Robots

I was watching the movie I, Robot and it got me to thinking. (some may already know I think about this stuff when I watch movies as seen in the Zombies? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=407296) thread after Dawn of the Dead)

Anyway, for years we have been trying to get walking talking robots. Basically we've tried to mimic humans and/or animals in machine form. Sony received lots of media attention when their robotic dog first hit stores. A couple of years ago a company made a walking talking robot that could walk up stairs. It's movements were very limited though and it was considered to be slow.

In the movies I, Robot it was almost 30 years from now and robots were part of our lives. They could move very fast, were fairly smart, and were all over the place.

Here are my questions for you guys to answer.

1. How long will it take before our technology will become very compact to where we can fit it anywhere
and advanced enough to run the computers and software needed?

We already have the software to make very advanced A.I. in computers and stuff. How long before a robot with the size of a human head will have A.I. to respond to it's environment, have knowledge very advanced that would take a human high school and college to get, and the hardware to process it's environment and respond to it?

Right now I don't think we could cram it all in to the cranium of a robot. I think it will probably be between 10-15 years before we can do this. We will have ways to store mass amounts of knowledge in very small spaces. Think the current size of the internet's information compacted into something the size of a sugar cube.
Right now we'd need several processors to scan through all this information. In the future I think we'll be able to make one, a pair, or a trio of processors that can work together and do all this. (think of the cell that Sony just made) Our processors then will be so advanced, a computer's A.I. can scan through this huge pool of knowledge, find the information it needs, and use it the way it needs. Not to mention all the information a robot would encounter while taking a walk through the park. All the sounds, smells, visions, and textures that would have to be processed.
Finally the A.I. will have to be advanced. To be able to store all this information coming in, taking the vast information stored, and using all this within the programming of the robot. The computer system needed to run this thing will have to be small. Right now A.I. computers are fairly large.

2. How long before we can make very fast, quick, mobil machines, and small enough to fit human form?

Right now the robots we have are slow and clumsy. How long before we can make hydrolics and machinery to make our robots move like humans? When will we have this machinery small enough to where it can fit in arms and legs?

I'm guessing it'll be in 20 years before we can do that. To be able to cram all the cables and everything needed to make a robot run, jump, walk, and do basic labor skills will take some time.

3. How will they be powered?

I don't know what kind of power system would be needed but it'd have to be very small and last a long, long time. I'm thinking some type of ultra high compact power cells. What I'm saying is the power of all the car batteries in a Wal-Mart, all crammed into something the size of a pop can.

4. Will there be a type of three laws and could they be broken?

1. A robot may not harm a human being, or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.

2. A robot must obey the orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.

3. A robot must protect its own existence, as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

Will we create such laws to try to give ourselves a confidence that we're in control and won't get harmed?

The problem is we've all heard "laws are made to be broken" which could be used here. These laws would have to be programed into the robots. Programs can be deleted or re-writen, right?

4. Could an advanced A.I. computer become aware?

A.I. would have to be advanced to do all the orders our robots would need to do. Could an A.I. computer get so much information from its environment, learn and know so much, and become aware of what it really is?

What I'm saying is could a robot say, "I'm alive, I'm independant, I can learn, I can teach, I can evolve to better myself, I'm aware of what I am."

5. If this A.I. become independant and aware, would it see humanity as old, weak, and outdated?

If a robot became aware of what it was, would it turn?

Obviously if this were to happen, robots could store vast amounts of information and recall it anytime they wished (unlike humans who have to sit and think a little bit and don't remember everything they've learned), they could move faster and would be stronger (metal beats bone and flesh), their processors and hardware could create thoughts much faster than the human brain (Deep Blue vs. Garry Kasparov), and could see that the typical robot is far more advanced than the typical human.

6. If robots become cheap, mass produced, smart, and can do task like or better than humans, could they cause an economic depression of some sorts?

If robots are easy to transport and get out, could they create a depression or mess with the world economy? What I'm saying is there would be a huge crowd of unemployed people who couldn't do what a robot could do.

Garbage men, movers, brick layers, road workers, construction workers, mail men, and people who are required to use their back more than their brain, would be laid off. What would happen with this huge crowd of un-employed people? Would we sink into another depression?

Robots don't eat, sleep, need rest, they can work all day and night at a nice steady pace, their work environment could be very harsh, and they could just do things better and faster than a human.

I know this is starting to happen now, but still this would affect a whole lot more people.




Anyway, I hope you find this interesting and I hope to hear some interesting ideas and comments.

It's an interesting concept Muscletang, but:

"...IBM has won a $290 million contract to build two of the first computers capable of equaling the theoretical processing power of the human brain."

"Brains are portable; ASCI Purple will be the size of 197 refrigerator-size boxes covering 8,900 square feet (about the size of two basketball courts) and will weigh 197 tons. The average brain is 56 cubic inches and weighs 3.3 pounds."

