
1. R-34 SKyline GT-R
2. Acura NSX-T or NSX-R
3. Toyota Supra Twin Turbo
4. Mazda RX-7 Twin Turbo
5. Honda S2000
6. Subaru Impreza WRX (with about 6k mods)
7. Subaru Impreza WRX STI
8. Mitsubishi 3000gt VR4
9. Mitsubishi Lancer EVO VII
10. Nissan 300zx Twin Turbo.


Skylines, they don't even sell those in America.
An Acura NSX would lose and thats a damn $90,000 car.
S2000 thats a joke it won't touch it.
WRX no

And the rest have standard Twin turbochargers since their engines aren't good enough on their own...so what? Throw a "stock twin turbo" on a Camaro or Firebird and those cars will be blown away.

Get a clue, Honda's aren't reliable as you think they are.

Originally posted by Kevin
'04 GTO not being fast?? Where have you read that?

Its been said that it will have the same Untuned vette LS1 version, which Bob lutz confrimed, suppose to have 350hp. rwd, 6sp. The car is small and lite, not as lite as a vette, but lite. :) Do some simple mods on that LS1 and watch out!

Sure the figures can change, but from what ive heard from Bob is that GM's "non-performance" days are over. They are also bringing back Chevy SS models! Maybe a Chevelle??? Bob is the man that can put GM back into the #1 spot for performance vehicles.

The first Muscle car is back! :p

Im not saying I know it all, things always change.

I wasn't saying its going to be slow... I just read (hotrod magazine maybe... dunno the mag) that it was going to be about a second slower than the current Camaros and T/As in the 1/4

Who knows how accurate that is tho...

-Grendel

thet definatly do sell skylines stateside. a company out in CA called Motorex imports them and sells them. so they are here, and it would beat a vette. a WRX sti or a wrx with 6k of mods would beat a vette as well. and i've never heard such an ignorant statement as "they need twin turbochargers cause the engine isnt good enough by itself". thats just dumb. and yes, hondas are as reliable as everyone knows. besides being built better, its just common sense....less moving parts in a 4 cylinder as opposed to an 8 cylinder....therefore, theres less potential to break. its a well known fact that americans innovate, and japanese improve.

The company they come from, Nissan, does not make the Skyline in America. Who cares what side company does. Maybe it would beat a Vette so what, that isn't some little 4 cylinder economy car we're talking about. It's a car that's worth a damn, I guess you could call it a Japanese muscle car.

WRX sti or a wrx with 6k of mods would beat a vette as well

What is with these arguements. Why does the Corvette gotta be stock? Put the same 6k into the Corvette, and guess who is back on top again?

It's just dumb, well why are you not posting the RX-7's and Supra's, 300ZX's without the twin turbos? Cuz they can't keep up.
300ZX's could probably outrun my '88 GTA which is a fair car to compare it to, but it isn't going to hang with a 2002 Trans Am.

Honda's are junk, about as reliable as pos Cavalier. Look at what Honda is, it's a huge wealthy company that produces cars on the assembly line, just like GM is a huge wealthy company that throws cars on the assembly line. You're not getting a handmade, perfect little automobile.
It's going to break down, you will have trouble with it some time or another, it's not God's gift to a car.

And a 140 horsepower Civic isn't impressive to a 325 hp Trans Am. The more power you start with, the faster you can get your car to go easier.

a 300zx tt WILL hang with a trans am, without a question first of alll. second of all, hondas aren't junk, so what if they are made on an assembly line? so are 90% of cars. and another thing, any car you are going to have problems with sometime or another, i gurantee it. the new 350z should be running straight with the corvette, in acceleration and handling. and everyone knows that a 140hp civic isnt impressive, thats why places like greddy, hks, apex'i, blitz etc make turbo kits for them. i've seen civics and integras beat out american muscle time and time again. sure the imports have mods on them, and sometimes the domestics do too. its all a matter of preference. i think imports look better, and are more reliable. i'm about to get an sr20det engine into my 240sx, after i get the basic mods (front mount intercooler, intake, exhaust) i'll be pusshing about 300rwhp at 13psi of boost. now, combine that with how light my car is, and a good transmission, and i'll run with vettes all day. you know what i like about that? i will shock people, so what if a vette beats out another car, its a vette, big engine, little car....its been done to death. now, i have a little car with a 2 liter 4 cylinder that will beat out alot of cars, thats a shock to people.

Originally posted by ImportNut1212
a 300zx tt WILL hang with a trans am, without a question first of alll. second of all, hondas aren't junk, so what if they are made on an assembly line? so are 90% of cars. and another thing, any car you are going to have problems with sometime or another, i gurantee it. the new 350z should be running straight with the corvette, in acceleration and handling. and everyone knows that a 140hp civic isnt impressive, thats why places like greddy, hks, apex'i, blitz etc make turbo kits for them. i've seen civics and integras beat out american muscle time and time again. sure the imports have mods on them, and sometimes the domestics do too. its all a matter of preference. i think imports look better, and are more reliable. i'm about to get an sr20det engine into my 240sx, after i get the basic mods (front mount intercooler, intake, exhaust) i'll be pusshing about 300rwhp at 13psi of boost. now, combine that with how light my car is, and a good transmission, and i'll run with vettes all day. you know what i like about that? i will shock people, so what if a vette beats out another car, its a vette, big engine, little car....its been done to death. now, i have a little car with a 2 liter 4 cylinder that will beat out alot of cars, thats a shock to people.

