Scanner Data Questions

Hello all,

I have been having issues with the ol' MIL coming on....and the car is idoling somewhat rough at times...and REALLY rough sometimes(AND WHEN IT DOES, THE LIGHT GENERALY WILL FLASH......when you first start it in the morning, it runs like a dream....as it warms up (even a little), you begin to notice it running rough. If you go to the exaust and listen..you can tell it is not running properly by the sound and the smell (smells rich and burns the eyes a little)

I had it scanned and the mechaninc told me I had "random misifires"....and said to change the plugs and wires. Did it....put it the irdium plugs and Accel 10mm wires. Car still runs the same.....MIL stays on. Took it to Autozone....the guy was kind enough to let me know that cylinder 2 was misfiring. So...I swapped coil packs around to see if the misfire would jump to a new cylinder. Nope....stayed in cyl 2. I got the codes reset.....and drove for a bit......went back to AUtozone...still on Cyl 2.

NOW.....I finally boned up and bought a scanner (the Actron CP9145)...yeah I know...not a snap on or mac....but it got good reviews on the web...and in some cases, found data that the snap on did not.///so, I bought one.

Scanned Still have a P0302 Mod$10 Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected (AND WHAT THE HECK IS THE MOD$10 TELLING ME?)

ALSO a pending code (same as above...but with a p/d on the end of P0302

It also mentioned something about the EGR valve 2 acting up....but when I reset the computer...and drove in to work today (about 65 miles)...that code has not returned...only the misfire codes remain. Maybe not enough time has passed yet for the computer to have it fault enough times to report)

Here is what the Freeze Data Review screen says for the time of the fault detected on cyl 2:

TROUB CODE P0302
ABSLT TPS % 0.0
ENGINE RPM 736
CALC LOAD % 2.7
MAF LB/M .64
MAP "HG 13.0
COOLANT F 172
LT FTRM1 % 10.2 (THIS ONE INTERESTS ME....DOESN'T THIS MEEN THE CAR IS RUNNING REALLY RICH AT THE TIME ON FAULT? AND THIS IS THE LONG TERM DETECTOR...WEIRD

VEH SPEED MPH 0
FUEL SYS1 CLOSED
FUEL SYS2 N/A


I have also did a veiw data scan on the way in to work this morning....and I noticed that when I was running at higher speeds..and accelerated hard from there....somtimes the Fuel Sys circuit would go to open...and when I let off the gas some.... it would go back to closed agian. In the manual. it indicates that when the Fule Sys Status goes to open, "Module is operating in Open Loop control strategy. The vehicle has not yet satisfied conditions for module to go to closed loop" I dont know if this is right or wrong for the car to do this.....but I wanted to give ALL of the info I could to the forum as to result in a solution.

Last night, I checked the rsistance of the injector at Cyl 2...against the others ....the resistance is the same. I checked the injector for continutiy to ground....it has none which is normal.

Wow.....sorry for the download....but man, I am getting desperate here. Please help however you can.


Thanks!!!!

Ernie

Sounds like you have a great scanner there. The issue here is the fact that you have a misfire on Cylinder #2. Because you have changed the plug and wire I suspect you may have a dirty or bad injector. Sometimes the injector resistance will be the same as the others when cold but it will get high when the injector gets warm. If I were you I would change the injector to another cylinder. If the misfire moves the injector is bad and will need to be replaced. This is the easiest way to find a cause for the problem. Good Luck! and Welcome to AF!!

Dad...thanks for the info and welcome. Yep...I was on that track...just wanted to get some input before I proceeded. Now....is there anyway to do this w/o pulling the entire fuel rail up? Maybe swap 2 and 4 w/o messing with the rest of them. Was worried about dealing with dirt and stuff too.....take a power washer to it before I start? Have new orings on hand as well?

Also.....I though possibly about a valve in cyl 2 giving me grief...but that would happen whether cold or hot wouldnt it?


Thanks

Ernie

Oh..and by the way...I also pulled the plug off of cyl 2 injector while it the car was running....it didnt make much difference until I when in a revved the engine...THEN it you could really tell it had a totally dead cylinder. When I pulled of another injector wire from cyl 4 and 6 (seperately of course)....the car REALLY started running rough at idol...