A little quick math tells you that machine is more than 119,000 times larger than the human brain.

I don't see AI taking over anytime soon...:iceslolan

http://www.wired.com/news/infostructure/0,1377,56459,00.html

I agree with the idea, but even though the internet is full of information, A.I. doesn't have real-life experience to be able to tell what is BS and what is hard fact. While I know robots are already taking over our jobs, we still have lots of work that requires a brain. A computer an only answer "Yes" or "No".

A little quick math tells you that machine is more than 119,000 times larger than the human brain.

One of the very first computers, ENIAC, weighed 27 tons, consumed gobs of power, and could do no more than a scientific calculator.
Over time though that technology was compacted and made to run faster with very little power. Now we have scientific calculators that weigh less than a pound, fit in your pocket, and can run off of a couple of solar cells.

This thing will be huge at first, but after it's done people will look at it and say, how can I make it smaller, faster, and better?

A.I. doesn't have real-life experience to be able to tell what is BS and what is hard fact.

Can you go into this a little more?

Example, a kid puts a high voltage sign on his bedroom door. A robot with A.I. might see this and think it will fry its circuts if it touches it. A human knows it's just fake. Is that what you mean?

While I know robots are already taking over our jobs, we still have lots of work that requires a brain. A computer an only answer "Yes" or "No".

Maybe for the high up jobs but lower skilled labor jobs don't. In a day, construction crews could be gone because robots are just better. They can go all day and night in any condition and all you have to do is show them the blueprints and say "build it."

Can you go into this a little more?

Example, a kid puts a high voltage sign on his bedroom door. A robot with A.I. might see this and think it will fry its circuts if it touches it. A human knows it's just fake. Is that what you mean?

That is a good example, but humans are greedy, we cheat, lie, steal and kill eachother. How does a robot tell who and what is honest if it can only see words. If I was to put 100% inacurate information on the internet which seemed believeable, how is a robot suppose to figure it out if even some humans are fooled by it. As for building a house, a robot would need every ability of movement and skills that take humans years to master. I.E. ballancing, or leaning to use a hammer. It would take years and tons of technology to master the movements of a human. A robot can help in other areas, like cutting wood, maybe installing pipes and things like that.

That is a good example, but humans are greedy, we cheat, lie, steal and kill eachother. How does a robot tell who and what is honest if it can only see words.

Who knows, maybe they'll be able to see facial patterns, body temperature, heart rate, breathing rate, and other things.

Robots might make caculations like "when human male, 6'3, 218, becomes upset, heart rate increases 2.53% with an increase temperature of 3.27 degrees" and "when human male, 6'3, 218, becomes sad, heart rate decreases 1.38% with an increase temperature of 2.27 degrees."

If I was to put 100% inacurate information on the internet which seemed believeable, how is a robot suppose to figure it out if even some humans are fooled by it.

Well why would a robot be on the internet?

As for building a house, a robot would need every ability of movement and skills that take humans years to master. I.E. ballancing, or leaning to use a hammer. It would take years and tons of technology to master the movements of a human. A robot can help in other areas, like cutting wood, maybe installing pipes and things like that.

As I said, we don't have the machinery to make robots even move like a human yet. We'll need that before they can do any task like us.

Then there could be programming. A company that does contracts might upload Plumber 3.0 into these robots, Foundation 2.7 into these robots, and other things so each group of robots can work on each area of the building as it's constructed.

Well why would a robot be on the internet?

LMAO! :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Well why would a robot be on the internet?

LMAO! :rofl::rofl::rofl:

I like the Robot in that "flop" movie with Al Pacino. The robots name started with the letter "S", but I can't remember the title. I, along with a couple of hundred other people saw that movie!! :)

I like the Robot in that "flop" movie with Al Pacino. The robots name started with the letter "S", but I can't remember the title. I, along with a couple of hundred other people saw that movie!! :)
Serpico?

No, that was about a NYC cop that was honest and his coworkers tried to kill him. I'll see if I can search it and get back with the answer if someone else doesn't beat me to it!

Found it.... S1m0ne was the name of the movie.

This is what I read. I figured it was a robot movie.

http://www.fancyrobot.com/2004/08/serpico.html

Off the top of my head the only other Pacino movie I can think of would be Scarface. No robots in that though.

After seeing the looks of that "robot" girl in the movie. I was ready to buy one for myself, but my wife said, no!

This is a philosophizing section, not TV/film/entertainment.

Here are my questions for you guys to answer.[


1. How long will it take before our technology will become very compact to where we can fit it anywhere
and advanced enough to run the computers and software needed?

I see it happening in our lifetimes, certainly within the next 50 years. In the last 50, we've gone from building-sized computers that were less capable than your pocket calculator, to cell phones that can transmit moving video.


2. How long before we can make very fast, quick, mobil machines, and small enough to fit human form?

If we're talking about human-sized and shaped robots, such as in I, Robot, it will probably be awhile. But there will be great public outcry when it happens.


