3.2 engine seized

Just want to let you Rodeo owners know to check your oil. I have a 1998 Rodeo and did oil change a 88000km. I do mine every 5000km so at 92000km I was not worried about the oil. the Rodeo used about 1 litre every 5000km so I still had 10000km to g be fore my oil was to to be changed. Well I was wrong. the engine consumed all 5litres of oil in 4000km. Has any one seen this before. Is there anyway I can make GM pay for the dammage. I have never heard of a vehicle consuming the entire 5ltrs of oil. What can I do. I mean you would never expect that a vehicle would run out of oil. I could see if the vehicle leaked(which mine does not) or smoked(which mine did not) there was no indication that the truck was running out of oil. The oil light did not come on the engine light did not come on. What can I do? thatnks for your input. Tom :confused:

Sorry to hear it got you, but checking the dipstick is a must every 300-500 miles. Most owner's manual's even state to check at every fuel fill-up. You will find many posts in regards to this in the rodeo and trooper forums. Getting anything from GM/Isuzu for a 1998 wont happen. Isuzu Canada is long gone and Isuzu NA is not far behind. These engines will last a LONG time if you keep oil in them. Try a search for oil consumption and you will find tons of stuff.

Joel

One should expect anything to be possible on any engine, irregardless of the manufactor or miles on the engine.

All it takes is 5-10 minutes once a week to pop the hood and take a look-see at all the fluids - VERY cheap peace of mind.

My 3.2L doesn't use a drop of oil in 3k miles, even at 152k miles, but I still and always have popped the hood at least once a week to check the oil and antifreeze especially. Have done this since I bought it new.

Do the same with my sister's dodge van as it WILL seize up within 2-3 weeks if I don't check her's every week.

Sorry to hear this, I really am, as these truck's get a bad wrap because they do, 98+yrs especially, in fact, use too much oil, but they are good engines.

I've heard that if you're in need of a new engine Jasper is the company to go through.

I've heard what can make these trucks suddenly start using more oil is a blockage in the EGR valve and ring packs getting a little dirty. Long highway driving, towing, and there are other variables as well.

Keep us posted. But, I have to say that I don't think you'll be able to get a new engine under warranty, as I'm not aiming to sound rude, but this would be considered owner neglect.

Not because you haven't been changing the oil, but because you let it run out.

Where does oil go if its not leaked or burned? It can't just disappear and I doubt aliens would have taken it. I'm sure aliens have much better lubricating products.

Where does oil go if its not leaked or burned? It can't just disappear and I doubt aliens would have taken it. I'm sure aliens have much better lubricating products.

It does burn it. Its just such a small amount you dont see the smoke. If you look at the rings on the piston there should be 3 of them. The top and bottom are scrapers to scrape the oil off the cylinders, the center is the oil ring. There are normally lots of holes in it for the oil to return back to the oil pan. For some reason isuzu only used 3 return holes on these engines and they are small. They can become clogged then the oil has no where to go so gets burned off. Even burning such a small amount, over several thousand miles it can be quite a bit.

My mitsu pickup would be fine for the first 2000 miles after an oil change but would burn 2-3 quarts over the next thousand. Never did see any smoke from it.

Where does oil go if its not leaked or burned?

I think what both Joel and RF are suggesting is that the oil simply burned off due to a known design weakness. Not enough to be apparent out the exhaust pipe, but enough to drop like low tide if it isn't checked often. Mine will be OK for a few weeks, then one hard tow or highway cruise will lose a quart in a blink of an eye.
Tom

Theres no way it burned 5 liters of oil in 4000 kilometers without noticable smoke from the exhaust.

The main point of my post was that his oil level had not been checked, period.

I check mine every week, roughly every 100 miles.

And it is possible - if he didn't do the oil/filter change himself - that someone did not put the correct amount in to begin with.

I don't totally believe it could've burnt that much oil that fast, but anything's possible.

I have this same issue with my sister's van - only a very very slight visible weap, no smoke out the exhaust, yet it losses/burns almost 2 qts a week. The whole undercarrage/engine is completely dry.

And it is possible - if he didn't do the oil/filter change himself - that someone did not put the correct amount in to begin with.




I was also thinking this.

