Buying spyder gst need advice..

So on monday I'm driving to jersey to look at 3 spyders (to replace my now defunct spyder gs). 2 of which are turbo. One a 98 and a 99 with 98k and 72k miles respectively. They are asking above blue book. The two turbo spyders are at dealers. I'm fine if it comes down to the gs I know what to look for but my question is two parts.

If i test drive the turbo's what the hell do I look for? I know how to check basic things. But with a turbo is there anything special I would look at to see if it's messed up?

And if i decide on the turbo spyder how much do I pay? I know turbo's generally are more desireable so is over the dealer blue book decent? Or should I try to do much better? They are both going for around 8k?

i bought my old 99 spyder gs (137k miles) off ebay for 5k and it needed about 1k in work (brakes, tires x 4, cat, title/registration/tax) so total I paid about 6k for it.

What should I offer for these? I'm not sure of the actual market value.

Read the whole FAQ thread stickied at the top of the main page. This is cut and pasted from it:
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So, you're considering buying your first DSM, a position all DSM owners--on this forum and otherwise--have been in. EVERYONE worries about a few things before deciding to buy a turbo DSM:

1) Models

-Eclipse RS/GS/Talon ESI= base models of the DSM, 420a Chrysler engine, front-wheel-drive, may or may not have added options (but you should be able to see for yourself)

-Eclipse GS-T/Talon TSI= models featuring the Mitsubishi 4g63 turbo engine. These cars are also FWD. Slower starts than AWD, but higher top end abilities.

-Eclipse GSX/Talon TSI AWD= models featuring the 4g63 turbo engine, as well as all-wheel-drive. I believe all of these cars have leather, and many if not all have every option. Ungodly fast launches, but alleged drivetrain loss at high speeds in comparison to GS-T's.

2) Reliability: As any mechanic will tell you, performance vehicles will cost more money to maintain than a 130 hp Kia. Any vehicle with a turbocharger was intended to perform well for its class, and the addition of a turbo to GS-Ts, GSXs, etc. adds one more system that can fail, just like any other mechanical feature of the car. The key to a car's reliability is maintenance. If the previous owner has changed the oil late at 4,500 miles every time and has drag raced the car from every stoplight he or she has ever waited at, you probably don't want to buy it unless you're prepared to spend some cash fixing it. Without being abused or neglected, DSM's are equally if not more reliable than any other turbocharged car on the road--even more so than some naturally aspirated ones. So, if you find a creampuff DSM, don't be terrified of reliability just because it wears the Eclipse badge on the back.

3) Crankwalk: There are a number of threads on this site regarding crankwalk (at least 10-15 started by me ). For a detailed explanation and discussion of the common problem with certain models of the 4g63 engine known as "crankwalk," check out this link:
Write-up on CW << Written by Kevin aka 95GSXracer
Essentially, crankwalk is a cute name for thrust bearing failure. This is a vast oversimplification, but bottom line is, you need a new engine!
Another Lengthy write-up on CW << Written by 97GSTspyder

Link provided by Shpyder- The Sound of Crankwalk

Now, don't close the window and run to your nearest Honda dealership just yet...thrust bearing failure can happen to ANY vehicle. And in all honesty, it only happens to DSM's very rarely. If you choose to buy an Eclipse or Talon, and you shop around well enough to find one that looks to be well-maintained, you can minimize your chances of getting crankwalk. WORST case scenario: the used car you buy has crankwalk, and you have to get a 6-bolt engine put into it for $2000 or so. But, in all likelihood your car will be good to go for many years. I would not recommend buying a DSM without being willing to spend this money if your car gets crankwalk. Allow me to stress again that it is very rare, and the pleasures of owning a DSM far outweigh the risk or even cost of crankwalk, in the rare event that it occurs!