3. How will they be powered?

Fuel cells or some very efficient battery. The power source seems the be the weak link, for now. Once the oil runs out there will be great progress into new types of energy.


4. Will there be a type of three laws and could they be broken?

As in any programming, the programmer ultimately controls what the machine does. I'm sure that there will always be the honest scientist that intends for some laws to be programmed and followed; but, just like the movie, there will always be someone or something that wants to corrupt the programming for other purposes.


4. Could an advanced A.I. computer become aware?

Ultimately, IMO, yes but it will depend on whether or not "thinking machines" can develop creativity. And networking computers adds to the power so you wouldn't need to have all the circuits in the same place to make it happen.


5. If this A.I. become independant and aware, would it see humanity as old, weak, and outdated?

Depends on the perceptive abilities that were programmed, and a thing called creativity, which so far machines haven't shown.

Assuming AI became aware, I don't think that the "Terminator" series of movies were that farfetched. Think about "The Matrix" also - humans could be seen as a virus, an inferior life form, which although was the Creator for the computers had outlived its usefulness.


6. If robots become cheap, mass produced, smart, and can do task like or better than humans, could they cause an economic depression of some sorts?

How about the rich get them and sit around and do nothing. Then they spread to menial tasks, removing the cost of say, picking oranges from the people that currently do that job. Since they'd be replacing people, it could be good but I think at first it will have a negative impact...headlines: "Robots Cause Unemployment to Jump 15%"....

:2cents:

http://marshallbrain.com/robotic-nation.htm

From the article:

One of the key capabilities limiting robotic expansion at the moment is image processing -- the ability of robots to look at a scene like a human does and detect all the objects in the scene. Without general, flexible vision algorthms, it is hard for a robot to do much. For example, it is hard for a blind robot to clean a bathroom or drive a car. Part of the problem is raw CPU power, but that problem will be solved over the next 20 to 30 years because of Moore's law. The other part is a software problem. We don't have really good algorithms yet. My prediction is that we will see significant progress in the image processing field over the next 20 years. Think about the changes that will take place once basic research in image processing yields the algorithms we need. Suddenly it will be easy for robots to walk around and manipulate objects in any human environment. Robotic cars and trucks are one obvious application for vision systems. There are more than 40,000 deaths in the U.S. every year because of car accidents. Human negligence causes most of these accidents. With robots doing all the driving, the number of accidents will go way down and we will eliminate one of the leading causes of death in the U.S. Unfortunately, robotic vehicles will also leave every taxi driver, bus driver, truck driver, etc. out of work. Robots with vision systems will be able to do all the cleaning in every hotel, store, airport and restaurant. Things will be spotless, but that will unemploy perhaps five million people. Robots with vision can stack brick, lay tile, paint and put on roofs all day and all night. Five million more people will be out of work. Robots with vision can easily stock shelves in stores. Think of all the workers stocking shelves, restocking merchandise, taking inventory, directing customers and manning cash resisters in places like Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Target, Home Depot, Lowes, BJ's, Sam's Club, Toys R Us, Sears, J.C. Penny's, Barnes and Noble, Borders, Best Buy, Circuit City, Office Max, Staples, Office Depot, Kroger's, Winn-Dixie, Pet Depot and on and on and on. More than 10 million employees will be on the street. Armies of robots with built-in night vision will be able to provide security and policing unlike anything we can imagine today. And so on.A single research area -- computer vision -- will have a tremendous impact once it reaches its goal of general, flexible image processing algorithms. This is analogous to the development of airplanes. Nothing happened in the field of aviation until the Wright Brothers made the breakthrough that got the first airplane off the ground. 44 short years after the breakthrough, supersonic flight was possible. Once robots have flexible, accurate vision systems, the pace of change will be unbelievably rapid and unstoppable. Tens of millions of people will become unemployed over the course of just two to three decades. If you think about it, robots are a very good thing. Human beings should not be driving trucks, flipping burgers or scrubbing toilets. These activites represent a massive waste of human potential. The question is: what will these tens of millions of people do to make a living when their tens of millions of jobs evaporate? What will happen to the economy when the unemployment rate reaches 30% or 40%?

From AlmostStock:

The writer goes on with his predictions and suggestions, and there are lots of side bars to click on. I haven't read it all. I will say that if robots ever do come to this type of development and prominence (and that's a big "if" for me) then "great public outcry" will be a huge understatement. My first thought was that the misplaced human workers would be making robots, but that wouldn't happen because robots would be doing that too. The humans without jobs would do what ever they could against robots and companies that use or make them, including using terror tactics against them. After many more years of evolving, the robots themselves thinking they are superior, will want to take over the humans. Eventually there will be an all out robot verses human war. I wonder who will win?

Seing as an EMP would wipe out robots in one swipe, I think we would win as soon as things started blowing up. :icon16: