4-banger my a$$

A long while ago I made a post saying how hp/L numbers were bull shit and instead of reposting the past I'll sum it up I said that a 528 hemi (like those in drag cars) made tons of hp/L but nobody says it that way because it's dumb and people with small engines use the number to make a low hp car sound like it's more guttsy than it really is. well someone (I don't remember who) said that my 528 didn't count because it was supercharged. and insisted that some import mag. featured a 4000hp 4 cyl. well about a week ago I was watching the history channel and they had a show on the history of drag racing and they showed this particular car. it had a 4.8L 4 cyl. 4.8 f***ing Liters is only .2 liters smaller than the V8 motor in car! all it was was a solid block of aluminum that someone hacked out four holes in and put in sleeves for the pistons. I've seen that some people have said about how domestic guys are "no replacement for displacement" and that is stupid because all we do is just make the engine bigger instead of trying to make more power with what we got but this just goes to show displacement makes power so :flipa: to all of you who think your gonna make a 1.8 4-banger some rocket big displacement means big power obviously domestic guys aren't the only ones to figure that out. :cool:

There is a replacement for displacement, it's called revs:rolleyes:

How bout one of the Top Secret Supras that uses a 3SGTE (4cyl MR2 Moter) 2.0l displacement tuned to 720hp at 8500 RPM?
http://www.topsecretjpn.com/New/GT300supra/GT300-engine-big.JPG

How bout Croydons R32 with 1028hp out of a 2.6l I6?
http://www.croydons.co.nz/photos/news_godzilla2.jpg

How bout the Yellow R33 at www.toprpm.com with 1000~ hp out of another 2.6l I6?

Or the tons of other examples of well tuned, small displacement engines in Japan, NZ, Aus, ect?

Both large displacement engines and low displacement engines have their pros and cons, please learn to realize both of them. Not trying to flame, just trying to broaden your horizons from what is here in our country.

referring to the replacement for displacement(besides rev's).... technology:p

Isn't technology wonderful :D

On topic though we must not forget about the blown 500 cid motors in the top fuel drag cars producing over 5,000hp. No one really knows, but think about how fast they can accelerate! Now that is 1,000 hp per litre. In anyones book that is impressive.

Like Gonthrax has said though open your mind not your mouth as you only look like a smuck. I have always owned V8 powered, and a very large V8 in when I was in the States. that was a 78 Camaro Z28 with an Airis 650 cid mill. No forced induction or fancy fuel injection just sheer ground pounding and snorting out just over 1,400 hp.

I now own a GTR that is producing a pultry 375 hp but love this car. To each his own. Love it or sell it.

Originally posted by Firebird
A long while ago I made a post saying how hp/L numbers were bull shit and instead of reposting the past I'll sum it up I said that a 528 hemi (like those in drag cars) made tons of hp/L but nobody says it that way because it's dumb and people with small engines use the number to make a low hp car sound like it's more guttsy than it really is. well someone (I don't remember who) said that my 528 didn't count because it was supercharged. and insisted that some import mag. featured a 4000hp 4 cyl. well about a week ago I was watching the history channel and they had a show on the history of drag racing and they showed this particular car. it had a 4.8L 4 cyl. 4.8 f***ing Liters is only .2 liters smaller than the V8 motor in car! all it was was a solid block of aluminum that someone hacked out four holes in and put in sleeves for the pistons. I've seen that some people have said about how domestic guys are "no replacement for displacement" and that is stupid because all we do is just make the engine bigger instead of trying to make more power with what we got but this just goes to show displacement makes power so :flipa: to all of you who think your gonna make a 1.8 4-banger some rocket big displacement means big power obviously domestic guys aren't the only ones to figure that out. :cool:


What a fine example of ignorance. :)

keep in mind that those 5000 hp behemoths break something nearly every run. and they are torn down every run to make sure they didnt

high maintenance?

i'll take a daily driven 400 hp any day, in any car... it doesn't matter if it is 4/6/8

as long as it's quick...

Originally posted by Firebird
A long while ago I made a post saying...


You said it! "Long while ago" you didn't convince anyone either. Why? Because both sides are being too stand-offish!

Displacement is good. Technology is good. NOW: Combine them!!! There is the real answer!


I want to see a 5 Litre engine, with VTEC + Twin Turbo + NOS. That is the ultimate system- the best of both worlds! Now stop fighting, kids:finger:

Originally posted by flylwsi
keep in mind that those 5000 hp behemoths break something nearly every run. and they are torn down every run to make sure they didnt

high maintenance?

i'll take a daily driven 400 hp any day, in any car... it doesn't matter if it is 4/6/8

as long as it's quick...

That is so very true. I would hate to see their running costs for one full season of racing. I bet i could retire on that alone.

A 5 litre with VTEC, twin turbo and nos? Crazy!

Originally posted by DMC12



You said it! "Long while ago" you didn't convince anyone either. Why? Because both sides are being too stand-offish!

Displacement is good. Technology is good. NOW: Combine them!!! There is the real answer!


I want to see a 5 Litre engine, with VTEC + Twin Turbo + NOS. That is the ultimate system- the best of both worlds! Now stop fighting, kids:finger:

We just might see somthing like that in the 2004 GTR release, perhaps a small, high reving V8 not unlike those infinity makes for IRL and CART :licker: And if it likes to be turbo charged.... Mmmmmm :flash: :flash: :flash:

Well, its very simple. If you have a old, sluggish platform such as an 80's Firebird, you are going to need a 5+ liter V8. If you have a nice 2400 lb sports car, with a 2.2L motor that makes 230hp @5800rpm, and 258lbft @1950rpm...

Or you can build a twin turbo flat 12 that makes 1200hp, and gobs of torque... Or you can start with a good old fashioned 6.6 liter Ford smallblock, and convert it to digital ignition, EFI and twin electronically controlled turbocharges...

Sorry, my posts are all rather biased. :silly2:

There is quite a bit of discussion in my home forum about revs/tech vs displacement. Since we all have practically the same car (Datsun Zs) and there are many different engine swaps that vary from skyline sixes to supercharged bigblocks. Here is my openion. In general you are going to have more potential with more cubic inches. People often compare apples to oranges by contrasting the performance of a turbo charged tricked out 4 to a stock 8. I belive with the same mods the V8 will most times come out on top.

With that said, I have great respect for some the the 2.0L and smallar engines. The MR2 turbo responds to mods as well and any car I know. This little car (with around 12psi boost) can run with a new mustang GT without breaking a sweat. Only thing to consider is what would the mustang run with if it had 12psi boost?

Someone said above that V8s come in big platform cars. Well sometimes thats true but not always. My 240Z weighs in at 2600lbs (with my fat ass) and will be equipped with a 450hp 355 chevy.

utvolman99: wow... a 355 in a 240z?? is there any cutting involved? what website can i go to to learn more about 240z's?

now, there is lots to be said about the old and new technology.
if you want eyeball removing torque, you go with a good old fashioned big block muscle car.
if you want smooth, quiet acceleration you go with a turbo charged small engine in a small car.
i like big v8s because of the way they sound.

but the coolest thing happens when you mix old technology with the two.
on my other forum that i regularly visit there is a guy with a 6 speed 440 coronet with twin turbos (from 86 nissan 300z's) and a tunnel ram setup with two holley fuel injection throttle bodies.
the large cubic inches paired with the turbos makes this car very easy to maintain because it only revs 5500 at max power (970 hp and 1130 ft lbs torque @ 4300) so it doesn't break a lot of parts. the stock dodge rods are still in the car!
and because of the efficiency of fuel injection, it is better on gas than most other 1000 hp cars. it has very streetable manners, and with the 6 speed it will cruise for hours at 2000 rpm and 80 mph.
now THAT is my goal in life.

I didn't ready any replys but heres what I think... it's impossible to get a fast car from a 4 banger... why do people say americans cars suck because they have big engines... WHY DON'T THEY USE SMALLER ENGINES and better L/HP JUST LIKE JAPANESE... well are japanese cars with good L/HP fast?

Originally posted by MightyM
I didn't ready any replys but heres what I think... it's impossible to get a fast car from a 4 banger... why do people say americans cars suck because they have big engines... WHY DON'T THEY USE SMALLER ENGINES and better L/HP JUST LIKE JAPANESE... well are japanese cars with good L/HP fast?



Do you know how incorrect this statement is? A 9 second 4 banger sure seems pretty fast to me. Need more? 12 Second 4 bangers are pretty damn common nowdays. Need proof? I will be glad to show you.

For anyone who is interested in the 240, 260, 280Z V8 conversion here are some links. This is the main forum for Datsun Z modification.

Hybrid Z (our Forum) (http://www.hybridz.org/main.htm)

here are some other really good sights

Pete's page (one of the best!) (http://mywebpages.comcast.net/pparaska/)

more budget minded (http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/eveland/ghetto/zcar/)

There are many more, you can find most of them from Pete's link page. By the way there is no cutting involved. The Zs have a strut suspension and have more than enough room under the hood. There are all kinds of swaps going on right now. The most popular is the smal block chevy, a place called JTR (Jags that Run) sells a must have book and kit. Other swaps ive seen are Grand National, smal block Ford VG30DET, VG30DET, RB26DETT, RB25DET, RB20DET, SR20DET. I have also seen the new Toyota V8

Originally posted by MightyM
I didn't ready any replys but heres what I think... it's impossible to get a fast car from a 4 banger... why do people say americans cars suck because they have big engines... WHY DON'T THEY USE SMALLER ENGINES and better L/HP JUST LIKE JAPANESE... well are japanese cars with good L/HP fast?

I never said American Cars suck for any reason... See, not all of us are close minded like you. We recognice a nice engine for what it is, no matter what it is. I shouldn't even dignify your post with an intelligent reply but... I'm bored, so why not!

I like smaller engines because of the following reasons.

1: They are lighter and therefore more responsive, you don't have to start replacing the bottom end with light (Expensive) things to make it rev quickly when you tap the gas

2: Although the ground pounding rumble of a hemi is nice, I personaly like the howl of a well balenced I6.

3: Most small engines are built to rev higher then large engines and I like having a nice long smooth powerband.

Now, as for all those "Slow" 4bangers... Dude, there are tons of quick and very powerfull 4 cyl cars.

I refer you agian too http://www.topsecretjpn.com/New/GT300supra/GT300-engine-big.JPG

MR2 4 cyl moter... 720hp If you'd like I'll dig up more :)


BTW, I see your from BG, do you race at Beach Bend? If so have you raced the Hyabusa out there? From your sig you should be able to give him a run, he ran a 9.43 last time I saw him race :D :D

And I'm working on an MR2 so perhaps I'll be able to show you a real life example of a fast "4 banger" :D

don't BMW engines run a type of VTEC? VANOS?

is their v8 motor an ohc motor? or is it pushrod? that would be your car...


vtec on a big motor is called a ferrari 550 maranello, or 575 m, or maybe anything that lamborghini has... pretty sure those are ohc... tons of tq and hp in bigger motors with lots of technology to be sure....

one thing to keep in mind here...

what are these cars built to do?

most 4 cyl cars are designed to be an econo box. running 9s impresses me. 12s still impresses me. beating a mustang/camaro/anything with a v8 in it really impresses me b/c the civic is an econo car beating a car DESIGNED to go fast.

Originally posted by flylwsi
one thing to keep in mind here...

what are these cars built to do?

most 4 cyl cars are designed to be an econo box. running 9s impresses me. 12s still impresses me. beating a mustang/camaro/anything with a v8 in it really impresses me b/c the civic is an econo car beating a car DESIGNED to go fast.

Quite true, I have much respect for the actual fast civics and crxs out there. There are still quite a few of 4cyls that were designed to go fast also :) MR2, WRX, 944, ect ect

you know what i mean though... small displacement cars in general are slow right now (counting out the sporty stuff like an elise or something, you know what i'm counting out)

they are generally econo boxes that weren't built for fast. so it's cool when something that is "built for fast" is beat by an econo box...




the other reason for a big displacement motor not having alot of tech is b/c it is pretty expensive... like the bmws v8 cars are expensive...

and if you have big displacement, you don't need as much tech by virtue of the laws of "more displacement = more power"

i think everyone can see where i am gettin at

First off, i respect 4-bangers. I mean, look at the SR, that's a pretty nice 4-cylinder with potential.
But, like that guy said, An MR2 running 12psi boost MIGHT be able to hang with a stock v8 mustang, BUT what if that mustang was running 12psi boost??!?!?!?

Exactly, the bigger engines have more potential, the ONLY reason that you dont see more of the bigger engines with tech/rev is because of the price. If money was no object , then the bigger american cars running the same tech as the smaller jap cars would own. But money is an object and that's why the honda civic exists.
But what is wrong is when someone buys an piece of crap civic for like 1 dollar and puts mods worth more than the car in it, then he goes around acting all proud that he can hang with the v8's like he thinks that the v8 powered cars run the same tech as him.
Money is the issue folks.

But yeah, a dream car would be the lightweight body of an import with the raw power of an american engine Like that one guys 240z with the 355 chevy:jump:
Those 9-second 4-bangers are pretty nice too, but WHY?!?!
Just get a better engine and work from there, why try so hard with something that small?

I've got a first gen RX-7 with a 6.6 liter Ford smallblock in it. You can't really drive it on the street, it's just a track car.

My other car is on the way, a 79 924, with modifications. It's a 4 cylinder Porsche, and it makes around 150 hp. It has a perfect 50/50 weight balance, is about as light as Civic, but handles like a dream. If I wanted to spend a bit building the motor, I could. I am going to put a maximum of $2000 into the engine. Any more than that, and I lose all driveability. I might as well just put in a more powerful motor in it.

The fact is, my 150hp 924 will cook you Firebird to 60, because it has better gearing and less weight on a similar sized tire. Sure, you'll have a little more power at the end of the run, but I'll have won by then.

Or you can race the RX-7. It'll blow the doors off of a 911 Turbo, or a Z06 Corvette. It's no fun to drive though, but the 924 is.