crazy import engines

i have seen all you pepul talk about your import engines making over 1000 horses off of a 4 cylinder and i have a little question. what would u think a chevy 350, or better yet a 454, would do? if i were hypothetically to put similiar levels of boost and nitrous and things of that nature on a gm v-8, what kind of power would i be looking at? i have never heard anything on what these engines are capable of, at power levels that require engine rebuilding after every race lol. i bet if i did something like that to my 350 it wouldnt even last a month lol.

well a 1000 hp engine is not going to be a reliable engine for daily driving no matter if it is a 350 or a 2.0. the only ways to make more power are A: to operate more efficiently by reducing the wieght of the reciporcating mass or using a higher comp ratio, etc. B: to burn more fuel by boring or using a larger engine to start with, or supercharging, etc. C: Spin faster. Pushrod V8s (such as your 350) generally cannot rev as high as overhead cam engines (such as almost all smaller import motors) which is one of the reasons that such small motors can make so much power.

yeah i bet it wouldnt even last for 1000 miles, the smallblock only revs up to maybe 6 or 7 k rpm too

you can make almost anything fast....4 cylinders are good for boost tho because of how high they can rev and still make power.....there are many V8s that make power into the 1000's......i prefer the 4 cylinder + boost method.......

I6+boost=the win. look at the supras dominating

I6+boost=the win. look at the supras dominating

agreed.

I6+boost=the win. look at the supras dominating
You Toyopet guys crack me up, such loyalty!
A Chev V8 is a fine place to start. I'd wager that you'd spend a lot less money to get a 350 Chev to 1,000 HP than a Toyota or whatever. ----------You have a lot more cubic inches on your side----, and a lot more aftermarket support. Unfortunately much of the aftermarket engine support is reletively "low-tech". And finding solid information in magazines like "Hot Rod" on building a maximum effort turbocharged Chevy engine is a pipe dream, as they are still in the retro dark ages.

yeah lol i saw some ad claiming it could make over 1500 horses on a 350 and 2400+ on some huge ass big block, prolly a 572 or bigger lol. it would be cool but nothing is worth 2 miles a gallon, although im sure it would be impossible to drive on a street anyways. the cam prolly makes all the power above 5000 rpm, definately a no-go lol

i would rather have my high output engine weight as little as possible. As Sterling Moss said, "the straights are just the boring bits between the curves." A big block weighs a whole lot compared to a 3 liter and that weight will kill you in the corners.

i dont care....i'm going to stick w/ my (soon-to-be)300whp Integra GSR.....i don't need a rocket....

Agreed, don’t need more than 300 whp. Will still haul some serious as5.

it will be streetable and fun, but at the same time reliable.......and the whole thing isn't going to cost an arm and a leg!!

C'mon, you guys are sounding practical!
What's up with that? ;)
(BTW, I hate going to the gas station too. I've also developed an allergy to broken transaxles also.)

im making a practical car...i have to because i drive my GSR daily and need it to last.....eventually maybe i'll play w/ it and boost the shit out of it!

I've seen Supra's and Skyline's with 1000 hp and being driven daily, a V8 could easily achive this. The only problem is that is would use alot of fuel and be tricky to drive on wet roads.

A daily driver with 300hp is enough for me.

i wouldn't want to drive a car like that daily tho...not only do i not need something that fast, i don't have the funds to do it. Im 18 (almost 19) and i have to pay for college, and i'm still going to boost......300whp is going to have to be fast enough!

Funny cars and Rails cars in the US are making well over 5,000hp useing supercharged V8s with massive amounts of displacement.

But they are not the sort of enigne you could drive to the shop. Unless its only 400meters away and you have a full pit crew waiting for you to get there.

Funny cars and Rails cars in the US are making well over 5,000hp useing supercharged V8s with massive amounts of displacement.

But they are not the sort of enigne you could drive to the shop. Unless its only 400meters away and you have a full pit crew waiting for you to get there.

Other than racing purposes, no one needs that much power.

i wouldn't want to drive a car like that daily tho...not only do i not need something that fast, i don't have the funds to do it. Im 18 (almost 19) and i have to pay for college, and i'm still going to boost......300whp is going to have to be fast enough!

That should be more than aduquit, 300bhp is alot for a GSR :iceslolan

oh shit...get rid of the B.....its 300WHP!!

You Toyopet guys crack me up, such loyalty!
A Chev V8 is a fine place to start. I'd wager that you'd spend a lot less money to get a 350 Chev to 1,000 HP than a Toyota or whatever. ----------You have a lot more cubic inches on your side----, and a lot more aftermarket support. Unfortunately much of the aftermarket engine support is reletively "low-tech". And finding solid information in magazines like "Hot Rod" on building a maximum effort turbocharged Chevy engine is a pipe dream, as they are still in the retro dark ages.
Uh I would have to disagree with you there, I have seen a stock block stock internal 2jz gte push just over 1000hp just cramming more air and more fuel into it. You will never find any chevy small block that can make that claim. If you were talking about any other import engine I would have to agree with you but not the toyota Supras engine. The modern chevy small blocks are not even realisticaly capable of withstanding that kind of boost, even if you bore and sleave them you are pushing it, I have not seen one do it yet. Anyway comparing modern engine to modern engine you would be spending much more to make the chevy small block reach 1000hp. I usualy don't side for the ricer engine but in this case I have to. BTW the fastest street legal car in America is a Toyota Supra (8.5 sec 1/4 mile) so don't be too quick to bash them. There is a new up and coming 1000hp monster in the near future the new 4g63s. with alot of the stock conponents intact I have seen one pull 740 wheel hp that is just shy of 900hp at the flywheel. It has run into the high 9s. It has over 22k miles on it, it is in the new Jan Turbo magazine. I would love to see a small block chevy beat that, but I am not going to hold my breath. (Side note) The Ls1 motor is one of my fav of all time because without any forced induction on a street legel cam in pure stock trim it can push over 300hp, with just a bolt on supercharger it can exede 500hp (all I would ever want on the street anyway), and it weighs less than some inline 4 bangers, so in that regard the ls1 is just as much a piece of automotive artwork as the 2jz, but it just does not have the strength to handle massive boost. If the supra was avalable with a toyota verson of the LS1 I would personaly take it over the 2jz (who needs 1000hp anyway).

