What’s wrong with Ford and the new Mustang?

Is something "wrong" with beating Porsche, BMW, Nissan, etc. on the race track?

http://www.grandamerican.com/News/Article.asp?ID=5227

http://www.multimaticmotorsports.com/mustang/empringham.html

http://www.grandamerican.com/News/Article.asp?ID=5269
That proves absolutely nothing!!!

You do know that the FR500C was the only car allowed to run a non production based engine? The M3 was limited to the 3.2 and OEM intake while the FR500C was permitted to use the Cammer and a racing intake.
http://www.grandamerican.com/CONTENT/Docs/PDF/2005/2005%20GAC%203-28.pdf

Things would have been totally different if BMW was allowed to run the new 3 series with a V8.

The Austrailan Ford Falcon should be built here.
Yes the Falcon is a great car as is the Focus RS and many other cars that Ford produces for over seas markets. The problem is that we are stuck with water downed versions or crap they claim is better than it is. Like I posted above Ford will tell you to look at Grand-AM cup but they fail to tell you they had more advantages than any other manufacturer in the series.

Too much love in here.

Yes the new S7 is insanely bad and when i win the lottery i will own one. Not arguing but 0-60 in 2.8 out of 450hp seems a little much. The Enzo ran 3-3 with 650hp, given it does weigh 3200lbs but come on. A 2.8 would throw it in the S7 range and run 1/4 at mid-high 10s. It would theoretically have to weight about 1770lbs.
Why spend all that money on that when you can get a 2.9 0-60 car for $40K?

I HAVE TWO QUESTIONS.

1. How do I attach a quote? That way I won't have to say "Hey Cobra guy."

2. Why the hell did this last page get so damn wide? I hate that, I feel like a damn typwriter when I scroll to the right, then left, then right, then left. THAT SUCKS!!

Oh, by the way....Hey Stang 00...I do realize that having a 16k v8 Mustang is not possible today. However...why did they drop the 5.0 and 5.8 (pushrod engines)? They were VERY reliable, good power and great torque (could've been more if Ford used SVT/GT40-COBRA intake/heads). A friend of mine who works at a Ford dealership in the service dept. said that Ford did that because they were not selling enough replacement engines for the 5.0/5.8. True or not, I don't know. Knowing Ford it could be true.

If Ford still had the 5.0/5.8 the Mustang would be alot cheaper than they are now. Think about it guys, less cams, less valves, and no, not less power. I know the 5.0 had 225 vs. 260(4.6 1999-04) but I'm sure if the 5.0 was still here after 10 years they would have improved on it.

For example: base-200hp v6 3.8 or 4.0....I don't care which one
base GT-300hp 5.0..no prob. w/bolt on stuff (SVT/GT40)
GT premium-350hp 5.0...maybe a supercharger?
COBRA-400+hp 5.8...bolt ons, heads, supercharger?
I'm not doggin the 4.6 it's bottom end is stronger than the 5.0, but I don't see the benefit 10 years latter from switching to the modular 4.6.
Gas mileage is about the same, power was the same til 99 (not much more) and 300 05. I almost envy GM guys cause they still have a pushrod engine (v8's) that they have room to work on it.
I THINK THIS IS MY LONGEST POST...SORRY, I'LL GO IN TIMEOUT NOW.

1. How do I attach a quote? That way I won't have to say "Hey Cobra guy."
hit the reply button under the post you want to quote or type [ QUOTE=name of the person or item you want to quote] type or past the quote here then type [ /QUOTE] but leave out the space between the [ and the Q and /

2. Why the hell did this last page get so damn wide? I hate that, I feel like a damn typwriter when I scroll to the right, then left, then right, then left. THAT SUCKS!!
When TheStang00 quoted my post with the picture of the Focus RS his post became too wide so it activated the left/right scroll bar

About the only benefit to the mod motors (non DOHC) was to save money. It made it possible for them to share parts between brands and between the 4.6 and 5.4. The DOHC does offer a big benefit to people that enjoy Road racing like myself thanks the to increased RPMs and power band. It does have the disadvantage of size and weight however the 01 blocks are only 80lbs.

also, no stock escort in 99 is going to beat a stock manual v6 stang from 99 period.

lol now THAT'S bull shit

ZX2 15.6(best i have personaly seen)
ZX2 S/R 15.4 (again best i have personaly seen)
99+v6 15.6(again best i have personaly seen)

best 05 time ican find on line stock is a 15.2

unless its a 05+ then a ZX2 can meet or beat any stock v6 stang.

Its a fact of life. Learn it. Live it.

hit the reply button under the post you want to quote or type [ QUOTE=name of the person or item you want to quote] type or past the quote here then type [ /QUOTE] but leave out the space between the [ and the Q and /


When TheStang00 quoted my post with the picture of the Focus RS his post became too wide so it activated the left/right scroll bar

About the only benefit to the mod motors (non DOHC) was to save money. It made it possible for them to share parts between brands and between the 4.6 and 5.4. The DOHC does offer a big benefit to people that enjoy Road racing like myself thanks the to increased RPMs and power band. It does have the disadvantage of size and weight however the 01 blocks are only 80lbs.


