!!!rod help!!!!

Well to make a long story short.
My car threw a rod and I was going to attempt to rebuild the engine but someone suggested I just pull a donor engine so I did. I pulled another engine and dropped it in and it ran roughly but ran. Now that was just a temporary fix because I want to put my original engine back in after I fix the thrown rod. So my question is...
Can I pull the rods from the donor engine if they are good and put them into my original engine?
Can I just take my old rod out of the broken engine, go to the junk yard and match it?
Or should I just poney up the money and buy a rod and piston rebuild kit?

Engines that have actually thrown a rod are simply junk and should not be rebuilt.

The thrown rod tends to flail around during the last few rotations of the crankshaft and hammer away on other crank case components, including the block, oil pan, adjacent rods, pistons etc. Inevitably such components are chipped, cracked and weakened.Also often the cranks are twisted or broken.

Even if they look okay, the damage/stress these parts have suffered opens the door for future failures.

Let me correct myself. I didn't mean thrown a rod I meant a rod was cracked, I didn't know there was a difference.
The long story was the previous owner had cracked a rod when he did an oil change, started the engine with the oil plug and filter off because he thought that whould get every drop of oil out for a full oil change and the rod cracked right on start up.
He didn't move it when it happened he just left it in his driveway where it sat for a lil less than a year when I bought it and had it towed to my house. I didn't drive the car or anything, I just pulled the engine out and dropped in a donor engine.
But by looking at it the rod is cracked, but everything else looks good.

You can use the rod from the engine you put in the car. Just make sure to use the rod cap from the donor rod as well. If you are going to go to that length why don't you pull the entire engine apart and put new rings and bearings in it as well. Not to mention new head gaskets and lower intake manifold gaskets. You will have everything off the engine anyway to replace the rod so this would be an ideal time to do this and since you have it out of the car you won't have any space considerations.

I also caution you that if he cracked one rod he probably damaged the crank and other rods not to mention what he may have done to the cylinder walls and the pistons. Take advantage of the opportunity and you will have a good engine ready to go back into the car.

Thank You GTP DAD for your help.
Should I just buy a rod and piston kit, the one I was looking at at Kragens said it has all of the items needed to basically replace my Rods and Pistons back to a new engine.
Or would an entire rebuild kit be better?

If you're going to do a rebuild on an engine, it's always smartest to do it right, meaning do everything. The engine is only as strong as it's weakest part. Since you're going to have to tear the engine down, it's better to spend a few extra dollars now that have to spend a lot more later because you didn't do it right the first time.

I have to agree with Tri-power. If you are going to rebuild the engine then purchase everything you need to do it right. So I recommend the entire rebuild kit. Make sure that you check the cylinders for taper and wear before you purchase the kit because if the cylinders are out of round you will want to have it bored oversize and then you will need larger pistons and rings. You will also want a new oil pump! Good Luck!!

Not to mention if there's a crack inside the cylinger wall, the only way to save it would be to have the cylinders sleeved. Before you do anything else to it, have the block magnafluxed to make sure it's still worth using. Then you can have it machined and then you can rebuild it. The more work you put into it now, the less you will in the future.

Thanks everyone.
Now I just have to find a good machine shop around here. To get everything done to it so I can have a nice smooth ride. After I get all of this done I just have to work on putting in a nicer suspension so my ride can be smooth as possible.
Does anyone know about how much it'll cost to get the block magnafluxed and machined?

Like everything else it depends on the amount of work that is needed. Extensive machining can cost lots of money but just to magniflux and rebore if necessary will probably cost in the $400 range. Magnifluxing will cost about $150 depending on the shop. Unless you really want to do the work yourself you may want to search for a reman short or long block it may actually be cheaper and a whole lot less time consuming. And it will come with a warranty!

(By the way what size and year is this engine?)

What is a reman short?
The 87 Oldsmobile ninety eight.
The engine is a 3800 6 cylinder.

