2 questions for begginer

1.How do I go about getting a licence and what is required.

2. Is a honda cbr600 a bad bike to start on? because pretty much my first bike will be my last for a while because i am in college and i wont have the money to get a new bike when i get better.

first you need to know what the laws are for how old you must be and if you need to take a course which i would recommend. i have an 04 honda
600rr its an awesome bike. get a good helmet snell approved if possible and good gear try not to buy cheap gear.

first you need to know what the laws are for how old you must be and if you need to take a course which i would recommend. i have an 04 honda
600rr its an awesome bike. get a good helmet snell approved if possible and good gear try not to buy cheap gear.

oh yes most deffinately on good gear, i would never ride without it, i have seen some accidents. at my college parking lot is where they have the cycle classes. ok i'll find out about the laws, im 18. whats the difference between the f4 or f4i and the rr?

I'll try to answer your question, but I'm not very knowledge-able on the subject, so someone will probably have to either confirm it or correct it.

F4 is up to 2000, and it's carbed
F4i is 2001+ and it's fuel injected
RR race replica, 2003+, and you'll want to stay away from it, if it's your first bike.

Actually F4 is from 98-00 (01?), before that was the F3, the F2, and the F.

RR is a much faster bike than the F4/i.

go to the DMV and take the written permit test. then you can take the MSF course, which is the best route IMO, espeically because you'll get to learn on their little 250's for a couple days, so when you get on your CBR it won't be so overwhelming. or you could just get the bike, ride with friends who are licensed and when you feel comfortable go take the road test. i'd recommend looking into other bikes though, don't have your mind set on a honda just because you're partial to that brand, go sit on a bunch of bikes and see how they fit you and what makes you feel the most comfortable.

go to the DMV and take the written permit test. then you can take the MSF course, which is the best route IMO, espeically because you'll get to learn on their little 250's for a couple days, so when you get on your CBR it won't be so overwhelming. or you could just get the bike, ride with friends who are licensed and when you feel comfortable go take the road test. i'd recommend looking into other bikes though, don't have your mind set on a honda just because you're partial to that brand, go sit on a bunch of bikes and see how they fit you and what makes you feel the most comfortable.


sounds good, I think I will try a couple bikes before I get my mind set, thanks. one more question, I wanted to know, what is a good year of bike to get? i want to go to a used bike dealership, but I dont know what year and prices go together? is there some kind of blue book for motorcycles?

There's KBB, the same website that you can get car prices on.

I'd look in your local newspaper, cycletrader, ebay, and craigslist for a bike. As for what year, it really depends on your budget. Newer bikes will be significantly faster than older ones.

Actually F4 is from 98-00 (01?), before that was the F3, the F2, and the F.

RR is a much faster bike than the F4/i.

There's no 98 F4, you're thinking of F3. F4 came in 99-00, then the same bike was fuel injected in 01-03 with little body redesigns and engine tweaks. On 04, they went back to F4's 1 piece banana seat to atract the touring crowd and make it more street-friendly.

What do you plan on doing with it (daily transportation, weekend trips, burn up curves, etc)?

There are so many good bikes and different styles and sizes to fit different abilities and uses, it's hard to say without knowing a little of what you want out of it.

In general, my advice is to go with an older Jap standard like a Yamaha Maxim, Kawasaki LTD, 550cc-750cc to start learning on, they are cheap, reliable and very compliant and easy to learn on. After riding it for three months or so, sell it and get what you really want.

You should have some idea by then what you like and don't like about bikes.

A sportbike is not a good choice for a beginner. I know, nobody wants to hear it. The problem is your learning curve has to be very quick to gain experience before you run outta luck.

There is some real benefit in learning on something that is a bit underpowered and slow-reacting initially.

My brother's best friend from school killed himself at 19 years old with a 600F2 he'd only had for three days. His folks didn't even know he had it, he was leaving it at a friend's house.

He got going way too fast and missed a curve, ended up airborne into some trees at 60+ mph. Damn waste, in my opinion.

Anyway, an older Bandit, Nighthawk, etc is a blast to ride, quick handling but a reasonable riding position for longer trips, great mileage, reliable, and cheap and plentiful. These are fantastic starter bikes. Light and compliant enough not to intimidate a new rider, quick and nimble enough to put a smile on an experienced rider's face.