Did it work? Let's see.

HEY, ALRIGHT!! You learn something new everyday!
THANK YOU COBRA!!

I see what you're sayin ZX2 but, come on, which looks better? Which one is more fun to drive? It's been a long time since I've driven either a ZX2 or 99-04 v6 Stang so I really can't remember how they performed. I know the Stang would have more off the line but I also know that the wieght of the Escort would help it once it got going. That is evident by the times you showed us. I know we should like the quicker time no matter how we get it but I think the Stang would be more fun in a drag race. I'm sure the Escort can handle/brake better with its lighter wieght on a road course, but I think you guys are talking about drag racing. Sorry man, not doggin ya or anything, it's just your prefferance and our prefferance. You do get better gas mileage and you can go through the snow, which that would be nice, but for a sports car I'd rather have RWD.

ok crub weight of escort 2500lbs, mustang v6 3050lbs.

that is a pretty good difference.

power- escort 130hp, 135tq. mustang v6 190hp, 220tq.

so the mustang has %46 more hp and 63% more tq.

or in otherwords, a lot more. plus its RWD. I cant see a stock escort beating a stock manual v6 stang. but the weight dif would help a lot.

and i must say i def agree with giddyup50's points

and theres also the tq factor... its nice to actually have some low end...

I HAVE TWO QUESTIONS.


Oh, by the way....Hey Stang 00...I do realize that having a 16k v8 Mustang is not possible today. However...why did they drop the 5.0 and 5.8 (pushrod engines)? They were VERY reliable, good power and great torque (could've been more if Ford used SVT/GT40-COBRA intake/heads). A friend of mine who works at a Ford dealership in the service dept. said that Ford did that because they were not selling enough replacement engines for the 5.0/5.8. True or not, I don't know. Knowing Ford it could be true.

If Ford still had the 5.0/5.8 the Mustang would be alot cheaper than they are now. Think about it guys, less cams, less valves, and no, not less power. I know the 5.0 had 225 vs. 260(4.6 1999-04) but I'm sure if the 5.0 was still here after 10 years they would have improved on it.



yep those engines were reliable and nice. i think ford switched to the ohc motors to move on technologically. think about it, ohc motors have been the trend as of recent, gm and dodge are the only companies that still use ohv at all. and they have there fair share of ohc motors also. i think ford was just following that trend, i think they realized the potential of ohc (mainly dohc) motors. the 4.6 really is there first try at it. in the future ill be willing to bet theyll have a much better ohc v8. something that will compete with or kill the ls1. but we'll see.

but i to like ohv engines, i have my 3.8, and even tho the ranger has no power, i like the 2.5 in it also. extremely reliable engines. and really the ranger engine has more potential than my 3.8 v6, its the same motor except bored some that was in the SVO mustang. can take boat loads of boost. and has a hefty aftermarket.

ok crub weight of escort 2500lbs, mustang v6 3050lbs.

that is a pretty good difference.

power- escort 130hp, 135tq. mustang v6 190hp, 220tq.

so the mustang has %46 more hp and 63% more tq.

or in otherwords, a lot more. plus its RWD. I cant see a stock escort beating a stock manual v6 stang. but the weight dif would help a lot.

and i must say i def agree with giddyup50's points

and theres also the tq factor... its nice to actually have some low end...


YOU LIKE ME...YOU REALLY REALLY LIKE ME!!
clear my throat.....sorry guys...just kiddin again
I think I picked the wrong week to quite smokin crack
JUST KIDDIN AGAIN GUYS....GEE WHIZ, CALM DOWN!

When TheStang00 quoted my post with the picture of the Focus RS his post became too wide so it activated the left/right scroll bar


wasnt it like that on your original too? i thought it was, if you go back in look it doesnt fit either. for that matter neither does the shebly gt350 jaguar posted either.

edit- damn ive become a post whore :uhoh:

wasnt it like that on your original too? i thought it was, if you go back in look it doesnt fit either. for that matter neither does the shebly gt350 jaguar posted either.

edit- damn ive become a post whore :uhoh:


We're all post whores, I keep saying I'm going to bed but I keep posting.

lol now THAT'S bull shit

ZX2 15.6(best i have personaly seen)
ZX2 S/R 15.4 (again best i have personaly seen)
99+v6 15.6(again best i have personaly seen)

best 05 time ican find on line stock is a 15.2

unless its a 05+ then a ZX2 can meet or beat any stock v6 stang.

Its a fact of life. Learn it. Live it. what u have seen at the track doesent mean anything. 99-04 v6 5 speeds can run low 15's

What is wrong with the new new 3.5 liter V-6?

What is wrong with having the best sales since 1994?

The new Mustang is really in its own market which is of an afforable, rwd, aggressive coupe and convertible. The new GT500 isn't the only new Mustang model coming either.

What is wrong with the new new 3.5 liter V-6?

What is wrong with having the best sales since 1994?

The new Mustang is really in its own market which is of an afforable, rwd, aggressive coupe and convertible. The new GT500 isn't the only new Mustang model coming either.

are they making a mach1?

