Another Turbonator?

Whaddya guys think? Saw this link making another post... Seems expensive.

http://www.gogreenfuel.com/index.html

maybe worth while if your a high milage driver. according to their own numbers that system will pay for it self in 271 months.... almost 23 years. for a fleet of cars/trucks it could be a decent idea. but since i've put maybe 14,000 miles in almost 3 years its a waste.

Flat out BS. If this product this even a tenth of what it claimed they wouldn't be selling it to private parties, they'de be selling it manufacturers. This way they would not only be making more money than they could spend, they'd also be fulfilling their claimed mission of protecting the environment be ensuring that all new cars got this technology. Manufacturers would kill for this kind of claimed reduction because it would let them sell more SUVs without killing their CAFE scores and they could more agressively tune their engines for more power while still meeting emissions requirements.

This is just another case of something sounding just plausible enough to sucker people into buying it, but proven to be worthless by the companies that have the resources to really verify the claims.

My neighbor has this installed on an Expedition. Apparently it's not BS to him because he is getting the system installed on all his vehicles. I want to get one just to help protect the environment. :)

I used their savaings calculator and it will only take me about 1 1/2 years to pay it off, I think you messed up on your math.

My neighbor has this installed on an Expedition. Apparently it's not BS to him because he is getting the system installed on all his vehicles. I want to get one just to help protect the environment. :)

What utter drivel...

Want to protect the environment? Keep your rig tuned up. Seriously. Gadgets like this are a complete waste of time, ESPECIALLY on vortex scavenging engines like our 4.3 *Vortech*engines. Why do you think the engine is named the way it is? Already a cyclonic induction system is built into the engine, from the factory. Keep it tuned and clean and feed it good, fresh gas and you'll do more to protect the environment than some boxed, splederific, overglorified POS that doesn't benefit our engines one bit. Oh, and recycle all used fluids and fix leaks *immediately*. There ya go - the key to responsible, green driving already laid out.

It may work on the Ford Expedition because - well face it, they need all the help they can get. And they do not have a cyclone-like induction system. :icon16:

EDIT:(Reads Link)
OMG...not another one of these hokey electrolysis units!? DAMN! These things need MORE power than they return to the engine to generate the hydrogen/oxygen gasses they feed into the intake stream. That electrical power that they need to operate is taken from your engine's alternator and battery. You then have to burn MORE gasoline to keep up with the load imposed on the charging system to keep these gadgets working properly. Total, total green-hooey advertiser-spin on a totally JUNK product.

What utter drivel...

Want to protect the environment? Keep your rig tuned up. Seriously. Gadgets like this are a complete waste of time, ESPECIALLY on vortex scavenging engines like our 4.3 *Vortech*engines. Why do you think the engine is named the way it is? Already a cyclonic induction system is built into the engine, from the factory. Keep it tuned and clean and feed it good, fresh gas and you'll do more to protect the environment than some boxed, splederific, overglorified POS that doesn't benefit our engines one bit. Oh, and recycle all used fluids and fix leaks *immediately*. There ya go - the key to responsible, green driving already laid out.

It may work on the Ford Expedition because - well face it, they need all the help they can get. And they do not have a cyclone-like induction system. :icon16:

Check his profile. He's from the same town as the website that sells these. Coincidence?

Before we sound the shill alarm, we'll give him a good three pace head start... ;) Sorry about editing my post on ya in your post, I actually took time to read the link. Electrolysis....fneh. People have been trying to use this angle to generate fuel for Hydorgen Fuel cell cars until they figured out that it took MORE energy in electricity to seperate the elemental gasses than when they were recombined and combusted in the engine. Back to the drawing board - but not before they dump these devices on the market with enough spin and using "green key words" to make people sleep warm, happy and fuzzy at night.

WAKE UP folks - some sh*t doesn't, nor ever will work. ;)

Hey, only 115.2 months payback for me. That's based on 20,000 miles a year at 30 MPG (I have an 4 banger Alero as my daily driver). At 2.50 a gallon, it'll be paid for when it's almost 17 years old and at the bottom of the scrap heap.

Dear Wolfox, blazee, tangent,
I'm not a sales person, I just stated my neighbor has some installed and his vehicles - and his emissions tests show an 80% reduction in emissions, improved horsepower, was getting 12.5 MPG and is now getting 16 MPG.
You guys need to calm the F down, and research the product before you come to conclusions.
Anywho, I want to save gas and the environment, so I plan on purchasing one for my car soon. And it only takes a couple years to pay off, guess you guys need to learn addition and subtraction....lol

If there were no thermal losses (which there are with flowing 30 amps through a circuit), the breaking of water into hydrogen and oxygen and then reburning them to reform water will net you exactly zero. There is no way this device does anything except move water from the jar to the exhaust.

Thermodynamics is impossible to fight. It is one of the few truths in the world.

I think that was Wolfox's point (basic addition and subtraction). You see.. there's this principle that states energy can not be created nor destroyed, only transformed. Man's obvious lack of any efficient conversion method suggests that this device is only going to rob power from somewhere else (more than it's creating, I mean). That said, our vehicles come with decent alternators so you never know... I suppose it's possible it could just be using "extra" energy. Now that I think of it, I think I might finally do the E-fan mod.