[QUOTE=Moppie]Funny cars and Rails cars in the US are making well over 5,000hp useing supercharged V8s with massive amounts of displacement.


Yes but moppie those cars are using nitromethane, custom built 500cu inch engines (not production engine blocks), Massive unweildy roots style superchargers. The whole mess costs a fortuine (more than any three 1000hp supras) is not street legal, your fuel is a potent posion, not to mention not accessable to the genreal public, and even if you could get the whole fu**ing mess on the street it would not corner for s**t because of the huge roots superchargers that not only block your view but dagerously raise the canter of gravity of your car. Not to mention that they have to be completly rebuilt every 1/4 mile run, I think you could find a worse engine to put into anything on the street (except for a rotory :lol: just kidding guys you were ready to kill me hu?) I dont see how that is making any kind of case for the "American Iron" on this thread. You wanna se what American iron can do on the street? Get a big block chevy, stroke it, give it twin innercoolers, hot heads and cams, forged pistons and rods, a completely reinforced bottom end, and put twin configural superchargers and fuel injection on it then beef up your driveline with a heave duity automatic, a beefy torqueshaft and swap a 14bolt onto the rear. Then you have a supra killer, in a streight line anyway. :evillol: But by that point you have already spent more than the supra guys did, Sorry but this time I gatta go with the supra.

yeah it does get expensive no matter what way you go. the 720 horse 572 cubic inch gm crate engine is something like 12 grand i think, and thats before you add a blower and all that stuff i dont know anything about lol... however the 260 horse 350 smallblock from gm is only 1300 from jegs with everything except the intake, distributor, and carb. or go with the 290 horse one, just a slight drop in torque, for i think it was 1600. not bad for an engine like that. for it's displacement, in stock form it gets pretty good mileage, a 350 can get maybe 13 - 15 tops in the city for mpg at granny speeds, while my 2.something liter honda gets 26 tops in the city, (both carbureted). 76 horsepower versus 260, with only doubled fuel usage... not bad for a crappy old school motor lol... however, when it comes to modding, i bet the inline fours can make more power per cubic inch, unless you take that smallblock and beef up the internals, and obviously use a 4 bolt main block lol. i dont want to start crap here lol it usually ends up like that tho... ill just say for the record that the only imports i dont like are the ones with the punk kid driving them that claims 500 whatever rwhp with nothing but a fart can and some chromed up intake tube lol. makes the non-poser peeple look bad, and its kinda annoying when they pull up next to you and want to race all the time lol... i have a pickup goddamit leave me alone! lol...

OHC, whether they are single or dual over head cam, engines have better potential for high end power.....per CC....as far as a comparison to pushrod.....

yeah it does get expensive no matter what way you go. the 720 horse 572 cubic inch gm crate engine is something like 12 grand i think, and thats before you add a blower and all that stuff i dont know anything about lol... however the 260 horse 350 smallblock from gm is only 1300 from jegs with everything except the intake, distributor, and carb. or go with the 290 horse one, just a slight drop in torque, for i think it was 1600. not bad for an engine like that. for it's displacement, in stock form it gets pretty good mileage, a 350 can get maybe 13 - 15 tops in the city for mpg at granny speeds, while my 2.something liter honda gets 26 tops in the city, (both carbureted). 76 horsepower versus 260, with only doubled fuel usage... not bad for a crappy old school motor lol... however, when it comes to modding, i bet the inline fours can make more power per cubic inch, unless you take that smallblock and beef up the internals, and obviously use a 4 bolt main block lol. i dont want to start crap here lol it usually ends up like that tho... ill just say for the record that the only imports i dont like are the ones with the punk kid driving them that claims 500 whatever rwhp with nothing but a fart can and some chromed up intake tube lol. makes the non-poser peeple look bad, and its kinda annoying when they pull up next to you and want to race all the time lol... i have a pickup goddamit leave me alone! lol...

You are very right, no matter which way you go massive HP is expensive, although I personaly think that the Supra would be one of the least expensive since the stock longblock, and drivetrain (maby with the exception of the clutch) are capable of 1000hp, there is not a musclecar on earth that can handle that. Some engines more expensive than others, but I dont think that the modern chevy AL block 5.7 is capable of 1000hp with any internals Like I said before even with sleaves I have not seen one reach anything over 800hp. The block would bust under the pressure. There are a prob a few iron blocks that might take it for a little while, but even they would not last long at that power, and they weigh in at over 500lbs dressed out! Oh but before anybody starts dissing on pushrods lets not forget that the 500hp viper engine, and the 505hp LS7 are pushrod engines.

, but I dont think that the modern chevy AL block 5.7 is capable of 1000hp with any internals Like I said before even with sleaves I have not seen one reach anything over 800hp.
I don't want to be pushed into defending SB Chevys as I don't own one. My personal vehicle is a Lotus Esprit with a modified turbo 2.2L engine. Experience has proven to me that the harder your mindset is, and the more noise you make -- the harder you'll fall.
So, right here in front of me, is a short article with pictures, in the Jan. 2006 "Chevy High Performance" magazine (P.32):a 400 CI smallblock , twin turbo, 1,200 HP, and 20 MPG. Go buy the magazine and read for yourself. Probably could find some more articles like this laying around, but this is the first mag I picked up, and I'm too lazy.
Even 'tho I own cars other than Chevies, I like to read about other cars to see what's going on. I suggest you do the same to retain some perspective.
Like the text says in this article --"you've been had--big time".

My personal vehicle is a Lotus Esprit with a modified turbo 2.2L engine.


