1987 camry problem - please help

Hi everyone. I've got a 1987 Camry wagon which developed a problem a few months ago. I was almost home when the temp gauge rose all the way. Unfortunately, I decided to make it home, since I was about a mile away. Just as I was pulling in, the radiator blew and radiator fluid billowed out from under the hood. I had a new radiator put in, only to see the temp needle rise to the top after about fifteen minutes of normal driving. Naturally, I took the car back to the shop and they found the thermostat had failed. After it was replaced, the car hasn't overheated since. However, here's where my problem comes in.

After the radiator was replaced but before the problem was traced to a failed thermostat, I would notice some tell-tale signs the temp gauge was about to climb. Just beforehand, the performance of the car would take a very substantial hit. Acceleration was extremely poor compared to normal, expecially at highway speeds. Also, the pedal would become very noticeably physically harder to press down, as if something was giving it resistance. Road noise and/or engine noise was louder than usual. Like I say, these symptoms would only occur just before the car would start to overheat with the broken thermostat. If I let the car cool down for a few hours and then drove it again, performance was back to normal.

About a week after the thermostat was replaced, the fuel pump finally died after 180,000 miles. After the pump was replaced, I got the car back, only to find the performance had taken a hit again. The symptoms are essentially identical to the ones experienced just before overheating with the failed thermostat - poor acceleration and performance and a gas pedal which seemed to vary from good action to substantial resistance. I cleaned the throttle body myself recently, but at times the pedal still seems to behave differently. The engine makes more of a roaring noise sometimes than before. When I have the heater on, the air blowing out becomes uncomfortably hot after about 5 to 10 minutes (didn't used to be this way). I think the performance still varies somewhat, but even at peak, the car does not accelerate anywhere close to how it did a few months ago. Just before the original fuel pump failed but after the thermostat had been replaced, I tested the acceleration and found I could go from 0 to 60 in around 7 seconds (the car weighs slightly under a ton with a 115 hp engine). Since I noticed the performance hit, I tested the acceleration and consistantly get to 60 in around 10 to 11 seconds. Obviously I can tell a major difference in the way the car drives. Where I used to be able to barely touch the gas pedal and move powerfully from a stop, I now have to push it halfway to the floor, and of course the hesitation is still there. According to my perception, I think the performance may be gradually still going downhill. However, I've got a new K&N air filter, new fuel filter, etc. Could it be an electrical problem (i.e. spark plug wires, distributor, ignition, etc.) that might have been set off by the contents of the radiator spewing in the hood? Could the muffler be obstructed somehow? Something as odd as a sticking rear brake? I remember the noise being especially loud toward the back, and whenever I let off of the gas pedal during one of the performance hits on the highway, the car would decelerate quicker than I thought it should, almost as if something was pulling it back. Come to think of it, could Overdrive have been shifting off just before it overheated somehow, since the pronounced deceleration felt just like letting off the gas with Overdrive turned off feels in the car? I'm at the stage where I can think of millions of things, but where does the varying pedal resistance and former intermittance of the problem tie in?

Any ideas guys? I'm kind of stumped, since we took it into the shop and all the basics (O2 sensor, catalytic converter, fuel pressure, compression across cylinders, etc.) seemed fine. The idle is fine - no vacuum leaks were found either. I think the problem lies somewhere with the fact that it was intermittant beforehand (just before overheating) but now essentially constant. Any help is greatly appreciated.

From the sounds of the severity of the overheating (ie the damage to the radiator, etc.) There is a good possibility that you damaged your head gasket. Depending on the severity of the damage - this could create several different symptoms - including the ones you are seeing.

Anthony

I agree on the head gasket being bad. The engine severly over heated. Could also have a bad brake in back or front, nothing to do with over heating.

I tested the acceleration and found I could go from 0 to 60 in around 7 seconds
No manLoL! An es250 weighs 100-200lbs more, and has a 158bhp v6, they take 8-9 seconds to do 0-60 depending on M/T, A/T & condition. You must be on the gas (n2o - that's just a little performance joke! n2o = laughing gas), or you use to count very, very fast!
For a 3s-fe i4 gen2 it's more like 0-60KM in 7 seconds you mean? 0-60mph woud be like 9-11 seconds based one verything under the sun.