Sorry for the abreviation. A remanufactured short block. That is the block with the cam, crank, pistons, rods, timing gears and chain.

O. I could've guessed that I was just half sleep. Do machine shops sell them or would I just have to search around?

Or the other option of getting the long block. Where you only ned to add the oil pan, intake, valve covers, and water pump, with gaskets. Everything else comes off your old motor.

Most machine shops do not sell them. Search the net remanufactured engines. You can find one on e-bay from time to time. You can also search rock-auto.com or gmpartsdirect.com for a short or long block.

just a quick update. I checked my local auto-zone. No luck.

So I checked my local kragens. They sell engines.

Now I'm waiting for the money.

And now my car wont start at all. The guy from Kragens lives right by me and wanted to check out the engine so he tried starting the car and the only thing that happened is the car tried to turn over and the lights dimmed.

I didn't want to try starting it with the cracked rod so I didn't start it for a while.

The guy says the cracked rod shouldn't stop the car from starting and I may wont to trace that problem down so I can fix everything @ once.

Is this a good idea or does he not know what he's talking about?

Yes it is a good idea to check out the problem and try to solve it that way the car will be ready to go when you get the new engine.

Alright thankis for the help GTP dad.

Its a new battery so I'll start by checking the other obvious possibilities.

One thing to check is to make sure the battery is fully charged. Sometimes even new batteries can be weak. Also check the grounds and the connections to the starter. They are the most obvious places to start. Also make sure you are getting fuel. An easy way to check for spark is to spray a little starting fluid in the throttle body. If it fires then check the fuel system. Sometimes fuel pumps will go bad if a car sits for an extended period of time. Let me know what happens.

Well I even tried jump starting the car today so I THINK I can rule out the battery.

But when I turn the key the engine All of the lights dim, (the dash almost completely turns off) and it only tries to turn over one time before silence.

I hear the fuel pump turn on so I don't think its bad.

According to my Haynes Repair Manual it can be a number of things so where should I start.

O and GTP Dad thanks for all your help, I'm going to spray a lil starting fluid in the throttle body tomorrow and see if that helps.

Could bad spark plugs stop the engine from turning over?

I know you said you tried to jump it, but it still sounds like a battery or starting problem. Try jumping the car directly from the other car by bypassing your battery. You can do this by connecting the positive directly to the battery positive cable and the negative to a motor ground, like the motor bracket. If you still cant get it to crank over, try looking into the starter or solenoid.

Check all grounds, a bad ground can cause the problems you speak of and can cause a failure of the car to turn over properly. But check the starter connections too like tri-power said.

Well I took tri-powers advice and connected the jumper pack directly to the car. No luck
Now the car doesn't even attempt to turn over.
When I turn the key all of the lights turn off until I release the key.
All of the connections are good.
Someone told me it may be the alternator, I am going to take the alternator out and get it tested.

I bought a jumper pack and hooked that up directly to my engine as tri-power said, lil luck.
Back to old symptoms, trying to turn over but will not.
Still taking alternator in to see if it is bad, also taking battery to see if it is dead/dying.

I was hoping I wouldn't have to do this but I have to go under the car and pull out the starter to get it tested.

Any hints/tips.

Well by trying to directly jump the car by bypassing the battery, you have ruled out the battery as being "The" source of your problem. This doesn't mean that it's ok but it's not your biggest problem. I doubt that the alternator is the culprit but getting it tested wouldn't hurt. It's definitely a good bet that it's in the starting system. Either the starter solenoid or the relay. I would make sure the battery is at full charge then try starting it again. If nothing or it starts hard, then have the solenoid checked. I know it's a pain to remove but I've seen that be the problem more often than not. I can't say thats the only solution but I think thats the right way to go. Hopefully you can find it soon.