I'm not going to nay say seeing as none of us have tried it, but my gut tells me that potential flaws/drawbacks have not been put forth, numbers may have been exaggerated based on already inconsistent and uncontrolled testing, testimonials may have been based on placebo effects, and overall the product is probably too good to be true.

Also I'm going to have to call a major bullsht on your year and a half claim:

At current gas prices, to pay this thing off in a year and a half you'd need to drive a Hummer (~10mpg) 50,000 miles. So basically you'd need to spend about 770 hours (about 2 hours a day) at freeway speeds, every day just to cover the mileage. Do you drive a hummer ~135 miles a day?

Time to leave la la land for reality bud.

475.1 months for me HA HA HA

Back from la, la land, Tell these guys they are wasting their time on hydrogen fuel...I think the oil empires have you by the balls.

Open your eyes fools.

Start here http://www.emagazine.com/view/?171
There are also many groups about hydrogen fuel - just search for them.

http://hy-drive.com/main/default.asp

http://www.burnh20.com/

http://www.chechfi.com/

http://www.gogreenfuel.com/

Back from la, la land, Tell these guys they are wasting their time on hydrogen fuel...I think the oil empires have you by the balls.

Open your eyes fools.

Start here http://www.emagazine.com/view/?171
There are also many groups about hydrogen fuel - just search for them.

http://hy-drive.com/main/default.asp

http://www.burnh20.com/

http://www.chechfi.com/

http://www.gogreenfuel.com/

It's becoming pretty obvious that this guy is either selling or installing these paperweights. He thought that he could come in here, play it cool, and dupe some of us into buying this junk. BUT......

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/3737/misccunningplan16uz.jpg

lol you let him off easy blazee way too easy.Are you reforming?

Is this forum for kids only? Lataz guys.

lol you let him off easy blazee way too easy.Are you reforming?
I wasn't trying to be mean to him, he has as much right to say that it works as we do to say that it doesn't. So far in this thread he is the only one who has broken any of the forum rules. The other posters have talked about the product, he has talked about them. I hope that we can keep it that way so that if this goes any further and one of the mods decides to ban him, he can't use us as an excuse to get it reversed.

Please ban me! Or I'm gonna drop one of these rednecks.

Sorry guy, you just can't beat thermodynamics. Hydrogen as a fuel has nothing to do with this. You have to be able to add.

Is this forum for kids only? Lataz guys.

I see... Your "It does so!" argument gets trumped by the laws of thermodynamics and simple math and this is the best you can do? Petty insults?

If you could at least show us some of your extensive research that has something, anything besides anecdotal evidence I'd be happy to look at it. The closest was the one website that said that the tests were conducted by a 3rd party not affiliated with them. They never even mentioned who did the test or provide contact information for the testing firm. Why has no reputable group tested this and sung its praises? I could create a system in my garage to sell through my corporation and then pay my neighbor $1000 to "test" it. He'd be an unaffiliated 3rd party and I'd have the data I wanted.

How were the tests conducted? What controls were there on the fuel used during the test, what was the weather like, how did they ensure that the test cycle itself was identical from the test with and the test without the unit? Based on my driving habits my own fuel economy can vary by even more than their claimed improvement. I can even get that kind of improvement on the very same route if I decide to drive in an efficient manner.

Most of the links you gave were about Hydrogen as a fuel in general, not this physics-defying gadget. The cool thing about using Hydrogen as a fuel is you can use solar energy to produce it, then burn the fuel that took days to crack in a few hours of driving time. This wonderful little device is essentially promising to be a perpetual motion machine that produces more energy than it takes to run. I'd loveto see the math on that.

If this device was a solar-powered unit that slowly cracked water to hydrogen and filled a bottle you would then attach to the car-mounted unit I would 100% believe all claims. The problem lies in the increased load the engine experiences whiloe it's providing power for the unit to crack the water. As anyone with even basic knowledge of internal combustions engines knows, increased load = lower horsepower to the wheels and more emissions. I'm sure that would be no problem for somebody with basic electrical knowledge and a pair of wire cutters though. *snip* "Oh whaddaya know, this little pre-loaded hydrogen injector suddenly isn't drawing power to produce more hydrogen while we do a dyno test!"

think about how this product works for one second, as someone mentioned, energy is neither created nor destroyed, just transfered, but as transfered, something must be lost, when seperating an element down to atoms, there is heat generated, all you are doing with this product is seperating and then recombining water, your final product is your original product with some carbon in it, ah, wait what do we have here??? the water decarbonizes ther moter, thats your gain, the rest is a loss on a 30 amp system, you are loseing somwhere between a Sh*t load and a Fu*k ton of electricity to do what blazerlt explained in quite good detail in one of his thread, it was titled something like 'decarbonizing cyl' or something like that (little help here please lt, thanks), ive made my statement and added my .02 here

