sorry, I have to...

I hate some animal rights activists. They give some good ones a bad name.

I hate animal rights people who think they are doing good by flaming people who eat meat. How many times when you were a kid did your mom yell at you for cleaning your room? How many times did you do it? Same principle.

I hate PETA. With a passion. For example, they raided a dog show (for showing competition best of breed sort of thing), they released as many dogs as they could, one ran out on the street, got hit by a car, died, and the spokesperson justified it by saying "at least it died free". Fuck that.

I watch the discovery channel and cheer when a lion takes down a gazelle. It's what the lion eats. He has no choice.

All this being said, I DO have a choice. I am a vegetarian. I don't eat meat because I don't feel it appropriate to raise animals in the way we do for our own benefit. However, my own pet carnivores eat raw meat, they HAVE to eat meat to live. I don't. I am quite healthy without the meat.

Maddox's views on vegetarianism are flawed. He says that vegetarians cause MORE destruction by the death of the animals in the grain fields. Cows eat more grain and then we in turn eat them. So we kill the animals in the fields, AND the cow. Think about it.

So I wish the pussy vegetarians of the world would shut the fuck up, they're not helping. They are very ignorant. They're doing no good by blasting their views on other people. It's those people who cause meat eaters to dismiss everything a "quiet" vegetarian has to say as a "rant".

That's about it. Lock or delete this thread if you'd like mods. I just wanted to release some stress :)

i eat meat. however, i watched the vids posted and i've read the book Fast Food Nation which goes deep into the conditions livestock are faced with, in all honesty i think it's terrible the way they treat these animals. to sear an animals beak off with a hot blade or to castrate a cow, while the animals are conscious, both without any type of sedative or anesthesia is horrible. regardless of the fact that it's an animal and is raised for food, you don't have to make it's short life a total living hell. i don't really know what to think, i'm conflicted on the issue.

Yeah that peta thread made me wanna go out and shoot a cow and a few deer and chickens in spite of them...

Can't remember who said it but they were absolutely right, if we dont eat the cows or chickens then they pretty much would not exist.

I'm pretty sure jesus would eat chicken if he were alive, i mean hell...he drank wine...

ok one thing the vegans arent thinking about, maybe two, anyway.

If it werent for the consumption of meat, particularly the BRAINS, we upright walking humans would still be diggin in the swamps and dumb as hell, eating plants and slugs and tree bark."coughcough"

From this consuption of these brains, specific proteens and enzyms formed our beutiful minds as they are today. Now i know some vegans and they'll argue all day about this and that.
the fact is most vegans are aneimic and or malnutritioned(dont even know it). the reason I know this is that my wife is a RN, who speciallizes in dietary nutrition and we've descussed this topic-o-plenty, I hav three girls, they thought they'd be a vegan but they were always hungry and gained some exess weight.
So I guess to each his own, because not even anthrax will keep me from a steak! good eat'n folks!

I guess if you like animals more than your own existanz, keep bitching PETA!, and leave all the meat for us civalized humans who like to kill and devour the flesh of others. Dont they eat dog in Korea?Doberman i think. LOL! I'd eat humans flesh if it came down to living or dieing on some mountain(like the plane crash waybeack) top.
As a mater of fact I'm scarfing some beef as I type with my good greasy ass fingers.YUM YUM!
I cant function with just carbs bloating me down and feeling weak and powerless.

I eat meat.

I'll probably get flamed for this but I think people who think animals have as many rights as we do are just wrong. Don't get me wrong...some things people do to animals are terrible...I only have a problem with the way we treat animals if they are in pain.

The truth is animals do NOT have equal rights. They ARE lesser beings. Animals not only put on this earth to give us company, but to be eaten also.

xeroinfinity: Remember there is a difference between vegeterians and vegans. Vegetarians don't eat meat, vegans don't eat any animal products at all (ie milk, cheese eggs etc).

Damn straight that animals are not equal beings compared to humans. There is a difference between my cat/dog and the steak on my plate. My cat/dog were not bread to be slaughter and eaten. Sure there are many a cattle ranchers who do not treat their cows appropiatly but then again there are many a parents who don't treat their children accordingly. As humans we have teeth that are designed to chew/tear meat and our bodies require specific nutrients that can only be obbtained from eating meat. I'm a big fan of organic beef/poultry, but it is way too expensive to eat all the time and is also hard to get a hold of. This is a debate that has gone on forever and will continue to do so. Peace-

I eat meat.