4) What to Look For: Just like any other used car, you're going to want to look for a DSM that appears to be well-cared for are in good condition. Check the oil to see if it is filthy...observe the tread left on the tires...see if the interior is in good condition. Often, people who are nit-picky about maintaining their interior also care for the mechanics of the car well. Buying any used car is a risk, but you can maximize your chances of having a good experience if you get the vehicle inspected by a trusted mechanic. Ideally, you want a family mechanic who will put the car up on a rack for you and examine everything. If this is not available to you (you're buying on ebay, etc.), Pep Boys has a used car inspection service for $30. Take the car to Pep Boys, and they will do a comprehensive inspection, fill out a checklist of interior, exterior, and mechanical ratings, and test drive the car for you. Either way you go, it is far better to spend $150 having several cars inspected than getting stuck needing new brakes, a new clutch, and/or a new engine.

Edit: And try http://www.kbb.com for market value.

I did get the market value from kbb. Both are right above that (I'm sure the dealers can be talked down but to what price is what I'm asking do you think is reasonable). The reason I asked is because I know that GSX's always go for way over their kbb value. Do GST's do the same? I have observed they are generally over the private seller price(by a little), but I've never seen a gst spyder at a dealer so I wasn't sure how they sold normally. So I didn't know what was a good offer really.

I read the faq over again. I'm okay with all thats there my main question is around the turbo system. I'm not sure what to check there what things would fail on it etc. I have a new 16g sitting on my room floor that was suppose to go on my old gs this summer so swapping the turbo can be done in the gst (and will be). But that was suppose to be my first experience with a turbo and other then reading on how to install one I'm not sure what commonly fails on them. Is there anything to check like seals around that turbo/manifolds that would indicate damage to the internals? Things like that. Those weren't mentioned in the faq

The turbo either works fine or needs a rebuild. It is pretty hard to tell shaft play with the turbo on the car, but if the seller will let you, you can remove the intake pipe and wiggle around the compressor wheel. There should be a small up and down amount of leeway, but in and out movement (back and forth, parallel to the ground) should not exist.

If the car is blowing smoke out of the exhaust, it could be blown turbo seals. Besides the turbo not boosting, or a ton of shaft play, this symptom is just about the only way to tell that something is wrong.

Since you have a 16g sitting in your room, I wouldn't worry about the T25 too much. If you find out it is blown, just install the 16g and make sure you're controlling boost properly.

okay great thanks much..

Yeah I have a safc II, boost guage, egt gauge, greddy bov and flange sitting here. Also a ported o2 housing. So putting it on wont be a problem. I'm not going to worry about the physical turbo then I guess.

Thanks.

Yeah, go turbo man you wont regret it. 8k sounds high as hell though, I wouldnt go past like $6800. Maybe $7000. Also, if you can, I would do a compression test. IIRC (and I maybe dont) the 2g's should be around 180. Check the plugs for abnormalities, oil, overall cleanliness, and tires for funny wear. Good luck man.

okay thats what i thought. I'll try to talk him down quite a bit then. I so want a turbo spyder!

people always under estimate the value of turbo DSM's. They always go for above blue book. But you have a better chance at getting the dealership to match blue book. if you buy from a person there's no way you will get it for blue book retail.

i tried to sell my GS-T for about a month, and asked 11k, and someone was going to buy it until my hg blew. now that's $1500 above retail, and 3k above private party.

they are simply getting more and more rare, and people want them more and more. simply because they are a quick good looking car that is becoming affordable to young people now.

as for the cars.

Get a damn turbo. if you don't you WILL regret it like everyone does. i saw a nice tallon downtown the other day, first question he asks me, "is that a turbo?" its the first question out of everyones mouth, because its the difference between quick, and dog slow. most people with n/a eclipse, have turbo envy and have "turbo soon" in there mod list half the time.

oh i know the feeling. I have all the parts to turbo a gs spyder here. but they are worth more if i can sell most piece by piece and get a turbo for slightly more then a spyder gs.

And if i decide on the turbo spyder how much do I pay? I know turbo's generally are more desireable so is over the dealer blue book decent? Or should I try to do much better? They are both going for around 8k?