Here in England, the Cosworth Escorts are plain badass.


Nothing wrong with todays Mustangs, nothing wrong with a GTO (Holden Commodore), or any of the other car mentioned. Its all a personal choice, meaning we are motivated by different things. No one is right, but no one is wrong...well other than the escort guy :) j/k

Give me a push rod V8 any day, and I will be happy.

Here in England, the Cosworth Escorts are plain badass.


Nothing wrong with todays Mustangs, nothing wrong with a GTO (Holden Commodore), or any of the other car mentioned. Its all a personal choice, meaning we are motivated by different things. No one is right, but no one is wrong...well other than the escort guy :) j/k

Give me a push rod V8 any day, and I will be happy.

Thank you Sky! I agree completely!

Here in England, the Cosworth Escorts are plain badass.


Nothing wrong with todays Mustangs, nothing wrong with a GTO (Holden Commodore), or any of the other car mentioned. Its all a personal choice, meaning we are motivated by different things. No one is right, but no one is wrong...well other than the escort guy :) j/k

Give me a push rod V8 any day, and I will be happy.


:iagree:

what u have seen at the track doesent mean anything. 99-04 v6 5 speeds can run low 15's

and a zx2 s/r CAN run a 15.3 but your average driver on you average track sure isnt.


and lets not forget gearing

a ZX2 is acutally 130/127 the FOCUS is 130/135. and the ZX2 still beats the focus ZX3 easily, why? weight and gearing. hell ive already beat a Focus ST at the track and he has 7hp and like 15tq on me, again, weight and gearing I KNOW the guy could drive.

are they making a mach1?
Mach1, Bullet, and the California Special have a green light at this time. The BOSS is still a pipe dream as is the GT350. The California Special will be the next in line right after the GT500. The Mach1 and Bullet have no set date for production to start at this time.

nothing wrong with a GTO
The GTO has the worst IRS I have ever seen.

What is wrong with having the best sales since 1994?
Who cares about sales when then product being sold is over weight, under powered, and already outdated before its introduction. Please even the Eclipse offers a 6 speed. The 3650 in the Mustang is absolutely horrible and has been since 01 yet they continue to use it.

Here is an actual review of the "outdated" new Mustang convertible which has more than twice the torsional stiffness of the 2004 Mustang convertible.

The new convertible was designed alongside the new coupe.

Car & Driver ranked its rigidity on par with a BMW 3 series convertible.

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=9480

Who cares about sales when then product being sold is over weight, under powered, and already outdated before its introduction. Please even the Eclipse offers a 6 speed. The 3650 in the Mustang is absolutely horrible and has been since 01 yet they continue to use it.

what i just dont get is you act like this thing should be built like the Z06 or something, but still cost 23-25k range. its not gonna happen.

nothign from the mustang line is impressive thats all ther is to it.

the v6 is under powered and not sporty
the GT is the best performance/price deal in the line up ill give it that, but the v6 gets the best apperance options.
GT500 = over heavy, and for the drivetrain way under powered, and a POS for the price.

thats just how it is

for 50K I'd rather:
1. SC the 4.6 GT
2. SC a GTO
3. buy a C6

all those car can be made(or already do in the C6's case) to make the GT500 look stupid for less then teh 500's cost.

the POINT of the cobras was a GREAT bang for the buck, now its just Ford giving over priced shit on there heavy as hell car.

atleast in the case of the GTO if you redo the suspention you get not only great handeling but a large weight reduction since the stock suspention weighs so much.

I basicly only view ford over all as utter shit and very unimpressive products anymore. The only car they make that I like is the new Zephyr. It seems like the nicest car ford has now.

nothign from the mustang line is impressive thats all ther is to it.

the v6 is under powered and not sporty
the GT is the best performance/price deal in the line up ill give it that, but the v6 gets the best apperance options.
GT500 = over heavy, and for the drivetrain way under powered, and a POS for the price.

thats just how it is

for 50K I'd rather:
1. SC the 4.6 GT
2. SC a GTO
3. buy a C6

all those car can be made(or already do in the C6's case) to make the GT500 look stupid for less then teh 500's cost.

the POINT of the cobras was a GREAT bang for the buck, now its just Ford giving over priced shit on there heavy as hell car.

atleast in the case of the GTO if you redo the suspention you get not only great handeling but a large weight reduction since the stock suspention weighs so much.

I basicly only view ford over all as utter shit and very unimpressive products anymore. The only car they make that I like is the new Zephyr. It seems like the nicest car ford has now.

theyre all a lot more impressive than a escort....

i dont even pay attention to what you say anymore. you feed me this bs about escorts, but what you dont realize is i used to own one.

what i just dont get is you act like this thing should be built like the Z06 or something, but still cost 23-25k range. its not gonna happen.
No I would never expect them to do that. But for that price I would expect a 6 speed not the shitty 3650 that has been nothing but a problem since 01. Also the D2C platform AKA S197 is utter crap compared to the DEW98 that it replaces.