Oh the memories........ Howlllllllllll, woosh, warble, hooowwlllll, woosh, warble, hoooowwwwllllllll, woosh warble, howwwwwwwwwl woooosh warble, hooooowwwwllllllllllll wooosh........... oh shit its only a 5sp........ 250+kph showing on the speedo :D




kachok25 have you seen a 1,000hp Supra or Skyline actualy driven on the street?
Its not pretty and very difficult to do. 5-600hp is about the limit for a street driven Supra or Skyline, and thats only possible with a boost controller that lets you run more conservative power levels to make the car driveable.
At a 1,000hp the engine has no useable power down low, and a very sharp steep power curve once the turbo comes on boost. Its either on, or off. There is no in between, and when combined with the sort of clutch needed to hold that level of power you get a car that will either sit still, or acclerate at speed far to dangerous for street use.

Just because a car retains enough things like lights and indicators to be "street legal" dosn't mean it can still be street driven.


you can get a 1,000hp out of a chevy small block useing some basic tools in your garage, it requires some sepcialist knowledge, but nearly as much as getting 1,000hp out of a Supra engine does, which requires a lot of custom part building and engine tuning.

I don't want to be pushed into defending SB Chevys as I don't own one. My personal vehicle is a Lotus Esprit with a modified turbo 2.2L engine. Experience has proven to me that the harder your mindset is, and the more noise you make -- the harder you'll fall.
So, right here in front of me, is a short article with pictures, in the Jan. 2006 "Chevy High Performance" magazine (P.32):a 400 CI smallblock , twin turbo, 1,200 HP, and 20 MPG. Go buy the magazine and read for yourself. Probably could find some more articles like this laying around, but this is the first mag I picked up, and I'm too lazy.
Even 'tho I own cars other than Chevies, I like to read about other cars to see what's going on. I suggest you do the same to retain some perspective.
Like the text says in this article --"you've been had--big time".


Is this an old iron block, Or the new alumanum block? I did not say that the iron block could not do it, and for your information I am not trying to make aot of noise, I don't know where you are getting that from but you need to ignore it.

Oh the memories........ Howlllllllllll, woosh, warble, hooowwlllll, woosh, warble, hoooowwwwllllllll, woosh warble, howwwwwwwwwl woooosh warble, hooooowwwwllllllllllll wooosh........... oh shit its only a 5sp........ 250+kph showing on the speedo :D




kachok25 have you seen a 1,000hp Supra or Skyline actualy driven on the street?
Its not pretty and very difficult to do. 5-600hp is about the limit for a street driven Supra or Skyline, and thats only possible with a boost controller that lets you run more conservative power levels to make the car driveable.
At a 1,000hp the engine has no useable power down low, and a very sharp steep power curve once the turbo comes on boost. Its either on, or off. There is no in between, and when combined with the sort of clutch needed to hold that level of power you get a car that will either sit still, or acclerate at speed far to dangerous for street use.

Just because a car retains enough things like lights and indicators to be "street legal" dosn't mean it can still be street driven.


you can get a 1,000hp out of a chevy small block useing some basic tools in your garage, it requires some sepcialist knowledge, but nearly as much as getting 1,000hp out of a Supra engine does, which requires a lot of custom part building and engine tuning.

There are not many mk4 supras around here but I do know for a fact that the 8.5 second supra that I was talking about is driven on the street, the owner was commenting on the looks that police officers give him driving a car with drag chutes on the back. The power curve of an engine depends on alot of factors, to assume that nobody could make a drivable 1000hp 3.0L engine is very narrowminded in my oppinion. I have seen engines use a combanation of a positive displacement supercharger and a turbo. The supercharger all but elimanates the turbolag, and the higher thermal effencency of the turbo keeps the intake temps down at high rpm. Plus now there are variable geometry turbos, that spool faster, and provide equal top end boost as similar conventional turbos. Hence flatter power curve. You are assuming that we are using twenty year old technology here, there is a new wave of advanced boost control, and ALS out there that you should research. And I have seen a supra running over 1000hp with the stock internals which means it is most likely running the stock CR, which means that it still has simmilar low end torque to the production model even without boost, and I have never heard anybody complain about the supra not having drivable torque. :iceslolan
I can get a complete T88h turbokit with 900+hp flow rating for only $3,500!http://workspower.net/sut8tukit.html add $2500 gofast goodies an ECU upgrade, larger injectors, boost control, and a high cap intercooler, and we are looking at 6000 dollars (yea I priced the parts) to build a 600-700hp monster. :evillol: I would like to see someone try to make an LS1 700 hp on that kind of budget (not counting NOS). The supras internals have been proven solid beyond 1000hp so it's inharent advantage is that you do not need a shop to pull your motor and rebuild the block from the ground up, saving you alot of money.
Oh and what basic tools could you use to raise a modern smallblock too 1000hp??? That would require extensive internal work plus expensive bolt ons. A vortech supercharger alone that can handle that is $2800 the forged pistions and rods would run you around $1200, now labor for a rebuild like that is going to be around $2000, now you have already spent the Supras budget and you still have not bored and sleaved your block, upgraded your fuel injectors, installed a stronger crank, tweaked your ECU, bought (or modified) your high flow heads, instaled any kind of boost management, of ducting for your supercharger, installed any kind of intercooler or aftercooler (which is nessasary for the kind of boost you need) or upgraded your insuficient exaust system. :mad:
Even if you went the cheap and inpractical route and bolted a large roots supercharger on a carburated iron block and gave it a wet shot of NOS you would still be looking at a little more money and much less practicality. I don't mean to be insulting but for goodness sake how could you even hope to compare these two engines?? I think the LS1 is great for 400-500hp applacations but it just needs too much work to reach the 2jz-GTE power potental.
Even if you could make your 350ci camaro 700hp on the same budget(which I highly doubt) consider the drivetrain, you would litteraly have to replace it completly! While the Supra can survive 700hp easly with nothing more than a new high proformance clutch.
Sorry but when it comes to these cars the Supra has you beat hands down, go pick on the civics or somthing thats my :2cents:

You really know nothing about engines do you?
You've clearly never built a race engine, and I doubt you have done anything more than a basic oil change and tune up, maybe changed some spark plugs gapped a set of points, if you know what they are.


