Auto vs manual

Well, i know the basic differences, many are saying the acceleration is much better in a manual rather then an automatic, and i know you usualy get better gas milage with a manual, but really.. what are the differences and why does everyone seem to not like automatics?
I have a 92 rs 305 lb1, and everytime somebody finds out its an automatic their opionon of "wow thats a nice car" seems to go downhill from there... im just wondering, is it really that bad? And why...
P.S: i love my car no matter what anyone says im just wondering...

Are you kidding, camaro owners are notorious for loving automatics, the 700R with the 350

No im not kidding... im lost

t5 tranny is a big piece of shit. And believe me you want the 700r4. Lasts long, handles hp well, no clutch. The only thing is that its usually more fun at first when you rip thru gears, but then you just get tired of it when in a heavy traffic. t56 6 speed is far better and having those 6 speeds is nice. I also have an old 320i bimmer and all i do is shifting it all time (gears are that low), because i cruise at 50mph in the 5 gear. Gotta say that not that many people actually can drive manual cars properly.

if someone knows how to drive a manual, they think that autos suck.

its really that simple.

I drive a manual, and an auto. and i would rather drive the auto.

If my car was going to see more track time, I would have swapped an auto in.

Autos are faster than manuals because of the perfect shifts and a better launch.

Well, my car is an automatic and I thought about a tranny swap from auto to manual, but I can't imagine my car with a manual transmission. I'd much rather drive it automatic. I find nothing wrong with it. I don't know many people that drive camaros with manuals.

to me it all depends on where you drive your car the most....i drive mine in traffic alot and race it alot so an auto is better for me...if you just cruise with your car and like playing then probably a manual...And most ppl go with the auto because its just easier....you dont have to worry about that damn clutch thats on manuals...and ya manuals can be just as fast shifting as an auto but you have to know how to drive it...and another good thing about manuals is that you can shift alot harder and burnout pretty easily

its mostly a personal preference.... i love my manual because it puts me in charge of the car and its just more fun + that 6th gear gets me my 30mpg on the expressway..... if you plan on doing strict drag racing an auto is a must... no one can shift as fast as a modified auto trans.... a manual trans has less power lost through the drivetrain but the auto makes up for its larger power loss through its faster shifts..... its generaly a steriotype that manuals are better... but in the end both are pretty much equal....

They both have pros and cons depending on what you're doing. I completely agree with cuda dude.

It's already been said... daily driver in traffic / drag racing auto is better... DD where theres not much traffic, weekend car hitting up the twisties, road racing etc. id take manual

Also, automatics have torque converters.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/torque-converter3.htm

When one is properly chosen to match your engine's powerband... you can really get going from a stop :naughty:

Ever see a dyno graph of a car witha torque converter? I remember seeing one a while ago and it was nuts.

But I know what you mean... I have a friend who I showed my car to shortly after I got it... He was like "Man this car is sweet!! I bet it's fast as hell!" then when he got it he said "What the hell? Automatics suck! Why did you waste your money on this?"

Once I pulled out onto the main road I floored it and he about shit himself.

He hasn't mentioned anything about automatics sucking since then :lol2:

The only reason I would choose a manual would be if I were road racing.

Even for auto-x many here prefer automatics... just kept in 2nd gear for the entire course(I'm sure this differs from other tracks).

In theory a manual should accelerate faseter do to the different gearing of the transmissions, but there are to many outside factors to say one is definately faster than the other.

flatlander...what stall are you running on your auto?

flatlander...what stall are you running on your auto?

A 196,000 mile stocker :smooch:

LOL.

My car feels great for as old as it is :grinyes: I think it's because he [was] mainly into imports.

I am glad I have cured at least one torque-deprived human being :)

I will be getting a stall soon... 3200 RPM, 2.8 STR

Sorry for the noob question, but what exactly are the reasons for a higher stall; off the line and on the road?

I will be getting a stall soon... 3200 RPM, 2.8 STR
Thats alot of STR espcially since ur sig says ur planing on doing 4.10's in the future, thats alot even for a 6 banger. Traction is not gonna be a ur friend.

Also dynos of cars with higher stalls shouldnt show an increase over the stock numbers, if anything the fact that it slips more will show a decrease same thing with gears although its not a huge change but they do lower ur numbers.

Yes a stall allows for higher RPM launch at the track, it helps get the car in its powerband faster.

What exactly is a stall? I know what a rev limiter is, is a stall just another name for that?

