Delta 88 Royale Wont Start (lost For Ideas)

Have A 1991 Delta 88 Royale With 104,000 Miles.has Been Sitting Up For Past 8 Months After Quit Running. Engine Turns Over Fine But Will Not Start.since Car Sat For So Long Battery Was Dead And Lost Any Trouble Codes That May Have Been Stored.at The Time Car Died I Did Not Know How To Retrieve The Codes.now The Only Code I Get Is 12 Which Says Diagosic Mode.i Have Replaced The Battery,fuel Pump And Strainer,fuel Filter,cam Shaft Position Sensor,knock Sensor,o2 Sensor And Coil Pack.I SPRAYED STARTED FLUID IN THROTTLE BODY BUT FIRE CAME OUT THE THROTTLEBODY AND CAR DID NOT ATTEMPT TO CRANK.I Dont Have The Money To Replace All Sensors Etc Trying To Figure Out What The Problem Is.considering Replacing The Crankshaft Position Sensor But Would Like To Know If Theres A Way To Check This Before Replacing It(seems To Be A Big Job Replacing Crankshaft Sensor)any Other Ideas On What Else The Problem Could Be Or How To Check Would Be Greatly Appreciated.

hey Kev,I'm not to sure about those cars,but check and see if it has a coil pack instead of a distributor.If so have you'r pack checked at an autozone.they are pretty easy to take off,just make sure you mark your wires lol.Thats the first thing I would check.gl

you seam to have changed most of the important stuff like old dirty fuel etc. have you checked the plugs to see if their firing??

HEY ATV.THANKS FOR REPLY. SINCE I GOT FIRE COMING OUT OF THROTTLE BODY AFTER SPRAYING STARTER FLUID I ASSUMED PLUGS WERE FIRING. HOW CAN I CHECK PLUGS SINCE CAR WONT START?you seam to have changed most of the important stuff like old dirty fuel etc. have you checked the plugs to see if their firing??

the fire could be just from compression and heat built up or some plugs can be firing and some might not. what you can try is pulling out one plug at a time and lay it against the engine while someone else cranks it and see if you see a spark. if you do on that one put it back in and try the next plug if you dont get a spark on that one. go to the coil pack where the end of the wire is and hold the wire with insulated pliars or something and hold it right above where it plugs in on the coil pack and see if u see a spark then while someone tries to crank it. if you do then id recomend replacing your plugs and wires. now does the car try and crank or does it try and turn over very slowly?

THANKS ATV. I WILL TRY THAT WHEN I GET HOME TONIGHT. WILL POST RESULTS TOMORROW. THANKSthe fire could be just from compression and heat built up or some plugs can be firing and some might not. what you can try is pulling out one plug at a time and lay it against the engine while someone else cranks it and see if you see a spark. if you do on that one put it back in and try the next plug if you dont get a spark on that one. go to the coil pack where the end of the wire is and hold the wire with insulated pliars or something and hold it right above where it plugs in on the coil pack and see if u see a spark then while someone tries to crank it. if you do then id recomend replacing your plugs and wires. now does the car try and crank or does it try and turn over very slowly?

Checked Spark Plugs And 6 Of 6 Are Firing.unhooked Knock Sensor Try To Start And Get Trouble Code For Knock Sensor, Unhook Battery To Clear Codes Hook Up Knock Sensor Try To Start Then No Codes.unhook Crankshaft Position Sensor Try To Start No Codes.hook Back Up Crankshaft Position Sensor Try To Start No Codes.(getting Fire And Getting Fuel So Seems Like Should Start???)