The 8sec Supra might have been driven on the street, but I doubt it was making a 1,000hp at the time.
As you said boost control has come along way, and its very easy have several fuel/ignition maps stored in an aftermarket ECU to match differnt boost levels.
All of which can quite radicaly alter how an engine behaves.


And you don't honestly think you can bolt on a few thousand dollars worth of parts to a 2jz and be making a 900hp? Your kit only includes the Turbo, manifolds and wastegate.
You would have to spend that much again on fuel lines, injectors, fuel pumps, and ignition parts
Then to get even close to 900hp would would need to spend that much again prepping flowing the head, and getting cams ground, new pistons, all new enigne management, raidator, oil cooler etc etc
Then several weeks work to install all the parts, and unless you have a very advanced dyno in your garage and the knowledge and experiance to tune a 900hp engine, you could spend thousands more getting it tuned and running properly.
Even useing the stock block and rods you would still be spending an easy $15,000 on parts alone.


Im not belittling the 2jz, or the RB26, or VQ30 or 4g63, or any of the other unbelivably strong small capacity Japanese engines. A 1,000hp from 2-3litres is very impressive.
But its at the absolute limits of what these engines are capable of, and requires a huge level of investment in both time and parts as well as the knowledge and skill to put it all together.



A small block chev with twice the capacity and an extra 30 years of development history behind it simply gives it advantages in terms of the ablity to make power none of the Japanese engines can match.
People have been making 1,000hp small blocks since before the people who designed the 2jz knew what an engine was.

have you seen a 1,000hp Supra or Skyline actualy driven on the street?


Heres your daily driven street trim 1500 whp Supra.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Toyota-Supra-Turbo-Marko-Djurics-White-Supra-1520-HP-8-SECOND-CAR_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6447QQitemZ45748243 99QQrdZ1

You really know nothing about engines do you?
You've clearly never built a race engine, and I doubt you have done anything more than a basic oil change and tune up, maybe changed some spark plugs gapped a set of points, if you know what they are.


The 8sec Supra might have been driven on the street, but I doubt it was making a 1,000hp at the time.
As you said boost control has come along way, and its very easy have several fuel/ignition maps stored in an aftermarket ECU to match differnt boost levels.
All of which can quite radicaly alter how an engine behaves.


And you don't honestly think you can bolt on a few thousand dollars worth of parts to a 2jz and be making a 900hp? Your kit only includes the Turbo, manifolds and wastegate.
You would have to spend that much again on fuel lines, injectors, fuel pumps, and ignition parts
Then to get even close to 900hp would would need to spend that much again prepping flowing the head, and getting cams ground, new pistons, all new enigne management, raidator, oil cooler etc etc
Then several weeks work to install all the parts, and unless you have a very advanced dyno in your garage and the knowledge and experiance to tune a 900hp engine, you could spend thousands more getting it tuned and running properly.
Even useing the stock block and rods you would still be spending an easy $15,000 on parts alone.


Im not belittling the 2jz, or the RB26, or VQ30 or 4g63, or any of the other unbelivably strong small capacity Japanese engines. A 1,000hp from 2-3litres is very impressive.
But its at the absolute limits of what these engines are capable of, and requires a huge level of investment in both time and parts as well as the knowledge and skill to put it all together.



A small block chev with twice the capacity and an extra 30 years of development history behind it simply gives it advantages in terms of the ablity to make power none of the Japanese engines can match.
People have been making 1,000hp small blocks since before the people who designed the 2jz knew what an engine was.

Ok I was trying to be polite but you have actualy pissed me off; first you DID NOT ACTUALY READ MY POST, because if you did you would see that I said that is what it would take to build a 600-700hp Supra. READ BEFORE YOU GO BLABINHG YOUR MOUTH!!! I do know quite a bit about engines I am a CERTIFIED MECHANIC!!! The supra need no aftermarket pistons the stock ones can hold 1000+hp! Yet again READ MY POST! I already factored new fuel injectors into my price. Yet again READ MY POST! I am sure that the Supras stock fuel pump can handle 600-700hp, even the 300zx can handle up to 750hp on the stock pump, but if you knew anything about imports you would already know that. :lol: Uh hello I did not mention anything about keeping it making 900hp for five hunderd miles streight? That is why I did not start talking about raidators or oil coolers, because that is a whole post in itself. WEEKS TO INSTAL?!?! what kind of crack are you smoking??? All the parts I listed are basic boltons nothing that even cracks the block! All of that might take a day or day and a half, and it can be tuned with a laptop computer and if you wanted every possable ounce of hp maby a dyno. A SB chevy has twice the hp capasity as a 2jz-GTE, REALLY??? Then WTF is an 8 second supra the fastest car on the street? For crying out loud the supra does not even have a solid rear end which means that it cannot get any more than 25% anti-squat. A camaro with a quadralink can have about 125% andisquat, and with twice the HP it would be into the low 7s, why do none of those exist??? Because you are full of it, thats why! :grinno: BTW you were right about one thing the 8 second supra was not making 1000hp at the time it was driven on the streets it is making over 1300hp! :evillol: Last I checked it was STILL driving on the streets. Show me a street drivable 2600+hp chevy SB I dare you, maby if you filled the water jackets and put 10k into custom fabracations, but that would be far from a street engine, and I still doubt it. How do you figure 15k in parts??? You did not reserch any parts you just got that number off the movie the fast and the furious. LOL Not the best source of information :lol: You still have not told me how you are going to build a 700hp for less than the 2jz-GTE, whats the matter stumped? Don't worry I could not do it either. Oh and you still have not addresses the issue of having to completly striping your drivetrain. There is no way anything on your stock car can hold that kind of power, so now tell me how much would that cost??? Next time actualy READ what I wrote before you go running your mouth, and you won't look like such an A$$. If you want to argue import vs domestic go pick on the posers

Here you go, a turbo kit known to produce 1000hp and it costs $5,800! http://www.titanmotorsports.com/hkst5kaiturk.htmlTake that! Yea I already know what you are going to say next, "oh well that is 1000hp with dyno tweeking, and a larger intercooler." So what! The thing is capable of delivering enough air for 1000hp making 600-700 would not be a problem even without adding every single nicknack on a dragster. Yea you might have to add 2g in mods to make it run safe, but even without it I would take it over a roots blown caburated small block anyday! I am still looking for that COMPLETE T88 kit that I saw that gives 930+hp, I'll post it if it is still avalable.

