Down The Rabbit Hole

For a long time I used to get HPP on and off again in the mail, untill it started to get stold, I would then buy the mag at the local Wal Mart, howver this last year I bought a year of it.

It happened so slowly that I had to get my old issues to find the place of the cancer that ate the mag, tho I could never find the one issue that it happened to I was able to find one issue that started with arguements about a 90's F body SBC 383 build up, tho I never got that one the people writeing into the mag were very upset, and for each person not wanting a Chevy in the mag they listed a pro Chevy telling them how great it was.

I started to notice that less and less was being added to the hi-po parts of the mag, I guess looking back even the factory intake tests they had were boring at the time but now I looked for at least something that had to do with a Pontiac engine.

The argue from the people who write in that have bastard Pontiacs powered by chevys is that they drive a shell of a Pontiac and they buy HPP, but it did not have any Chevy crap in it, so they kept up writing in to get them to change, and they did.

The last 2 issues were bombs for Pontiac people, while you could get a part 1 and 2 about putting a turbo in a F body chevy car true Pontiacs people got a Th400 kick down switch and a clutch mod, and both of these things could be done to any Chevy so fashiond.

I can't see why anybody would that had a Chevy engine write into a Pontiac mag untill I thought of a what if I was "In your shoes", I found that I may look stupid buying a chevy mag with Fire Bird on my car, so I think that people are in love with the history and power, but can't/don't/not willing to do a real Pontiac, so they bend the rules just like GM did when they made bastards out of every Chevy Powered Pontiac they made, and in fact the loss of the last real Pontiac only mag is because of GM selling lies like th current Chevy baised GTO import.

As I watch my beloved mag go to the dark side and down, down, down the rabbit hole I see GM in danger of never showing up to the tea party ever again.

Should this happen? No, I hate what GM did to Pontiac but I don't want them to go under, as much as I hate the rape of my loved GTO I can't see a "Off With GM's Head" for GM.

Just Like the cheshire cat putting out hints to Alice to the right road Toyota has been putting out cars that make ours look like rattle traps.

What do you think?

I did not renew HPP!

Are the new G6 and Solstice rattle traps?

The new Pontiac Solstice just won Automobile Magazine's 2006 Design of the Year award.

"No need to beat around the bush: the best attribute of the Pontiac Solstice is its brilliant Franz von Holzhausen styling. Even if its appealing appearance were all the Solstice had going for it, the car still would have been a strong contender for this award, because it possesses all the visceral appeal that made the original 2002 concept so desirable. It's cool, it's smooth, it's exciting, and, thanks to some clever engineering under its skin, it's a good drive, too."

- Automobile Magazine

http://automobilemag.com/news/0601_pontiac_solstice_01_900.jpg

My view on the G6 is "it's a car thats not fast not slow has a moon roof thats a warranty time bomb, could have been alot better".

Taking this car out on the street or track is like haveing a Stevens over under 14guage to FT. Leonard Wood's AT4 range.

(It would'nt take the paint off the M60 battle Tank down range)

If your going to film any street raceing, filmming from this car is better then standing on the curb!

I think that GM is putting out mass "ok" cars and the import people are putting out mass great cars, sure a few engines in the 6 banger GM class are good, but would you pit a Vtec to a 3800?

So how are the Pontiac Solstice, Corvette C6, Corvette C6 Z06, and the Holden Monaro "ok" cars? Have you driven them?

So how are the Pontiac Solstice, Corvette C6, Corvette C6 Z06, and the Holden Monaro "ok" cars? Have you driven them?

Well, I have driven a few vettes, one twin turbo vette, it was a dog off the line, however if Bob ever updated his turbos and waste gates to the stuff they have now i will never know, but it took off around 50 to pre-warp speeds.

I do refuse to drive the fake GTO, i'm better then that, Please don't lay any of this "how can you judge the car crap" as I never said this car was not a amazing car, it's just a Lie.
I don't even buy American Flags made outside the US, or shop at Target.

