V8 Swap

1991 4.3 v6 to a 5.7 v8. TBI to TBI. Probally the most direct swap you can do because you do not have to go get chips burnt and all that happy horse crap. Basically you get a 5.7 computer and put it where the 4.3 one is. Ok the motor is from a 89 c1500 pickup. My pap had it sitting down in his big ford 600 for about 5-6 years or so and when the rear main started to go back in march i began to look at this unique possiblity. In August of 2005, thats when i started to getting parts talking to the mechanic who did the labor parts and what not and finalized plans. Then in September all fricking hell broke loose on the truck with going to school everyday the rear main let loose and at the beginning of October i had to park her due to 4 quarts of oil per day not good for me. So i was forced to do this earlier than expected. Pa gave me the go ahead on the financial part because there was no way i could expect to pay for labor and parts at the same time. In November i started to rebuild the motor out of the back of the F600. Got a good scar on the finger when the friend let go of the motor while sliding it back into the truck and i had 500lb of motor wedged against my finger and the wooden wall. Basically i had to put a new headgasket on the passenger side, a head, an intake manifold and sensors. With that i sent the truck to my mechanic on November 17 2005. Well he didnt get on it till the day after Thanksgiving and was trying to do this with 3 other rigs in the shop and only one other mechanic. Well he brought another mechanic on board to help with the other stuff and began to tinker on my truck. While having the motor on his stand he went ahead put in my oil pump/pickup tube, oil cooler hose adapter, some more sensors, the water pump, distributor, throttle body, and other stuff. Then in early December he yanked the ol 4.3 that around 169xxx miles on it. The actual dropping in of the 5.7 was easy as we put it in the same spot as the 4.3. We had the adaptor plates for the mounts and with the 2.8 frame pads the motor was now bolted in. We had no idea at this point if it would even fire lol. So then he brought in his tranny expert to do the 700r4.At this point i am knocking on wood that i can get a year or more out of this till i can get a new one or something better. Basically installed a shift kit and vette servo for it along with new filter, gasket, and fluid. From the week or so before Christmas to the new year he kept plugging away at it when he had time. Problems here included fuel lines had to be spliced then connected with the rubber then metal to make them work. Also we had a problem where the 5.7s tbi unit was an oddball in it that the 4.3 detent cable would not latch onto it.So we went back to the 4.3s and swapped in the 5.7s injectors and the detent cable still wouldnt work. So he found one out in the beer trailer and welded a piece onto the tbi to make it work. We had some minor problems here with brackets, plugs for the air system on the camaro manifolds. Ok after New Years here came the big problems. Right before christmas we noticed the taurus fans probally would be a no go due to the fact there was a .25" between water pump and rad. Well we decided to go with a 16" pusher fan and put the rad back where the 4.3 one was because we did not want to cut the core support. So he cut off the rubber piece the rad sits on and the fan shroud and bolted it up. Then he proceeded to install the trans cooler and fan <which comes on with the ignition>. Then we had the radiator hose problem this week in the fact that the 77 olds 403 hose was too long and we had to use one from an 88 camaro 5.0. Then the bottom hose was a pain because it is supposed to keep the 4.3 one and it did not so we fought with that for awhile. Then today i walk in and was told it had a minor kink but that would not affect it because the other hose had big kink in it. So its off to exhaust on Monday then back to him so he can properly tune the motor in. We had to get some wire separators and now we need some wire loom for the plug wires because of heat generated by the motor. Here are some pics. When i get it back next week ill get more in depth with them. Also he had to modify the breather hose because GM doesn't make the hose from the drivers side valve cover to throttle body no more.We took a breather valve and cut it to fit a PCV valve and it looks great. Here are the pics. I tried to follow the FAQ but that gives me a red x.So here they are in link form.
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=1/1917392226.jpg&s=x12
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=1/1917402172.jpg&s=x12
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=1/1917414239.jpg&s=x12
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=1/1917185175.jpg&s=x12

I want to thank IHEARTCARS over at the s10forum.com aka Gary for welding me up the oil pan, the oil cooler hose adapter, and sending me the manifolds. Also Kip's Automotive in Deer Lake mainly Kip. He already knows how much i appreciate him. For me this was the way to go having to pay a mechanic because i do not have access to a shop the tools and the expertise in pulling a motor.From this i have learned so much more from reading and seeing the problems and coming up with solutions to fix em. Also if your gonna do this route communication is critical between man car and mechanic. We were always sending emails,phone calls,pictures back n forth. It took a little longer than expected but its worth it. The man doing the exhaust might just go dual like originally planned or just Y-Pipe it because that looks easier to do. Still trying to figure out a grand total probally post that next week but we agreed on 20 hours of labor at 45 a pop so most likely with the hour or two that he needs when he gets it back 1K plus incidentals.

