Cel...yay

I was driving home on Thanksgiving and out of the corner of my eye I see my CEL pop on. I just got it scanned and it came back P0420. I look that up and see it means the catalyst system efficency for bank 1 is below threshold. Can someone tell me what this means? I hope it's not expensive.


Marc

Marc, basically it's saying your pass side catalytic converter is not doing it's job. My SIL had that same code on her 2003 rodeo 3.2L right about the same time one of her IMG's went out :uhoh: . The downstream O2 sensors p/up these codes (that's all they do) Never came back after dealer IMG replacement. I assumed it was from the oscillating fuel trim caused by the IMG vac leak. Clear it out & see it it repeats. Hopefully not!
G/luck
Joel

Rodeo02, thanks for the reply. After a bit of research last night, I figured it was the catalytic converter. Very disappointing. I have 79000 miles, I thought cats. lasted longer than that. From some things I read on the wire, there seems to be an outside chance it is an O2 sensor, unlikely though.

I also read it may be due to an exhaust leak. My IMG's were changed out last year, so hopefully that's not the problem. I pulled the negative cable on the battery to clear the codes. I anticipate it comming back.

Isn't there a longer warranty that covers this, even for second owners? I hope so at least. This probably isn't going to be cheap.

Marc

HMMMMMMM, so I just googled Isuzu warranty and came up with this...

http://www.isuzu.com/owners_warranty_before2000.jsp

There it says 8/80000 for a catalytic converter and it says nothing about original owner. That would be great. *That's all I want for Christmas, free repairs.



*Disclaimer-- That is not true, I want a lot for Christmas.

I think the warranty on the cat is 80k

Ryan, even for a second owner?

Yes- cats carry their own federal emissions warranty :naughty: ! Funny how shops and stealerships rarely fill you in on that little tid-bit. Bad part is, they will probably sock you for the piping assembly attached to it. OEM would be $$$.

G/luck
Joel

Ryan, even for a second owner?I would think that a Federal Emissons Warranty would trump the Isuzu "second owner clause".

sweet, well then I hope the light comes back on. I will go down there and demand a new cat. and they will like it. Luckily there is still an Isuzu dealer around here, well semi-close, about 20 minutes away.


Marc

Well, I did some driving today and the CEL hasn't come back on yet. I don't know what to think because I am at 79100. Warranty is over soon.


Marc

When that same code came up on my SIL's 2003, I cleared it with my cheapy reader from harbor freight tools and it never came back. The code popped up on her during a (loooong, hi speed) trip from E.Aurora NY to Kentucky and back. Like I say, it happend during the same time frame as a bad IMG, so I dunno if that was related or not. If your truck hasent been on a long hywy run in awhile, maybe the cats kind of clean themselves out causing this code to come in & clear?!?!? Call the dealer to see what they say. We've been treated pretty well by Kirk @ Towne Isuzu. Cant hurt to make a call.
G/luck
Joel

yea, Kirk is a good guy. I cleared the code and it was a long(45miles) highway drive. Still not back, but I may take it on a long drive soon to see what happens.

Marc

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2001-HONDA-PASSPORT-ISUZU-RODEO-EXHAUST-PARTS_W0QQitemZ8018127585QQcategoryZ33630QQssPageN ameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Who wants to email this guy to see if he will take this all apart and sell the individual peices?

Good find! If that was a 2002-2004, that would be $800 worth of O2 sensors alone!!

G/luck
Joel

I am very tempted to buy that. I will need a "Y" pipe soon and I may need the cat. Shipping will probably be a lot.

How difficult would it be to install that stuff? Is there any cutting involved? I would still need the hardware, is that a dealer only order?

Marc

I would contact the guy to see if he will unbolt a couple more things and it looks like he has a bunch of other junk in the box too.

Email him to let him know that parts you want. I think 110 + shipping is a fair price the 2 cats, all of the 02 sensors and that big pipe.

So far so good, it has not come back on. I am going to take it for a ride on Saturday and see if that causes it to come back. I can't figure out why it came on, but now won't.

Well. I took it for a long drive and it came back on. It was off all week with short trips. Is there anything to that (only comming on during longer trips)?

I will call Isuzu on Monday.

Marc

Marc, I'm guessing, but the ECM probably needs to see a long period of steady speed and accelerator position (even exhaust flow), engine temp, & steady readings from the upstream O2 sensors before it will even look at the rear O2 sensors. Just some thoughts. To rule out a *bad* O2 sensor, it might be worth your while to swap the two rear sensors to see if the problem follows the cat, or the sensor. I did a similar thing when one of the upstreamers went bad on my 2002.
G/luck
Joel

Thanks for the reply Rodeo02

I've got a couple of questions

In that link Amigo2k provided for the exhaust system, will it work in my rodeo. ie.. will it fit a 99 and is it for an automatic? The auction ended, but I may try to call the guy and see if he will ship it as it did not sell.

How hard is an exhaust system to replace? I mean, it's just bolts to loosen and some hangers. Time and penetrating oil should do the trick, even though it didn't on the shocks. The exhaust is easier to get to and if need be I can cut.