I'll probably get flamed for this but I think people who think animals have as many rights as we do are just wrong. Don't get me wrong...some things people do to animals are terrible...I only have a problem with the way we treat animals if they are in pain.

The truth is animals do NOT have equal rights. They ARE lesser beings. Animals not only put on this earth to give us company, but to be eaten also.
I definitely agree, but did you watch the vid? especially the part where they castrated a cow with what appeared to be hedge clippers? yeah, that's some of the most termendous pain i could fathom. there's a difference between doing what has to be done and just having an indifference to the suffering of a living thing. a bullet to the head or even slicing the throat are humane methods of killing. i believe all living things should be treated with some degree of respect. to give an animal a fatal blow, without actually killing it, and then leaving it to suffer and die on it's own, as seen in the vid, just bothers me, man. i'm not pushing for people to stop eating meat, i love eating meat, i just which there were more stringent rules mandating more humane methods in the slaughter of animals.

just think if we weren't the top rung on the food chain and we were raised as livestock to some other superior being and we were considered "lesser beings" or "animals" without "Equal Rights". How would you feel about being castrated with hedge clippers or having you nose seared off by a hot blade?


Pbking, what's the difference between a cow and a dog? could a cow not be somoenes pet feasibly? what about countries that eat dog, would you agree with dogs being treated this way? watch the vid and think of the animals as your own pet. it's kinda heart breaking.

Pbking, what's the difference between a cow and a dog? could a cow not be somoenes pet feasibly? what about countries that eat dog, would you agree with dogs being treated this way? watch the vid and think of the animals as your own pet. it's kinda heart breaking.

What about countries that eat dog? Well that's their culture. How about in Peru women are force-fed(not unlike duck for fois-gois) so that they can be "more suitable for marriage" as in their culture if you're not fat then you are seen as not being taken care of by your family. Sure a cow could be somebody's pet, but you really think because they have a cow as a pet that they will think anyless of people who eat beef(I certinatly hope not)? I know all about how cattle is raised and slaughtered, i don't need to watch this video, and frankly I don't really care. You ever hear about kobe beef? It is a form of beef originally from japan where the a calf is raised in a sling so the muscels(sp?) grow to a form that makes a very tender/wonderfully tasting cut of meat. Or how about pigs how are raised? They are fed a mixture of their own waste with parts of other slaughtered pigs so it will fatten them up. Absoltuley disgusting, but tastes damn good. This is a buisness, the animals are raised this way because it is much more economical than more "humane" ways. Ranchers get more product with less overhead and it's all about the money. Sure it's somewhat "wrong," but do you see anything being done about it in a serious manner? All the activist's are seen as raving left-wing hippies(and they bring that on themselves through their methods of protest/action.) Maybe if people were to take a serious attempt at reforming the cattle insudtry then something would be done, not just a bunch of tree-huger's going "meat is murder!!" etc... I honestly don't really care where my meat comes from or how it was raised as long as it's got a USDA stamp on it telling me it's safe to eat it. Peace-

Ya i know theres a differance, between vegans and Vegetarians , but they both have the same bad idealogies about animals and meat. The dumb vegies i know eat fish and eggs, thats meat. And i see vagons eating cake, its got eggs and milk, am I right here?

Either way I'll still eat whatevers on my plate, including fingers that reach for my steak. :lol2:
No dog or cat meat please. :nono: I mean I've eaten aligator, shark, rattlesnake, octopus, squid, no sushi(mercuries bad), i dont eat caviar.
Just about all the vegatables i can, except for those damn lima beans and beets :puke: :puke:

So to eat thier own, i mean each thier own. And i dont mind if they dont like meat or dairy products, just more for me a my small army here.

So I wish the pussy vegetarians of the world would shut the fuck up, they're not helping. They are very ignorant. They're doing no good by blasting their views on other people. It's those people who cause meat eaters to dismiss everything a "quiet" vegetarian has to say as a "rant".