http://x12.putfile.com/1/1917402172-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=1/1917402172.jpg&s=x12)
http://x12.putfile.com/1/1917414239-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=1/1917414239.jpg&s=x12)
http://x12.putfile.com/1/1917185175-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=1/1917185175.jpg&s=x12)
http://x12.putfile.com/1/1917392226-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=1/1917392226.jpg&s=x12)
There you guys go i figured it out finally.

Does not look like too tight of a fit . Should be fun to drive . Rob

I can't wait to drive it. I was told i have to break it in like a new motor because i rebuilt the motor.That makes sense. I didnt have the camera today so i couldnt get pics of how tight it is between the radiator and the motor.Like less than 1". The guys up at Advance loved me i had to return over 12 items at about 130 bucks and the over at Autozone 3 items for 25 bucks or so. I love this getting some cash back so it can goto mechanic. I will get exhaust photos up for sure when i get that put on this week.

I had a 350 that I built for a full size K5 a few years ago that I wanted to put in mine but I did not want to go thru what you are with the shoe horn and pry bar . There is not much room for an electric fan on the front side of the radiator . 2 -12 inchers will fit but not well . I am really pleased with the way mine will pull off now though . I hope it comes together for you . Not just a big can of worms . Rob

Ok an update no pics yet besides whats here. Dads friend was talking to the guy over doing the exhaust. No one would take the pipe bending job so as i call it he is using redneck inguinity on it. Taking little pieces of pipe with assorted bends and just welding them together to make the y pipe. Good news was once that crap is done hopefully Monday the cat muffler install only takes 30 mins. I am nervous at the moment with having to give its maiden voyage back to the first mechanic for tuning seeing how we got 2 wires unplugged that go into the computer and i dont know where and i dont know how the trans is gonna be with the upgrades nor how the motor is at temp.

Another update. Exhaust is done. He did not put the cat or muffler on because he said he put too much time into making the y pipe and it hooked into the old cat with out problem. He told me it was the first time he ever made one but by looking at it you would not have known it. The quality, the welds, everything is exsquisite. He even painted it.

Bad news is it would not start because the timing is so off that it can't but he said it would run and then sputter so he was checking for leaks and that when i get it back he wants to take 5 mins to check it for leaks. So this sucked because now i have to pay for towing back from their which i did not want to have to do but anyway i think it will be probally done by end of week which then i can get you guys some pics.

Nice!

I need it back so bad just to touch all the paint up, clean the interior, clean the undercarriage of rear main seal carniage and what not.Then i need to goto work to start paying my debts.

Nice to see you back.

These are the ones the camaro/ firebird manifolds are 88-92 tpi manifolds with the smog equipment.
I had a pic but it wont load. Ill try to get one up later.

Thats Sofa King awesome!!! My cousins husband owned my blazer b4 me. and he was gonna have his mechanic put in a V-8. I still wish they had.

Seemed to hit a brick wall at 90mph.

Been talking to OBP all night it seems and other guys too.
Got a phone call today from mechanic after he picked up the truck.Since it would not start he ran a compression test. Found out that number 3 and number 8 cylinder no compression all others wonderful. He wanted to know what all new parts were in it so i gave him a list and just emailed it to him about an hour ago. From OBP and a couple other guys its looking like timing, rocker arm adjustment, valve adjustment/carbon removal is what needs to be done here. He seemed excited once i told him what was replaced and seemed to know right away what it was but would not tell me. We were baffled in a sense since we did not why a perfectly sounding motor pre exhaust would just up and kill 2 cylinders.We got theories lol will keep you all updated.

Problem was a little w valve adjustment alot with rocker arms and pivot balls. Apparently the balls can only go in the rocker one way and we had only 1/16 right lol, so that in turn caused it. Then valves got adjusted and what not and it drives. Also timing was set by hear because of a 4.3 crank pulley on a 5.7 timing cover so the marks dont line up. HE said it has a little bit more than he can find. ALso tires spin to 20mph.