Hopefully. I am going to pull out the starter monday, (not tomorrow SuperBowl)
From what I read in my Chilton manuel it is just 3 bolts and some wires, (I bet its a lot harder than it sounds)
The battery is good, I had it checked and recharged. I even tried 2 different batteries
Alternator checked out good. It passed all 3 tests
- Lamp/Diode Trio
- Regulator
- Rectifier

I checked every fuse with a line tester
Traced all wiring, everything is working finely
Checked all cables, all have power running through them
No corrosion anywhere
The belt is a little cracked/frayed but it is not to tight or loose

Engine attempts to turn over
There is gas
I hear the fuel pump coming on

The starter is the only other thing I think it can possibly be

Can bad spark plugs cause a problem like this?

If it's trying to turn over now then it's probably not the starter. But it the system is the same as before then the solenoid is probably bad.

Ifit's cranking over fine but won't start, check the coil pack for spark to the cylinders. You may have a weak pack or ICM. Plugs could cause a problem but it would be easy to diagnose that. Pull them and see if they are burned out and check gap.

Alright.
Since its attempting to turn over its more likely the solenoid?

Since I'll have to pull out the starter to get to the solenoid should I just get them both tested?

Can you even test a solenoid?

O and when you say a weak pack or ICM I have no idea what you mean. So it would be pretty hard for me to check that out.

If it's attempting to turn over, I'd say leave the starter alone for now. Lets check spark. The coil pack is the part delivering spark to the cylinders. Your car doesn't have a distributor so it ises the coil pack instead. The icm is located right under the coil pack. Both are connected togther so it may look like one unit. It's located in front on the passengers side, and should be easily identifyable by the spark plug wires connected to it. If you find one wire not recieving spark, then the wire directly across from it should also be without spark. If you find that none have spark, then the icm is bad.

O. Thank You.
I thought I had a distributor, so the place where all the spark plugs are it the coil pack.
To test it I will need a ohmmeter?
Or is there another way I can do it?
O and if a wire is not recieving spark how do i fix it?

First of all have you checked the codes on the ECM? I've had a firebird that didn't pull any codes, including the diagnostic code 12. It was replaced and the car ran fine.

After we have the ECM ruled out, we can look at the ignition system. The coil pack is actually three packs in one. Check them by using a sprak gauge which you can find at any parts store. It plugs inline of the plug wire. The other trick is to just leave the wire disconnected next to the post. The spark should jump to the wire. If you find a dead cylinder, check the wire directly across from it. You should get the same result. If no wires get spark, you need to replace the ICM. If you get spark to some of the wires but not all, then you need to replace the coil pack. If all get spark, then we need to look somewhere else.

My car only pulls out a code 12. Which I hear is normal.

I took a look at the coil pack. I noticed that it is three packs in one, but I didn't know how to check it, so I asked you. (Thanks for the response)

Do I check the wires one at a time?

Does it help if it is dark so I can see the spark better or will it be obvious?

And if I find out that one of the coils is bad can I just replace that coil or do I have to replace all 3?

Like I said before each coil controls 2 cylinders. But the coils are molded into one body so you have to replace the whole unit. I test the coils in daylight, the spark usually strong enough to see. It's just like the spark to the plug, jus on the other side of the wire. I wouldn't suggest doing it in the direct sunlight because it might hinder you view. Test one at a time while the car is trying to turn over. I've never tried to test while attempting to start because I've never run into this problem of yours. I normally test it the redneck way, while the cars running pull the wire. Normally you don't even need to see the spark because you can feel the current going through you. Test one plug wire at a time. If you don get a spark in one, the one opposite should be without spark. It's normal. That means that the coil is probably bad. Try pulling the next one in the row. If you get on spark in that one either, it's possible an ICM problem. Take not this is a 2 person job.

Well I just tested and 1 out of 3 coils did not fire.

So I guess the coil is bad and not the ICM?

I am going to pull a completely working coil from my friends car and see if that starts the car.

Is there anything else I should check out?

One step at a time. It might not sole the problem, but we're eliminating things.

Well.

I changed the coils and now all have spark. (Even though the middle ones spark isn't as strong as the others)

The car sounds better/stronger when it is trying to turn over.
(sounds as if it is getting closer to turning over)

But it is still not starting.