Now for $45K+ I do expect a hell of a lot better than what the GT500 is. Hell it’s more expensive than the base C6 and the C6 is a far superior car. Ford just needs to wake up and realize it’s not the 70’s any more. A 2 ton brutish monstrosity such as the GT500 is laughable at that kind of price tag. In terms of weight and power it’s going to be inline with cars like the SRT-8s only the SRT-8s are around $5K+ less.

theyre all a lot more impressive than a escort....

i dont even pay attention to what you say anymore. you feed me this bs about escorts, but what you dont realize is i used to own one.

what does the fact they are more then an escort have to do with anything? NOTHING

The fact you probably owened a 90's SOHC SPI doesnt have shit to so w/ a DOHC Zetec. If anything this convo proved you have no clue what an Escort can do.

a ZX2 and Escort has as much in comon as a SRT-4 does w/ a Neon. Name only.

Now for $45K+ I do expect a hell of a lot better than what the GT500 is. Hell it’s more expensive than the base C6 and the C6 is a far superior car. Ford just needs to wake up and realize it’s not the 70’s any more. A 2 ton brutish monstrosity such as the GT500 is laughable at that kind of price tag.


See, someone knows what they are talking about.

You know what's funny look at the advancements the Miata has had over the years then look at the Mustang.

I really think Ford needs to take a step back and learn a few things from the new MX-5.

Weight reduction in the bumpers, hood, trunk lid, and engine
Engine moved further rearward for better balance
Slanted radiator and redesigned fuel tank for a lower center of gravity

All of that and the price tag is still the same.

The MX-5 can be considered as being on one of the lowest rungs of the Ford ladder yet it has seen more advancements than most of the cars we know and love that wear the blue oval.

You know what's funny look at the advancements the Miata has had over the years then look at the Mustang.

I really think Ford needs to take a step back and learn a few things from the new MX-5.

Weight reduction in the bumpers, hood, trunk lid, and engine
Engine moved further rearward for better balance
Slanted radiator and redesigned fuel tank for a lower center of gravity

The MX-5 can be considered as being on one of the lowest rungs of the Ford ladder yet it has seen more advancements than most of the cars we know and love that wear the blue oval.

It seems the LESS time Ford itself spends on a car the better it is.

Examples:
Mazdaspeed Protege was faster and handled better then the SVT Focus.

Mazda designed the new 2.3l Ford is basing the new cars on.

Ford spent years designing the Focus and it had one of the work recall/TSB rates in history, the Zx2 was a parts bin car and has 2 recalls.

The Mazda6/3/5 put the Taurus/Focus to shame in all aspects.

Best V6 in a ford was made by Yamaha or based on a Mazda, and best I4's are designed by mazda or Cosworth.

That’s true my first car was a tempo and for 200K miles the only problem was with a rubber O ring on the power steering.

That’s true my first car was a tempo and for 200K miles the only problem was with a rubber O ring on the power steering.

Ford pushed the 88(87?)Taurus as its next generation car. What happened? the tranny had a TON of problems with dieing before 60k (but they still used it till like 96 or 97) and the best motor it ever had was designed by Yamaha.

When ford tried to make there own version of the Yamaha they made a 3.4l v8 that unless you welded the cams it had SERIOUS problems. HA!

It seems the LESS time Ford itself spends on a car the better it is.
Some times...The GT was a rush job and look at all the problems it had in the first year. However I guess they can blame that on Saleen since they built it and they don't even really warranty their own cars. Well they do but about the only thing a warranty form them is good for is when your in the woods and it’s the only thing handy when you take a dump,

what does the fact they are more then an escort have to do with anything? NOTHING

The fact you probably owened a 90's SOHC SPI doesnt have shit to so w/ a DOHC Zetec. If anything this convo proved you have no clue what an Escort can do.

a ZX2 and Escort has as much in comon as a SRT-4 does w/ a Neon. Name only.

:rolleyes:

No I would never expect them to do that. But for that price I would expect a 6 speed not the shitty 3650 that has been nothing but a problem since 01. Also the D2C platform AKA S197 is utter crap compared to the DEW98 that it replaces.

Now for $45K+ I do expect a hell of a lot better than what the GT500 is. Hell it’s more expensive than the base C6 and the C6 is a far superior car. Ford just needs to wake up and realize it’s not the 70’s any more. A 2 ton brutish monstrosity such as the GT500 is laughable at that kind of price tag. In terms of weight and power it’s going to be inline with cars like the SRT-8s only the SRT-8s are around $5K+ less.

well 23k really isnt that much for a car. so i wouldnt necessarily expect a 6-speed. just curious... i have a T-5 so i wouldnt know, what is wrong with the 3650? but i think its still important to keep in mind price here, i think your asking to much for the car for its base price ( talking about the mustang gt and v6).

i agree the price tag on the gt500 is unfortunatly a little to high. the C6 is a better overall car, maybe not in a straight line but idk i havent seen them run, but overall theres no questions asked. but i thought that was around 50k? The gt500 is by no means laughable.

edit- question? do you hate your car or is it the only good mustang?

The GTO has the worst IRS I have ever seen.

Based on what?

Is that the same suspension on the Commodore? If so, have you seen the V8 series from the land down under? Pretty sure its not stock what they run, but if that is the case there is a big aftermarket for it.