Here you go, a turbo kit known to produce 1000hp and it costs $5,800! http://www.titanmotorsports.com/hkst5kaiturk.htmlTake that! Yea I already know what you are going to say next, "oh well that is 1000hp with dyno tweeking, and a larger intercooler." So what! The thing is capable of delivering enough air for 1000hp making 600-700 would not be a problem even without adding every single nicknack on a dragster. Yea you might have to add 2g in mods to make it run safe, but even without it I would take it over a roots blown caburated small block anyday! I am still looking for that COMPLETE T88 kit that I saw that gives 930+hp, I'll post it if it is still avalable.
Here is another one good for 700rwhp (thats well over 800hp at the flywheel) complete with the fuel and electronics upgrades for $5900!

Here is another one complete with computer upgrade, and new fuel system for $7300 this one clames 775hp!http://www.suprastore.com/800hpkitcom.html
Oh and here is a complete stage6 1050hp kit with new fuel system high proformance computer, and ignition for $10,400! http://www.suprastore.com/stag7upkit10.html
I think you see my point you are WAY OFF! You have no idea what you are talking about and there is my proof! Go F&$k with the posers if you want to mess with sombody. I have just shown you that you can make a 700+hp supra with bolt on parts for less than half of what you were talking about. BTW here is the 1000+flywheel hp STOCK BLOCK 2jz I was talking about http://www.suprastore.com/stag7upkit10.html
Now I am going to serch the web for a 1000hp kit for a chevy SB if I find somthing cheeper and more powerful than these, that is ment to be run on the street I WILL EAT CROW RIGHT HERE! You will not have to say a word! I'll be back.
Here is a 790rwhp corvette, but it has a rare twin turbo setup and I would not dare to guess how much it cost, trying to find out http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com/projectCar.php?car=26
No price on the HP turbo kit :mad: but I did find a 600hp kit for the LS1 for $24,000! :lol: http://www.lingenfelter.com/LingenfelterC5Corvette600HPTwinTurboPackage.htm
Sorry yall the only American Iron I can find to come close to the supras is massive supercharged big block chevys and hemis, and even those were in the 20k+ range. The simple fact is that the 2jz was just designed for very high boost, and high RPMs. To match it's power in the domestic dapartmant you would need an engine twice its weight, and more expensive. I am tired of hearing a bunch of cheep oppinions if you can show me a way to build a streetable LS1 that can match anything a stretable 2jz can do for less money my offer to eat crow still stands, and I would love to be proven wrong because the supply of 2jz is very limited and buying a supra is out of my range right now. I love the ls1s and I hope my next car has one but the fact of the matter is that it is not designed to compete with the likes of the 2jz or RB26dett, not quite a match on the strip and not nearly a match on the street where the compact lightweight motors really shine. Well all is not lost with the new LS7s coming out I am sure that there will finnaly be a lightweight American engine that can stomp any jap engine, at leased untill the Nissan 3.5L twin turbo V8 is avalabe in America, then we will have another fight on our hands LOL.

Exotic Performance Plus is about 5 miles down the road from me. I had them weld up an exhaust for my turbo contour. They did a good job, but they are definetely on the high side.

I'll be back.




Not if you keep behaving litle a spoilt little brat. I will happily give you a short holiday from AF. And if you don't settle down and learn to be a little more rational then I will make it permanent.


Now take a look at the details of the 1050hp and 775hp "kits" you supplied links to, they BOTH mentioned the Supras stock fuel system and ECU is not capable of running more than 500hp.
Thats not entirly true, there is a 2jz in a space framed Toyota Corona here running close to 600hp on the standard ECU with a little help from an aftermarket ignition and of course a custom built fuel system.
But its the absolute limit of what it can handle, and the owner is replacing it this year to get more power.

Then look at all the parts listed in the 775hp kit, and note where it says: "Final tuning MUST be done with a knowledgable tuner and using a dyno and the proper analytical equipment."
That is a $1,000 a day worth of tuning, you might need 2-3 days worth.
Then don't forget the intercooler, thats another $1,675.00.
All up you have just spent over $10,000 on parts and tuning and you only have 775hp, if you can find some 100 octane fuel. If not then your stuck with an easy 550hp.
And this is all assuming you can fit all the parts yourself, and custom build your own exhaust for nothing.



The 1050hp kit only contains "GReddy T88H, capable of flowing 1050hp at 33psi of boost! Upgrade to Stage III fuel system with 1000cc injectors. Upgrade to Titan Street/Race Intake Manifold. Upgrade to HKS 272 intake and HKS 272 exhaust cam shafts"

NO Engine management, NO intercooler, NO radiator, NO Exhaust manifold or down pipe, NO Ignition system, NO Exhaust pipe or high flow cat if you want it street legal.

All of which would cost another $5,000 very easily.

What did I say in my other post
Even useing the stock block and rods you would still be spending an easy $15,000 on parts alone




And if you really think you can take all those parts and fit and tune them in a day and half then while you might claim to have a mechanical qualifaction, you clearly lack a lot of practicle experiance.
Changing peoples oil and replacing thier spark plugs does not count as engine building experiance.