:cheers:


My family is hindu, they're vegetarian by choice of following religion. i'm not, i'll eat anything and everything taht looks apetizing. there's my choice. and they're cool about it, too. my dad thinks PETA is an organization that just wastes money. he figures, "hey, lets make money to save the animals! we could care less about every other shithole we're in" stance is a bit retarded. as do i. thanks for this post, that 'do u eat meat' thread got me hungry. atleast this thread gave me back respect for those with opinions about eating meat.

oh, i gotta add, a buddy of mine Harlan Herb Dube (pronounced Doobie... trust me, he IS a conversation piece) is a vegetarian. In middle school, someone "dared" him to give up meat for 5 days, thinking he couldn't do it. he's in his second year of college, and hasn't eaten meat since. when asked why not, he replies "i just... don't have a desire to go back to eating meat... i dunno, i'm not against anything. i just don't want it."

good post pb. i understand and agree completely, especially with your point on the activists, they mostly go at the wrong people, it's not the consumers fault. like i said i eat meat often and i do definitely think people are intended to have meat in their diet. If someone felt really strongly about the conditions of livestock, not eating meat doesn't help anything . one (more) person not buying beef, ultimately, isn't gonna do shit. Like i said i'm conflicted on the whole situation. i have no idea what the right way to resolve it is, i just know i don't like it, that's all i can really say.

*phew!*

There are so many ideas here that I would like to debate. But again, it would just be dismissed as a vegan rant.

But I'll try anyway. Remember, this is the way *I* see the world. I am not pushing it on ANYBODY. Do whatever the fuck you want. Just be open minded that there are other mentalities in this world. You don't have to accept or embrace them, just be mindful of them. And that goes for everything, not just vegetarianism.

"Can't remember who said it but they were absolutely right, if we dont eat the cows or chickens then they pretty much would not exist."

I am ok with animals (those raised for food) just not existing. We spay and neuter our pets so they can't reproduce. Should we stop this type of procedure and just kill the puppies and kittens as they come? The ones that can't find homes? We are just preventing their existence. Or, a more human example, without touching abortion: how about all the sperm that don't make it to the egg? How about all the eggs our mothers had shed before our own got fertilized? Is that a crime that they didn't get a chance to exist?

"If it werent for the consumption of meat, particularly the BRAINS, we upright walking humans would still be diggin in the swamps and dumb as hell, eating plants and slugs and tree bark."coughcough"

From this consuption of these brains, specific proteens and enzyms formed our beutiful minds as they are today. Now i know some vegans and they'll argue all day about this and that."

I don't disagree with this. My own research shows that humans would not have evolved without consuming meat. This is how I figure it, humans are by nature lazy. I don't mean sit on our asses all day playing xbox, I mean we like to expend as little energy as possible to get the end result. It was easier for early man to hunt down a buffalo that basically raised itself rather than spend months of cultivating and then harvesting of plant matter. You also need to eat more vegetation to get the same amount of energy as a smaller amount of meat. It just made sense back in the day.

"the fact is most vegans are aneimic and or malnutritioned(dont even know it)"

I'd say some, maybe even a good chunk, not necessarily most. There are more and more resources out there for aspiring veggies to learn to eat healthy on a veggie based diet. I have been a vegetarian for going on 6 years. I know my iron is low, but it has been on the low side even when I did eat meat. It is in a natural range for my personal body. All my other nutrients are at about the right levels. I am an aspiring nutritionist myself, mostly specializing in animal nutrition, but I have learned about human nutrition ad nauseum. It's very possible to be healthy on a plant based diet. It just takes a little work. And let's face it, a lot of meat eaters out there don't exactly eat the healthiest themselves.

"So I guess to each his own, because not even anthrax will keep me from a steak!"

I think it's BSE you're thinking about :)

"The truth is animals do NOT have equal rights. They ARE lesser beings."

This I am still split about. I recognize that animals don't have the same rights as us, they have a different thought process from us. They have different motivations, different "views on the world" (I use this term very loosely). For me though, this is irrelevant. I just don't feel right putting an animal through a torturous life for my dinner when it's not difficult to eat a plant based meal. Again, my choice.

"Remember there is a difference between vegeterians and vegans"

Yep, vegetarians do not eat flesh. You can have a lacto-ovo, a lacto, or an ovo vegetarian. Lacto meaning milk, ovo meaning egg. Vegans generally do not eat anything that comes from an animal. This includes eggs, milk, white sugar, gelatin, and leather.