Marc

I'd call a parts place and ask if the p/n's for the Y-pipe assembly are the same for the years in question. Exhaust work usually is a royal PITA. Frozen/rusted fasteners will most likely have to be cut, torched or split off. It's harder to do while lying on your back!

G/luck
Joel

Just got back from the Isuzu dealer and wow, this is not going to be cheap.

I think I was wrong about the warranty.

Federal emissions is 8/80,000.

My car came with California emissions, which is 7/70,000.

Please don't ask me to explain the difference, but there is one, I just don't know what it is.

Price to fix, $1400, for one catalytic converter and labor. The service writer is going to investigate the warranty, but I am sure after looking online that it is the 7/70k for my car. He is also going to look into a cheaper alternative for me too. I can not believe this thing is so much.

I am waiting for him to call me back with warranty info, hopefully it is good news, but unlikely.


Marc

I think a Cat at Jegs is like 150 bucks? toss in an hour for labor and your looking at 250.

Marc, my 2002 manual states the same thing: 7/70 for Cali, 8/80 for Fed. No explanation as to why the difference?!? :eek7: Either way, if the dealer cant do it for you for something like <$400, I'd get some estimates from shops that do exhaust work. Have you changed around the rear O2 sensors to see it the problem follows the sensor? I think they can also tell with an IR heat gun if the cat is working or not. I think I would sell my 2002 before I dumped $1400+ into ONE side of the exhaust system!! :disappoin

G/luck
Joel

Marc, I did a quick search, check this site out: http://www.all-catalytic-converters.com/catalytic/part.php?partid=1321&year=1999 I'd be sure to eliminate the O2 sensor as the culpret first, then worry about changing the cat.

G/luck
Joel

Thanks for the link Joel. If the warranty falls through, I am going to put this off for a few months. The problem about checking the O2 sensors now is the wet ground and cold air. I may try and do this though. Maybe this is something I tackle in the spring. I'd have to get under there and see if it is something I think I can do, plus I could use a new "Y" pipe.

I may have to check out muffler shops as well. Maybe it is time to upgrade the exhaust system. I have better things to spend the money, but don't we all.

Thanks all,
Marc

Ha, I finally got this taken care of 3.5 months later.

Anyway, I won the auction for the two cats, 4 O2 sensors and the "Y" pipe. Total with shiping was ~$250. Not bad, actually real good. All this stuff from Isuzu would have been over 2 grand. That's not including labor. I was going to attempt to install this myself, but it was difficult to get to where the cats meet the engine. Very tight. I paid to have it done, $400. Not bad. I still made out well because most of my exhaust is new now.

I had them put on all the "new" O2 sensors and I kept the old ones. The one that was after the troubled cat is covered in gunk. I may post pics. It looks rough. My problem may have been a bad O2 sensor, but in reality my cats were almost done.

My feeling is the oil burning caused this and that angers me. Oil kills catalytic converters. These things should last longer than 80k. Even though I feel I got off cheap, I should not have had to replace this stuff.


Marc.

link to post on the wire (http://www.4x4wire.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=858557&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1)



here's a pic of all four sensors. The last on the right is from after the cat on the passenger side. That sensor is filthy.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/544000-544999/544574_8.jpg

The 3 on the left look identical to how nasty all 4 of mine were after 150k miles; knocking hard on wood, haven't had to replace the Cat's.

Was your cat clogged? You must burn a LOT of oil.

The 3 on the left look identical to how nasty all 4 of mine were after 150k miles; knocking hard on wood, haven't had to replace the Cat's.

Was your cat clogged? You must burn a LOT of oil.


That's the thing, I think I burn less than most. I don't know, I am stumped. I wish I would of asked to kep the cat. I'd like to cut it open and see what the inside looks like. I bet it was stuffed with gunk.

Hopefully all is well now, I was sick of staring at my CEL for the last few months. Maybe a new muffler in the future. My Rodeo is quieter now too. I had a leak in the "Y" pipe I believe. I hope my gas mileage goes up now.


marc

I went to reset the code today and instantly it popped back on. P0134, no activity front sensor passenger side.

How can this be? the sensor is new. All of them are new. Is it possible the sensor is bad? Should I swap in one of the older ones?

The guy at autozone said it will take 40 start/stop cycles to reset and I should be fine. I am not sure if this code was present before I had the work done.

I am extremely bummed out about this, any ideas?


marc

Have you gone at least 50-70 miles since you put the new sensors in?

If not, double check the wire connection on that side, and keep driving for another day or so, if at all possible, try to get on the highway where you can go more then 50mph.

My code came back on as well, not even a full day after we put the new sensors in, got irritated and said screw it, lone-behold 2 days later the CEL went off on it's own, and knock on wood, hasn't returned.

Wanted to add, yes, your gas mileage should go back up - but here's the thing, the truck has to relearn everything - sounds funny I know - but it'll take at least another 100 miles to start getting good mileage again. It has to reset it's ratio's.

My gas mileage had gotten down to as low as 13-14mpg town/16mpg highway before I finally had enough and started digging; a good week & a half after replacing the O2sensors and spark plugs, my gas mileage went back up to 17mpg in town on one tank, and 18mpg on another.