Think about what kind of riding you plan on doing, and what features are important to you, and I'll see what else I can think of.

If you have never riden any bikes and you want to start on a 600cbr it will be fast. Reguardless of any year cbr you get it will definately scare you. My first bike was and is still actually a F2 CBR 600 and i'll tell you it took me quite a while to even realize how fast it was. Granted I had a little experience on an older 750 Nighthawk which was a great bike for all its worth (especially for a new rider), but there was still that intimidation factor that doesn't go away for a while. I put over 4k mi. on the F2 this summer and I still have a long way to go before I can push the bike even closer to its limits (if ever).

However if you do go about getting a cbr the MSF coarse is an absolute must because you need all the seat time you can get. An older cbr (although just as potent) willy be a smarter economical choice considering that if you do drop it there is less invested in it.

Gear, gear, gear. Its a must. My best friend has been saved mutliple times because he was wearing gear. He was still banged up afterwards, but without the gear, it would of a been significantly worse. He missed about 2 months of work from his last wreck. Imagine if he wasn't wearing anything..

One of the most important factors in riding a bike IMO is awareness and a level head. You will soon realize that people simply don't see bikes and thats how you have to ride. Realizing and knowing your limits is extremely important, but you have to train yourself to stick within those limits (kinda like mind over matter). Its those emergency situations where you gotta brake hard or swerve that will test a beginner in a way you don't want to be tested (trust me, I know). I know this sounds like preaching, but you can't ever be to safe. Bikes are a blast to ride and I wouldn't give it up for anything. Just remember to always respect the machine. :2cents:

One of the most important factors in riding a bike IMO is awareness and a level head. You will soon realize that people simply don't see bikes and thats how you have to ride. Realizing and knowing your limits is extremely important, but you have to train yourself to stick within those limits (kinda like mind over matter). Its those emergency situations where you gotta brake hard or swerve that will test a beginner in a way you don't want to be tested (trust me, I know). I know this sounds like preaching, but you can't ever be to safe. Bikes are a blast to ride and I wouldn't give it up for anything. Just remember to always respect the machine. :2cents:

excellent advice here.

Assume everthing on four wheels is out to kill you. Ride accordingly. It's not fair that we have to think for them, but that's the price we pay for the thrill.

And if you ever loose at least some small bit of fear of riding, you are about to get hurt. Overconfidence and complacency are hands down the #1 killer of motorcyclists, not four wheelers.

i see what you mean, im not going to go out there trying to do wheelies or go flying down the road at high speeds, i just want a nice looking bike to cruise around on on nice days, granted i know the risk is just as high. i would never ride or be a passenger of a bike without proper gear either. I really wish i had the money to start out on a cheaper bike, but like i said before my first bike will be my last, im going to have to make payments on it cuz its the only way i can afford it. but i guess the bike thing just isnt for poor people lol, maybe i'll stick to my car.

im not going to go out there trying to do wheelies or go flying down the road at high speeds That is a cliche among newbies, very common. And you don't have to do any of that to lay down the bike or get seriously injured, there are hundreds of other ways. Starting out on less CC/hp bike reduces some of those risks.

my first bike will be my last hope you don't mean that, for your sake.

im going to have to make payments on it cuz its the only way i can afford it. if you can't lay down some cold hard cash, whether you buy old or new, then you're not ready for it. expensive hobby.

but i guess the bike thing just isnt for poor people lol, maybe i'll stick to my car.

sorry to say, you should really reconsider, it's not for the faint-hearted. some people learn it the hard way. you don't have to be wealthy, but it takes a toll if you're living on your own, going to school, paying bills, and worse, high maintenance girlfriend. not only it's expensive at times, but very dangerous. riding motorcycles is about risk management, you can never eliminate the danger.

i see what you mean, im not going to go out there trying to do wheelies or go flying down the road at high speeds, i just want a nice looking bike to cruise around on on nice days, granted i know the risk is just as high. i would never ride or be a passenger of a bike without proper gear either. I really wish i had the money to start out on a cheaper bike, but like i said before my first bike will be my last, im going to have to make payments on it cuz its the only way i can afford it. but i guess the bike thing just isnt for poor people lol, maybe i'll stick to my car.