EDIT, I just found the 8.4sec Supra for sale on E-bay. Makes a very interesting car, to start with it has over $150,000 invested in it, and is deffinitly not useing the orginal engine block!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Marko-Djurics-White-Supra-1520-HP-8-SECOND-CAR_W0QQitemZ4574824399QQcategoryZ6447QQrdZ1QQcmdZ ViewItem

Here is a 790rwhp corvette, but it has a rare twin turbo setup and I would not dare to guess how much it cost, trying to find out http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com/projectCar.php?car=26



Heres the link to where the HP Turbo kit on that car came from: http://turbochargedpower.com/

Theres even an 8sec street legal mustang running on pump gas with only 15psi.


And a
1,000+hp Twin Turbo kit for a new Mustang Cobra selling for $7395.00

Thats not bad, its certianly cheaper than your Supra kit :)

Listen here I am not trying to get rude or out of hand like yourself so lets keep this a decent debate. Did you read the edit that I did on my last post? Prob not, but you should. Anyway If you look at those kits some of them already include an afermarket fuel pump, and ECU. BTW you can raise the flow of the stock pump by raising the voltage, but I am sure you already know that, just declined to say because it would not help your case. Anyway I am talking about peak power potnetial here so 100 octaine gas is not a prob, you can just mix 30%toluine and get 98.6 I think. So basicly I completly fail to see your point, you are still spending more money to make less power, and nobody here has shown me ANYTHING to prove otherwise. If someone here can show me a complete forced induction kit that will raise a LS1 to over 800hp on 100 octaine for less than 8k I WILL EAT CROW! I would LOVE to see it!

Heres the link to where the HP Turbo kit on that car came from: http://turbochargedpower.com/

Theres even an 8sec street legal mustang running on pump gas with only 15psi.


And a
1,000+hp Twin Turbo kit for a new Mustang Cobra selling for $7395.00

Thats not bad, its certianly cheaper than your Supra kit :)


I was not asking about the mustang cobra because the 4.6 iron block engine is much heavier than the featherweight LS1, besides that kit includes no pistons, or rods, and I know the cobra is no slouch but I don't think that its internals can handle 1000hp, so you have more parts to buy and more work to do. Was that tested on the stock heads or do you know? Uh BTW I think I had two supra kits listed for cheaper than that. :sunglasse

If someone here can show me a complete forced induction kit that will raise a LS1 to over 800hp on 100 octaine for less than 8k I WILL EAT CROW! I would LOVE to see it!



I doubt you could do, just like I know you can't do it with a 2jz, so whats the point?



And mixing toluline(paint thinner) with petrol has been proven quite effictivly here in NZ to not work as well in practice as it does in theory.
When we went to unleaded petrol the oil companies did exactly that mixed 30% toluline with lower octane fuel and got an average 98point octane rating.
Only in a real car engine it dosn't behave like 98 point octane fuel and lots of car owners had lots of proplems with pre-ignition not to mention what it does to rubber gaskets.
Now if it causes problems in a very untuned average road car engine, imagine what it would to do a 1,000hp engine running on 35+lbs of boost?





Just a quick question, have you ever compared the weight of an LS1 with a 2jz? I think you will find that there is not a lot of weight differnce, infact the 2jz is probably heavier, its certianly physicaly bigger.

I doubt you could do, just like I know you can't do it with a 2jz, so whats the point?



And mixing toluline(paint thinner) with petrol has been proven quite effictivly here in NZ to not work as well in practice as it does in theory.
When we went to unleaded petrol the oil companies did exactly that mixed 30% toluline with lower octane fuel and got an average 98point octane rating.
Only in a real car engine it dosn't behave like 98 point octane fuel and lots of car owners had lots of proplems with pre-ignition not to mention what it does to rubber gaskets.
Now if it causes problems in a very untuned average road car engine, imagine what it would to do a 1,000hp engine running on 35+lbs of boost?





Just a quick question, have you ever compared the weight of an LS1 with a 2jz? I think you will find that there is not a lot of weight differnce, infact the 2jz is probably heavier, its certianly physicaly bigger.
Yes I know the LS1 is lighter (about 225lbs) that is why I love it so much. I think it is somthing like 70lbs lighter than the 2jz, but an oldschool iron small block weighs in around 550lbs, almost as much a those two put togeather. Like I said I would love to be proven wrong because I love the weight and avalability of the LS1s, please don't get the idea that I don't lke them nothing could be further from the truth.

Listen here I am not trying to get rude or out of hand like yourself so lets keep this a decent debate. Did you read the edit that I did on my last post? Prob not, but you should. Anyway If you look at those kits some of them already include an afermarket fuel pump, and ECU.


No, only one of the kits includes a fuel pump and ECU, and its only for 775hp, and would still cost you more than $10,000 in parts and tuning.
Or did you not read my posts?
The 1050hp kit needs at least another $5,000 worth of parts to work.


As for you edit, no I didn't read it.
If you make an edit you consider important then it pays to label it with a bold EDIT tag.


Now the Impala SS runs an LT1? Or something similar, basicly a small block chev (which the LS1 is)
On the turbo performance website http://turbochargedpower.com/ is a kit they claim can make around 700rwhp, thats around 900 at the crank, and it only costs $5,995.00 and includes everything from fuel pumps to the intercooler.
A "stage III" kit capable of over 1,000rwhp (at least 1,200 crank hp) is only $7,495.00.
Complete small block engines with forged rods, cranks and low comp pistons can be had from a variety of places for less than $2,000.
So for less than $10,000 its quite possible to get all the parts you need to have well over 1,2000hp from a chevy small block.

Thats cheaper than your 1050hp Supra kit: http://www.suprastore.com/stag7upkit10.html and INCLUDES MORE PARTS.


This is useing your logic of course, that all the parts needed can just be bought off the shelf in a simple kit and bolted to an engine.
If you have ever actualy built your own engine, and more than doubled its orginal hp you will know that its never that simple.

, please don't get the idea that I don't lke them nothing could be further from the truth.



I don't doubt you like them, Iv read some of your other posts in other forums.