"As humans we have teeth that are designed to chew/tear meat and our bodies require specific nutrients that can only be obbtained from eating meat"

Again, there is a LOT of debate on our physiology being appropriate for meat. Our teeth actually look more like herbivore teeth, just with slightly larger canines. The canines I think were adaptations from thousands of years ago when we did begin to eat meat. They are just remnants from those times. Some food for thought. It's not conclusive by any means. Nor is the stance that we are appropriate for meat. It is all speculation even amongst the scientific community.

"just think if we weren't the top rung on the food chain"

I do agree we are on the top of the food chain. But only because we are intelligent enough to overpower an animal by mechanical means. Look at us, we're pussies. No way in hell could we take down a hungry lion by ourselves if we had iq's of 30 :P

"Maybe if people were to take a serious attempt at reforming the cattle insudtry then something would be done"

There actually is quite a bit being done. Animal folk are trying, very hard. Lawyers, rescues, general population, pet owners, kid owners, truck drivers, business people, they're all trying to change things. There are a LOT of politics involved in reforming laws and regulations to animal welfare (notice I said welfare and not rights?) I learned very early on though that the videos people like PETA show are fully propaganda. I doubt ALL factory farms are how they show. I'm sure there are some like that, but most definitely not the majority. Most aren't TERRBILE, but they're definitely not ideal (given the circumstances).

"Ya i know theres a differance, between vegans and Vegetarians , but they both have the same bad idealogies about animals and meat. The dumb vegies i know eat fish and eggs, thats meat. And i see vagons eating cake, its got eggs and milk, am I right here?"

I can see why you're saying what you do, but it's not necessarily fair. I do see a lot of people, mostly younger chicks, who are all into the vegetarianism, but damn that fish sandwhich looks good. I call these kinds of people "poser veggies". Either you're veg or not. However, not eating one meat group and cutting back meat consumption does make a little bit of a difference. I am an ovo-vegetarian. I do sometimes say I'm vegan because it's RARE that I eat animal products. I don't drink milks, and rarely eat eggs by themselves. I don't eat gelatin, and I don't use white sugar. However, if it's in something else, like pie, I'll have a bit, as long as there is no meat in it. Veggies are not perfect. I don't expect them to be. When I got sick a couple months ago, my friend gave me soup that I later found out had chicken fat in it. Meh, my life goes on. Shit happens.



I think that's it. Again, I'm not ranting. I'm just *hopefully* opening your eyes to a different way of thinking. And like I said before, I don't expect ANYBODY to live by what I say, just read it, and say "huh, I have learned more about this world today" with an open mind.

:)

jabby_jabbys jabby tonight.LOl
I might hav been the one who said the anthraxia thing but i meant mad cow desease, my baaad...

Vegans generally do not eat anything that comes from an animal. This includes eggs, milk, white sugar, gelatin, and leather....

They really dont eat leather? hahaha! I see the piont you are geting at.

So would an iron supplement be forbidon for the vegan/vegaterian ??? i wonder... meat pie......hum?/... I'm hungry after all this talk about fooooodd! damn! Nice chattin with ya jabby

hahahah, i KNEW someone would be a smartass about the leather thing. I reread it afterwards and said "damn, someone is going to think about eating leather" :D

Iron supplements are perfectly ok. As far as I know, they result purely from chemical reactions. I have taken them before, and find them pointless, they didn't help me at all. Yes, I'm pale, and my skin is somewhat translucent, but I've always been like that. I'm also quite thin, dropped a shitload of weight when I went vegetarian , but I'm down to a good weight for my frame. I'm a pussycat, but take zero interest in gaining muscle mass. As for meat pie, no dice :D

at the risk of taking too far a tangent....

someone mentioned that it isn't the consumer's fault for the suffering that factory animals go through before slaughter.
(if it's the suffering that is the big concern, if we make a move that livestock for meat is kept in 5* conditions then sedately put to sleep does that make eating meat ok?)

as of now, the biggest buyer of beef in the US is McDonalds. The biggest buyer of chicken is KFC. Not surprisingly, the second biggest buyer of chicken is Mcdonalds. These two corporations have in their grasp the power to change the whole way beef+chicken is raised and slaughtered in the US. If you want to make a stance about cruelty to livestock, raise it with them. To an extent, we can only buy what we is given to us to buy. Someone else here said that they would love to buy well treated organic meat if only it were more widely available and at a more reasonable price (after all, economics state that if more people want/buy/produce something, the cheaper it becomes). Thing is, the big companies (McD and KFC) want cheap, who gives a damn meat, which the regular consumer is also 'forced' to buy.