WHat we are talking about is a Torque converter with a higher stall rating hence why we call after market converters stalls. The stall speed is the RPM which the converter is advertised to hold while u hold the gas and break while u launch ur car. So like my stall is a 3300, in theory i should be able to hold the break pedal while pushing the gas till my rpms get to 3300 with out the tires spinning. The thing is that most stalls speeds are advertised to 400hp so if ur making less, then ur stall speed will be lower than advertised.

It is a lot of STR... I am buying it off my friend (current quickest confirmed V6 f-body... he never had a good run this past season but the season before his best was a [email protected]... that was with the verter im buying and 3.23s, on spray)
He upgraded to a 4200 stall with 4.10s this past season but kept having solonoid issues which prevented him from seeing mid-high 11s

It's a nitrous converter since that's what he runs... which is good, just means it's stronger (anti-balooning plate and stronger fins). 95.5-96% efficiency at 5800 RPM... and with this and the 3.23s he saw 33 mpg.

Knocked .7 off his N/A ET.

My drag radials will be my friends lol

Thats pretty damn fast, way faster than me lol... A stall only effects ur around town driving, once u hit about 45mph or u hit lock up then there is no more slipping.

yep... but i mean 4.10s up gas milage for around town/city stop and go traffic so eh

Didn't even think about it like that. That is bad ass gas mileage for 4.10's jeez im only getting 17-18 mpg on the highway.

Didn't even think about it like that. That is bad ass gas mileage for 4.10's jeez im only getting 17-18 mpg on the highway.

Remember... he has a V6 :licka:

Here is that dyno graph of how a stall converter helps multiply torque down low:
http://www.turbominivan.com/dynovan1.jpg
:evillol:

I got it from http://www.turbominivan.com/

Click on "Dyno Fun" to see that graph and more accompanying info. Here is an excerpt that falls in sync with our conversation:

Upon seeing this, the first question most people ask is how I make so much bottom end torque. Turns out torque converters do this really nifty thing called torque multiplication, which means your crankshaft torque is actually amplified in the low RPM range. It doesn't happen all the way to redline, of course, but it's a ton of fun while it lasts!

one point i haven't heard anyone mention... manuals are better from racing at a roll/ top end racing, because we have more gears, our engines are better kept in the power band, more power=faster

to make my point, a c5 z06 will beat a c6 coupe auto from a 45 or so roll, but you take it from a stop and the c6 will beat the c5 z06. got a video of it.

oh yea cuda said this already but lets reiterate, 6th gear gets amazing gas mileage...

I'm an LS1 guy, and the biggest reason to avoid m6 on an LS1 is the rear end. even on a bone stock car the T-56 can kill the stock 10-bolt rear, if you get DRs and bolt ons you're almsot guaranteed to kill the rear-end and it will cost about $2,000-$2,500 to upgreade to a 12-bolt or 9 inch.

Other than that, for some reason I found a lot more cheap A4s than M6s. Not sure if that's the norm, but it was definitely true for me. M6s can be great for roll races and highway mileage, but in horrible Miami traffic it's just a horrible pain. I'm happy with the A4.

I'm an LS1 guy, and the biggest reason to avoid m6 on an LS1 is the rear end. even on a bone stock car the T-56 can kill the stock 10-bolt rear, if you get DRs and bolt ons you're almsot guaranteed to kill the rear-end and it will cost about $2,000-$2,500 to upgreade to a 12-bolt or 9 inch.
an auto will kill a rear just as fast as a manual, it is a fact though that the rears are undersized for the cars power.... but on the flip side.. my rear has over 120k on it and its still spinnin like it was on mile 1.....

Remember... he has a V6 :licka:

Here is that dyno graph of how a stall converter helps multiply torque down low:
I was talking about Horse power...yea the torque converter multiplies the torque by the STR rating, thats why i was tellin KC that 2.8 STR is gonna over power his tires.

Techincally yes an M6 is harder on the tranny cause there is no preloading like there is in an auto.

Yes the M6 is a good roll racer cause u can choose ur gear and dont have to wait till the damn pcm decideds to shift, but an after market converter eliminates that factor depending on what ur shift extensions will be set at. It allows the engine to spin up into the powerband way faster and keeps the car there.

Roll racing is for Supra owners :lol:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/flatlander757/Misc/31450-651-23090.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/flatlander757/Misc/31450-651-23091.jpg

:lol2:

Roll racing is for Supra owners :lol:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/flatlander757/Misc/31450-651-23090.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/flatlander757/Misc/31450-651-23091.jpg

:lol2:
Agreed!! :grinno:

nice.....

HAHAHAHAHAHAH i want that shirt!!!!

thats another thing that bugs me, how the hell can supras make 1000+ hp on a straight 6 but yet the 3.8 v6 cant make that kind of power and still be street legal? did i some how miss something?

