Engine Building Questions.

3.8 / 3800

is it possible to have it bored and stroked to like 4.5 liters? and keep it street legal? might have to get it sleeved? i donno if i would wanna go with sleeving it but it might be wiser to have it sleeved and reinforced anyway to make sure it wont blow apart into a million lil peices.

when you have your block bored out for bigger pistons how do you find pistons to fit the new bore? what about flatter top pistons so you can get like a 9:1 compression ratio?

what about heads? i guess what ever heads you get will also have to be bored, but also how do you decide what rockers, valves, cam shafts and crank shafts, and what ever else im missing will work properly and give you what your looking for?

First of all why would you want to put all that money into it when you could have a V8?

Manufactures make Pistons for standard bore sizes and overbore sizes. Once you know what size you want to bore it out to, you can probably find pistons for that bore size as long as its something standard.

Compression is based on Piston and Head combinations.

Also, Blocks can be bored. Heads can be ported, but not bored. Note that if you bore out your block, you can use the same heads, or other heads that fit the same engine.

First of all why would you want to put all that money into it when you could have a V8?

Manufactures make Pistons for standard bore sizes and overbore sizes. Once you know what size you want to bore it out to, you can probably find pistons for that bore size as long as its something standard.

Compression is based on Piston and Head combinations.

Also, Blocks can be bored. Heads can be ported, but not bored. Note that if you bore out your block, you can use the same heads, or other heads that fit the same engine.

ok, thanks

how do you increase stroke? by swaping the crank shaft?

is it possible to have a 4 inch stroke on these engines?

also if i make the 3.8 a 4.5 liter engine will it still be street legal?


EDIT:

i would like the engine to have tons of low-end and top-end power, stop light to stop light, 1/4 mile, from a roll, i want it to be the engine that does it all. i just donno wdf im doing. or what i need to do to it so it does what i want.

i dont about 4.5 but 4.1 maybe. www.zzperformance.com (http://www.zzperformance.com/) You can get a lot of granprix stuff there.

Don't need to stroke it... there are cheaper ways of making the power stroker kits make

Don't need to stroke it... there are cheaper ways of making the power stroker kits make

And it involves the +2 piston modification :lol2:

or not

Don't need to stroke it... there are cheaper ways of making the power stroker kits make

if i stroke it and run 15psi or so i can make the engine push atleast 500hp

so what are these other ways? will i beable to get 500+hp? im looking for at the very least 500hp

a hefty shot of the juice. Or boosting the crap out of it. Put some good high compression heads and a blower cam and run up some boost and youll make some good power.

a hefty shot of the juice. Or boosting the crap out of it. Put some good high compression heads and a blower cam and run up some boost and youll make some good power.

i plan on running like 8.5:1 or 9:1 compresion and boosting.

Well my eventual plan is abbott stage 3 heads, a custom cam, and a turbo... with the right tuning and enough boost I wil be over that mark. A few cars are in the 400's rwhp right now, some boosted, some juiced too

Well my eventual plan is abbott stage 3 heads, a custom cam, and a turbo... with the right tuning and enough boost I wil be over that mark. A few cars are in the 400's rwhp right now, some boosted, some juiced too

yea, id like to get like 500+ to the wheels but i dont know how that will affect the daily driver ability

i wish i knew alot about engines, i wanna have a bad ass top end for over all speed and also a badass low end for those take offs that leave ppl with the wdf look on their face :eek7:

I'd say your best bet would be to rebuild it as a nitrous-friendly/maybe even nitrous specific engine.

Keep daily driver-ability and have CRAZY NAAWWWZZZZ for the strip :rofl: j/k... but seriously I think that is the best way to go if you don't have to mow mad muppets on a daily basis. :licka:

I used to despise nitrous since it is a "not always there" power adder, but in reality it makes sense.

I think I may take a new direction whenever I build my engine since I want it to handle extremely well(for auto-x) and also net me some 11 second time slips.

I would go boost, not juice

97, when do these plans go to affect? Are they long term?

Why couldnt you do both? Stick about 8-10psi in your motor and set a nice 250 shot right next to it.

That sounds like a plan.. expensive but nothing good isnt

97, when do these plans go to affect? Are they long term?

Definately long term... first I have to finish suspension and get my trans built ($1100 for a warranteed build good for 10 sec cars; my friend has been running 12s on one for a while now so it'll hold up fine for me), then the H/C/T will be done on a fresh block

Would you get a new block, or strip down your current one and clean up to be fresh. Btw, you gotta love the 700r4/4l60e, buuuulllllletproof. $1100, that's an awesome deal man. I'm actually think about staying with an automatic and getting the 4l60e instead of T-56. Cheaper to fix and rebuild, and cheaper to purchase aswell. Also, a more simplictic install compared to T-56 conversion (which isn't all that bad). A shift kit and correct stall will take you a looooonnnnngggg way man.

