Programmer Questions

So I am considering buying a handheld programmer (probably excal2 or predator)for my 01 GT (has cai and a catback), and had a few questions

1: Are the gains really as high as they are advertised?(i believe they are advertised at 15-20 on a stock GT)

2: Could an idiot like me do it? I have basic mechanical knowelege, but not much pertaining to high tech electronics

3: If i choose to run regular gas most of the time, can i reset it for more performance when I choose run premium? Or am i stuck with whatever fuel type it is initially tuned for?

4: What mods would get me more performance out of the tuner? I heard they work well with intake components (ie CAI, throttle body, plenum, etc)

5: Is it completely plug and play? Or would I have to hit the dyno time and time again to get the gains out of it?

6: What exactly do they "tune"? I would assume it is your time and spark but I could be wrong....

I'm sure I will think of more questions in the near future, but any input would be greatly appreciated. THX

Hopefully, i will be able to imput soon. I'm looking at one on ebay and i should have "buy it now"ed it, but i bid and now it won't let me, so i emailed him to work something out. Anyways, i was about to ask BlackGT2000 about the performance gains in the other thread, but this is better.

diablosport.com sais they are programmed to do nothing but 93 octane, which sucks, but there is some kind of download program where you can get different tunes. i guess spark and fuel is all they really tune. This is for the predator:

Dual timing adjustment points (2000-4000 RPM / 4000-7000 RPM)
Timing table (+10% / -40%)
Dual fuel adjustment points (2000-4000 RPM / 4000-7000 RPM)
Fuel table (+40% / -15%)
Idle (+/- 20%)
On/Off switch for Traction Control
Raise Speed Limiter
Rev Limiter
Re-Calibrate Speedometer for Gear and Tire Size Changes
WOT Shift Pressure
Part throttle shift firmness
RPM Shift Points
Torque Modulation (for better shift feel)
Cooling Fan ON/OFF Temperatures
Rear Oxygen sensor disable (use for off-road vehicles only)
Disable EGR (use for off-road vehicles only)
All of these parameters can be adjusted on the DiabloSport tune and/or the factory tune

And this from SCT:

Wide Open Throttle:
-6% Leaner to 14% Richer
Global Spark:
-5 to +5 degrees
RPM Adjustment Spark:
0 - 2000RPM: -14 to +4 degrees
2000 - 4000RPM: -8 to +4 degrees
4000 - 8000RPM: -8 to +4 degrees

Diagnose Check Engine Lights & Clear Trouble Codes
Gear Ratio Selection:
2.73 to 5.14 Ratios
MAF Meter Selection:
80mm to 90mm Lightning SCT Big Air BA-2400 & BA-2800 MAF Meters
Tire Size Selection:
205/65/15 to 315/35/19
Fuel Injector Size Selection:
19lb to 60lb Fuel Injectors
Idle RPM: -300 to +300RPM
Cooling Fan: On / Off Temp
Traction Control: On / Off
Two Step: On / Off & RPM
Automatic Transmission Shift Schedule:
WOT 1st - 2nd: -3 to +7mph
WOT 2nd - 3rd: -4 to +8mph
WOT 3rd - 4th: -5 to +10mph
WOT 4th - 5th: -5 to +10mph

This may not have helped any, but oh well.

1: with the tune they come with no. You can loose power with the preprogrammed tune (I lost over 8hp with the tune)
2: yes you could use one but I wouldn't go all out with changing everything (don’t even attempt to mess with the AFR unless you are on a dyno)
3: you’re stuck with premium
4: any non major mod (cams and power adders get more gains from a real tune and not a programmer)
5: its plug and play but to see the most gains out of it you need to use a dyno
6: too much to list, they can do anything from change your AFR to turning off the TCS

What all have you done to the car? It may be more cost effective to spend the money on other mods at this point in time.

I've seen stock Escorts go from 109whp to 125whp(just an example) with just a good chip tune, I'm sure a v8 would have more to pull depending on the computer code.
(all Ford computer codes have different stock timing and fuel maps, which is why 2 cars can be stock and an almost 8whp difference)

IE:
A PCM that Ford did a nice job on would say only gain about 4-5whp when chipped, where as one Ford really seemed to not know how to tune a car (I've seen them via access to SCT files...kinda makes you laugh at Ford a lot) may gain almost 20.

That's also not counting spots in the powerband..I have a dyno of 2 stock computers from the Escort ZX2...at 6100rpm one code makes 19whp/15wtq more then another....that's just a FACTORY difference.