After typing this I realized how long it was so bear with me. :smile:

Hey you have the right mentality. And I'm sure you will be a responsible rider. My intentions are not to scare you off, but to make you aware of the responsiblities invovled in riding. As bad as I may have made it out to be, it is by far very rewarding. Once your on a bike and riding it you will realize how fun and different it is than driving a car. I like to think of a bike as an ultimate freedom on the road. You can see everything and are so much more aware of your surroundings than you can ever be in a car. There isn't anything to block you (other than your helmet) from what you can see. This isn't a bad thing thou. Its almost a self response to your surroundings. Your simply more aware of whats going on when riding. Somtimes I enjoy myself riding slower than the speed limit at times, and if you feel like pushing it, its is merely a grasp of the throttle away. Its almost an unlimited freedom.

When your ridnig you'll know these things and that they are all possible, but those possiblities are what you have to control. With an experienced rider it isn't nearly as much as problem as it is a thought. They have the time on the seat that allow them to make choices quickly. On beginners, its different. You'll know what I mean if you decide on buying a bike.

And thats okay thou. You will realize this and naturally it will slowly but surely come to you. I was slow on my cbr when I started out, but I just didn't have the experience to actually ride it correctly. Thats is really all that you are missing. In time you will learn all this.

Ok on a last note: Its doesn't take a lot of money to get a good bike. I bought my bike (which is on my sig) for only 500 bucks. Granted my education in mechanics helped me significantly on getting it ready, it still really isn't all about the money. I spent a weekend just to get it started, and now it runs like a damn champ. Nothing, nada, zip is mechanically wrong with it. It just needed a little TLC.

You may not get this lucky, but there are bikes out there within a very resonable cost. You just have to find the right seller. Good luck on your pursue! If you have more questions feel free to respond. There are a lot more experienced riders on this forum than I.

dang, good deal on the 500 bucks, i only know car mechanics though, ive never tore down a bike. i guess ill just have to look around and see. what kind of cbr did you start with? and what kind of bike is that in your sig?

Starting out I always bought the cheapest bike I could find that was in reasonably good condition. Like Kurt said above, I have always been good with my hands and worked as a mechanic, so problems are a welcome challenge to me, not an obstacle or expense.

BUT, if you are NOT that type, then I strongly advise that you buy from a good dealer and bite the bullet and get the machine serviced there. A small problem that a trained eye will catch on a routine look-over can turn into a life-threatening failure if nobody sees it on a bike.

I drive semis for a living, and as a CDL driver I'm required to do a 115 point inspection of my rig every trip. It comes easy to me, because I was also a State vehicle safety inspector for 12 years. It's impossible for me to look at any vehicle without being critical. I'm sure that has saved me from death or injury many times, too.

If you ride you need to develop that skill, always be taking in everything you see, feel and hear about your bike, and if it seems wrong, get it looked at.

My first was a 1980 Kawasaki 400 LTD that I got for $150 from a woman that lost interest in it and couldn't get it started after it sat for a year, didn't want to mess with having it transported to a shop and a big repair bill.

I brought it home in a friend's pickup and after about thirty minutes of checking discovered the cam for the ignition points had rusted, and the points never closed. A quick sanding and a new set of points, and I was riding! It was a good little bike, perfect for a first-timer.

There's still some really good deals on some great older stuff. If you are stuck on looking like the "in" crowd, I don't know what to tell you. If you wanna experience the thrill on a budget, bikes are like convertibles, doesn't matter what it is or what it looks like, they are all a blast to ride.

My friend wanted to get back into riding after not having a bike since the early eighties, smart guy, wanted to start small and let it all come back to him. There is a growing segment of riders getting killed in large numbers right now, they are ones like him who used to ride, or always wanted to, and now that the kids are gone and they have the money they go out and buy some big 1500cc 700 lb cruiser or a 10 second sportbike or a big freakin' GoldWing and promptly go kill themselves because they can't handle it.

My friend asked me to find him something appropriate for a beginner, and cheap. I found an '83 Yamaha Maxim 650, in perfect condition and optioned with a windshield and bags for $1000. He loves it, been riding it two seasons now, no problems.

Also, I can tell you from experience with many riders and myself, don't get boxed into thinking the first bike will be the one for you. You don't know what you will and won't like about riding 'till you've done some. You don't know what kinda power suits you. Some people are happy to ride the same motor for years, most often people get bored and are looking for more within months of trying something new, starting out anyway.