But you need to stop thinking that the 2jz, RB26 etc are some how "god" like creations that a simple off the shelf kit can make into 1,000+hp monster.
They are not, they are just another very simple engine, like every other engine ever made they have thier strong points and thier weak points.
And no matter how good a mechanic you are, and no matter what resources you have it will still costs tens of thousands of dollars if you want to make a 1,000hp from them. And it will take tens of thousands more if you want to put them in a car and run sub 10sec passes at a strip.

No, only one of the kits includes a fuel pump and ECU, and its only for 775hp, and would still cost you more than $10,000 in parts and tuning.
Or did you not read my posts?
The 1050hp kit needs at least another $5,000 worth of parts to work.


As for you edit, no I didn't read it.
If you make an edit you consider important then it pays to label it with a bold EDIT tag.


Now the Impala SS runs an LT1? Or something similar, basicly a small block chev (which the LS1 is)
On the turbo performance website http://turbochargedpower.com/ is a kit they claim can make around 700rwhp, thats around 900 at the crank, and it only costs $5,995.00 and includes everything from fuel pumps to the intercooler.
A "stage III" kit capable of over 1,000rwhp (at least 1,200 crank hp) is only $7,495.00.
Complete small block engines with forged rods, cranks and low comp pistons can be had from a variety of places for less than $2,000.
So for less than $10,000 its quite possible to get all the parts you need to have well over 1,2000hp from a chevy small block.

Thats cheaper than your 1050hp Supra kit: http://www.suprastore.com/stag7upkit10.html and INCLUDES MORE PARTS.


This is useing your logic of course, that all the parts needed can just be bought off the shelf in a simple kit and bolted to an engine.
If you have ever actualy built your own engine, and more than doubled its orginal hp you will know that its never that simple.

I think that the Impala uses an iron block, which makes all the difference in the world when it comes to weight, and it is a very far reaching assumption that it would take 10,000 in parts and tuning! That is outragous! I know you would practicaly need a few thousand in gofast goodies to keep the boost safe, but 10k never you need to price your parts again and this time hit the + button insted of the X button when adding it up. To get all the gofast accessories you need to keep 700hp safe all you need is 3k maby 4k if you want to go with the crem dela crem namebrands another grand for fine tuning on the dyno, and you are hauling a$$. Oh and that 8 second supra on e-bay was not the one that I saw unless he completly changed the bodykit and had it repainted. Oh and I have always heard that toluine was the best octaine booster around, I have never heard a complaint about it where are you getting your info from???? Besides you still have not addressed the additional cost of completly rebuilding your drivetraine. That is another chunk of cash right there. I think when it is all said and done you will see that the supra is cheeper to build, Buying on the other hand LOL you could have bought a brand new z28 today(if they were still selling them) for what a 10 year old supra rz costs LOL I will not argue that point with you.

way too many words for me to care.....

I don't doubt you like them, Iv read some of your other posts in other forums.

But you need to stop thinking that the 2jz, RB26 etc are some how "god" like creations that a simple off the shelf kit can make into 1,000+hp monster.
They are not, they are just another very simple engine, like every other engine ever made they have thier strong points and thier weak points.
And no matter how good a mechanic you are, and no matter what resources you have it will still costs tens of thousands of dollars if you want to make a 1,000hp from them. And it will take tens of thousands more if you want to put them in a car and run sub 10sec passes at a strip.

I never said that the 2jz-GTE or the RB26dett was godlike. I personaly don't like the extreamly high boost approach. I think that the japs put too much focus on how much boost it can take and not enough on its displacement or weight, the higher boost numbers you are dealing with the more problems you face and I don't care how well designed your engine is. That is not to say that I do not like engines with overbuilt internals I LOVE that. :evillol: I would like to see an LS1 with a hot cam that could take 20psi on pump gas. That would shut everbody up quick like. If you notice at the point I enterd this thread I mentiond how much I like the LS1s and how they were just as much a peice of automotive artwork as the 2jz has ever been, so don't get me wrong I am not bashing anybody here (except posers maby) I have just always been under the impression that I could extract more power out a lighter powerplant with the 2jz and to some extent I guess it depends on how creative you are and how much of the work you can do yourself. For example a well trained mechanic can rebuild a chevy small block himself and save almost two grand. And I guess it also depends on how you like your power, a large roots blower keeps constant boost through the whole RPM band while a turbo give higher peak power.

I think that the Impala uses an iron block, which makes all the difference in the world when it comes to weight, and it is a very far reaching as....................... on the other hand LOL you could have bought a brand new z28 today(if they were still selling them) for what a 10 year old supra rz costs LOL I will not argue that point with you.




Your still not getting the point.
And your showing a complete lack of consistancy in your arguments.
One minute your claiming you can build a 1,000hp supra engine for less than $10,000, then your are offering evidence that you can only get some of the parts needed to make 775hp for that much, and that it make it a safe reliable engine you need to spend considerably more.
Then you some how come to the conclusion that 100kgs is a really big deal when you playing with over 1,000hp.
And don't forget nearly all of the parts in the 1,000+hp small block turbo kits will fit an LT1 or an LS1, or any other small block chev.
Internals for all the small blocks are then very cheap, certianly cheaper than equivilant parts for a 2jz.


A 1,000hp from a small 3litre enigne is impressive, but it will cost you a lot more $10,000, you yourself have proven that.
A 1,000hp from a bigger 5.7Litre engine is still just as impressive, will still make one hell of a fast car, but is not nearly as expensive to achieve and since the larger capcity engine can make the same hp with less boost, and has access to a huge variety of aftermarket parts will probobly be stronger and more reliable, as well as being easier to drive on the street becuase at the end of the day it needs a milder cam grind and less boost.