You are on the right track. Simply move the injector from 2 to 4 and visa versa. This will be the easiest way to change them. Don't power wash the engine just use a can of air like you would use on a computer or a compressed air hose to blow the dirt off. Lubricate the o-rings with vaseline before installing and it will make the job go a lot easier. As for pulling the plug usually one won't make much difference at idle. You may also want to check the wiring to the injector as it may be abraded and not sending proper voltage to the injector all the time.

Dad....yep...did the injector wire voltage test with the ol fluke and it checks out to be the same as the others. Thanks so much for all your help...between you and Bob...I think I am getting somewhere.

Wanted to pass this along...valuable info here on the cyl 2 problem as well as a problme I have been having on my tranny with 1-2 shift solonoid.


Ernie


"On the P0302 cylinder #2 misfire it is possible the injector is dirty
or
clogged. 6 out of 10 fuel injectors are not bad electrically but
dirty.
Also you need to make sure the injector is getting a pulse from the PCM
module. You can get a noid light for this purpose. You could replace
the
injector or do an improvised cleaning on your own. I have a procedure
for
doing that but will have to search for it. Also, you are sure it is not
the
spark plug or respective wire? Which spark plugs are you using by brand
and
heat range?

On the tranny solenoids, they are located under the side cover assembly
(driver's side of car) with the valve body. They are not located under
the
tranny so dropping the pan will not help. If you have a lot of patience
and
some technical knowledge (basic) and aren't afraid to DIY it the work
can be
done in about 6 - 8 hours for a first timer. Everthing on the driver's
side
of the engine blocking the way must be removed - PCM/Air Box, cruise
control, range switch, abs motor loosened up, splash guardss,etc. The
tranny
does not have to be removed. There are several bolts that hold the side
cover on and some are hard to get to. Also tranny must be drained of
ATF. If
side cover is removed you will need new side cover gaskets for
re-assembly.
Although not necessary it is recommended to jack up driver's side of
car,
remove wheel, brakes and the hub/bearing assembly. This will allow
removal
of the drive axle halfshaft. Sometimes removing the drive axle will
help in
getting the side cover off and give more room to work and access bolts,
etc.

Once side cover is off solenoids are accessible. Only one bolt holds
them to
the valve body. The PCS is located on the left side of valve body. 1-2
left
side and 2-3 right side. TCC-PWM left side. Side cover much be properly
torqued to specs during re-assembly."


Thanks to Bob for this FAST advice

Update----I swapped the injectors from cyl 2 to cyl....and 4 to cyl 2 to see if my problem would move to cyl 4..... and while I had them out I cleaned them with Gumout......low and behold, put them back in......reset the codes and the car is running great. NO CYL 2 orr 4 MISSFIRE! I also took the EGR valve off and cleaned it with Gumout...and all seems well there too now

Anyway.....thanks for the advice....nice to know I have some help out there when I need it. Thought I was maybe going to have a burnt valve on cly 2.....(and then I would have had to get into the top of the motor...and would have just been forced to install roller rockers while there!!!hehehehe) but.....all went well instead.


Thanks agian....now, should I tackle that Solonoid problem??? LOL......think I will wait for a long weekend on that one!!



Ernie

glad to hear that is all that it was. for future reference, you might try running a bottle of fuel injecter cleaner at least once a month. even if you use the cheap cleaner, at will still keep you from running into these probs every once in awhile. had a 98 s10 and i was told by the dealer that my injecters were shot and i need to replace all 4- i ran a 12 dollar bottle of cleaner through them and have put 38000 more miles on her and she is still running like a champ. i know the cheap stuff runs as low as a buck or two, but if it would keep you from having to pull injecters, it is probably worth it. just a suggestion...

Jimmy...agreed. I had been doing that pretty regular...and got a little lazy about it.....but...you can count this...NO MORE. I will be putting some in once a month now!

I prefer Seafoam for just about everything fuel related. It packs a lot of punch.

When it comes to injector cleaners, it's similar to 2-4-D spray for dandelions. You can buy the cheap stuff at home depot and kill half of the weeds you spray or you can go to an AG store and get higher concentrate spray and kill all the weeds.

Seafoam is highly concentrated, has been around for ever and is about $5 for a can that will treat about 30gal.

Seafoam is great stuff...the tranny treatment is excellent too