Stroking, need some help

Ok, so Mikes car isnt running, we're thinking the engine blew do to him running it on no oil :banghead:. We dont have a garage or an engine hoist so we are just going to buy a block and head (cough ez1286 cough) and build it, then drop it in when it gets warmer out. Well, we figured that if we build an engine, why not stroke it? It will cost basically the same and the lower spool time (and more torque right?) sounds good so why not? Well, we are going to try to start piecing this bastard together but I need a little help on the bottom end. I think I read the block needs to be "clearanced." Is this right and what needs to be clearanced? Will we need special seals? What about the bearings (rod and main) should we get 4g64 or 4g63 bearings? Is a 7 bolt 4g64 crank goign to work in a 6 bolt (they dont even make 6 bolt 4g64's do they?)? So then we'd need a 7 bolt flywheel right? What about the clutch? ARP hardware is in the plans. Any 1g rods will work right? We are planning on eagles rods and wiseco 8.8:1 pistons.

Now for the top end questions. We are planning on around 450-500 hp plus the nitrous (probably a 75 shot). What should we get for valves? Oversized or regular? Will stock ones hold up? FP2 cams sound good or should we go crazier? (we want it to be streetable, but probably not daily driven)

How does an ACT 2600 sound? Will it suffice or should we go to a 2900? Any other brands suggestions? What brand flywheel? Will we need a built tranny, rear end, axles, and/or drive shaft or will they all hold up ok?

Any comments are welcome, tell me what you think. Thanks guys, I am tired as fuck right now, sorry if I didnt make sense in some parts, I'll be back tomorrow to clear up any of my blundering. Thanks again.

you should buy ez's 1g!!!

I may be wrong here but I think that all 4G64 cranks are 6 bolt. Am I right?

Here's the kit i will get some day...
http://carshop.carshopinc.com/product_info.php/products_id/59245/CS23KIT
It's fairly cheap and comes with everything you'll need. it is a six bolt. I've priced the kit individually and it would be more to buy seperate (the damn wiseco stroke pistons are like $500!!) Check your pm's about the 6bolt.

G4CS crank $530. Me
Eagle rods $299. Ebay
Weisco strokers $399. Ebay
ARP Main $60. Ebay
Topline oil pump. $130
90 oil filter houseing. $10 junkyard, mitsubishi grave yard
oil cooler, AN lines, Fittings. $70. ebay
B-shaft elim kit. $35
http://www.worldparts.com/tallmits/
Machine work / ballancing $350-$400

Your stock head will be fine. Head studs & Gasket choices are yours. Reamber metal HG's require supper smooth finishes for good sealing. If you install cams smaller then fp2 or hks 262 you will not need anything except new lifters. anytime you get into high lift cams they require stiffer spring seat pressure. fp3-fp3x-fp4 all require 90lb. Alot of this stuff depends on your turbo.

The only thing I would change is the Topline oil pump kit. For such a critical part I would not use anything but mitsu. I've seen several toplines fail for no reason, while I rarely hear of Mitsu units failing (I did have the pump drive gear walk through the case sideways, but thats another story).

The 2.0 block will need clearancing to accomodate the added "sideways" motion of the crank thanks to the extra 6mm per side on the stroke combine with (typically) beefier rods. The bridge over the two main caps will also need some work. A carbide bur in a die grinder works. I always let my machinist do the bottom end assembly for several reasons that I wont get into here, so he always does this part for me.

IMO i do not think its worth the money to stroke, no hard evidence on how good they really are. You can take your normal 4g63 and put all the HP you will ever need for less money.

Ok thanks guys. Thanks for that kit link, I think we might hit that up. Heres a crank I found and am thinking about buying. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/LIKE-NEW-4G64-CRANK-SHAFT-7-BOLT-STROKE-4G63_W0QQitemZ8025484864QQcategoryZ33616QQssPageNa meZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
What do you guys think?

So for the flywheel and clutch... will we need to get a 4g63 or 4g64 flywheel/clutch?