I have similar issue. A 1987 88, with 3.8 liter. Was running perfect, started to leave a stoplight, car died. It is getting fuel, right about 40 psi. I pulled plugs, it is sparking on all 6. So, I am getting fuel, and spark, but it does not fire. I was trying to find the timing marks on the crank, and thought it might be on the tabs on the rear of the balancer, so I cleaned off the oil off of the metal tabs with WD40 and rag. Hooked up timing light, and had it cranked over, just to see if I could find the timing marks. IT FIRED once! Then I wiped off another tab, cranked it again, fired once again. So I am suspecting the crank position sensor. Does anbody know for sure, if the crank position sensor might be my culprit????THANKS

its could very well be your crank position sensor (chubbygoatboy) but i wouldnt go running around buying all kinds of sensors that could be very expensive. are you getting any codes??


also KEVEN1767 how long was your car sitting for? if it was sitting long enough you might have something clogged in your exhaust. which could be likely but may or may not let your car start. you have all the basic things your car needs to start your getting air your getting fuel and your getting spark. you said you changed the fuel pump and you changed the fuel filter etc so im assuming you changed the gas in the tank also before trying anything. so assuming you did all that and you have good fuel pressure try spraying starting fluid in the throttle body and down into the front 3 spark plug holes considering its going to be quite a pain to get to the back ones. and put the front 3 plugs back in and try and start it then. if it does not start then try with the air hose going to the throttle body off. if it does start with the starter fuild and stays running your in luck it if doesnt do like i said before check to make sure your exhaust isnt restricted by something.

hope this helps
jason

THE CAR HAS SAT UP FOR ABOUT 8 MONTHS BECAUSE IT QUIT RUNNING.WAS DOING GOOD THEN WHEN DRIVING HOME STARTED LOSING POWER.IF I TRYED TO GIVE IT MORE THROTTLE WOULD JUST LOSE MORE POWER.IF I LET OFF GAS AND HELD IT BACK SOME WOULD RUN FAIR.MADE IT HOME THEN TRYED STARTING AGAIN AND AFTER AN HOUR OR SO TRYING TO CRANK WITH JUMPER CABLES ATTACHED WOULD FINALLY START BUT IF TRYED TO DRIVE NO POWER THEN DIED.HAVENT MESSED WITH BECAUSE DONT KNOW WHAT PROBLEM IS.LASTWEEK WHEN I CHANGED FUEL PUMP/STRAINER/FILTER I CLEANED OUT GAS TANK AND WAS COMPLETELY CLEAN AND DRY BEFORE PUTTING FRESH GAS IN TANK.I USE THE PAPER CLIP IN 12 PIN ASSEMBLY LINE DATA LINK TO GET CODES.ONLY CODE I HAVE GOTTEN WAS WHEN I UNHOOKED THE KNOCK SENSOR.GUESS THIS IS THE OBD 1 SYSTEM SO DIDNT BUY CODE SCANNER.I SPRAYED STARTER FLUID IN THROTTLEBODY AND LEFT AIR HOSE OFF.THIS IS WHEN I GOT FIRE OUT THE THROTTLEBODY SO I PUT THE AIR HOSE BACK ON. its could very well be your crank position sensor (chubbygoatboy) but i wouldnt go running around buying all kinds of sensors that could be very expensive. are you getting any codes??


also KEVEN1767 how long was your car sitting for? if it was sitting long enough you might have something clogged in your exhaust. which could be likely but may or may not let your car start. you have all the basic things your car needs to start your getting air your getting fuel and your getting spark. you said you changed the fuel pump and you changed the fuel filter etc so im assuming you changed the gas in the tank also before trying anything. so assuming you did all that and you have good fuel pressure try spraying starting fluid in the throttle body and down into the front 3 spark plug holes considering its going to be quite a pain to get to the back ones. and put the front 3 plugs back in and try and start it then. if it does not start then try with the air hose going to the throttle body off. if it does start with the starter fuild and stays running your in luck it if doesnt do like i said before check to make sure your exhaust isnt restricted by something.

hope this helps
jason

have you checked your injectors?

or for clogged exhaust

How Do You Check The Injectors And Exhaust??