Doesn't sound like a lot, but so far it's added back about $30 to my wallet in just 2 weeks.

good to know. I tried to get underneeth to see if it was plugged in all the way. Too hot though. I am going to check tomorrow. Hopefully it goes off by itself.


marc

I changed the O2 sensor on bank 1 sensor 1. The sensor that was giving me the code today. Undid the battery and CEL came back. I go to AZ to get it read and the code comes back P0154. This tells me Bank 2 sensor 1 is not functioning.

This is driving me crazy.

Tomorrow I will switch that one out and then I totally expect the CEL to come back on and tell me something different.

I asked the guy at AZ if O2's from my 99 and the 2001 Passport had compatible sensors and he looked it up and they are. But, I've got a CEL from two of them so far.

I wonder if my car was started with the O2's disconnected at the shop. I honestly have no idea what is going on.

I want to beat the oil out of my Rodeo right now,
marc

Marc, I know isuzu had a tendancy to make changes, even mid year, but I know the upstream sensors are different from the downstream sensors on 1998-2001 rodeo 3.2's. 2002+ used 4 ($$$) identical/interchangeable O2 sensors. Maybe you have them mixed up?

Joel

Marc, I know isuzu had a tendancy to make changes, even mid year, but I know the upstream sensors are different from the downstream sensors on 1998-2001 rodeo 3.2's. 2002+ used 4 ($$$) identical/interchangeable O2 sensors. Maybe you have them mixed up?

Joel


I did not know that. Interesting. I will look into it in the morning.

this place says the 4 sensors are the same (http://replacement.autopartswarehouse.com/parts/autopartswarehouse/wizard.jsp?year=1999&make=IS&model=ROD-V6-004&category=All&part=Oxygen%20Sensor&dp=true)

Oops.. Sorry Marc! you are right. Looks like 1996+ used 4 interchangeable sensors. It was just the p/n of the sensor that may have changed thru the years.

Joel

Oops.. Sorry Marc! you are right. Looks like 1996+ used 4 interchangeable sensors. It was just the p/n of the sensor that may have changed thru the years.

Joel


that's cool, but there is still something odd going on under there. Back under there tomorrow, hopefully I can get to this sensor.

The idiots at Monroe wouldn't answer any questions without me paying them for diagnostics. I just gave them $400 the other day. yea, I'll be going back there. I wish I could of had this work done at my mechanic.

marc

replaced the sensor assocviated with the PO154. On my way home the CEL came on again.

I was too excited to wait to get it read, so I went right away. I was guessing it was going to be sensor two on one of the banks.

I was partially correct. There were two codes, both number two sensors were throwing a cell now. When the guy said I had two different codes I said what they were for. He thought I was psychic. Not really, but he was helpfull.

I've decided to buy a new O2 sensor tomorrow as one of the remaining old ones looks bad. I will use the other remaining old ones in the other spot. The one sensor(bank 1 sensor 2) looks very hard to get to. That one may give me trouble. I hope this works.

I am going to take the old sensors I got on ebay and throw them into lake Erie after I stomp on them and curse them.

Is $50 a good price for an OEM O2 sensor?

Oh, I have another question. What is the sensor that goes into the duct that leads into the throttle? I broke mine today (it may hold though). Hopefully it's expensive.

marc

The Rodeo may be out of the dog house!!!

Replaced the last two sensors today and on the drive back to my apartment... NO CEL. Awesome. We'll see what happens now, but I feel good about this. I guess the other sensors are bad or not compatible. The whole ride home I was nervous.

For anyone that changes O2's in the future, get the sensor socket. IOt makes this job so easy. The hardest one to deal with is bank 1 sensor 2. That's because the conector is burried. Definately use anti seize as well.

Also, anyone have an answer to what the sensor ius that plugs into the air duct?

There may be an end to this madness,
marc

have any photos or sceen photos of the manual of said sensor?

No, sorry no pic. So far it seems to be working.

I'll try and describe it though:

Inbetween the MAF and the throttle there is an air duct (plastic tube). By the throttle there is a hose that comes out and goes to the crankcase (feeds fresh air into the crankcase). The sensor plugs into the back side of the duct and then a connector plugs into the sensor. It is pretty small and goes unnoticed.

marc

..anyone have an answer to what the sensor ius that plugs into the air duct?

Yes. That is the intake air temp (IAT) sensor.

Joel

Yes. That is the intake air temp (IAT) sensor.

Joel


I thought it may be something along that line. What does it do and what for?


CEL is still off. I'm very happy.


Thanks,
marc

I thought it may be something along that line. What does it do and what for?

It does just what the name implies. Measures the temp of the air comming through the intake. The computer will use that along with the coolant temp sensor and O2 sensors to adjust the amount of fuel to use. A more modern and precice version of a choke.

ahhh, it is still of and I can get my inspection. I am going in, but I feel as if my rear brakes are going to cause me to fail.

I am still waiting to see if I have a MPG increase. I hope I do, if not there will be a new thread.