We are planning on a fairly good sized turbo (http://www.slowboyracing.com/more.php?id=5041), hoping for right around 500 hp, but we want it to be a street/strip car so it needs to idle and operate well enough in the low RPMs. We are planning on revving fairly high, probably to 8500 or 9000 if theres power up there. Heres the springs and retainers we are planning on: http://www.slowboyracing.com/shop.php?sid=&cat=2392. We could go to 8500 or 9000 on those right? With that turbo and a 75 shot SS valves are a good idea right? Would the FP2, FP2x, or FP3 cams be best? We are going to have to replace the lifters? How come? What about the rockers?

EDIT: Actually I just checked SBR's stroker kit. Same as the one from the other place but $150 cheaper. I thought they were like $1800. I think that will be the plan for now, even if I got that $200 crank, I dont think we could build the kit for less than $1150. We could have the bottom end built by the end of January except Mike is insistant on buying like an 88 Lincoln Town Car for $800. He doesnt realize that hes automatically taking $1000 out of his pocket in buying that stupid car after insurance, title transfers, and putting gas in it. Its a fuckin 5.0 RWD 21 foot long BOAT. It will eat gas like a mother fucker. Gah, its so frustrating. He wants the engine built for us to put it in on spring break, and this other car is just going to put us back atleast a month. :banghead: GOD DAMN I NEED MY OWN FUCKIN DSM!

Keep the comments rolling guys any all are appreciated.

Well, we've just decided to say fuck it. Its going to cost too much money that we dont have. Thanks for your help guys, we're going to do the compression test tomorrow and see whats up. If the compression is low, we are going to rebuild a block with stock stuff, slap his old head on the rebuilt block, and save for probably evo 3 16g, 20g, or possibly a sbr 50 trim setup plus support mods. I think this project is getting reduced from "Street strip monster" to 350-400 hp street car. Thanks for the help guys, I appreciate it all.

Damn im good ;) lol j/k

IMO i do not think its worth the money to stroke, no hard evidence on how good they really are. You can take your normal 4g63 and put all the HP you will ever need for less money.

I disagree with this point of view. For me the only change in cost between building another 2 liter or going to a stroker was the 300 dollar crank. Assuming poeple arent going over 8500 rpm, which most poeple will never do, the stroker will always make more power. 15% more displacement = 15% more airflow = 15% more power. I've posted before and after data many times in the past, but to use a GT35R sized example, there was a 15% increase in airflow at the same boost, and the same boost came on 700 rpm sooner (25 psi at 3700). I'm not sure how anyone could argue against that for 300 bucks. Given the choice between the two I will always choose the stroker. But then again, you need a larger turbo, in my opinion. Especially on the hotside. That 60 trim mentioned above is a little too small if you ask me. A garret turbo with a large hotside (.82 at least) makes more sense. 15% more airflow means 15% more exhaust gas ;)

Yeah actually our decision (brain fart, spelling?) Only came because we realized that a 500 hp stroker is many thousands of dollars away. We figured that smaller numbers, though less impressive in the DSM community, will still blow 98% of everything else on the street away. His car is already one of the fastest in town, if it would ever run. Theres a turbo civic running around, 15.1 in the 1/4 :lol:, my other friend shawns 13 sec neon (capable of much faster times now, its a 420a completely built and a big t3t4, he was beating SRT4's at the track on the 14b) a couple unmodded turbo DSMs and there is this one CRX with a b16 and a big t3t4 but she doesnt know how to drive it very well and that t3t4 doesnt like to spool on a 1.6 liter engine. My new plan is similar to Mikes, I think I am going to get a 2g, cams, springs and retainers, a 50 trim, DSM link, all the good fuel stuff, intake, exhaust, yadda yadda yadda. Kevin's line of thinking is exactly mine, 15% increase in power, airflow, etc for $300 sounds pretty damn good, but we realized that two broke ass white boys that work at McDonalds and are going to college next year, dont quite have the resources to build the engine like that. I still think that we are going to have to do a rebuild, but the $500 stock rebuild kit from SBR sounds lots better than a $1700 stroker. Again, thanks for all the help.

Well lets see if i can save you a little bit more money. Hers another site that sells top line.
I called there 1 800 number to ask about there products and to see exactly how much they know. They got there shit together. My motor was fine when i took it out in november, i just want to rebuild it. Anyways check this site out

http://www.engine-overhaul-kits.com/engine-overhaul-kits-eagle.php

the title of this thread is really funny,you need help stroking it dude,j/p hahahaha ok bye