Marcus Ambrose, anyone? That dude can flat out drive! Much better than watching NASCAR:)http://aolsearch.aol.co.uk/redir?urn=http%3A%2F%2Fus1.webpublications.com.au% 2Fstatic%2Fimages%2Farticles%2Fi1002%2F100280_2mg. jpg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fus1.webpublications.com.au%2Fstat ic%2Fimages%2Farticles%2Fi1002%2F100280_2mg.jpg&&requestId=2acc0aa5f4e74441&clickedItemRank=11&source=googleImage&searchType=IS&partner=Google&query=falcon%20bathurst

As inconsistent as Ford is before production, we may be a little to hard on the GT500 before we actually see what the finished product is like. I understand you can point out flows, but before we see it tested we really don't know sh*t. SVT didn't rush into this one and they've yet to let me down with the mustangs.

As inconsistent as Ford is before production, we may be a little to hard on the GT500 before we actually see what the finished product is like. I understand you can point out flows, but before we see it tested we really don't know sh*t. SVT didn't rush into this one and they've yet to let me down with the mustangs.

ive seen tests of it and it looked pretty damn impressive.

Are there any videos on the net?

As inconsistent as Ford is before production, we may be a little to hard on the GT500 before we actually see what the finished product is like. I understand you can point out flows, but before we see it tested we really don't know sh*t. SVT didn't rush into this one and they've yet to let me down with the mustangs.


As far as I'm aware SVT didnt design it, only produced/tested it, shelby did the designing from what Ive read.

well 23k really isnt that much for a car. so i wouldnt necessarily expect a 6-speed. just curious... i have a T-5 so i wouldnt know, what is wrong with the 3650? but i think its still important to keep in mind price here, i think your asking to much for the car for its base price ( talking about the mustang gt and v6).
The 3650 has had more TSBs than any other transmission in the past few years. Many have had to be rebuilt with under 30K miles on them. There is an issue with the clutch cable stretching. Ford has changed the recommended fluid level at least 3 times. The list just keeps going. For $25K I do expect a 6 speed other manufacturers can do it why cant Ford? I mean hell the Eclipse offers a 6 speed for under $25K.

maybe not in a straight line but idk i havent seen them run
Well the C6 has roughly 50hp less but it also weighs about 700lbs less. Honestly I think it would even have the advantage here.

edit- question? do you hate your car or is it the only good mustang?
Nope I don’t hate my car and I don’t think it’s the only good Mustang. However for what I like to do it is still the best. The 03/04 may be a little faster around the track but they don’t handle near as well.

Based on what?
The GTO uses a semi trailing arm (old out dated) set up. The camber and toe in/out changes as the suspension moves around. This is controlled to a degree by some toe control links.

C6=400
GT500 = 500

but the C6 weights about 650lbs less then the GT500, has a 6spd and has already been proven to be able to pull mid-low 12's depending on driver/track/rubber while costing about 8k less.

C6=400
GT500 = 500

but the C6 weights about 650lbs less then the GT500, has a 6spd and has already been proven to be able to pull mid-low 12's depending on driver/track/rubber while costing about 8k less.

gt500= 465 not 500. about 495 ft-lbs of tq. ur trying to down this car and you dont even know that?

but it has a solid axle going for it to, its important not to forget that.

the 03/04 could run high 12s and the new gt500 is definatly faster than that car. in every aspect.

As far as I'm aware SVT didnt design it, only produced/tested it, shelby did the designing from what Ive read.

Well then my theory's shot to hell. I'm anxious to see how much faster it will be than the 03-4 cobra (in the straight line of course). It will look alot better and cost 10k more, but we all know what can be done to an 03 for under 1k. The supercharger setup bothers me on the new ones, not being able to change the pulley and all. I don't really think i want to own anything that can't be modified easily.

C6 for road course, GT500 for the 1/4, well I would buy a GT and do my own mods, now for the guys that have no clue, I guess the GT500 will fit the bill.

Looks more like the GT500 will have 450hp not 465hp or 500hp
Finally, those whoe claim that the new 06 Ford Cobra, 06 Ford GT500 or Lightning will use the Lysholm Twin Screw are again dead wrong. The 06 Ford GT500 will utilize a new larger displacement Eaton 120 (2 liter) to handle the 450HP, instead of the 2.3 Lysholm. Reason: Ford chose to keep the Mustang's power level below the Ford GT and felt the HP was adequate, so the more efficient Twin Screw was not necessary...

http://www.kennebell.net/techinfo/ford-techinfo/AUTOROTORvsLYSHOLM.pdf

The GTO uses a semi trailing arm (old out dated) set up. The camber and toe in/out changes as the suspension moves around. This is controlled to a degree by some toe control links.

There are always band aids :) The Aussies seem to have dialed them in, if that is what they are running. What does the C6 use for its suspension?

Look at the crappy Fox suspension, install a torque arm and a PHB its like driving a new car.

The Holden Monaro AKA the Australian GTO uses a totally different rear suspension which is more advanced than the weak IRS American version.