In that case a chip would not only help peak power, but also fix that huge powerloss at 6100rpm.

thanks for the input all, just heard about how effective they were. i saw the advertisement for them and just wondered if they actually would gain you what they say they will. Mods for me right now are just a catback and CAI. I also have n20, however i never really use it so i think i am going to sell it to my friend who just bought an 03 gt

thanks for the input all, just heard about how effective they were. i saw the advertisement for them and just wondered if they actually would gain you what they say they will. Mods for me right now are just a catback and CAI. I also have n20, however i never really use it so i think i am going to sell it to my friend who just bought an 03 gt

I would say its a useful tool, I mean you can change settings for gears and clear codes(never had to do that yet) and a hand full of other things. I didn't notice much difference. I don't feel that it hurt my performance though, although I wouldn't doubt that there are cases that it has hurt performance. And yes its all premium fuel now.

Mods for me right now are just a catback and CAI. I also have n20, however i never really use it so i think i am going to sell it to my friend who just bought an 03 gt
For your mods its just not worth it. Save your money and spend it on something like wheels. With your future plans you are going to need more traction. It wouldn't be worth it till you get gears or a mid pipe that throws a code, then when you do more say your SC sell it and get a real tune.

i beg to differ with that...a well tuned chip can give both more power, beter milage, and well....an over all more fun car.

You can even tell the PCM how fast to bild timing..as many ford PCM's when you downshift the pcm will built timing more slowly then when you just run threw the gears, which is why 3rd or 2nd will feel slower when you downshift to it, then when you stat from a stop and just punch it.


this how ever maynot effect cobras, i know it effects a large amount of other fords (escorts, focus(svt), contour(svt), taurus, f-series, v6 stangs..)

i beg to differ with that...a well tuned chip can give both more power, beter milage, and well....an over all more fun car.
There in is the problem...A hand held programer is not a "well tuned chip". Even a custom tune from Diablo does not make it a "well tuned chip" as it is based off of compiled data from several cars and not data gathered from the specific car the tune is for.

I know the benefits that a real tune will have I also know the benefits of a hand held programer. They both have there place but for optimal gains from a hand held tuner a dyno must be used even then there is more power that could be gaind through the use of a good dyno tuned chip. I currently still run a Pred. and will till I get my new gears after which time I will get a real tune and put the Pred. up on ebay and or a board.

On a car with verry mild mods the money would be better surved as going toward other go fast mods or (my fav) suspension. Had he had gears I would have said yes go for the hand held tuner as the tuner can correct for the gear difference.

Well I have pretty much decided against the tuner for now. At this point I am mainly concerned with building power more than anything. I am just going to be getting some money here soon and am going to be modding my mustang a little more. My only mods right now are a CAI, and the SLP Loudmouth cat-back. So I have decided to spend my money elsewhere. What do you guys thing for these beginning mods and how much power do you think they will give me in all?

Intake Plenum and 70/75mm Throttle Body
Underdrive Pullys
MAFS
SLP Off-Road X-Pipe
BBK Shorty Headers

you can tweak your own tune with a hand held programs...thats why so many get the Xcal2 from SCT. you can tweak a lot of the tune...Ifyou get the Pro Racer Package you can tune EVERY aspect of the PCM...you can fix a lot of tuning issues just by looking at the tune and feeling how the car performs without a dyno..a good tuner will only get maybe 2-5whp from a dyno perfected tune.

a good tuner will only get maybe 2-5whp from a dyno perfected tune.
WHAT????

This is a hell of a lot more than 2-5rwhp gains on a mostly stock Mach1 from a Dyno tune.
http://www.ccstuning.com/2k4mach1dyno.jpg

Intake Plenum and 70/75mm Throttle Body
Underdrive Pullys
MAFS
SLP Off-Road X-Pipe
BBK Shorty Headers
Sounds like good plans just two things. With a Off-Road X-pipe you will gain highend HP but at the cost of lowend Tq. I would sugest a catted X-pipe since you well see the lowend Tq more than the highend HP gaind from an Off-Road X-pipe. Underdrive pullies need to be profesionaly installed and made sure that they are properly lined up other wise they can eat in to the front plate.

Thanks for the input, a few more questions. Do I still need the 02 sensor eliminators if I go with a catted xpipe? And is a plenum and throttle body easy enough to install at home? And would I benefit more from a 70mm or a 75mm?

WHAT????