I bought my GS-T which was a 95 with 86k miles on it for 4k. Which was blue book price. Now for a vert I would expect it to be higher. Like 6k or something. when negotation with the dealer, I would start under blue book price by a few hundred dollars and work your way up. Be willing to go a few hundred dollars over blue book but the most important thing when dealing with a used car salesman is stand your ground and be firm. Don't be afraid to walk away. most of the time if you start walking away and you have given them a reasonable price they will come after you an accept your deal. But even then if it's to much walk away until you find something else. Trust me you don't want to fuck yourself by paying to much for a car.

both my cars the cavy and original spyder I bought private party. ebay for the spyder actually. When I went looking for a spyder originally the dealers I went to were about 3k over blue book and wouldn't budge on a gs. They started to ramble off things like but it has dual air bags.. And I kinda was like well it's required by law to for that year so thats not really a feature. So I've had a bad experience thus far. I figure since I'm paying cash up front I may be able to get a decent deal. I'm more then willing to pay a few hundred over blue book. I just dont' want to get screwed as you said.

My only other dealer experience was before I bought the cavy I found a plymouth laser 1990, 120k miles, 5 speed at a dealer (fully loaded) for 1200 dollars. I worked out a price and called and told the guy I'd be in in 15 minutes to hand him cash for it. When I got there he sold it to some other guy as I was walking in for 100 dollars more. So in general I hate dealers because I've always had bad experiences. I'm going out of the populated pennslyvania area I'm in so maybe it will be different a bit in jersey.

both my cars the cavy and original spyder I bought private party. ebay for the spyder actually. When I went looking for a spyder originally the dealers I went to were about 3k over blue book and wouldn't budge on a gs. They started to ramble off things like but it has dual air bags.. And I kinda was like well it's required by law to for that year so thats not really a feature. So I've had a bad experience thus far. I figure since I'm paying cash up front I may be able to get a decent deal. I'm more then willing to pay a few hundred over blue book. I just dont' want to get screwed as you said.

My only other dealer experience was before I bought the cavy I found a plymouth laser 1990, 120k miles, 5 speed at a dealer (fully loaded) for 1200 dollars. I worked out a price and called and told the guy I'd be in in 15 minutes to hand him cash for it. When I got there he sold it to some other guy as I was walking in for 100 dollars more. So in general I hate dealers because I've always had bad experiences. I'm going out of the populated pennslyvania area I'm in so maybe it will be different a bit in jersey.


Ahh also flaunt the fact that you have cash in hand for the car. They will be much more likely to negotiate price because it means they don't have to deal with financing and crap. But be firm. If you show any sign of weakness it'll turn sour. So if things go bad just walk away.

My father sold cars for many years, so when I go to the dealer I get what I want or I walk. Don't let them pressure you into buying something for to much, no matter how good it sounds. Ohh it has this or that, or we had to do all this and it costs this much. Stand firm or walk. If you let them know how much you want the car, you will just let yourself be fucked over.

The best thing you can do at a dealership is walk, because if they want to make the sale bad enough they will come get you.

congrats on your new gsx btw it looks awesome. Thanks for all the advice.

My dads philosophy is pay whatever they ask. he's only bought cars new so he buys them for msrp no more no less. It's dumb to me but then again I don't really have that type of money to throw around.

He however owns a fully loaded Caddy deville 94' with 33k miles on it because he bought it for when he drives to church *shakes head*

Good stuff. I looked around at a bunch of sites on buying cars from dealers but they were really biased (seemed like they were written by dealers themselves). So I figured I'd ask here.

congrats on your new gsx btw it looks awesome. Thanks for all the advice.

My dads philosophy is pay whatever they ask. he's only bought cars new so he buys them for msrp no more no less. It's dumb to me but then again I don't really have that type of money to throw around.

He however owns a fully loaded Caddy deville 94' with 33k miles on it because he bought it for when he drives to church *shakes head*

Good stuff. I looked around at a bunch of sites on buying cars from dealers but they were really biased (seemed like they were written by dealers themselves). So I figured I'd ask here.


hey no problem. if you have any questions just ask me. Yeah that philosophy of paying what they ask just doesn't work. You will get screwed every time really.

When I bought my cobra, it was already exactly at blue book through the dealer so I got lucky and i didn't have to argue with the guy at all. They probably had had it for a while and just wanted to sell it.

Also you can always leave and come back later too. Just tread lightly, and if you have any questions just ask ;)