head and gasket advice.. HI RES PICS included
skel924
12-27-2005, 06:19 PM
hello!
this car is a 1994 plymouth acclaim. fixing it for my sister.
click this: http://www.bobbb42.com/images/eng/ to see all the pictures on one page.. there are no popups or spyware ads on that page, i promise.
some things to note:
* i think i can see a tiny cracks by the cross drilling holes (3 of them) between the cylinders.
* the valves seem colored weird.. one has an almost "peeling" look to it. one almost looks rusted
* looking at the image labeled head 1.. you can see that little triangluar piece between valves is severely broken off on the right hand cylinder in the pic (cyl #2). its not as bad on the left hand cyl (cyl #1). #3 and #4 are perfectly fine. i am guessing this was causing my pinging problem!! I will need a new head because of this, correct?
* i found sand like particles in the pistons.. i just blew in it and they all came out. you can see the particles in the last two pictures. could this mean damage to the block?
* i can definitely see hair line cracks in all 3 cross-drilled holes in the middle of the head, and i can make out what seems to be a 2-3mm long hairline pointing outwards from the valve seat of the smaller valves. i can see them in definitely 2 cylinders, maybe even a third (#4). keep in mind the engine did overheat before i shut it down for the last time. it was also spewing burning coolant at this time.
my final question..... should i bother sending the head out to be checked? or just obtain the cheapest head i can find in a junk yard? please advise my next step!!! thanks and HAPPY NEW YEAR
this car is a 1994 plymouth acclaim. fixing it for my sister.
click this: http://www.bobbb42.com/images/eng/ to see all the pictures on one page.. there are no popups or spyware ads on that page, i promise.
some things to note:
* i think i can see a tiny cracks by the cross drilling holes (3 of them) between the cylinders.
* the valves seem colored weird.. one has an almost "peeling" look to it. one almost looks rusted
* looking at the image labeled head 1.. you can see that little triangluar piece between valves is severely broken off on the right hand cylinder in the pic (cyl #2). its not as bad on the left hand cyl (cyl #1). #3 and #4 are perfectly fine. i am guessing this was causing my pinging problem!! I will need a new head because of this, correct?
* i found sand like particles in the pistons.. i just blew in it and they all came out. you can see the particles in the last two pictures. could this mean damage to the block?
* i can definitely see hair line cracks in all 3 cross-drilled holes in the middle of the head, and i can make out what seems to be a 2-3mm long hairline pointing outwards from the valve seat of the smaller valves. i can see them in definitely 2 cylinders, maybe even a third (#4). keep in mind the engine did overheat before i shut it down for the last time. it was also spewing burning coolant at this time.
my final question..... should i bother sending the head out to be checked? or just obtain the cheapest head i can find in a junk yard? please advise my next step!!! thanks and HAPPY NEW YEAR
Floyd_ODB
12-27-2005, 08:25 PM
well the biggest problem I see is if the block has been burnt so much that it left an indentation. where a new gasket wouldnt seal. if its just dicolored a little sand paper will clean iron up nice.
the cracks is typical for that model. you didnt show how far the cracks go between the cylinders. 1/16" from the hole 1/8th". if they're real small the head would last you for a while. however the cracks will eventually run causing Another gasket failure.
the cracks in between the valves, on thisi particular model is not a big deal unless they go so deep and are so wide they cause the ports to feed one another(vacuum/exuahst leak)
I think you'd come out ahead if you purchased a remanufactured head or something
dont forget new head bolts.
Find a way to measuer the thickness of the new head. stop by a local machine shop or something.
most alluminum heads have a specifacation for minimum thickness due to commpression ratio/valve lash tolerance/timing chain...stuff like that
the fix for is what they call a head saver shim. just a piece of steel that looks like a gasket.
oh! one more thing as that some aluminum sticking to the cylinder wall? If it is pull that piston if you can and make sure it didnt break the rings(DONT BUMP THE ROD JOURNAL!!)