Check/replace the coolant temp sensor. It has a small effect (4% fuel) on fuel injection, controls idle speed, the ECU locks out & retards timing to limit rpm & locks out of overdrive when it reads cold.


Could be a faulty thermostat, incorrectly installed thermostat, the incorrect thermostat (Too hot).
Replace the radiator pressure cap & if you've got one the fill pressure cap on the engine.

Check your ignition & cam timing. If it's too advanced you'll run hot & performance will suck & you'll get pre-ignition.
Check/replace the distributor cap & rotor, and plugs. Check the wires. The OEM Nippon-Denso wires have notoriously long lives & rarely need to be replaced, so be sure before you replace them & ONLY use quality wires. No parts store crap.
Plugs should be NGK, or Denso ONLY.

I would have to go with the temp sensor and/ of wires myself. The temp sensor does some weird stuff when it is going, possibly heat-damaged from overheating. The sensor or wires can give intermittent circumstances. If the compression check was OK, then the head gasket is probably good.

You need to take a compression check first before you start replacing sensors and what-not. It is likely warped the head, so you need to check for that first. Good compression readings indicate the head's ok.

Thanks for your input guys.

When we got it checked at the shop a few months ago after I'd noticed the performance hit, they said the head gasket was fine, so that's out. Compression was fine as well. Basically the originally intermittant nature of the problem suggested to me the problem lay with something electrical.

I'd like to add a few other possible points of interest to see if they help any. The wires were replaced a while back....maybe a little under a year ago. They're not OEM to my knowledge, but they're 7mm "PREMIUM" wires. Hmmm.

Also, when I adjust the idle up a little (not much), the engine responds far better, especially when accelerating from a stop. However, after a few days, the idle seems to go back to a lower speed again without me adjusting anything. Naturally this is undesirable in any circumstance. What could cause this? Perhaps it relates to the overall problem. On a similar note, the hesitation is extremely noticeable in the morning when first driving. Typically, the first time I press the gas pedal to start moving, the engine seems to grumble and has no power at all for several seconds, until it gradually begins to move the car forward, after which point I can hold the pedal down at the same spot and the car's rate of acceleration will gradually increase. To me, the effect is almost like the engine is not getting enough fuel at the start, but gradually begins to get more after a few seconds. The first few times it happened, I worried the engine was going to die again, since the car behaved exactly the same way before the original pump failed and left me on the side of the road. The car had stumbled and performed somewhat erratically because not enough fuel was reaching the engine consistently. This moves me to my next observation.

Finally, I notice that if I accelerate hard once (i.e. floor the accelerator for a few seconds), then stop moving completely and start from that stop, the engine responds very well for a while, perhaps as well as it used to. The hesitation disappears for a few seconds. Could this have something to do with fuel delivery, perhaps the fuel pressure regulator or something related? Remember a new fuel pump was put in after the old one failed, but the shop said the fuel pressure was excellent when they tested it. My original prognosis from the way the car responded was something fuel-related, since the pump had gone on the blink the night before it finally failed.

Thanks again for all your helpful input.

Hi all. After months of hearing nothing was wrong with the engine, basic components, and trying Seafoam and other potential fixes, we finally discovered the cause almost by accident. About two months ago, the temperature gauge rose almost to the red zone, then eventually dropped. At first, this would only happen once a week, but after a few weeks, the frequency increased until the temp gauge would rise high after just ten or fifteen minutes of normal driving. Naturally I took the car into the shop by this point.

When they had it on the rack, the mechanics noticed little exhaust was exiting the exhaust pipe. Turns out the exhaust manifold had become almost completely blocked somehow. After cleaning the manifold thoroughly, the temp gauge never rises above halfway, and the car performs like a new car again.

Thanks for letting us know. This is one for the "never would have thought" pile. Cheers!