Personally, I like how people have deep convictions...*beliefs* that something works and then how they start popping apart at the rivets when you drop basic math and physics on them that shows it doesn't. Sorry, but if belief drove and propelled my truck down the street, I would be the BIGGEST damn Christian you've ever laid eyes on. ;) Unfortunately, it's not the case, it runs off of gasoline so I am a bigger beiliver in Sun or Phillips for sources of energy to make my wheels move. :lol: Don't tell me I am a slave/shill of the oil companies and then drop links to fuzzy, enviro-crap pages completely unrelated to the conversation. True, Hydrogen IS a fuel of the future; once we figure out how to produce it and store *enough* of it to make a viable vehicle that does save energy. Currently, nearly all methods either consume more energy to produce usable fuel, or toxic/caustic byproducts FAR far worse than a well-tuned gasser engine produces. So are you still on the side of the planet and a good environment or what makes money as a buzzword fueled industry that is nothing more than a means to remove money from your wallets even faster and dash the delicate balance of this planet further into the realm of dismal decay?

I thought so. Carry on, don't light or heat areas of the home seldom used - drive gently on a well tuned and maintained truck. (Recycle ALL used fluids wherever possible) You'll do so much more good in this manner., save energy and money. And for those that folded into behaving so childish, so early in this debate -

We're gonna kick your ass at every turn, so take your ball and go home already. :D

Carry on, don't light or heat areas of the home seldom used - drive gently on a well tuned and maintained truck. (Recycle ALL used fluids wherever possible) You'll do so much more good in this manner., save energy and money. And for those that folded into behaving so childish, so early in this debate -

We're gonna kick your ass at every turn, so take your ball and go home already. :D
for every 3 degrees below 72 you keep your t stat in your house, it saves roughly 10%, this is exponetial, the first three is 10% the second three might only be 8%, its not linear where every 3 is 10, and wolfox, one better for ya, why recycle used fluids? they are petrolium based, they make oil heaters, they are clean and ozone frendly, purchace an oil heater, most shops are willing to give the spent fluid away, they have to pay for disposal if they dont give it to you, so buy the oil furnace, and save 100% on your heating bill and heat with the nasty bi products that vehicals are going to produce!

wolfox, one better for ya, why recycle used fluids? they are petrolium based, they make oil heaters, they are clean and ozone frendly, purchace an oil heater, most shops are willing to give the spent fluid away, they have to pay for disposal if they dont give it to you, so buy the oil furnace, and save 100% on your heating bill and heat with the nasty bi products that vehicals are going to produce!

The places I turn in fluids for recycling USE the oil products for heating their garages. They have the specialized burner and distribution system for the heat already set up. (Funky glow tubes and reflectors all along the ceiling with "blower boxes" here and there which hold the oil burner/furnace heads) They gladly take all I can dump on them, it's free energy for them in the end. I rent, and I rent from an old man that will not even so much as let me put up a visible whip antenna on the property I rent. :) So the argument of installing an Oil furnace where a perfectly good (And high efficiency) gas furnace rests is kinda not going to fly well. As for Antifreeze and the like, the same places will take them from me for a nominal fee. They're charged for having it hauled off to be reclaimed, filtered and made into new products again. $2/gallon is not bad, and with long-life coolant being the norm - not something I have to do often. *shrug* So that's why I recycle...mostly to just put otherwise hazardous materials back into proper use and production. About the only other thing I recycle is aluminum and various other scrap metals.

Plastics are a nightmare to get processed properly and actually cost taxpayers over 4-8x as much as regular trash disposal to be "displaced" to collection centers, sorted ad reprocessed. They cos a fraction on the peny to make in the first place, so there is little to no real incentive there unless you know a place that makes products from various forms of plastics. Luckily, such a place is near to me as well.

I will NOT recycle paper. I will not go into the reasons why but it is wasteful and harmful to the environment. That process is flawed. However, to chop down a tree to make paper products, companies are oblidged to replace the forrests they cut. So if you want more trees, and cleaner air? Dump paper goods in with your regular trash. It's also bio-degradable and most products are now printed with safe, soy based inks.

So there are my main reasons and what and why I recycle what I can. But the senseless addition of weight, dead weight under the engine hood and then having it draw phenomenal amounts of power to load up an engine - further increasing emissions and fuel consumption rates? Sorry, I guess I was one of the lucky ones that didn't get his daily dose of alcohol in his blood surrogate when he was still in the birthing tube. (Brave New World reference - now banned reading...heh imagine that. :) )

Energy is lost while converting your engine's mechanical energy in to electrical energy to power the unit. Then when burning the hydrogen to create new mechanical energy you lose a boatload of energy to heat (duh, combustion).

The only way this unit would improve vehicle efficiency is if the electrical energy used to power the unit was "extra" energy produced by the alternator that was going to go unused.

and its not, the alternators in our trucks are a lower output and tapped to the max on a loaded blazer

Mr Nelson is in zip code 83202 according to his profile. gogreenfuel.com is registered at 83201.

ah, i see, he works for them, it makes sence now

ah, i see, he works for them, it makes sence now come on Doug, we can't jump to conclusions.. Maybe he's getting paid off, free install, getting hummers: not the H1, H2 or H3 types. Neighbors wife is doing him. who knows why people do the things they do anymore.