please help with timing belt

i have a 95 eagle talon tsi fwd. i bought the car to play around with and noticed the timing belt was getting frayed on the inside closest to the block. it seems that the belt is riding on the lip on the inside of the tensioner pulley, but i have no idea why. i have replaced my tensioner pulley, both cam gears, and idler pulley. im running out of things to do..this is the third timing belt this month. can somebody please help me or give me any suggestions? any help will be greatly appreciated!

can somebody please help me out??

Check the crank sprocket and make sure the plate between crank sprocket and balance shaft sprocket is there, if not that could be causing it to ride up on the tensioner and the balance shaft sprocket.

the crank pulley is sitting too close to the block...i just noticed that..its in closer than any of the other pulleys (its not lined up with any other pulley)....the plate i see behind the crank pulley is a brass color...is this the plate that you are talking about?? or is there supposed to be another plate?

the crank pulley is sitting too close to the block...i just noticed that..its in closer than any of the other pulleys (its not lined up with any other pulley)....the plate i see behind the crank pulley is a brass color...is this the plate that you are talking about?? or is there supposed to be another plate?
Yeah, thats the plate. Is the balance shaft sprocket on the crank still on?

yes its there, what should i look for now? and thank you very much for your help so far..i need to get this car fixed...its my daily driver

I can't think of anything else that could be missing. Maybe the crank sprocket is on backwards? Other than that I can't think of anything, sorry.

this doesnt sound like a crankwalk problem does it?

No, crankwalk wouldn't cause anything like that.

is there supposed to be a cover over my balance shaft belt? i thought if there was , then it might space it back some. because my car doesnt have a cover over the bs belt

and could there possibly be a shim or washer of some sort behind the pulley that needs to be there, because mine doesnt have anything besides the brass spacer

Do you have the Haynes manual for the car?

yeah

Do you have the crank key in? I don't think it would run without it but it might. It's a small oval piece that goes into the crank to ensure the crank sprocket turns with the crank.

is this key something i can see without the motor apart? i have the timing belt off....should i be able to see the key? is it supposed to be behind the pulley or where? and thanks for the help so far i really appreciate it.

It's right on the crank where the crank sprocket attaches. If you still don't know what i mean i'll go take a pic of my brother's we still have his engine apart

No, crankwalk wouldn't cause anything like that.

Yes, it would.

mitsutuner have you had any trouble disengaging your clutch,especially when you turn? You need to get some sort of prybar and a helper. Take the bar and try to move the crank toward the passenger side. Then remove the bar and have your helper push the clutch pedal while you watch. If the crank moves toward the driver's side you have problems. If not you are probably OK on bearing failure. You can try to measure the movement with a feeler gauge too.

If your key was gone, and your pulley slipped you would be out of time. Out of time on an interference engine = bent valves, and I doubt your car would run like that. What do you think? :2cents:

my car is an automatic...so how do i check it if its an auto.....not having a clutch to push in and stuff?....thanks so much for everybodys help so far....i know this is crazy....but i need all the help i can get.

Yes, it would.

mitsutuner have you had any trouble disengaging your clutch,especially when you turn? You need to get some sort of prybar and a helper. Take the bar and try to move the crank toward the passenger side. Then remove the bar and have your helper push the clutch pedal while you watch. If the crank moves toward the driver's side you have problems. If not you are probably OK on bearing failure. You can try to measure the movement with a feeler gauge too.

If your key was gone, and your pulley slipped you would be out of time. Out of time on an interference engine = bent valves, and I doubt your car would run like that. What do you think? :2cents:
Yeah i don't think the car would run without the key, it might though if the bolt was tight enough...I don't think you'd get the tbelt frayed like that with crankwalk, cause its only out of alignment by .009" with cw which i don't think is enough to do that sort of damage to the tbelt.

Maybe some pictures could help with this...

double post :(

my car is an automatic...so how do i check it if its an auto.....not having a clutch to push in and stuff?....thanks so much for everybodys help so far....i know this is crazy....but i need all the help i can get.
O.K. First, you need to put your car information in your signature. You can still measure end play, but since it is an automatic we wont worry as much about that. You seriously need to take some pictures.