Hey
Thanks for the replys
I did not say it was not a large oversite not to check the oil which will cost about $3000 to fix. However you people seem to think this is normal for an engine with 92000km to consume its entire 5 liters in only 4000km. I did not make up this info just to get a bunch of negative comments(I thought you might have some input on how to fix the problem or what to look for damage). Or to learn how good the rest of you are. I told you the engine used 5 litres and did not smoke, why would I post that if it was not the case. I don't beleive that a vehicle regardless of make and model should consume the entire contents of the lubricant. I also feel that the consumer should be made aware of the test on oil consuption, not after a persons has spent the money and is stuck with the vehicle. The rodeo only was down 1 litre between every 5000km since new up until now so why would I think it would get any worst. The oil was checked on the 15 November. The dip stick in the Rodeo once it is down 1 liter does not show on the dip stick. So I guess that is normal and exceptable? I mean why would you want a dipstick to tell you when you are down a litre I mean it is always better to gues how much oil you are down anyway. I guess the people with the timing belt breaking before 100,000km and have a valve bend should have replaced it before hand. What ever happend to making a vehicle to last. Thanks once again for your input.Tom

Personally, if you didn't do the last oil change yourself, I would go back to who ever did the oil change and demand a request to know exactly how much they put in there.

You're not saying whether or not you changed the oil yourself last time.

I didn't intend to imply that these engines are "normal", nor should they "normally" consume this much oil - which is why I believe who ever did the oil change didn't put the correct amount in to begin with.

If your truck has NEVER used even close to that much and then suddenly it's gone, really makes me wonder if it was there to begin with.

And I'm not out to prove myself any better then you, I blew a headgasket on a toyota 5yrs ago from NOT getting down and dirty and wondering where in the heck the antifreeze was going.

My attitude at the time, even though the truck had been very well taken care of, was that it was not overheating, the oil was not diluted, and the truck was running fine. So it must've been fine.

Not - I also had $3-4k damage at the time.

And guess what, that same darn truck just blew the headgasket AGAIN! This weekend - only this time we're hoping we caught it soon enough not to have blown the whole engine - again!

So I'm sorry if I came off thinking I was better then you - I'm sure and the heck NOT!

By the way, check your antifreeze as a precaution - if it looks brownish, that could be your answer as well.

Having bought our 99 Passport used it surprised the hell out of me to find out how much oil these things burn.
The first time my wife mentioned about the oil light coming on when she made turns I checked the oil and had to add 4 or 5 quarts. I was sure I had checked the oil when we bought it and had not been able to do a proper oil change yet due to the weather at the time. Checked for leaks like everyone else does and found none so I made sure it had plenty of oil and finally did a proper oil change about a week later and then a couple of months later my wife is saying the oil light is coming on again in turns so again i check and almost no oil in the thing again. Again checked for leaks and found nothing so I added the probably 5 quarts and got on the Internet and found out it was a common issue on Rodeo's/Passport's. From what I've read seafoam seems to help so that is my next step. For now I'm just watching the oil like a hawk.
I agree that there is no reason to expect that a modern day engine would go through so much oil so quickly but apparently this one does.

Hey Ramblin Fever
I understand what you are saying (and yes normally I check the oil every two weeks tuff lesson to learn.) it just seems like it is the norm. the dealer even thinks so"well they do use more oil then some so you should have checked you oil more well no *hit. So here is where I sit. To fix or not to Fix. I can get a Used Engine out of Montreal from a 2000 Rodeo has 72000km on it for $21000 plus tax. 30 Day warranty. Or I can get anther engine for 122000km for $2000 plus tax 90 day warranty. So plus the cost of the4 installation. Now to Rebuild my engine it is going to cost $3000 plus tax and maybe more. So tell me what way would you go? I think the 72000km sounds ok but then at 100,000km I need to put a timing belt in. What I don't like is the engines are comming out a a auto wreckers so the vehicles have been in an accident. Is there anything I should be concerned about. Do any of you guy know where I can get a rebuilt or used engine here in canada I live outside of Fredriction NB.Thanks for your Input with out people like you sharing our experiances other would not learn for our mistakes. Thanks Tom

Tom, yes the oil consumption issue that effects some sux, and there is nothing normal about it. If your 1998 is in good shape, $3-4K would be cheaper than buying another truck, but I personally would junk it if the repair cost is close to or more than the truck is worth.