This is a hell of a lot more than 2-5rwhp gains on a mostly stock Mach1 from a Dyno tune.
http://www.ccstuning.com/2k4mach1dyno.jpg


then who ever did his base tune had no idea what he was doing..as i siad you can drive a car and tweak it to where you need it, i know peopel that did a run b4 the had a chip, 1 dyno with a base line tune, then went home did ther owne tweak (like i said earlier) and came back w/ much better power and when they dyno tue it they only get 5ish whp.....its not hard to tune your car better then a shop.

I ma not saying a no chip vs dyno tuned chip...i am saying a chip w/ an owner tweaked tune vs a dyno tune. All you really need is a baseline dyno to see what the car needs, there is no REAL need for a dyno tuned chip unless you have a lot of other modifications and want that little bit that can be brought out...or you added FI.

As long as you know what your timing and A/F limits are then its not hard to do a proper home tune w/o a dyno.

Some catted X-pipes do throw a code. My Bassani catted X-pipe does but on some cars it doesn't. The plenum and throttle body are easy installs. A 75mm should be ok for NA and is what you will need for the Vortech.

Some catted X-pipes to thow a code. I have a Bassani catted X-pipe and it does throw a code on my car but on some it doesn't. The plenum and throttle body are an easy home install. I would go with a 75mm throttle body since you do have plans to install a Vortech.

I have heard that the bigger throttle body would be needed for the SC, However I heard that too big of a T-Body on a car that isnt that well modded can actually produce a loss in power, is this true?

then who ever did his base tune had no idea what he was doing..as i siad you can drive a car and tweak it to where you need it, i know peopel that did a run b4 the had a chip, 1 dyno with a base line tune, then went home did ther owne tweak (like i said earlier) and came back w/ much better power and when they dyno tue it they only get 5ish whp.....its not hard to tune your car better then a shop.

I ma not saying a no chip vs dyno tuned chip...i am saying a chip w/ an owner tweaked tune vs a dyno tune. All you really need is a baseline dyno to see what the car needs, there is no REAL need for a dyno tuned chip unless you have a lot of other modifications and want that little bit that can be brought out...or you added FI.

As long as you know what your timing and A/F limits are then its not hard to do a proper home tune w/o a dyno.
That base was a Pred tune.

2004 Mustang Mach 1
Client previously had Predator tuning installed. We spent 30 minutes tuning this vehicle. The tests and tuning were performed
on a hot engine. Client likes the displayed power gains, and comments that they look much better than previous dyno results
with the other tuning, which were tested on a DynoJet dyno. We gained 22.5hp and 34.2 torque, at the peaks. Went to the track with
client, and he commented that previously, with the other tuning, he had to shift into 4th gear, before the end of a quarter mile run,
because it did not pull very hard at the top of the powerband. With CCS TUNING, he ran through the 1/4, strongly, and could
finish his run in 3rd gear, and said it was pulling plenty hard all the way through. See the gains all the way from 1500 rpm on up?

9th dyno run on this page
http://www.ccstuning.com/dynoresults.htm


The guy knows what he is doing he has been doing it for years. Hell Diablo contacted him for data to be used on the Pred.

98StangGT check out the link I posted above the 5th dyno chart is a friend of mines 01GT. He had a MAC CAI, MAC 70mm TB, C&L plenum, MAC catback, FRPP alum d/s, FRPP 4.10s, and HyperTech 160 degree thermostat when he made that dyno run but his car is also a Automatic so the numbers are lower than what you would see.

and i was sayng...if the car owner took the time and looked around for what the mach1 motor likes he could have retuned the chip himself and then when he decided to have a shop dyno tune it he would have only gotten a fraction what was gained on the dyno, by himself he could have pulled high teens HP and 20's TQ if he took the time to.

IMO unless you want to tune in camgears, need a F/I tune for a car thats not F/I stock, or are COMPLETLY DONE MODIFYING and just want that tiny bit extra there is really no need for a dynotune.

If that Mach1 owner plans to keep modifying his car he wasted a lot of money as he could have done very close to what the shop did himself.....and now he will have to redyno tune when he gets more mods, now if you do like I say and do a home tune, you will save money, by only having to pay for 1 dyno tune...not 2.

A lot of times just doing 2 dyno runs and going home to tweak the chip yourself may not make the MOST power, but will save a lot of money untill you are done doing other mods to the car.

This is a late post but i bought some UDP's recently and put em on in like 30 minutes. I don't really see how you could do it wrong or mess anything up.

if they arnt on tight and the crank inst internaly ballanced you can get crankwalk