The C6 Corvette uses leaf springs how ever it is still a more advanced IRS than the GTO or 99-04 Cobra. It works so well that the base C6 pulls .95gs on the skidpad while the new Z06 does 1.02gs.

2005 Chevrolet Corvette - Rear Suspension.
http://www.c6registry.com/Technical/Tech%5Fimages/images/PV__015817__.jpg

Now for $45K+ I do expect a hell of a lot better than what the GT500 is. Hell it’s more expensive than the base C6 and the C6 is a far superior car.

The base price of the new GT500 hasn't even been told to the public!

Have you driven the new GT500?

Only problem is, I would not want to run any 1/4 miles with a suspension set up for a road course. The physics is way different.

The base price of the new GT500 hasn't even been told to the public!
HTT the head of SVT let that slip sorry it looks like $45+K now

The hardest part of the Mustang is that it has unprecedented market positioning in terms of revenue. We have a V6 coupe that starts just below $20,000 and then we work all the way up to a Shelby GT500 that's probably going to be in excess of $45,000. So you're talking about more than a twofold increase and there are no other cars out there that do that.


http://www.themsj.com/media/paper20...=www.themsj.com

That link is dead.

Anyways, what is wrong with the new 3.5 liter V-6?

The current Mustang has a SOHC 4.0 liter V-6 with 210 hp and 240 lb-ft of torque. The new aluminum 3.5 liter V-6 will likely weigh less than the SOHC 4.0 liter iron-block V-6.

The new Ford Edge crossover will get Ford's all-new 3.5 liter DOHC V-6 next year.

Press release:

11-9-2005

- New 6-speed automatic transaxle that saves fuel - up to 7 percent in highway driving and nearly two tanks of gas a year compared with typical 4-speed automatics

- Engine designed with the future in mind - capable of super-clean PZEV emissions, hybrids, direct-injection and turbocharging

- Work begins on Ford's third-generation hybrid technology for future I-4 and V-6 engines

New 3.5-Liter V-6

The new 3.5-liter V-6 was designed to deliver the best combination of fuel economy, refinement and performance for the customer and be compact enough to fit into a variety of vehicles. The height and width of the engine is the same as the smaller displacement Duratec 30 V-6.

The engine produces 250 horsepower and 240 pound-feet of torque in its CUV [crossover utility vehicle] applications. It uses a dual-overhead cam valvetrain for peak power capability and smooth operation at high RPM. It incorporates intake variable cam timing to optimize fuel economy by adjusting valve timing for a smooth idle, optimal part-load driving and an impressively broad torque curve with good power.

In anticipation of future needs, the new V-6 has been designed to accommodate advanced technologies, including gasoline direct injection and turbo charging.

The engine will be built in the fall of 2006 at Ford's Lima (Ohio) Engine Plant.

6F 6-Speed Transaxle

Ford also underscored its leadership in fuel-saving transmissions with the reveal of a new 6-speed for the new Ford Edge and Lincoln Aviator. Ford is an industry leader in 6-speed transmissions with 24 nameplates already offered with the highly efficient technology.

Six-speed automatic transaxles improve performance and fuel economy. It is estimated that, for every 500,000 6-speeds - rather than traditional 4-speeds - fitted to vehicles, 12 million gallons of fuel can be saved annually (based on 25 mpg combined fuel economy for 15,000 miles).

The enhanced performance and fuel economy of the new 6F comes from a wide span of 6.04 between the transaxle's lowest and highest gear ratio. The high ratio span helps deliver improved fuel economy of up to 7 percent and improved sustained acceleration compared with a typical 4-speed automatic.

The new 6F will be fitted to the 3.5-liter V-6 in the Ford Edge and Lincoln Aviator. The combination delivers optimal fuel economy and powerful performance combined with smooth, refined and quiet shifts.

The new Ford 6F will be built at Ford's Van Dyke (Mich.) Transmission Plant.

More News on Hybrids

Ford also took another step toward delivering on its commitment of putting 250,000 hybrid vehicles a year on the road by 2010 with the announcement that engineering work already is under way on a third-generation hybrid transaxle - one developed using Ford's in-house hybrid expertise.

Engineered in Dearborn, the new hybrid transaxle will be capable of handling both 4-cylinder and 6-cylinder engines for future vehicles.

In addition, Ford announced that the Ford Escape Hybrid would debut this week as the first hybrid taxi carrying passengers throughout the five boroughs of New York City. Ford, the New York City Taxi & Limousine Commission and the Coalition for Smart Transportation will mark the milestone on Thursday.

Improved NVH and Refinement

The elimination of noise, vibration and harshness (NVH) was a particular target for the development team. Extensive use of CAE modeling on the transaxle case built a solid housing for the transaxle components.

Engineers used computer-aided analysis to determine exactly where strengthening ribs needed to be added to the casing to minimize radiated noise and vibration. CAE modeling also was used to add thickness to the case in appropriate areas for added strength.

In addition, the transaxle's three simple planetary gear sets are designed for robustness and use low-pinion pitch line velocities to reduce noise. All gears are cut using high-precision CNC hobbing, grinding and honing machines. The transfer and final drive gears are hard-treated for strength, and subsequently ground and honed to provide a more precise fit, thus reducing gear whine.