92z - 10psi and a 250 shot!?!?!? Jesus, thats nuts!!!!!! Would be awesome to see though.

Probably gonna be easier to get a new block, plus then I can take this one and give myself a crash course in engine buidling/rebuilding. It's sorta lieka double benifit... fresh block tonot worry abotu and I get to learn something I really wanna learn

Thats the best way to do it man. Good luck with it. Where are you getting the tranny from when you get it? Local or online?

8-10psi on a mild build v6 would be fairly decent on the street and then when you really want to get wild you have the juice to fall back on. Maybe just a 150 shot instead of a 250. That would be a potent little motor right there. Would definetly need some tough internals to take the abuse but it should work.

The 250 would be awesome. Crank up to 20psi and throw the 250 shot on top of it. That would be one beast indeed.

An obvious newb question here. The difference between a 100 and 250 shot is the amount of nitrous sprayed into the intake manifold/throttle body/whatever intrance in used? So they spray a shit load of that stuff into the motor with 250 shot? Isn't it super condensed 100% oxygen? Wouldn't you need more fuel to go along with it aswell? Just curious, haven't seen nitrous in work before. How much of a shot do you think a 305 Tpi could take safely?

Actually im not sure about how much nos you could use with 8 psi.... You would need a serious fuel system to support it I know that much.....im at work and I was trying to post quickly when I made the first estimate because I had a customer. Now im thinking that maybe 8 psi with a 100-150 shot would work. I just dont know how the boost and nitrous will interact. You would need a big dose of gasoline to make it all go down...great now im going to spend the rest of the day looking up information about nitrous and boost.......TO GOOGLE!

philly made a post reguard a basics of nitrous a while ago. I think he said for a factory engine you can usually figure that it can handle about 20 per cylinder. That would be 160 so you could run a 150 shot and be ok.....hopefully he will chime in sometime and fill us in on the boost/nitrous question. You could search the forums for the post. It was a few months back.

And no its not compressed oxygen. Its just Nitrous Oxide aka laughing gas. Basically is makes the air/fuel charger super cold which makes the oxygen going in the intake more dense which means more oxygen molecules. Thats my understanding.

I remember the post. So a healthy 305 could take a 150 shot. Not bad. That would put a stock over 300/300 which is almost LS1 territory. Why didn't i think of this when the car was on the road. The cheapest way to get power. Can get a a nitrous kit for about $600 bucks, right?

Viper, if your looking to a lot of power out of a 3.8, I'd start taking a look at the Buick GNs seeing is that they had good numbers out of the box, and with a little tweaking could get into some pretty large crowds when it came to displacments. Atleast to give you some base ideas?

Yeah, wrightz28 is right. Isn't doesn't take much at all to get that motor wherever you want it. Badass indeed.

first of all... finding performance heads for the v6 probably will be difficult, but you can check GM performance parts or check with v6fody.com.

I wouldn't mix boost and nitrous unless you are planning on doing some serious strip racing. having both would complicate tuning and would very much test the limits of your block. if you need that much power, you really should be using a v8 anyway.
for what you want to do, you definately want forged internals, crank, pistons, AND connecting rods (ARP bolts/studs). if you can find a stroker crank too, even better.

from what i see you have two options:

if you want it to be daily-driver-friendly: the internal parts mentioned above, performance heads, intake/exhaust, etc. Add a 150-300 shot of nitrous... a two stage system would be preferable if u use 200shot or more. This would give good tire-roasting performance on a daily basis, and severe gate-to-gate performance at the track, and more importantly the engine would probably live to do it again.

second: forced induction, turbo or supercharger. I prefer turbo because boost can generally be higher. 8-17psi, larger combusting chamber in the heads for lower compression. internals above, int/exhaust, 1.7 rockers on exhaust side, hotter spark plugs. This would give you all-the-time power in most of the rpm range. but definately not as friendly for gas, and slick-weather driving.

either combination you will need severly upgraded fuel system (fuel injection highly recommended), custom computer chip, and adjustable ignition retard box. these combos, depending on how you do it will definately have you in the 300-450hp+ range.

my question is, if you are going to do all of this work, why wouldn't u just build a v8? parts will be easier to find, and you'll hit 500hp much more easily without compromising the integrity of the block.

also, you do realize that this will cost around $3000 for the engine and rear-end/suspension parts, right? also which tranny did you buy, will it fit a v8?

What up Kevin. How's maro been treating you?

first of all... finding performance heads for the v6 probably will be difficult, but you can check GM performance parts or check with v6fody.com.