And most will tell you that they only had their first bike maybe one season, if that, before getting something different/better.

So my advice is to buy something that you can afford out of pocket, whatever it is, and ride it for a while, then sell it, and go shopping for a new one armed with some idea of what you want in a bike. Otherwise, you may end up making payments on something you really aren't happy with very soon.

There's plenty of those in the ads, people trying to just get someone to take their payment over so they can get out from under it. Don't be one of those. Buy some POS bike and get some seat time. It'll save you money eventually...

The bike on my sig is my cbr that I started out with (its my first bike). Its a 93 F2 and runs great. I couldn't ask anything more from it. I thought I was bitting the bullet when I got it, but the previous owner (which happens to be a good friend of mine) swore it ran good before. It didn't start one bit when I finally got it home in my garage. Hell the electrical didn't even turn on! After a good 12hrs of cleaning it up, finding problems, fixing problems, and drinking a few beers she fired right up. After it was running all I had to do was adjust the choke and idle and it was all said and done.

Funny thing, the first time I jumped on it just to take it for a test drive I popped a wheelie going from first to second! Did it all on accident which needless to say almost made me shit my pants, so I made a B line straight back home :icon16: . I had forgotten that my throttle was sticky and didn't pull it back when I pulled the clutch in. It reved up to about 9k and then I released the clutch and whamm! Up it goes.

Really though bikes arent that intimidating to work on. I find them easier. Its all right there in front of you. Everything is in eyes view and relatively easy to get to.

I have a friend with a drag bike for sale, fabbed frame, Orient Express Z-1 motor, 9.5:1 compression, full race cams, 21 psi turbo, wheelie bars, great starter bike.

$5500

It'd be the coolest (and last) 9 seconds of your life ;)

I have a friend with a drag bike for sale, fabbed frame, Orient Express Z-1 motor, 9.5:1 compression, full race cams, 21 psi turbo, wheelie bars, great starter bike.

$5500

It'd be the coolest (and last) 9 seconds of your life ;)
:rofl:

I'd like to throw in a few comments...

Check out a few used SV650's. Good beginner bike, you'll never outgrow it, good power, V twin, and its whats most club racers use to get their careers started, so you could literally go from learning in the driveway to winning WERA championships on the same machine, and its perfectly suitable for both.

Another thing to keep in mind is... if you pay 4 grand for a used SV650 and decide you don't want to ride anymore in 3 months, you can sell it and break even. You buy an R6 brand new off of the showroom floor and decide to sell it (if you haven't wadded it up by then, which is extremely common), you'll lose several thousand dollars on the deal.

i just really like the style of the street bikes, are there any old bikes that have that look to them thats good to start on? is that 93 F2 you have a good one to start with? or should i just shoot for something older?

What do you mean by "style of street bikes"? Are you talking about sportbikes?

An F2 would be a good platform to learn on. it's going to be much more docile, less peaky, more forgiving, and more comfortable than modern sportbikes, but at the same time its got plenty of power to have fun.

Wouldn't get a F4, not until a few months of experience on something else.

oh ok thats perfect then, when i said street bikes i meant sport bikes sorry, i didnt want an f4 because of the power, i really just liked the look of it, but i think that f2 kurt has looks really nice, thats why i was wondering if its a good bike to start on because i think thats what i might get, after checking one out of course

Uh oh, it's about sport bikes and beginners. I'm outta here ;)

PS, the SV650 is an excellent suggestion. I know a few people who bought them, and these are people that have owned touring bikes, cruisers and sport bikes, and they all say they are amazed at how well it can do it all and haven't gotten bored with it yet.

One of our Canadian members rode his to the rally in Kentucky this summer, said it was comfortable and handled the highway well, even with all his gear strapped on it.

I hear the "all the bike you'll ever need" comment a lot about that one. I should probably check it out, but if I get anything even resembling a naked sport or streetfighter, I'm gettin' a Buell XB12R Firebolt:iceslolan

The F2 is a good bike and now that I have it, I wouldn't of had it any other way. Its still kinda up there in the yellowish red area as what I would consider a good recommendation for a starter bike, but its not out of the question.