Again, have you driven the new C6 Corvette, C6 Z06, and the new Pontiac Solstice?

Again, have you driven the new C6 Corvette, C6 Z06, and the new Pontiac Solstice?

I have not driven the Solstice and don't plan to even test drive the Chevy powered one, also, I have driven faster vettes then the C6 or Z06.

Just because GM comes out with a few well built cars it can't catch imports that do it all the time...

I do refuse to drive the fake GTO, i'm better then that, Please don't lay any of this "how can you judge the car if you don't drive it crap" as I never said this car was not a amazing or well built by the Aussis car, it's just a Lie or a car.

Have you driven a Corvette that has a top speed of 198 hp AND can do a lap at the Nurburgring in 7:43? (Lamborghini Murcielago is slower by a few seconds)

Jan Magnussen drove a new Corvette Z06 at the Nurburgring in 7:43 (faster than a . He was one of the drivers of the Corvette C6-R that won its class (GT1) at the 2005 24 Hours of Le Mans and the 2005 Petit Le Mans. Petit Le Mans is a 10 hour/1,000 mile race at Road Atlanta.

http://www.nuerburgring.de/

http://www.theraceforum.com/images/forum/2930-41-1.jpg

http://www.theraceforum.com/images/forum/2930-41-2.jpg

I don't have Bobs ETs or anything like that he was part owner in a now failed (changed hands) pro shop, the car is stupid quick, i'm not big on shaveing the cones but the car was stupid quick after 50mph I got to drive it one time and he was bitching for me to pust it more, when we changed drivers he stomped the snot out of it and took about 5 hours off my life in 6 mins comming back I79 in PA.

It had a power curve that I traced back in my mind to sliping on ice, you start to loose balance fight to stay upright and get a lage dose of adrenalen. As soon as the boot came, it hit like a slamming door.

The car was so quick in the upper RPM that it didnt fit into the street race, and it didnt have any aftermarket brakes and such, so road race is kinda out of the question.

I would even say that drag raceing this thing at the track is silly because he has to get around 45 to haveanything happen, the turbos at so big they need to spool up that much.

The C5 has to be better on the "all around" HP, but I know that that Bobs vette could easy go over 200, because last time I even was able to see the MPHs (i'm 6'4" so I could see into the dash from the passenger side) we were 160mph and it seemed like we just started the run.

I think it's "neet?" going fast like that, but I can't help to think of all the stuff that could go wrong at high speed driveing, tires, spindle nuts, even a rabbit that may find it's way under a tire, no less a deer!

Street light and 1/4 times are fine for me, tho I do have a fire bulding to do a 70-73 firebird for road raceing, if anything it's easy to build then a drag racer. I can leave some stuff alone reather then getting it acid diped for weight or replaced with glass, and I don't have to figure out who is going to "back-half" my GTO.

I kinda look forward to a F body road car, that just as easy take it on a long trip, maybe I may even keep a spare 3rd member in the car with 4 11's for a track run!?

I wanted to take a picture of my car on a CA beach, FL beach, more or less a cross country trip takeing pictures all the way.
This guy did a great job, and I would like to do the same thing.


http://www.allmusclecars.com/pontiac/eb72tadf1.jpg
http://www.allmusclecars.com/pontiac/by72df.jpg

See the 1970 GTO in the this frontend, and how about the 72 air extractors and 1970/72 chrome cross's in the trun signals from the? Even today in the Grand AM the GTO can still be seen, those lovely grill intakes by PMD have been handed down the line as Tradition, it should never die, nor should cars like these...

I want to show you some more pontiacs that owe it's looks to the GTO.

http://www.simnet.is/ingla/image/1973_spread.jpg

The Fire Bird on the right took the 71GTO scoops and pulled them up and out.
http://www.cars-on-line.com/12200/71gto12299-AA.jpg

http://www.simnet.is/ingla/image/1972_catalogue.jpg

http://www.neilwilgus.com/nw/OldCars/sd455/ta1.jpg
Here things get a little flatter, in later years on the TA the side extractors turn into the intake for the carb, seems the noise from the shaker was to much for the new noise laws.
http://www.chavisauto.com/images/1997%20Pontiac%20Grand%20AM%20Coupe.jpg
This 1997 grand Am says "See my GTO past".
http://www.fastautosales.com/images/models/pontiac_firebird.jpg http://www.jimhoeg.com/images/70judge.jpg
See me past and present.
No other car in the world has spawned a "look" into different bodys, A,G,F and so on and has lived so long.

I hope you can get a better feel of the what and why I don't like the import GTO.

HPP has not run one "Pontiac Engine" idea/mod in over half a year!

I have not driven the Solstice and don't plan to even test drive the Chevy powered one, also, I have driven faster vettes then the C6 or Z06.

Just because GM comes out with a few well built cars it can't catch imports that do it all the time...

I do refuse to drive the fake GTO, i'm better then that, Please don't lay any of this "how can you judge the car if you don't drive it crap" as I never said this car was not a amazing or well built by the Aussis car, it's just a Lie or a car.
I'm glad I don't have the type of obsessive-compulsive disorder that you have.

I've lived all over the country and travelled all over the world. I've discovered one immutable truth. Some people aren't happy unless they can find something to complain about. Nothing is ever good enough. Nothing ever meets their standards.

Well I for one couldn't care less if a few neurotic people don't like the GTO. So it doesn't have this do-dad or the "perfect weight distribution" or look like some Tempest from way back, for all the "racing" I'm sure you can do. (yes, that was sarcasm...)

I for one applaud GM for the move they have made. Lutz has started to turn the behemoth around. Unfortunately, like a Ford Excursion, the bureaucracty at GM won't turn on a dime. It will take time to get from where GM is now to where we all want them to be and I applaud this new move. So what if it isn't perfect the first time out of the chute? Rome wasn't built in a day, neither was your 72.

So go ahead and tilt at your windmills and beat your chest as you rant about minutia. I for one have ordered the 06 and I am going to blow your doors with this GTO and enjoy it. It's going to be better than any performance car Pontiac has ever sold, including yours. Even if it's no better than the Monaro in handling, it will still out perform anything Pontiac has ever put on the street. And it's well within the straight line performance class of the retired F or A body. For it's very reasonable price of $33K, I'll enjoy it. I'll have fun tossing into the corners and scooting up to highway speeds or passing on two lane roads. Because I'm not stupid enough to street race but still enjoy some competition now and again, I may even take mine to a track once in a while just for fun. I know I won't be the fastest one there but I'm still going to have a faster than average, drivable, enjoyable coupe for a very reasonable price. Anyone who feels the same is welcome to join me.

The rest of you can do what it is you do so well. Sit in front of your computers yelling back and forth about equipment lists and numbers on paper, never knowing the true thrill of the visceral experience that driving can be. Time slips don't lie.

What do you think?


I think you have beat this topic to death, several times, in many different threads, and over the past couple of years.

You act as if you live in a continous loop with no way out. You start a thread and some how work in the fact that you think the new GTO is a lie and all GM's are powered by a Chevy engine, then the thread goes through a debate with other members and finally quiets down. A bit of quiet time passes and then, poof, you start a new thread with the same opinion as before with a slight new angle of context.

It's time to move on....

I sat and read all these, and I did not know the car was a import, how can Pontiac call it a GTO when it's not even a Pontiac idea?

Anyhow to me he looks like he was quite pizzed but I would have to say hes right, and he never said anything about how the car did at the track or on the road, he just said it was a lie, he never said it was a bad car, it's just a lie, he says and I would have to say a Chevy engine in import played as a GTO is a lie...

I don't know about you, but it seems you guys are beating this as much as he is? i'm I right?

I have read the Pontiac GTO forum, and nothing else is going on, why not have this?


Seems like you guys like the car, but is it a real Pontiac?

Is he forceing you to write here? Or is he just writing something you on't what people to know?