The 6F also features the first use of an off-axis pump for Ford. This package-enabler takes up much less space in the transaxle. Package efficiency is further enabled by the pump's chain drive. The pump porting also was optimized to improve NVH.

The 6F uses only plate clutches for each shift to deliver quiet, smooth shifts throughout the entire ratio span. In addition, the 6F uses a Ford proprietary control strategy that uses powerful adaptive algorithms. The 6F provides fast, responsive shifts throughout the operating range that are smooth yet crisp, which delivers an invigorating driving experience to the customer.

Factory Tested for Quality

To ensure the best possible shift quality, each 6F transaxle is bench tested at Ford's Van Dyke (Mich.) Transaxle Plant. There, the transaxle build quality is verified, detecting even minute variations in the manufacturing process.

Using a unique patent pending process, software programmed into the 6F's electronic controller individually trims and characterizes all solenoids and clutches to eliminate the variances that would normally lead to changes in shift feel, producing smooth, precisely controlled shifts that improve durability and customer satisfaction.

Power in a Compact, Modern Package

Ford's new V-6 produces 250 horsepower and 240 pound-feet of torque with a 3.5-liter displacement unit with a height and width that is the same as Ford's smaller Duratec 30 V-6. This enables Ford to install the engine in a wide variety of current and future products.

In developing the new engine, Ford engineers targeted excellent performance, fuel economy and low exhaust emissions. In addition, engineers designed the engine to work together in harmony with Ford's new 6F 6-speed automatic. By analyzing the transaxle and engine together, noise, vibration and harshness characteristics of the powertrain were optimized to ensure a quiet, trouble-free driving experience.

The all-new 3.5-liter V-6 architecture provides significant flexibility to incorporate additional engine technologies. The 3.5-liter engineering team included extra provisions to make upgrades relatively simple. These upgrades include such potential features as hybrid capability, gasoline direct injection and direct-injection turbo charging.

A Solid Foundation - Durability and NVH

Every world-class engine starts with a solid foundation. To optimize the base engine structure to provide outstanding durability and NVH, the lower-end design of the 3.5-liter engine features a forged-steel, fully counterweighted crankshaft with induction-hardened journals, fractured-split, powder metal-forged connecting rods and high-temperature alloy, cast aluminum pistons. These components are housed in a High Pressure Diecast (HPDC) aluminum cylinder block featuring six-bolt mains with cast in cast-over iron liners.

The engine's cylinder block design represents the first application of a high-pressure die-cast block for a V-configuration engine for Ford Motor Company. Ford chose HPDC over more conventional semi-permanent and sand casting processes because:

- Reduced raw material requirements (lower weight than if designed for conventional sand casting)

- Tighter casting process control capability
Better and more consistent casting qualities

- Elimination of reliance on casting processes that have byproducts requiring strict environmental controls

- Reduction of expensive post-casting processing (cleaning, heat treating, machining and assembly) requirements

- Ford deployed extensive CAE modeling to reduce lead-time, optimize die design and simulate critical process parameters to help ensure a consistent, robust casting.

- High Airflow, Optimized Combustion - Performance, Fuel Economy and Emissions

The 3.5-liter V-6's upper-end was designed as a system, all the way from the throttle body to the exhaust manifolds, to create the optimum flow for peak power and a broad torque curve. CAE analysis was used to fine-tune each component to deliver the required airflow without the need for intake flaps or butterfly valves in the system. Advanced throttle-control software enables precise tuning of engine response to fit the character of each vehicle application while setting the engine to run at its peak efficiency for optimal fuel economy.

The 3.5-liter V-6 uses a compact, lightweight dual-overhead cam valvetrain for peak power capability and smooth operation at high RPMs. The engine also incorporates intake variable cam timing (iVCT) to optimize valve timing for a smooth idle, optimal part-load driving and an impressively broad torque curve with good power. The iVCT system uses a hydraulically actuated spool valve that can rotate the intake camshafts up to 40 degrees within a half-second. A low-friction, roller-chain cam drive contributes to fuel efficiency.

Optimized Cylinder Head Produced with Flexible Machining

The aluminum cylinder heads in Ford's new V-6 are designed for high airflow and optimized combustion to support performance, fuel economy and low emissions. CAE was used extensively to develop the airflow and combustion system performance for this cylinder head design. This efficient combustion is enhanced by incorporating a centrally located spark plug and a high 10.3:1 compression ratio. The cylinder heads also were designed to accommodate fuel-efficient technology upgrades such as gasoline direct injection.

Low Emissions Capability

Ford's new 3.5-liter engine is PZEV capable right out of the box. Careful design consideration for the combustion system and catalysts create an engine that can meet stringent emissions standards without the need for expensive add-on technology.

The 3.5-liter V-6 is capable of achieving PZEV certification by delivering low cold-start emissions and enabling rapid catalyst light-off, which is a significant accomplishment for a larger displacement V-6 engine, says Tom McCarthy, engine systems manager for the 3.5-liter V-6 engine program. This is accomplished with low heat-loss exhaust manifolds and close-coupled catalysts for fast light off during cold start. Optimized fuel injector targeting minimizes cold-start emissions before the catalysts reach operating temperature.