As with sportbikes, you want to check them out more carefully than you would a cruiser or standard (not that you shouldn't carelessly check any bike). Its all probability really. A higher percentage of sportbikes IMO will have had a rougher life which directly reflects what kind of condition its in. Try to take a more realist approach rather being optimistic when looking at them. This is mainly for your own benefit. Being too optimistic could be the begining of a potentially bad decision.

The F2 is a moderate machine when your out of the powerband, but once you hit it, your in the yellowish red area (as I mentioned above) pretty much instantly. This is because the powerband is very distinct. There isn't anything gradual about it.

As everybody mentioned, the SV650 would be a great bike to begin on. It has a wide and gradual powerband that v-twins are known for, and its handling is very communicative. This can allow you to explore its abilities more freely with a higher level of confidence than a on a sportsbike where it requires more skill.

But you know, its your money, and you are fully entitled to get what you want. We (the bike community) just like to look out for each other by sharing our suggestions and experiences. But in the end, its all up to you.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/SV_Devon/SV%20Junk/SV650-1a.jpg
yeah you should get the sv650s, geat performance, handling and looks and it's great for a beginner

2 questions, what year is that? and 2 i noticed alot of them dont have that side body panel, but the one in your picture there does, where do i get that? and is all agreed this is a good one to start with?

i think that is a 2003 sv650s. if you like that body style, it starts from 2003 till the latest model. they all come half faired but you can get the lower fairings here:http://www.oneidasuzuki.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=17981&partner=froogle

and we all agree that it's a great bike for beginners.

This is what I've seen of them....did they change the style?

http://www.geocities.com/catpoopman/j0.jpg

thank you guys very much, i think you have helped keep me safe a great deal, if i didnt come here first i'd prolly end up dead lol, i think i'll go try out one of those, i like suzukis too so thats cool thanks!

This is what I've seen of them....did they change the style?

http://www.geocities.com/catpoopman/j0.jpg

Yeah, from 99-02, and then 03-05 they redesigned the bike, new frame, new instruments, added little power on engine, weight is similar, and FI.

I have the 02, pics are in my gallery:

http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/showgallery.php?ppuser=193855

http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/503/19385503.jpg

It's also up FOR SALE on cycle traders:

http://www.cycletrader.com/caddetail.html?/ad-cache/5/9/1/81814991.htm

i like suzukis too so thats cool thanks!

http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/503/193855untitled.jpg

99-02 version, this is one of the good looking mods someone has done to their SV.

the best way to get a license is to take the msf safety course. Depending where you live, you will be licensed at the end of the program if you pass the knowledge and skill test. I am an instructor here in Pa. and our program is fifteen hours long. Even experienced riders taking the course learn things they never knew.

if you like the look of sportbikes the new 650r ninja is a v-twin also, comparable to the sv650s except it has full fairings. i think it's a really nice bike.

http://www.kawasaki.com/kawasaki_main/images/products/MOTORCYCLE/2437_800.jpg
http://www.kawasaki.com/kawasaki_main/images/products/MOTORCYCLE/2436_800.jpg

is everyone agreed that the ninja is a good starter bike also? they do look nice but i always thought that they didnt seem to begginer like

is everyone agreed that the ninja is a good starter bike also? they do look nice but i always thought that they didnt seem to begginer like

I would NOT say the Ninja is a good starter bike unless you are talking about the 250cc or 500cc versions.

is everyone agreed that the ninja is a good starter bike also? they do look nice but i always thought that they didnt seem to begginer like

It's pretty confusing to differentiate between bikes and their characteristics/purposes when you're new to it all.

The bikes to stay away from for the most part are going to be the flagship 4 cylinder sportbikes. Bikes like the CBR600F4i, CBR600RR, ZX-6R, ZX-6RR, YZF-R6, and the GSX-R600 are bikes to stay away from as a new rider, and really don't make good street bikes at all in my opinion. They're designed as race machines and are designed to be ridden as such. They suck at just about everything else, with the exception of possibly the F4i which is more street oriented.