Well this sucks bad. Paid him today for the truck because it was done. TIming didnt seem right because it stutters so bad around 50. Ill have to figure out how to adjust the timing w the 4.3 crank pulley on the 5.7.Then all hell broke loose. Went to make a right turn lost all electrical power and could not move at all or get it to stay running. So i had my friend tow me with his sonoma for about 3 miles then the thing fired up. Drove it to my buddys and we popped the hood. Apparently the plastic wire loom that was all hyped up to be heat resistant burned off and was dripping on the manifolds. We also saw a hose clamp missing on the one rad hose that goes the overflow. Then this is where it got fun. I needed gas because it was old and i wanted to put in the 93 so i did, went to accellerate up this big hill and i had my friend sitting their that knows cars and stuff and i told him its not moving it has no power once so ever. Well im coasting down this hill because the tranny started to downshift. Get to the bottom just outside the Ford dealer it lost electrical power again and then all hell broke loose. Massive leakage of coolant from the overflow.Somehow the coolant went from the radiator to the overflow and i guess bubbled over but we had a river sitting their and massive smoke and vapor cloud.Some guy stopped and asked us if it was on fire and were like no. Then i noticed that i had 2 plug wires melted right through on the drivers side. Then i noticed that i had coolant everywhere. So my friend hooks me back up to his sonoma and is pulling me in the shoulder of the main road 40mph then we come out into the right lane then the middle lane to get to the mechanic. He tells me that the radiator is broke right at the tank. So im pissed and he knows it. I dont feel as though i should have to pay for the labor ill buy the parts but i shouldnt have to pay for labor. He told me he drove and idled it for awhile but he should have taken a longer ride i think. Then he tells me that i should have gotten the other wire separators and i said to him you told me to get these and at the time you said these were the right ones. So im off to the junkyard tommorow for a radiator, then to Autozone for them wire separators then to him. So mad right now. Also he said maybe the 16lb cap pressure was too much?

Radiator trouble , yuck . I am afraid you are just beginning with the cooling system problems . I bought an after market rad , and now I am going to take the original to get repaired and reinstall it .
Burnt wires , Bad news . Electrical problems will start everywhere now .
I guess I am glad I just beefed up the 4.3 .
350 is a great fantasy in a mini but a painfull learning lesson for the first timer . Rob

Sorry to hear about your problems. I hope they all work out soon. This may sound stupid, but how many engine grounds are you using? From your description it sounds like a intake gasket was put on wrong blocking a few coolant passage's. Please pull your valve covers and start your engine if you can, and make sure that you have oil flowing from every rocker assembly , If not please think about pulling your engine apart. You are to close to enjoying your project to have something more catostrophic happen.

I wouldn't think the gasket be on wrong. He put another one in after the one i put in. Im sure the oil is getting to the rockers because he adjusted the valves and what not hot.I hope not. 2 ignition wires bam. I could roast hot dogs in that engine bay. I definately need a way to control heat under their. Well we noticed that it sent alot of coolant into the reserve tank and the radiator would not let that come back into it. Lol i dont know. I got to enjoy for 20 or so minutes. Once i find out what i can put on wires so they dont burn<non ignition ones> i am going to go over every wirein that damn compartment.

Go to summit. they have all types of heat resistant wire looms and tapes. I have to use these on my Blazer. They also have spark plug wire covers.

Well i picked up on ebay another set of dividers these should work better. They go into the valve covers at the bolts and have like little hands that come off of them. It should keep the wires off the manifolds alot more. Also plan on going the route of heat shield or the exhaust/header wrap i saw on Jegs for 20 i think Summit had some. Thats good to 2000 degrees F. Picked up my new rad at the jyd. It is pretty new there are still tags on it from the place that sold it and it is the heavy duty one. It has an oil and trans cooler. All i got left to get our the wires. He needs these first so that he can determine any engine damage. He doesn't think so nor do i but we rather be safe.

Anybody got ideas on why rad blew? Im thinking 2 things. One age.It is the original and has 170000 almost miles. Two maybe pocket of air,we heard it gurgle then blew.I don't know. Im off to plant my money tree because i have insurance due Tuesday and parts yet to buy for this.GRRR

Boys and Girls lol round 2 gets underway around 3 this afternoon lol.

Got them new wire separators down there, new rad has been installed and right now wires are attached to the firewall till these separators go in.

Ok we kinda narrowed it down to the thermostat. He said either get a new one and drill holes in it or just run with out. Now i am pretty sure you can not run with out a thermostat due to the fact the computer might not understand some things.