I wouldn't mix boost and nitrous unless you are planning on doing some serious strip racing. having both would complicate tuning and would very much test the limits of your block. if you need that much power, you really should be using a v8 anyway.
for what you want to do, you definately want forged internals, crank, pistons, AND connecting rods (ARP bolts/studs). if you can find a stroker crank too, even better.

from what i see you have two options:

if you want it to be daily-driver-friendly: the internal parts mentioned above, performance heads, intake/exhaust, etc. Add a 150-300 shot of nitrous... a two stage system would be preferable if u use 200shot or more. This would give good tire-roasting performance on a daily basis, and severe gate-to-gate performance at the track, and more importantly the engine would probably live to do it again.

second: forced induction, turbo or supercharger. I prefer turbo because boost can generally be higher. 8-17psi, larger combusting chamber in the heads for lower compression. internals above, int/exhaust, 1.7 rockers on exhaust side, hotter spark plugs. This would give you all-the-time power in most of the rpm range. but definately not as friendly for gas, and slick-weather driving.

either combination you will need severly upgraded fuel system (fuel injection highly recommended), custom computer chip, and adjustable ignition retard box. these combos, depending on how you do it will definately have you in the 300-450hp+ range.

my question is, if you are going to do all of this work, why wouldn't u just build a v8? parts will be easier to find, and you'll hit 500hp much more easily without compromising the integrity of the block.

also, you do realize that this will cost around $3000 for the engine and rear-end/suspension parts, right? also which tranny did you buy, will it fit a v8?

Damn,

I think it might of just been quicker and less damaging to tell him "you'll shoot your eye out kid"

:lol:

Finding performance heads for the 3.8 is not difficult at all, abbott racing makes awesome ones, another company (forgot their name) makes em too.

The boost and juice has not yet tested the limits of the block on anybody... including the sponsored cars in the 9's noone has really found the 3.8 block's limit yet.

As for stroker cranks what's out therre right now SUCK, just reground stock cranks that can hardly take any boost without snapping. There is a billet crank in the works, (again I forgot the company name would have to find it if someone wants) that looks very promising though

As for GNs, they use the 3800 series I block... 3.8 fbodies, grand prix's, etc use series II, and some newer cars have series III. I think you also forgot about the turbo trans ams??

and once again there is loads of info for all GM v6's at your fingertips via www.fullthrottlev6.com

What up Kevin. How's maro been treating you?

oh.... rear hatch is rattling, roomate broke driver-side door handle, odd ratling noise coming from starter/flywheel/header area when engine is cold, exhaust gasket leak.... other than all this little bullsh*t its okay.

I didn't realize that we were talking about a 3.8L, i was thinking 3.1L ... I have a friend who runs 17psi on his GN all day, and 22psi at the track... all factory parts. but my question still remains, why not do all this to an 8 cylinder?

If my memory serves me right, i believe viper has a cavalier, and he wants to swap a six in it. Not sure though.

If my memory serves me right, i believe viper has a cavalier, and he wants to swap a six in it. Not sure though.

well atleast someone actually reads the shit i post, ty link

ya know i kinda feel like im the new xeno in regards to no one reading what i post, and there are some ppl that are worse then me that can be ignored and nothing would be missed.

Is there anyway to beef up a supercharger from a regal/impala ss 3800 and slap it on there? Im not to knolegable on the differences bettween the 2 3800 other then one is fwd and one is rwd. But pickin up a superharger form a totaled one of those might be cheap. :2cents:

If my memory serves me right, i believe viper has a cavalier, and he wants to swap a six in it. Not sure though.
one word question: why

one word question: why

Answer: Ultimate Sleeper.


This has been done in GN's, Camaro's, and the Monte Carlo/Gran Prix/ Grand Am/Impala/Malibu (Take your pick) so it will be different.

Is there anyway to beef up a supercharger from a regal/impala ss 3800 and slap it on there? Im not to knolegable on the differences bettween the 2 3800 other then one is fwd and one is rwd. But pickin up a superharger form a totaled one of those might be cheap. :2cents:

1) you mean Regal GS and Grand Prix GTP... those are the ones that had factory blown 3800 series 2's.

2) short answer is no, aside from it not clearing the cowl/windshield the intake IIRC would be facing the firewall, a buncha other things, its easier to do a custom supercharger or turbocharger (that ones in ym cars distant future)

Bonnevilles (SSEi) and Park Ave ultras are blown too.

Answer: Ultimate Sleeper.


This has been done in GN's, Camaro's, and the Monte Carlo/Gran Prix/ Grand Am/Impala/Malibu (Take your pick) so it will be different.
ultimate sleeper because it will never be done..... be realistic

ultimate sleeper because it will never be done..... be realistic

It can be done. Just gotta have a dream and some deep pockets.

ultimate sleeper because it will never be done..... be realistic

once i goto school everything will work out, only thing is im so broke i cant even pay attention.