The older sportbikes like the F2 can make great learner platforms, as well as the "standard" bikes like the SV650 or the new Ninja 650R. Generally, something with a more upright riding position, and less than 80 or so horsepower would be potentially a good starter bike for someone who has never ridden anything before. Unfortunately its inaccurate to make blanket statements like "ninjas are bad starter bikes", because it really is a case by case basis. I know a guy who crashed a 250 Rebel in an empty parking lot his first day out and was put in the hospital, and I also know a girl who started on an F4i and was dragging knees by her 2nd month riding. It's going to vary by rider and environment as to what is suitable.

man this is confusing, bikes seem to be a little hard to find in this area, so i'm just trying to put a couple of choices together so i can expand my chances of finding a bike. i bought a trading post and saw no sv65os or cbr f2s. im going to get a cycle trader today and see what i cant find.

sv650s:
http://motors.search.ebay.com/sv650s_SV_W0QQfclZ3QQfromZR12QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ2QQsac atZ50034QQssPageNameZWLRS
cbr f2:
http://motors.search.ebay.com/f2_CBR_W0QQa10238ZQ2d24QQa38v1yZQQa38v2yZQQa39ZQ2d 24QQalistZa39Q2ca41Q2ca38v1yQ2ca38v2yQ2ca10238Q2ca 3801Q2ca85Q2ca10246QQbsZSearchQQcatrefZC6QQcoactio nZcompareQQcoentrypageZsearchQQcopagenumZ1QQfclZ3Q QfgtpZQQfposZQ5AIPQ2fPostalQQfromZR2QQfsooZ2QQfsop Z2QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQgcsZ14QQlopgZQQpf_queryZf2QQpf idZ2469QQpfmodeZ1QQreqtypeZ2QQsacatZ49999QQsadisZ2 00QQsaprchiZQQsaprcloZQQsargnZQ2d1QQsaslcZ2QQsbrft ogZ1QQsofocusZbs

trying to find one in my area so that i can at least sit on it before i buy one, im in chesapeake virginia usa

There should be ALL KINDS of bikes not too far from you ATMDC!!! I have made calls about countless bikes to all over VA (since I'm up in Pittsburgh, it's not a fun "pointless" day trip for me). Good luck, and we'll be glad to answer other questions that come up in your search!

You'd think that now would be the time to get a deal too with the weather cooling down...

^ yup. check out your local dealerships too. i'm sure there are either used bikes there, or they know of people who are trying to sell their bikes. at the place i go to there's a bulletin board with all sorts of "for sale" ads. they sell some bikes on consignment too.

here's a 2003 sv650s in portsmouth in great condition. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2003-Suzuki-SV650S_W0QQitemZ4592445821QQcategoryZ50034QQssPage NameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


damn i'm good! :sunglasse

What do you plan on doing with it (daily transportation, weekend trips, burn up curves, etc)?

There are so many good bikes and different styles and sizes to fit different abilities and uses, it's hard to say without knowing a little of what you want out of it.

In general, my advice is to go with an older Jap standard like a Yamaha Maxim, Kawasaki LTD, 550cc-750cc to start learning on, they are cheap, reliable and very compliant and easy to learn on. After riding it for three months or so, sell it and get what you really want.

You should have some idea by then what you like and don't like about bikes.

A sportbike is not a good choice for a beginner. I know, nobody wants to hear it. The problem is your learning curve has to be very quick to gain experience before you run outta luck.

There is some real benefit in learning on something that is a bit underpowered and slow-reacting initially.

My brother's best friend from school killed himself at 19 years old with a 600F2 he'd only had for three days. His folks didn't even know he had it, he was leaving it at a friend's house.

He got going way too fast and missed a curve, ended up airborne into some trees at 60+ mph. Damn waste, in my opinion.

Anyway, an older Bandit, Nighthawk, etc is a blast to ride, quick handling but a reasonable riding position for longer trips, great mileage, reliable, and cheap and plentiful. These are fantastic starter bikes. Light and compliant enough not to intimidate a new rider, quick and nimble enough to put a smile on an experienced rider's face.

Think about what kind of riding you plan on doing, and what features are important to you, and I'll see what else I can think of.
sry to bring back an old post, but i had to respond to this.
last year my best friend got a gixxer. we were going to a car/bike show in Myrtle Beach SC. he was getting cocky on I-95 started speeding up to about 100 or so while i was driving behind him in my car. he lost control or hit some gravel or something. he landed about 100 yards from his bike. the bike got caught in the guard rail and stopped. he died on impact right in front of me.

i just felt compelled to share that to you guys.