I was going through other forums and someone who had the same problem mentioned something called the crank position sensor.

Maybe I should try that next?

Thats probably a good place to go. BTW if I remember correctly. When you first posted about this car, you said the previous owner ran this motor without oil. Am I correct? If you changed the motor, did you switch computers or no? I ask this because I"m trying to figure out what might be wrong without you having to replace everything.

I didn't change motors.

I ended up just fixing what he broke.

Is there another name for the crank position sensor because the book I have doesn't have it in the glossary.

I have a chilton manual and all it lists is
* coolant temperature
* oil pressure
* knock sensor (which i never heard of)
* oxygen sensor

So I tried going to www.autozone.com/repairinfo and all they list is
* coolant temperature sensor
* engine temperature sensor
* M.A.P sensor
* oxygen sensor
* throttle position sensor

Could throttle position sensor be the same thing with another name?

Advance auto parts had a listing and even a picture of the part.

http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductList.aspx?PartType=762&PTSet=A&SearchFor=Crank%20Position%20Sensor

Advance auto parts had a listing and even a picture of the part.

http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductList.aspx?PartType=762&PTSet=A&SearchFor=Crank%20Position%20Sensor

Thanks for the link.

If I buy from them does it come with instructions as to where it is?

Autozone also had the part but they didn't have any info about the whereabouts of the part in the engine.

Is it anywhere near the starter?

Or is it behind the harmonic balancer (if I have one, another component not mentioned in my manual)?

Under crankshaft the book lists
* crankshaft and connecting rod
- specifications
* crandshaft and main bearings
- bearing replacement
- inspection
- removal & installation
* crankshaft damper
- removal & installaion

Are any of these the sensor with a differnt name?

Can I get the sensor tested before I buy a new one?

As long as it is a 3800 engine can I use the one out of it as a donor until I buy a new one?

Or does it have to be same year and model as my Olds?

There's another link on the link I gave you in the part that tells which application the part works on.

As for the location, I"m not sure, I've never had to replace one.Haynes emissions manual describes the part and how it works in case you're wondering.

Thanks for that link (again)

I am going to check on the crank position sensor after I try spraying gas into the throttle body. (which I'm trying to get completely clear)

Considering that everything in this car is most likely the original parts I think bad fuel injectors is a possibility but I also think even with that fixed there will be many more problems.

Since I'm going to replace the fuel injectors can I just put the gas/starting fluid in there and get the same results as putting it through the air intake?

Or do I have to pull off the intake and spray the fluid into it?

*Sorry if I ask a lot of questions but this is the only place I have to learn my teacher doesn't help at all, my uncle (who is a mechanic) moved about 2 hours away, none of my friends are into cars. My girlfriend likes cars but she's a book person and I'm hands on so it doesn't really work out.

Do not pur raw fuel into the throttle body. You'll mess up the system and possibly have a big fire. What you should do is have someone crank the motor and fog the starting fliud into the throttle body. If it starts to sputter like it wants to go, then the fuel system should be addressed. The intake is a dry manifold system, meaning that only air flows through it. It's basically direct prot injection. A wet manifold system is like whats on Carb and TBI models.

Alright so I should use starting fluid?
I can get some tomorrow from autozone.

So I take off the air filter hose and mist it into there.
Or is there something else I take off in order to do it?

Is this the only way to get to the throttle body?

Will professional fuel injector cleaner (not the kind you put into the gas tank) be better than the kind you put into the tank?

Well to be honest, I've never used the professional stuff so I don't know much about it. Yes cou just remove the hose from the throttle body and spray while the car is turning over and listen for it attempting to fire. Just keep in mind to clear any debris and foriegn mattre up on the engine near the throttle body. You don't want this stuff getting inside the engine. And yes you want to use starting fluid. Try not to get carried away with it.

Alright I got the starting fluid.

Could this be a timing problem?

Is the timing even adjustable?