Joel

Well, don't know if my opinion is worth much, as we just forked up the exact $1k to fix our '85 Toyota's headgasket for the 2nd time in 15yrs.

The 1st time, 5yrs ago, it was the same cost as you're looking at to rebuild yours - actually a little more, we just went back through all the paper work, it was $4,9?? for the rebuilt engine, labor, extra parts.

Was the truck (the '85 Toy) worth $5k, 5yrs ago?? ....Ummm, maybe, not really... was it worth the extra $1k thrown at it today??.....Ummm nope!

And that's not counting the new tires, shocks, brakes, alternator, starter and battery thrown at it this year as well needing a new bed and paint job.

But, you know what, it all still adds up to be cheaper then another 5-6yr car loan.

I take it that your block and heads are thrashed?? If they're not, then rebuild YOUR engine, but I can't see your block being any good.

Have you priced an engine from Jasper? I have not a clue what they charge, could be much more then $3k though.

When we bought the rebuilt engine for the Toy, it was a complete new rebuilt with a 5yr/50k warranty, and it figures the warranty expired before mileage did.

With this 2nd headgasket on the Toyota, the engine was spared - no internal damage, thank goodness, as we wouldn't have replaced the whole engine a 2nd time.

And this is it's LAST $$$ dance with us - any major issues after this and she's outta here.

You'll have to weigh the pro's and con's of rebuilding it, as the one drawback is if you are in an accident, they will only give blue-book value on the truck, NOT the newly rebuilt engine.

Some people would chose to rid of it before putting that kind of money into it, as it is true, the blue book value on the Rodeo is not all that great, and you'd have to be willing to either keep it for the long haul or take a hit if you choose to sale it.

In reality, the cost of vehicles has gotten so high that there really isn't any manufacturer that's truly holding anything remotely of value for what you pay off the lot. And the other bad thing is now you're having to carry Gap insurance because insurance companies won't even cover the cost of the loan on a NEW vehicle cause the blue book drops incredibly the minute the front end pulls off the dealer lot.

get the lower mile motor and have the timing belt, tensioner, and water pump replaced before its put in. Id also do a full tune up, thermostat, plugs, wires, probably change the intake manifold gasket because I know they are common on these.

Not too long ago, I had the same exact problem with my 3.2 DOHC, 5 quarts gone! and a spun rod bearing to go with it. I dont doubt you checked your oil frequently, but the bottom line is, you didnt check it often enough, I think Gizmo42 described it best where the oil went, these engines have a well known oil consumption problem, not to mention a inadequate oil pump that only puts out 10 lbs of pressure @ 500rpm!.

I rebuilt my 2000 3.2 DOHC twice! 2 cranks and 100+ hrs later, it now runs like a dream. The best advice I can give to owners, is to check there oil EVERY time they put gas in there tank, and use a higher viscosity oil like 10/40, higher viscosity = higher oil pressure.

So which repair route do you take? If your planning on keeping the car, DONT replace the motor with a used one, your just asking for more trouble and you'll be out $2000, I would have your existing motor completely rebuilt, is the quote of $3000 USD for a complete overhaul? if so, that's cheap!, just make sure whoever does it, has worked on these engines before and does it right! Parts alone with a reground crank will cost at least $1200 USD, I'm including a new oil and water pump. Any machine or head work would be extra, removing the motor and re-installing should be another $1000, so the shop is only making $800 for the rebuilding, and he has to warranty it.

Your other option is to sell the car AS IS and take the loss, it's really your call, I hope this helps........Good luck!

Nick



Just want to let you Rodeo owners know to check your oil. I have a 1998 Rodeo and did oil change a 88000km. I do mine every 5000km so at 92000km I was not worried about the oil. the Rodeo used about 1 litre every 5000km so I still had 10000km to g be fore my oil was to to be changed. Well I was wrong. the engine consumed all 5litres of oil in 4000km. Has any one seen this before. Is there anyway I can make GM pay for the dammage. I have never heard of a vehicle consuming the entire 5ltrs of oil. What can I do. I mean you would never expect that a vehicle would run out of oil. I could see if the vehicle leaked(which mine does not) or smoked(which mine did not) there was no indication that the truck was running out of oil. The oil light did not come on the engine light did not come on. What can I do? thatnks for your input. Tom :confused:

nykolos, isn't the #1 & #2 connecting rod bearings the FIRST to get oil from the oil pump? They are the closest to the oil pump correct? I have not torn down a 3.2/3.5L. Just trying to figure why the 1 & 2 tend to go first. I too have considered going with a 40wt oil long term (have experimented with 5w-20 thru 15w-40), but am concerned with cold temp startup & making my MPG worse. Did you not have 10/120 warranty on your 2000?