People don't really think that we can't give the cows painkillers.

1) They're animals. Painkillers might not work for them.
2) We're going to eat them later. I doubt its healthy to digest painkillers.

lol..... I love meat...all sorts, Hell I raise chickens... Eat them too. Fresh meat is tha best....Ever ripped off a roosters head after it spured one of your children????... Ha ha pay backs are hell...But that rooster shure tasted good roasted.....I cant live without meat.......

Yeah, THAT was a useful comment :rolleyes:

"why can't weeee be freindsss, why can't weee be friendss...."

I have a shirt that says "People for the Eating of Tasty Animals" and I've gotten some dirty go to hell looks from people at the mall eating salads.

Anyway, I love meat, I eat meat, I'll keep eating meat, and I don't plan to stop eating meat. If you want to eat apples for the rest of your life, fine by me. Just don't even think about trying to tell me I'm wrong for eating what I eat.

As for animals being treated poorly, umm don't think so. I've worked on a farm raising chickens for KFC. These chickens live in houses that have heaters to keep them warm in the winter. As for the summer time, they have fans, several hundred gallon water coolers, and a fogger system. They can also get a drink or eat 24 hours a day because the feed and water lines keep going.

As for the argument that they aren't happy...I've seen a chicken eat fresh shit of another chicken. When a water line breaks, it creates a muddy pool of dirt and shit. These chickens just jump into it and play around. When a chicken dies, the other chickens will go and eat it and other things.

When they're rounded up and taken to the slaughter house, their heads are cut off. It's short, simple, and pretty painless if you ask me.

They get heaters in the summer? Dayum!

They get heaters in the summer? Dayum!

I meant winter, my bad.

I know, just decided to be an ass about it. To be on topic, nothing nobody can say will make me stop eating meat. Meat is good. I don't mind vegtarians, they can live right next to me for all I care. I'm not gonna go out on a campaign about how meat is healthy and good and not eating it is a sin and such. Show me the same respect. Creating threads like "If you eat Meat..." etc. is like the KKK of Vegans lol.

And good for you!

I don't mind vegtarians, they can live right next to me for all I care. I'm not gonna go out on a campaign about how meat is healthy and good and not eating it is a sin and such. Show me the same respect. Creating threads like "If you eat Meat..." etc. is like the KKK of Vegans lol.

dude, did you even read my posts? if you did, it doesnt seem you understand what im talking about.

i don't campaign. i live my life the way i want to live my life. i resent that you have a separation between veggies and meat eaters. my not eating meat does not make me who i am. it is a part of me, it is not me. my faimly eats meat. my boyfriend eats meat. most of my friends eat meat. if i only associated with veggies, id be very lonely and sad. and i pity anyone who will not have a friend who is a veggie.

and no, that sarcastic post was NOT directed at you. it was directed at karmacae.

dude, did you even read my posts? if you did, it doesnt seem you understand what im talking about.

i don't campaign. i live my life the way i want to live my life. i resent that you have a separation between veggies and meat eaters. my not eating meat does not make me who i am. it is a part of me, it is not me. my faimly eats meat. my boyfriend eats meat. most of my friends eat meat. if i only associated with veggies, id be very lonely and sad. and i pity anyone who will not have a friend who is a veggie.

and no, that sarcastic post was NOT directed at you. it was directed at karmacae.

No I understood. I agree with you. I believe people have the right to choose if they want to eat meat or not. And it's true, it SHOULDN'T control who you are. But I'm just saying, people like that are just stupid, and create a stereotype about Vegans/Veggies. So basically, I just re-wrote (poorly) what you said.

Oh, ok then. I'll delete that one.

PS. I've got not a clue what I was yammering at in my other posts. Excuse my el-stupido-grande.

Fair enough.

