Caprice best year??

I've been thinking about getting a caprice, from 1990 on up what is the best year, I really want to get a 9c1 but its very hard to find a nice one and in my price range which is around $5,000.

I'd look for a 93 9C1 myself. You get the open wheel wheels of the later cars and you get the good old reliable, cheap tobuy parts for L05 engine. Sure the LT1 makes alot more power. But the parts alot more $$$. I think that offsets the power loss...

That plus the L05 is modifiable, with off-the-shelf SBC parts, to equal or better the power output of the LT1. My car, being an '88, has the LM1 carbureted 350 in it, but it has been rebuilt and now produces a bit more power than a stock LT1 (275hp, 345 lb. ft). The advantage of the LT1 is its SFI and the inherent fuel efficiency of it - an LT1 generally uses less fuel than the L03 305 engine. My LM1 doesn't approach that level of economy.

yeah the lo5 is a good motor id also look for a 93 because it has the open wheel wells, but i really like 95 and 96s because of the irros but then again the doors are interchangeable and you can mount the 95-96 mirrors on a 91-94

94' or newer. LT1!!!!

95 you get the nice mirrors and quarter windows OBD1 available LT1.
Bolton LT1s are over 300REAR WHEEL HP you are going to need to signifigantly modify an LO5 to get there and MANY of the LT1 part are interchangable with the LO5 anyway it is a select few parts that are different and admittedly more expensive.

Also do not get hung up on the 9C1 thing they were fleet vehicles designed for that use, there are VERY few differences between them and a civilian car and almost nothing actually desirable for a daily driver or even weekend car. They had rear disc which GM failed to redisign the proportioning valve for so they do almost nothing in most conditions, the have an external oil cooler which randomly cools rather than regulates the oil temp like the civilian car in radiator setup does. They came with more lower body bushings but weren't tight when new so here 10 years later they are completely loose anyway. The only really true upgrade the 9C1 offered that is possibly a good thing for a daily driver is the silicone radiator hoses and well if you need hoses on a civi car the Goodyear HiMilers at $80 will probably outlast the already 10 year old car as they are better thanblack rubber but not quite as good as silicone bit at a much lower price.

The 9C1 rear brakes can be modified to work properly but still don't offer any tangible benifit over the civi drums it is the front brakes on these cars that are weak for their size. The 9C1 used a different caliper with the same sized piston it just took a thicker pad for longer life it offers zero extra stopping power. The oil cooler difference I mentioned was a good thing for a car sitting in summer heat idling for hours on end but is bad for a daily driver.
The only downside to a civilian LT1 Caprice is it would most likely have a mechanical fan to go with the towing package it likely has.
If a good reliable powerful RWD car is what you want you could consider the Roadmasters too, more creature comforts. I had my Caprice for over 4.5 years when a deer totalled it I began wagon shopping so I had something to drive during the Caprice's resurection and at first shyed away from the Roadmasters but then was offered a great deal and couldn't be happier. Heated leather, better and more adjustable seats, and the pure utility a wagon offers in this case. The Roady wagons use Caprice sheetmetal tyhe Roady sedans have differt sheetmetal which many might consider undesirable but how much can you see from the driver seat.

You make too many generalizations, 96capricemgr, especially about 9c1. As far as being desirable for daily driver, I loved it as a daily driver (depends on what you define as being the usage of a daily driver). I drove my old white boxy 1990 9c1 up and down the interstate to school (70 miles each way), 5 days a week, for two years to community college. It loved the interstate and it probably was designed more for the open interstate as opposed to someone who drives through commuter traffic or short, slow roads to work (downtown for example).

Things I loved about my 1990 9c1 over civilian Caprice of that model year, or other cars for that matter:

-Larger motor (350 was not available in civilian Caprice that year)
-Fair gas milage (not as good as LT1 or a Honda Civic, but people probably won't buy a 9c1 for gas milage; milage still probably better than some trucks or SUVs)
-Parts fairly cheap $$ (cheaper than later model years)
-Rubber floor matting (good if a friend spills a drink, that happend to me once)
-Cloth front of seat/vinyl rear of seat
-45/45 bucket seats with 10" between (option with 9c1); good for aftermarket center console
-Larger radiator, oil cooler (standard with 9c1), transmission cooler (optional with 9c1), power steering cooler (optional with 9c1)
-Calibrated speedometer from factory that goes to 120mph (as opposed to civilian that goes only to 85mph)
-Heavy duty frame with reinforcement of certain frame members (I have two accidents to atone to that; I walked away from both)
-Heavy duty front and rear brakes (front disc, rear drum) with semi-metallic lining with stop very, very well (my last accident; I didn't hit the dogs)
-Heavy duty suspension (90 and earlier boxy suspension I've heard was more firm than later models)

As far as suspension being loose, I image any old car's suspension might loosen up, 9c1 or not. The 9c1 suspension should actually be firmer than the civilian because the 1994 to 1996 civilian models/Impala SS had several body bushings MISSING from the factory, resulting in a looser suspension.