Well put... SR20 powered 240SX's are bad ass... Post pics when your done :)

-Grendel

300zx tt WILL hang with a trans am,

I'm not so sure about that now after looking up the power on that car. 13.9 in 1/4 mile granted times may vary but I know a Trans Am can get a lot better time then that.

You said Japanese manufacturers are finding more and more ways to get power out of smaller engines. Yeah well no shit throwing on turbochargers is a real easy way to get power out of any engine.
(btw American manufacturers are finding more and more ways to get a lot more power out of their fuel injected V8's as well so again I'm not impressed)

Here is something you can compare your 300ZX Twin Turbo against. How about a 03 Mustang Cobra with the factory supercharger?

any car you are going to have problems with sometime or another, i gurantee it

Again I know that. Which is why I'm saying Honda's are not the perfect little car. They are as reliable as a vehicle from any other big business company. Probably more reliable then a Ford, but about the same as a GM.


i'll be pusshing about 300rwhp at 13psi of boost. now, combine that with how light my car is, and a good transmission, and i'll run with vettes all day.

Good for you then, racing bone stock cars with a heavily modified little Nissan. Honestly it should make you proud that you would be able to take on Vette. I'd like to see you run with a Vette owner who put around the same amount of money into his car as well.

devil, i'm not really seeing what your argument is. ok, everyone knows theres no replacement for displacement. a 5.7 liter v8 ultimately has more power potential than a 2 liter i4. ITS ALL A MATTER OF PREFERENCE. i like the looks of import cars. i think they look a hell of alot better than domestics. and i dont know what your problem is with turbochargers. its not a solution to a shitty engine, its just as much a solution to a shitty engine as upping the displacement and cylinders is. and i dont care what "ways" american manufactures are finding to get power out of their v8's. the bottom line is japan has set the standard for quality, technology, and maximum performance. its a known fact that the introduction of japanese cars into our market forced domestic makers to up their quality.

to me, when someone says they have 400+ hp out of a vette/camaro/mustang/firebird, i'm not all too impressed. thats not hard to do AT ALL with an engine that big. now, when i read about a 400+hp civic/integra/eclipse/240sx thats something that impresses me. sure, you could have taken that same money, put it into an 8 cylinder and gotten more power. who cares, again, its all a matter of preference. i chose my 240sx because not alot of people have them. how many mustangs/camaros/firebirds/vettes do you see on the road every day??? its almost sick how many mustangs i see, and vettes (the new ones) are almost all driven by men in a mid life crisis. if i took my 240 and ran it against a mild modified mustang i'd still run with it. the fact is, muscle cars are pretty weighty.
i cant stress enough, its ALL A MATTER OF PREFERENCE, BE A LITTLE MORE OPEN MINDED.

i would want the more reliable, cheaper, and more easily modded 1.8 dohc vtec.



More reliable?thats a good one importnut.hondas are as reliable as saturns.They go what?150k miles before you start having problems?V8s go much longer than that.Hondas are econo boxes,there not too reliable.
About how fast they both are...If you take a stock honda and a stock trans am,its not even worth raceing.If you throw 10k into a Honda and 10k into a Trans Am,its also not worth raceing.Muscle cars are more powerful than Hondas.And looks?It depends on what you like.Hondas are OK looking to me.The Trans Am and other domestics are a lot better looking though,but thats me.

why supe up something that was made for economy porpouses

kinda like throwing muddin tires & jackin up a f50

its a conflict of interest!

why supe up something that was made for economy porpouses





Thank You!why would you throw 10-60k on something that was made to reduece polution.Its not worth it

The import comments I've seen on this forum warrant a response:

imports are highly overpriced;
imports are hard to work on (thanks to front wheel drive);
imports are hard to work on (thanks to weird engineering);
imports are hard to work on (thanks to bloody minded manuals);
imports are hard to work on (thanks to expensive parts);
import engines are junk (try going up a long steep hill in the desert);
import transmissions are junkier (try putting 350FTLB behind one);
imports perform and handle like junk (front drive understeer);
imports look ridiculously funny doing a front wheel burnout;
imports can't do a burnout unless thay got >$6K worth of mods;
imports get squashed flat in a crash (no driver protection);
imports make 300HP (and 30FTLB) only above 10,000 RPM;

all the import "hot rods" I've seen were not modified by their owner (their owner paid big bucks to a speed shop to do it for them...);
and most of them were mostly all show and no go;

if you're serious about cars, you'll do your own modifications;

my stock WS6 can run mid 13s;
if I spend $3K for a turbo and run 13 pounds boost, it'll make 450+ HP;
if I spend $6K on my WS6, it'll run 11s and pull 1.0g on the skidpan;
if I spend $10K instead, it'll easily run 9s;

if you're serious about cars, you'll know that more SBC engines have been produced than any other engine; GM has had 30+ years to get it right, but honda do a complete redesign every 3 years (there's no possibility to even start to work the bugs out...);

a honda vtec engine is the biggest bunch of junk (it is not even fit for use as a starter motor for a 454 or 502 or as a boat anchor);

if you blow up your your Skyline GTR engine, it will cost you $10K+ to replace (if you can get one...); a crate LS1 costs less than $5K;

any American muscle/sports car in all of history is better in all respects than any import muscle/sports car to date without exception (just go look in the history books and compare this for yourself...);

it is sad to see the end of F-body production (which is caused by people who buy hondas...);

I don't like imports, but I Hate hondas...

:jump:

said like a true automotive enthusiast!:D