Ez, where did you come up with that number? .009 is not even close to how much the crank will move when the bearing fails. When I noticed my car had CW, the pulley had moved so far that it and the belt had rubbed completely through the timing belt cover. So yes it will move far enough to fray a belt.

i will post pictures today and put some info on my profile......srry bout that guys.....i will have the pics up asap.....thanks for all the replys and keep them coming

i will post pictures today and put some info on my profile......srry bout that guys.....i will have the pics up asap.....thanks for all the replys and keep them coming

Ez, where did you come up with that number? .009 is not even close to how much the crank will move when the bearing fails. When I noticed my car had CW, the pulley had moved so far that it and the belt had rubbed completely through the timing belt cover. So yes it will move far enough to fray a belt.
.009 is out of spec. There is no way the is enough room for the crank to move to cause the belt to fray. I'm thinking it's another problem. oh i got the number from vfaq.

.009 is out of spec. There is no way the is enough room for the crank to move to cause the belt to fray. I'm thinking it's another problem. oh i got the number from vfaq.

Crankshaft endplay tolerance is .0020 to .0071 inch. So .009 is out of spec, but not the limit of how far it can move before it hits the sensor. Think about how thick the thrust bearing is, it can move a lot. I am speaking from experience. I have the timing cover to prove it. Bearing failure is not as likely in an auto, but it can happen in any car. Don't rule it out before you check it. It is not hard to check at all. You may even be able to move the crank with your hands. See how much that bearing is worn? That is paper thin and way more than .009.
http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/500/277610bearing2-med.JPG

i checked and there is no endplay.....so im relieved about that....sorry i havent got the pics up yet...its been a rough week with me since i dont have a car.....i will get them up asap. by the way....my belt isnt rubbing on the side where the timing cover is, its on the side closest to the block. the belt is riding on the tensioner pulley's lip on the inside of the pulley. the crank pulley seems to be too close to the block....but this may not be the problem after all because ive checked everything that you all have told me to. is there anything besides the crank pulley that would make the belt ride too close to the block?

i checked and there is no endplay.....so im relieved about that....sorry i havent got the pics up yet...its been a rough week with me since i dont have a car.....i will get them up asap. by the way....my belt isnt rubbing on the side where the timing cover is, its on the side closest to the block. the belt is riding on the tensioner pulley's lip on the inside of the pulley. the crank pulley seems to be too close to the block....but this may not be the problem after all because ive checked everything that you all have told me to. is there anything besides the crank pulley that would make the belt ride too close to the block?
Are you sure the tensioner is tight enough? If it could move back and forth that would cause some problems. Did you replace the tensioner when you did the timing belt?
loeman I'm not trying to start a fight i've just never heard of that and i don't think there is enough clearence to have the belt hit the cover, there is signifigant room between the belt and the cover,(in terms of engine clearance) and if it were that far out the counter weights on the crank would hit the main cap.

Are you sure the tensioner is tight enough? If it could move back and forth that would cause some problems. Did you replace the tensioner when you did the timing belt?
loeman I'm not trying to start a fight i've just never heard of that and i don't think there is enough clearence to have the belt hit the cover, there is signifigant room between the belt and the cover,(in terms of engine clearance) and if it were that far out the counter weights on the crank would hit the main cap.
I am not going to fight, just stop calling me a liar. I was talking about the belts outside the cover moving far enough to cut into it, so maybe it could also move far enough inside to fray the T-belt. I am done with that subject. So let's get back to helping this guy. Peace

Anyway, I am glad that isn't the problem. mitsutuner, you keep mentioning the pulley looks too close to the block. Use a string line, and check the alignment and you will know for sure. The only other thing I can think of is something is not tightened, or something is bent. Belts will always ride to the "loose" side of a pulley, away from tension.

i checked the alignment of the pulleys and the crank pulley IS closer than the other ones