One more note as far as brake stopping power, '90 models and earlier models did not have anti-lock brakes which might affect braking under dry road conditions.

As far as L05 to LT1, my reading thus far has suggested to me that the L05 was not a big HP producer (190 to 205 depending on model year); however, it was a good torque producer (285 to 300 depending on model year). The LT1, on the other hand, was a strong HP producer (260, up 55 to 70 HP from L05) and a good torque producer (330, up only 45 to 30 TQ from L05).

In the end, it depends upon people's preferences. A 9c1 might not have the comforts of a Buick Roadmaster, but that only if those features are what you want. For some (me included), the ruggid yet reliable (tried and true) features of the 9c1 draw a them because those are exactly what they are looking for.

thanks for all your input, i guess the one main reasons i was looking at caprices is because they are rwd not having my own car yet my dad lets me drive his pickup and i don't know if i could switch to a fwd car, i mean rwd vehicles are just to much fun to drive, and i have been told by many people that they wish they hadn't spent so much money on their first car so thats another big + for me

OK I will give you the point on older cars the 9C1 was the only way to get the 350 but my points about how little the 9C1 offers in heavy duty components still stands.
As far as freeway use that is not the long hours of idling the external oil cooler can be good for and is exactly when it could be detrimental.

My point was not meant to be "don't buy a 9C1" but rather "don't buy a 9C1 based on the mistaken belief you would be getting something better or extra". Is that clearer? Same goes for the people who put the Impala up on a pedastal it is just another Caprice too. These cars are old just find a nice one and do not get hung up on civilian or 9C1 look for one in good shape with whatever engine you want.

OK I will give you the point on older cars the 9C1 was the only way to get the 350 but my points about how little the 9C1 offers in heavy duty components still stands.
As far as freeway use that is not the long hours of idling the external oil cooler can be good for and is exactly when it could be detrimental.

My point was not meant to be "don't buy a 9C1" but rather "don't buy a 9C1 based on the mistaken belief you would be getting something better or extra". Is that clearer? Same goes for the people who put the Impala up on a pedastal it is just another Caprice too. These cars are old just find a nice one and do not get hung up on civilian or 9C1 look for one in good shape with whatever engine you want.

The 9C1 is a car built for severe duty use - look what it's used for - the handling is tighter than on the civvie car due to some improvements in the suspension over the civvie car, the extra body mounts and heavier frame components make it a stronger car for use by those (like me) who tend to want everything out of their car.

It's true that 9C1 is a fleet option, and some of those things are not necessary for general driving. For those of us in hotter climates, the oil cooler is a good idea because as oil heats up, it loses viscosity (and oil pressure falls some) as it gets hotter.

The 9C1 also has an improved cooling system over a civilian car, again something to think about when you live in a hotter place such as Arizona, Florida, So. Cal, etc. The transmissions are also heavier duty in the older 9C1s (up to '92, civvie TH200-4R 9C1 TH700-R4/4L60). The electrical systems are also heavy duty - resulting in lower duty cycles and increased life in a civilian application. Not only are these cars designed to idle for long periods of time, they're also designed for sustained high-speed operation as well as extreme punishment.

Taking my car for example (which is an '88 boxy model), there are improvements in the dash layout - trunk opener on the left side of the dash (vs. in the glovebox), factory gauges for volts/oil pres/temp, the 120MPH speedometer vs. the 85 stocker, solid grounding of all body components, silicone hoses (as you noted), suspension designed for use with wider tires which lead to increased handling, and increased braking next to the civvie car (larger rotors and drums, more braking area). In my model year (and through the '93 model year), the 350 option was only available with the 9C1 and that came with an option for a 3.42 ratio final drive gearing which was not available on the civvie car.

In short, the 9C1 is designed to increase reliability and uptime, withstand punishment that the civvie version might have a problem with, and keep costs down. Granted, the civvie car offers a smoother, softer ride, but I am not that old yet so driving precision takes priority over a cushy ride.

Oh, and personal preference - the 45/45 bucket seats are more comfortable to sit in, and the console between them makes for a more ergonomically friendly driving environment. Of course, I also have a Panasonic Toughbook laptop mount which would not fit on a car with bench seats.

My exertise is primarily the 94-6 cars and I don't use that word lightly I spend way to much time on the car and researching. For that generation the chassis all have the extra bracing it came with the extra weight of the round body. Suspension and body bushings are all shot by now as I already covered on the bushings anyway but if you have a 9C1 with original bilseins or something they are so far beyond shot as to be considered a negative and proof of neglect of the vehicle.
Some of your points are valid about the earlier years but at the same time you are proving my point about people convincing themselves the 9C1 is much more than it really is. NOBODY has oil temp problems with these things even those of us who deleted the oil cooler because any additional plumbing is a restriction and will hurt oil pressure, so your argument about the superiority of the 9C1 oilcooler is meaningless. On the brakes the LT1 civi cars got 11" rear drums and the same front discs as covered the 9C1 got barely funtional rear discs.
Go on and on all you want about the vast superiority of the 9C1 and I will gladly correct you as it is a myth that needs to be put down.