I just found it offensive that people are all like "I love meat, veggies are idiots, they should just shut the fuck up". It's an even bigger smack in the face when they say it RIGHT AFTER I say that I'm not a veggie-thumping vegetarian. That I tend to keep it to myself because its just a diet preference, not much else. People posting like you did is the exact same thing that those asshole veggies do.

If that made any sense at all.... I need sleep :)

Yeah, I get it. I didn't mean it to come across like that. I meant that it's not like I've been condemned for eating meat, so why do people need to campaign against what I do? That's all I mean.

BTW, lemme ask you something. You're on a farm, one of your chickens has died from natural causes. It's winter, and the chicken is just lying out there. You decide to bring it in and bury it, but you trip. The chicken flies into the covienently located industral-grade fan which has it's safety guard off for cleaning. It's blades had just been cleaned and it was very sterile. It's steak-sized pieces land on your hot grill, which is currently cooking carrots and caramalized corn. Do you eat it, knowing it died naturally and was cut up by a freak accident.

BTW, lemme ask you something. You're on a farm, one of your chickens has died from natural causes. It's winter, and the chicken is just lying out there. You decide to bring it in and bury it, but you trip. The chicken flies into the covienently located industral-grade fan which has it's safety guard off for cleaning. It's blades had just been cleaned and it was very sterile. It's steak-sized pieces land on your hot grill, which is currently cooking carrots and caramalized corn. Do you eat it, knowing it died naturally and was cut up by a freak accident.

no, two reasons. Number 1, natural causes means disease, which renders the meat unfit for consumption.

Number 2, still wouldn't. It's been too long since I've eaten meat. I just can't imagine eating it again. Just knowing that its flesh in my mouth that Im chewing up is enough to make me sick.

Well, then how do you classify dying from cold or old age or something? I guess cold, no, but old age is pretty natural.

Well, then how do you classify dying from cold or old age or something? I guess cold, no, but old age is pretty natural.

Funny, me and my mom were just talking about old age being a natural death when one of my pet rats died this weekend.

Working with animals in a medical setting since I was 12, I can tell you that 99% of animals don't die from old age alone. There are usually geriatric complications like cancer. It is VERY rare for an animal to just die peacefully in their sleep because of age shutting their bodies down. Animals are lucky in the sense that they can be euthanized.

I have no problem with animals dying. Even my own critters I'm upset that they're gone, but I'm not emotionally destroyed. Dying is a natural part of life.

That being said, I'm not upset that we kill for food. If we only hunted for our food, I would never have become a vegetarian, I never would have had the reason to. I just don't agree with factory farming. I don't agree with keeping animals in less than ideal situations for our own enjoyment. Sure the chickens have heaters in the winter and a/c in the summer. But they are still kept 12 to a cage with no place to "hunt" for food (in the form of pecking and foraging), no place to roost to sleep, no mates to reproduce etc etc. That's why I cheer when I see a lion take down a gazelle, but don't eat meat myself. That's why I am not against human hunting (provided the hunters use ALL of the animal, and not just the head for a trophy). Also, I feed my animals biologically appropriate food. They are carnivores, so I feed them meat and not kibble.

Oh, I'd also like to add that even with wld game, I wouldn't eat it now. Like I said before, I'm so used to not eating meat, that I just couldn't do it again.

Maybe I'm just crazy :wink:

Yes well, I guess since I was speaking hypothetically, that chicken just happened to be the 1% rarity. Lol.

even if tha chicken died of natural causes, I wouldent touch it. You ever eaten a chicken that is old????? Tough meat cant hardely cut it up much less chey it up....Yuck....I perfer to chop its head off my self and pluck its feathers.....At least my hens aint In a small pen. They run wild around my home. They have everything they need, food, water, playmates, bed buddies, ect. And I get to pick one out for supper. Nothing wrong with that.My dogs catch one once and a while and have chicken for supper them selves. All in tha natural food chain.

I think the point of the original post wasn't intended to be a meateaters vs. vegetarians/vegans thing. If I read right her point is she hates the way some people go to extremes to make their point. (i.e. PETA letting dogs loose at a show).

I feel if you don't agree with something then do/don't whatever it is and don't make an ass of yourself while doing it (i.e. trying to convince everyone else they're wrong by going to extremist measures to do so).