I'll post minimum thickness tomorrow
the cracks is typical for that model. you didnt show how far the cracks go between the cylinders. 1/16" from the hole 1/8th". if they're real small the head would last you for a while. however the cracks will eventually run causing Another gasket failure.
the cracks in between the valves, on thisi particular model is not a big deal unless they go so deep and are so wide they cause the ports to feed one another(vacuum/exuahst leak)
I think you'd come out ahead if you purchased a remanufactured head or something
dont forget new head bolts.
Find a way to measuer the thickness of the new head. stop by a local machine shop or something.
most alluminum heads have a specifacation for minimum thickness due to commpression ratio/valve lash tolerance/timing chain...stuff like that
the fix for is what they call a head saver shim. just a piece of steel that looks like a gasket.
oh! one more thing as that some aluminum sticking to the cylinder wall? If it is pull that piston if you can and make sure it didnt break the rings(DONT BUMP THE ROD JOURNAL!!)
I'll post minimum thickness tomorrow
skel924
12-27-2005, 10:30 PM
thanks for the reply!
no there is nothing on the walls of the cylinders (besides some piston movement marks)... i just took that picture to show those particles everywhere that look like sand grains.
and i think it will have to be milled anyway, as it over heated pretty bad whiel i was driving it home (spewing white smoke)
how much of a problem would that missing piece of metal cause in cylinders 1 and 2 if i were to reuse this head?
also, i was having a pinging problem that got progressively worse when it warmed up. could that piece of missing metal in cylinders 1 and 2 cause it? its very rough where the metal is missing, kind of like a pumice rock.
finally.. whats the best way to clean out the oil and coolant passges in the block? im going to take the oil pan off because of all the junk im finding in the coolant passagesways in the head. also some nasty milky colored oil. could i pressure wash without damaging anything? if so, how do i remove the water from the block before filling with oil?
no there is nothing on the walls of the cylinders (besides some piston movement marks)... i just took that picture to show those particles everywhere that look like sand grains.
and i think it will have to be milled anyway, as it over heated pretty bad whiel i was driving it home (spewing white smoke)
how much of a problem would that missing piece of metal cause in cylinders 1 and 2 if i were to reuse this head?
also, i was having a pinging problem that got progressively worse when it warmed up. could that piece of missing metal in cylinders 1 and 2 cause it? its very rough where the metal is missing, kind of like a pumice rock.
finally.. whats the best way to clean out the oil and coolant passges in the block? im going to take the oil pan off because of all the junk im finding in the coolant passagesways in the head. also some nasty milky colored oil. could i pressure wash without damaging anything? if so, how do i remove the water from the block before filling with oil?
Floyd_ODB
12-27-2005, 10:57 PM
I dont think that little piece will hurt anything. one problem is that I cant tell you if its cracked anywhere else, you'll have to have a pro at least look at,dyecheck it or pressure test it. when I took a second look I think I see a couple of cracks in an intake valve(first pic).
you'll need to have that head resurfaced and probly a valve job some new valves and prbly some guide work.
It may just be cheaper and your sister wont worry so much about where and when she'll be stuck on the side of the road.
your knock is something else. the stuff in the water jacket looks like stop leak(of some kind?)or steel shot that somebody tried using for stop leak.
detonation(ping or knock) can cause over heating
overheating can cause detonation
I'd put a new head on check the timeing and the fuel to start. It could be as simple as an O2 sensor
you'll need to have that head resurfaced and probly a valve job some new valves and prbly some guide work.
It may just be cheaper and your sister wont worry so much about where and when she'll be stuck on the side of the road.
your knock is something else. the stuff in the water jacket looks like stop leak(of some kind?)or steel shot that somebody tried using for stop leak.
detonation(ping or knock) can cause over heating
overheating can cause detonation
I'd put a new head on check the timeing and the fuel to start. It could be as simple as an O2 sensor
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