I do know the TBI cars got a little better exhaust larger injectors and some other little tidbits but if you care about that stuff you are likely to change it anyway.

I don't understand what it is with people who think the 9C1 simply existed between '91 and '96. It's a FACT that all later civilian models (all LT1 and L99 models) have much of the equipment that only 9C1 cars did before.

And, what is it with you automatically assuming that all of our 9C1s still have factory suspension parts on them? There are replacement parts for those cars from places including AutoZone.

My exertise is primarily the 94-6 cars

Again, they existed well before then.

You're stating that qualifies you to espouse your expertise regarding ALL 9C1 cars vs. civilian models. Truth be told, I don't really care for the beluga body style of the 91-up cars, I prefer the 87-90 ones.

Wake up and pee, the world's on fire!

The argument about the oil cooler is double-edged. The extra plumbing could result in less pressure and theoritically, more bends and turns for sediment to collect and cause blockage. On the other hand, one must remember, as silicon212 pointed out, these cars were made for extreme punishment. Once again, here is the theory:

As oil heats up, it changes its viscocity. This change may not be much at first, but as that temperature continues to rise, the oil WILL change viscocity. This means the oil does not coat the internals as well. This could be extremely bad in the case of the oil wedge in the main bearings (the only thing that prevents contact and wiping out a sliding surface bearing (not anti-friction bearing) is the oil wedge). This might not be a remote possibility in cool climates, but a car that is designed and may be required to maintain abusive driving, such as WOT for any real length of time (such as a high speed chase) in very warm to hot conditions, needs that protection. As we all know, oil is the lifeblood of any engine and is one of the easiest ways to kill an engine.

Another note on braking, the 91 and later model Caprice, as a result of restyling, tended to be a lot more nose heavy than the boxy models. Thus, more of the braking force ended up on the front end (which caused the Caprice to go through front brake pads much faster until it was re-portioned and the pad composition changed in 92).

9c1s are designed to be abused and carry on.

In defense of 96capricmgr, I tried out the brakes on a '93 Caprice 9c1 and a '95 Caprice 9c1 (both as possible replacements for my totalled '90 9c1). I did notice that the 93 seemed to stop A LOT harder and in less distance than the 95. It must have to do with the rear discs in the 94-96 9c1 models. The only thing I could attribute it to, since discs are supposed to stop better than drums, is that the rear discs need more pressure. This is how I understand disc/drum brakes:

Disc brakes are supposed to stop better than drum brakes; however, disc brakes require more fluid pressure to operate than drums. Hense, why most, if not all Chevrolet models with discs (introduced in 1967), usually have power brakes because mere pedal pressure does not generate enough pressure for disc brakes to operate.

Hope this helps.

The problem with the disc brake setup is the proportioning valve. It can be easily fixed to allow for more rear pressure. This simple mod has been addressed countless times on numerous ImpSS/Caprice websites/lists...

The only rear benefit to the discs is that they will brake more consistently over EXTENDED hard braking. Heads up, 1 time emergency braking with drums vs. discs and it's toss-up. No great benefit to average drivers.

Probably the thing they are best for is looking prettier behind big wheels....

Yes a $20 bolt can help the 94-6 disc rears to work much better but it is a prime example of how 9C1 doesn't mean supercar like many want to believe.

Also it is drums that require high pressure and discs require large volume of fluid.
I have a close friend who was into 9C1s and settled on a civi 95 for his wife and the more he learns even he admits they are not that different.
As to leaving out the boxy cars, let's be honest they are so old as to not be the best choice for daily drivers anymore though their lighter weight could make them fun for play. Same basic chassis from 78-96 so you could use the Impala SS stuff.

I will also admit that I look at this stuff from the performance daily driver(20k+ a year) that is what I want, others will have differnt goals. For this the LT1 is the place to start with just a cam/springs and rockers inside the engine it dynoed 290rwhp the other day which is somewhere around 360 at the flywheel, I get low 18-23mph depending on the conditions and it has run 13.6 on street tires 13.2 on slicks and I can still use it to tow a small boat even on several hundred mile trips.

As far as boxies being too old for daily drivers, this seems like a purely subjective opinion. If you can find one that is in good shape, you can be richly rewarded. Believe me, I know from personal experience. Parts are cheaper cost wise, tend to require the same maintanance as regular cars, and the parts tend to last longer than cvilian cars.

As far as civilian/9c1 differences, like silicon212 said, by the '94-96 models, a lot of the features that were previously 9c1 only features had been incorporated into the civilian model were added to the civilian models every year. However, these 9c1 features remained 9c1 only features:

-Heavy duty frame
-100% silicon rubber hoses with stainless steel worm drive hose clamps (guaranteed for lifetime of the car, which adds to reliability)
-Specially calibrated transmission (generally with higher shift points than civilian model)
-8.5" ring gear rear axle
-radio bonding strap (keeps car body grounded together, helps with radio/CB equipment)
-Heavy duty seats
-Specially balanced drive shaft

To some people, these features may not matter; however, to some they can make all the difference in the world.