3.5-Liter V-6 and 6F Automatic Technical Specifications

ENGINE

Type: 3.5 liter DOHC 24-valve V-6

Manufacturing Location: Lima Engine Plant, Ohio

Configuration: 60-degree V-6, aluminum block and heads

Intake Manifold: Composite, slit plenum

Exhaust Manifold: Cast iron

Crankshaft: Forged steel

Throttle Body: 65mm, electronic

Valvetrain: DAMB, 4 valves per cylinder, intake variable camshaft timing

Valve Diameter: Intake: 37mm Exhaust: 31 mm

Pistons: High temperature cast aluminum alloy with low-friction coated skirts, low-tension rings

Connecting Rods: Cracked-powder metal

Ignition: Pencil coil

Bore x Stroke: 3.6 x 3.4 in/92.5 x 86.7 mm

Displacement: 213 cu in/3.496 cc

Compression Ratio: 10.3:1

Horsepower: 250 at 6,250 rpm (estimated)

Horsepower per Liter: 71.5 (estimated)

Torque: 240 lb-ft at 4,500 rpm (estimated)

Redline: 6,700 rpm

Recommended Fuel: 87 Octane

Fuel Capacity: 20 gallons

Fuel Injection: Sequential multiport fuel injection

Oil Capacity: 5.5 quarts, with filter

Recommended Oil: GF4, 5W-20

TRANSMISSION

Type: 6-Speed Automatic

Gear Ratios

1st: 4.484:1

2nd: 2.872:1

3rd: 1.842:1

4th: 1.414:1

5th: 1.000:1

6th: 0.742:1

REV: 00034

The acronym PZEV stands for Partial Zero-Emission Vehicle. PZEV rated vehicles are supposed to produce 90% fewer emissions than the average new car and also have zero evaporative emissions.

http://www.americancarfans.com/news/2051110.002/2051110.002.Mini1L.jpg

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http://www.americancarfans.com/news/2051110.002/2051110.002.Mini4L.jpg

The lower-end design of Ford's new 3.5 liter V-6 engine features a forged-steel, fully counterweighted crankshaft with induction-hardened journals, fractured-split, powder metal-forged connecting rods and high-temperature alloy, cast-aluminum pistons that are all optimized for the base engine structure to provide outstanding durability and NVH. These components are housed in a High Pressure Diecast (HPDC) aluminum cylinder block featuring six-bolt mains with cast in cast-over iron liners.

http://www.americancarfans.com/news/2051110.002/2051110.002.Mini5L.jpg

Careful design consideration for the combustion system and catalysts create an engine that can meet stringent emissions standards without the need for expensive add-on technology.

http://www.americancarfans.com/news/2051110.002/2051110.002.Mini6L.jpg

Aluminum block, cylinder heads, valve covers, and oil pan.

http://www.americancarfans.com/news/2051110.002/2051110.002.Mini7L.jpg

http://www.americancarfans.com/news/2051110.002/2051110.002.Mini8L.jpg

Intake manifold

http://www.americancarfans.com/news/2051110.002/2051110.002.Mini9L.jpg

The new V-6 uses a High Pressure Diecast (HPDC) aluminum cylinder block, featuring six-bolt mains with cast in cast-over iron liners.

http://www.americancarfans.com/news/2051110.002/2051110.002.Mini10L.jpg

http://www.americancarfans.com/news/2051110.002/2051110.002.Mini11L.jpg

http://www.americancarfans.com/news/2051110.002/2051110.002.Mini12L.jpg

that last link doest work....

"gt500= 465 not 500. about 495 ft-lbs of tq. ur trying to down this car and you dont even know that?"

thats even more pathetic when a SC 4.6 will make over 480whp


"the 03/04 could run high 12s and the new gt500 is definatly faster than that car. in every aspect."

the 03/04 was actually more like 425HP so assuming Ford doesnt under rate the 06+ as much as that then we are still looking at a mid/high 12sec car. Just this time it dont handle near as good.



EDIT: WTF does a 3.5 have to do with teh GT500? If anythign the 3.5 SHOULD have come out like 5yrs ago now its just seen as Ford finaly catching up with everyone else.

Only problem is, I would not want to run any 1/4 miles with a suspension set up for a road course.
That’s true and the same could be said about running a road course with a suspension set up to 1/4mile. Its just too bad Ford doesn't let you pick options like they did when the Mustang was first introduced. If they did I would be in line right now for one with a 4.6DOHC, IRS, T56, 373s, bottom line interior, and light weight body panels (if they have these for the Miata they should for the Mustang).

That link is dead.
oops here it should work now
http://www.themsj.com/media/paper207/news/2005/11/07/Alumni/Ford-Mustang.Project.Leader.Hau.ThaiTang-1048480.shtml?norewrite&sourcedomain=www.themsj.com

and MANY places have laughed at people that are asking to buy a spot on the list for MSRP, so they will be in the range of 50-56k when they come out depending on the MSRP