G/luck
Joel

nykolos, isn't the #1 & #2 connecting rod bearings the FIRST to get oil from the oil pump? They are the closest to the oil pump correct? I have not torn down a 3.2/3.5L. Just trying to figure why the 1 & 2 tend to go first. I too have considered going with a 40wt oil long term (have experimented with 5w-20 thru 15w-40), but am concerned with cold temp startup & making my MPG worse. Did you not have 10/120 warranty on your 2000?

G/luck
JoelJoel, I have been running M1 5W40 since the summer and haven't noticed any drop in mpg due to the oil. I still get 17-18 mpg.

You know all this oil viscosity stuff is SO confusing :banghead:

Just when everyone has convinced me that 5w-30 is better to use versus my longtime 10w-30 or the 5w-40, then I find out opinions are changing :screwy:

eeeeakkkk!

Sorry to hear your misfortune... I bought my 96 Rodeo with about 45,000 miles on it, it was using oil and still under warranty. The dealer insisted that "they do that", some crap about foriegn vehicles do use oil. 6 years later, she still uses oil but the valve cover gasket is the culpret.. Hmmm no money and physically disabled hard to get that one handled, especially when the mind knows what to do the body won't cooperate... and what the ____ is sea foam. Good Blessings, Ann :grinno: BRAINSTORM: I notice a neaprene hose coming from the oil pump right near the oil filter housing... how does that look?

You got that right Ramblin! I feel the same way. Too much BITOG I guess. Steve, good point on the M1 5w-40. Had not thought about that oil. Maybe a 40wt for spring/summer and a 30wt for fall/winter is ideal!?!?:banghead: What scares me about a 40wt is you will increase pressure, but decrease flow. The happy medium for the 1998+ 3.2/3.5 is anyones guess.

Joel

I will tell you one thing - in my playing with different viscosities, when you say that an increase in viscosity will decrease flow, but raise pressure.

I can attest to the 40wt definitely keeping your pressure up - mine says it stays at 75-85psi hot.

But yet, with the Havoline blend 5w-30, my hot pressure (winter time) is staying at 65-70psi, so it's not dropped a whole lot.

And my truck's engine is a bit quieter (having nothing to do with a ticking issue) with this Havoline blend 5w-30, then it was with even the regular Havoline 5w-30.

So I'm at a loss, really.

I'm stuck between choosing Rotella 5w-40 or Havoline Blend 10w-30 for summer.

Next winter, I'm pretty sure I'll stick to the 10w-30 blend as well, it actually has better cold weather properties then the 5w blend does.

If anyone can guess what to decide upon, keep me posted.

I will say that the spec's for the same engine in Australia calls for nothing less then a 40wt - as if that's supposed to help us decide :shakehead

Just thought something - what about a heavy 30wt that doesn't shear too fast? Rather then a 40wt.

Say half of a 10w-30 and a 15w-40?

Or a 10w-30 mixture with a 20w-50

I wouldn't want to mix a 5w-30 with a heavier viscosity though - too many viscosity improvers in that wide of a spread.

you can mix oil viscosities?:eek2:

My 3.2L has done fine with 10W-30 for 150K. I probably wouldn't sleep as well if I changed now, especially with the daughter putting most of the miles on it.

you can mix oil viscosities?:eek2:


Lots of people do - but I'm not one of them. Not fond of it at all, personally, just mentioned it as a lot of people do and have mixed for a long time without issue.

Yeah, I'm leaning towards the 10w-30 again, as for one, I can't find the 5w-30 Havoline blend, and I'm not thrilled with running it consistently for summer use in hard, hilly terrain driving.

Mixing wt's wont hurt a thing. Your engine wont even notice, it's just kinda pointless. Kinda related, but I used to mix 2qts of M1 10w-30 with 3qts of Mobil 'drive clean' 10w-30 to make my own "synthetic blend". Got bored with that too.

G/luck
Joel