Stock forged internals, less rotating weight, I believe dual overhead cam, and they are MEANT to be turbo'd from the factory. This is why it is not an easy task to make a N/A Supra go fast short of getting a whole new block/rebuild.

Plus I believe that I6s handle boost more efficiently and effectively than V6s due to the design or some stuff.

But don't get hung up on the 1000hp claims... There's a joke that I think best explains the said reality:

What do a 600hp Supra, 800hp Supra, and 1000hp Supra have in common?


A: They all run mid 12s in the 1/4 mile! :lol:

Oh shit!!! That's a good one flatlander. That shirt is awesome!!!

Stock forged internals, less rotating weight, I believe dual overhead cam, and they are MEANT to be turbo'd from the factory. This is why it is not an easy task to make a N/A Supra go fast short of getting a whole new block/rebuild.

Plus I believe that I6s handle boost more efficiently and effectively than V6s due to the design or some stuff.

But don't get hung up on the 1000hp claims... There's a joke that I think best explains the said reality:

What do a 600hp Supra, 800hp Supra, and 1000hp Supra have in common?


A: They all run mid 12s in the 1/4 mile! :lol:
Nice :biggrin:

oh and also in term of getting into the right gear, two words. Custom Tuning.

In theory a manual should accelerate faseter do to the different gearing of the transmissions, but there are to many outside factors to say one is definately faster than the other.
Hehe, remember back in the day what happen when me and another member put the auto Vs manual thing to a test :lol2:.

Hehe, remember back in the day what happen when me and another member put the auto Vs manual thing to a test :lol2:.

No. :confused:

Please enlighten us. I don't feel like searching your 7 thousand posts :grinno:

Lets just say that someone questioned how a auto could ever beat a stick and I showed how via a 10 car length lead at 100MPH in Long Island.

LOL.



I just now realized there's a skeleton in your car in your sig. :lol2:

Lets just say that someone questioned how a auto could ever beat a stick and I showed how via a 10 car length lead at 100MPH in Long Island.

Talk about ownage right there.. Cant mess with John's Firebird.

who says u cant? you just break out the mustard, tp and saran rap....

Not like that.. I meant take him on car vs car.

oh well in that case... you get an old beater car/truck/ anything... and as soon as you launch you swerve at him and ..... well u get my drift im sure...

I guess Fords have a purpose.. but no matter how jealous you are of John, you just shouldnt hurt a fellow Fbody owner.. thats against the code.

I'm not saying i'd do it... this is advice for you rally... it's the only way you are gonna ever win...

Hey, I am not the almighty lord of horsepower around here. Just saying that the 4L60-E is usually under estimated and I see way too many threads in a ton of f-body forums about whats involved in the Manual swap when the fact is you may be slower once you complete the swap. However , fun facter completely goes to the 6 speed and for a experienced racer. A race with cars of equal gear ratios could go either way.

I'm not saying i'd do it... this is advice for you rally... it's the only way you are gonna ever win...

I see what I must do now..

(Talk about walking to the dark side.. :evillol: )

Just saying that the 4L60-E is usually under estimated
Hey John ur not running the stock 4L60E are u? I wouldnt think it would hold up in ur car to well atleast not in stock or stockish form. Shit it didnt even hold up in my car.

I have a transgo with a holeshot 2600 stall in there currently and a aftermarket tranny cooler. Mine holds up just fine. The 4l60-E can actually take more power than the T56 can. Maybe you just got a lame tranny, which happens. Cause I know of plenty of other guys running 600 and 700 horsepower with slightly modified 4l60-e's

Did u go with full manual or just firm up ur shifts with the transgo? I kinda want to go full manual.

There is no full manual with the 4L60-E, I know it says that in the add but if you contact them. They will tell you its not doable. Besides you will get much faster shifts with a computer shifting than you would with you choosing the shift points. Not to mention your PCM when programmed is choosing the best locations to shift to leave you within your power band.

Actually there is a way to get full manual out of it, ive had a friend modify his B&M shift kit and get full manual out of it. The guy from probuilt sales the Transgo, modified a little of course, which gives u full manual. Ill try and get u the website.

Well even though thats a pretty cool option to have. I would still prefer having the PCM shifting for me. I have raced enough manuals to know its doing a pretty damn good job.

Oh no dought with tunning depending on ur mods u cant beat a computer to shift but its still kinda cool. Heres that website :http://www.700r4l60e.com/
It still retains full automatic functions in D and OD but if u drop down to 1st then u can control 1-2-3 gears which is kinda cool.

You can actually do that on a stock 4l60-e but I guess they probably have a downshift lock out but most programmers can do that for you as well.

Sure you cant downshift?