No I am not trying to say that I can saftly get 1000hp for less than 10k but what i am saying it that I can get 700-800hp cheaper with a 2jz as opposed to an america AL block V8 does that somewhat clearafy what I am talking about. If you are opposed to this idea give me a theortical buildup of an ls1 that I could preform for cheeper.

banks offers a twinturbo kit for smallblock chevy's, i don't know how much they cost but they sell them for 800, 1200, and 1600hp. i don't know what octane they're running either. they have test results on a 366ci engine here: http://www.bankspower.com/twin-turbo-performance.cfm it shows the engine at over 1000hp on 100 octane and ~20psi

banks offers a twinturbo kit for smallblock chevy's, i don't know how much they cost but they sell them for 800, 1200, and 1600hp. i don't know what octane they're running either. they have test results on a 366ci engine here: http://www.bankspower.com/twin-turbo-performance.cfm it shows the engine at over 1000hp on 100 octane and ~20psi

That is a great setup and all but those are custom high nickel alloy DART engine blocks, it I could do that with an LS1 it would be like a dream come true, I'll try to contact the compay and see how much boost they recomend for the stock AL block thanks for the imput.

OK yall I might have somthing here http://turbotechnologyinc.com/ls1.htm these people say that I can make 600rwhp (a little over 700h at the flywheel) on Ls1 with forged internals with the t76 turbo. The kit is about $5,800 which is not a bad place to start I figure a full rebuild with all forged internals will run me around $3000. Now I just have to worry about boost control, new fuel system, ignition, cooling, ECU, and professional tuning.They have a 900hp racing kit too but they do not list the price. I like the idea of a 5.7L turbocharged engine and all, but I don't think this is going to be any cheaper then the supra infact considering that I am looking for more specalized parts it might run me a good bit more, another downside of the American engine, and mind you this is not chevys fault is the lack of race proven experence with forced induction, in Japan virtualy all their race cars are using turbocharged engines, 4 bangers LIMITED to 500hp racing long distences with race proven reliability sounds too good to be true! Unfortunetly here in America the vast majority of long distance races are for NA engines only otherwise I do beleve that we would be seeing alot of 1500hp LS1s, If HKS put out one tenth the R&D into the domestics as the RB26 and 2jz I have no doubt who would be faster and easier/cheaper to tune, but as it stands right now there is a vast wealth of great race proven parts and information for the hot imports, while a turbocharged V8 still puts you into the pioneer catagory.
BTW here is a guy who built a 300zx with 630hp with nothing but bolt on parts NO PROFESSSIONAL TUNING AND STOCK INTERNALS! http://cyprusracingcars.com/news/24_11_2004.htm Yea I know it sounds kinna strange but like I said there is a wealth of good info on these engines and you don't always NEED a pro to tweek it for you. With his little 60 shot of NOS he would be pushing 690hp! Now if he can do that with a 1.3 bar boost 300zx what could someone do with a 2 bar boost supra? (yes the internals will hold up to it) Just thought you should know.

OK yall I might have somthing here http://turbotechnologyinc.com/ls1.htm these people say that I can make 600rwhp (a little over 700h at the flywheel) on Ls1 with forged internals with the t76 turbo. The kit is about $5,800 which is not a bad place to start I figure a full rebuild with all forged internals will run me around $3000. Now I just have to worry about boost control, new fuel system, ignition, cooling, ECU, and professional tuning.They have a 900hp racing kit too but they do not list the price. .
You gonna put that or a Toyota engine in your Explorer?
Show us how its done.

You gonna put that or a Toyota engine in your Explorer?
Show us how its done.

Hell no I only have that 4x4 exploror for pulling my fishing boat, and the occasional mud toy. Now I want to build my proformance car, it would be a waste of time and money to drop a highly tuned ls1 or a 2jz into that rickidy thing, it cannot handle 70mph without making me nervous LOL. I would be the laughing stock of the internet for the rest of my short stupid life! No I had a Toyota and I loved it, but some 18 year old kid playing fast and the furious ran a stop sighn in front of me on the highway! 55mph collision never had a chance to hit my brakes! The car looked like it had reduced to half its original length, and I walked out with a scratch on my left pinky! The motor was still running LOL. THAT was a well built car. Unfortunetly the 18 year old kid did not make it out so well last I ever saw him he was being driven to the hospitle.

wow...i'd like to know what this is all about, but there are way to many words in every post.....

wow...i'd like to know what this is all about, but there are way to many words in every post.....
Big technical debate about which would be easier/cheeper to tune the displacement of an LS1 or the near indestructable design of a 2jz-GTE and which would be a better street engine. That is what it all boils down to.

uhh... well, i think ill just throw a very mild stock 350 (260 horse, 350lb/ft.) in my truck project for now and maybe build it up to about 400 horses after a while, just add a cam and sum better heads, and i guess its good enuf for a pickup lmao. plus the whole engine is brand new from gm for only 1300 bucks, and its got 4 bolt mains in it, although i prolly wont even need it for 400 horses, but still it sounds better when you can say its a 4 bolt lol. basically i have come to the conclusion that i really dont have the money, being im in only 17 and only make 6 grand a year at mickey dees to get thru high school... definately can afford much of anything right now lmao

uhh... well, i think ill just throw a very mild stock 350 (260 horse, 350lb/ft.) in my truck project for now lmao
Hah hah hah, what a bust!
Ain't the internet great?
(smart choice BTW, jviek)

Well I'd rather buy/drive/build a 1000whp supra than drive a 1000whp V8....

How's that?

Whether or not its put on paper as being true, there is a huge difference in feeling between a large displacement high HP car and a small displacement high HP car. I have driven a 420whp drag car that ran 10.8's at the time and I didn't like it.. It didn't feel very fast. Felt more like driving a rubber band powered car. It sprung you well off the line, but there wasn't the insane pull you get with a decently powered small displacement engine.

Big technical debate about which would be easier/cheeper to tune the displacement of an LS1 or the near indestructable design of a 2jz-GTE and which would be a better street engine. That is what it all boils down to.

Yea "technical"....but after you read it, you feel dumber....

It sprung you well off the line, but there wasn't the insane pull you get with a decently powered small displacement engine.


Iv been in an R32 GTR than ran a low 11, and felt exactly the same :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


Drag racing is a really dumb way to compare engines, its about the only time peak numbers have any real meaning, and things like lag and throttle responce don't.

It trapped 128 at the time...

What did the GTR trap or put to the wheels?