Ok FRICKING UPDATE

Truck is back ran like shit.So i go looking and find a plug wire on number 7 cylinder off, so i wait an hour because i got massively hot exhaust and put it back on. I go for a spin and if any of you guys watch WWE they have this video that starts out with the power is back well the balls are back. So im going through this town and it started to idle real rough. So when i get to Advance i see that the wire is off again and i burned myself with 1200 degrees of exhaust heat when i got to close. Well i shoved the wire on and leave and it was good for awhile but then i noticed that it was doing it again so i stop and see that the boot is on but the wire separated from the boot. I got extra wires here so im gonna put one tomorrow morning.

Anybody know how I can keep the wire on the plug?

Also mechanic did not put any power steering fluid in it so that fixed that problem.

Anybody got speednuts for a first gen heater controls? You know the ones inside. I need some ASAP and they dont have any around here big enough.

Currently i am burning the anti freeze off the motor that got spewed everywhere because mechanic no clean it up.

Plug wires are zip tied away.

Cooling is awesome i dont go above 150 -175 that is awesome.

Well got bad news. Today this loud ol sound started up and my friends and i thought pulley cuz the one was bouncing around something fierce and it didnt overheat. Well i pull into mechanic and i had perfect timing in the sense that the overflow spewed and now mechanic thinks that oil mixed in with coolant a little and that the loud noise is now a bearing. I am at the end of my road and do not know what to do. Friday im going to take it over to this other mechanic have him look at it, if he says bearing then the piece is getting parted out.

I know it looks Bad, Step back and take a break. Realy think about pulling the engine and doing a total rebuild, Buy a gasket set and a good torque wrench and take your time. The prize is right there in front of you, think of the power that you will have once all of the bugs have been worked out. I was just wondering, did you do a rebuild of the engine before you put it in? Believe it or not you can rebuild an engine in less than a day. Don't give up! I am looking forward to racing you one day.

Yeh the top end got rebuilt. Passenger side head and gasket intake manifold gasket new rockers pushrods rear main set oil pump oil pan gasket oil cooler hose adapters and gaskets. Only thing not changed was drivers side head and i had proof that was replaced prior.

Right now im trying to find out if it possibly was the crank pulley. Ok he kept the 4.3 one on their and i dont know why he didnt go to the 5.7 one for the balancer. When this other mechanic looks at it im going to ask him because this guy is pretty sure its bearing.

Hard to put a lid on that can of worms . I hope it is one of your assecceries and not the crank . Rob

Maybe one day you can get it to a point where you have to work on it every 200 miles like I do instead of every day . With all that new equipment . The only way you could have spun a bearing is if you had no oil or alot of water in it . Or it was not torqued down right . Who did the assembly , Get a warranty? Rob

Well see we didnt touch bottom end. For top end we followed the book to the T. So thats why im hoping pulleys because i didnt touch none of that.

Well its the bearings and it had to take something else too cuz the coolant is brownish now. So im out 3k and tommorow i begin to part out the beast. For 2 years we had the best and worst of times. Now she ceases to live and has gone to the General Upstairs. Im sending her far away so in my jyd visits i dont have to see her. RIP BLUE BEAST

OH NOOOOOOO !!!!! SHE'S dead . Heart transplant and then a heart attack . But what about the 4.3 you pulled out of it . Did you sell it already ? Rob:shakehead

That was junk too. That blew the rear main and would need alot of head work. Im still in morning. I might have to go sleep in it tonite.

Sorry to hear about the loss. I will wear a black armband in mourning for you :sorry:.
Have you looked, or thought of looking into another 4.3 from a boneyard that is salvagable?? What would it take for the rebuild on the V8??

Why didn't you rebuild the bottom end? It seems like you went through a lot of time and expense - would it have been that much more?

Why didn't you rebuild the bottom end? It seems like you went through a lot of time and expense - would it have been that much more?

I agree. After going through the work of getting everything switched over the hard part is done. It's not that hard to pull the motor and rebuild the bottom end. It would be a good chance to build it up a little too.

Nope going newer. good thing is though mechanic who did the work will tear this apart for me for nothing and give me what i want. I got most of it going somewhere to someone.

Right now im organizing my 3 shotgun 1 rifle salute to her.:crying: :frown:

Quite a lot of coin too cuz the heads i believe took a crap too even though they had been fixed because my anti freeze is orangish brown.

She just rejected the heart transplant. I need to take a photo to show ya guys whats left. Im thinking of retrying this idea in about 2 years or so.This time gonna do it all myself and biggger lol.