Kevin, is the engine cranking? If yes, is the crank speed normal? This article may give you some ideas as to what it may be. It could be the crank positon sensor, but I would do a thorough check of the connections before resorting to replacing it. Not so sure that is an easy job either.

http://www.mightyautoparts.com/pdf/articles/tt76.pdf

Ron

Ron-Kevin,
An update on mine. I replaced the Crank sensor, it really was not too on this car. Tried to start it, nothing....jfsakdfkdddiii darn it!! I pulled all of the plugs, they were soaked. I mean soaked with gas. Turned it over several times to blow out the gas, and I noticed while I had the key on checking compression, that the rear center cyl that I had my compression tester on, was filling up with gas big time. When I took the comp hose out, it was full of gas, and while the key was still in the on position, I could still hear the fuel pump running, and I could here a buzzing on top of the engine, for a much longer time than usual. So I am fairly sure the rear center injector is sticking open. SO, could that be totally flooding the engine, not allowing it to fire.? There really is not a smell of gas in the oil like I have seen on a few other cars I have worked on. All of the plugs were drenched!! To add to my confusion, I am getting low compressions on all cylinders, most of the time. Like 20 psi, but then occasionally, it will jump to 100-ish on a couple of cylinders??? So for tonight, I removed the fuel pump fuse, cranked it over to blow out the cyls, and let it air out. Sorry for the long story. BUT if you have any ideas, especially about the compression, I would love to hear them. My next plan, unless you have some other ideas, is to disconnect the injector that I believe is sticking, install new, dry plugs, and try to start it. Any input is greatly appreciated!!

you can clean the plugs thats easy sand paper and starting fluid injector for our cars are cheap 42$ at the autoparts store neer me and they arent too difficult to replace either

Hey Ron. Sorry But I Dont Think I Can Help With That, Way Over My Head.i Wouldn't Even Know How To Check The Compression. Im Not Much Of A Mechanic Have To Refer To Haynes Manual To Do Repairs.you Mentioned That You Really Dont Smell Gas In The Oil. Do You Mean At The Dipstick?? When I Try To Crank Engine I Can Smell Gas Odor Strong. Maybe I Need To Check Injectors? Do You Remove Them 1 At A Time And Turn Ignition Or Can You Remove All At Same Time To Compare Output?

id just replace them their not that expensive

Hey Ron. Thanks For The Article Link.when I Try To Start Car Engine Turns Over At Normal Speed.i Thought Maybe Timing Chain Had Broke But Engine Turns Over Normal. Can You Check The Timing While Engine Is Spinning Of Does The Car Actually Have To Be Running?

Hey Atv. I Will Get A Price Today For The Injectors And If Reasonable Replace Them. I Thought That Would Be Expensive But Will Check It Out.thanks

also if the injectors dont work the last thing i can recomend to try is

Sometimes a belt will jump one or more teeth, throwing off cam timing. If this has happened, the engine may still run but valve timing will be retarded causing low compression and vacuum readings. Ignition timing will also be retarded if the engine has a cam-driven distributor. If the belt is loose and you suspect it has jumped timing, check the alignment of the timing marks on the cam drive and crankshaft. Also check the teeth on the belt for wear or damage, and the belt tensioner adjustment.

then you would have to go back and change your timing

This is only a guess,but with this compression issue ,it sounds like your timing chain,and or timing gear on the cam.you don't have a belt.

Thanks Auto > Im Beginning To Believe The Problem Is With The Timing. Tonight I Spend About 2 Hours Trying To Get It Started (have To Keep Jumper Cables Hooked Up) Will Turn Over Good And Seemed To Try To Start But Not Quite Make It.sometimes While Engine Turning It Would Kinda Backfire/cough Etc.thought It Was Gonna Finally Start.i Took Air Hose Off Going To Throttlebody Right After A Series Of Cranking On It And Noticed Smoke Coming Out Throttlebody.then Had Partner(wife) Continue Cranking On It And Would Backfire, Smoke And Cough Back Through The Throttlebody Intake When She Stopped Cranking On It. Before I Disassemble The Side Of The Motor To Look At This, Would Appreciate Any Ideas That With This Throttlebody Smoking And Coughing Issue Sounds Like Timing Belt Jumped??? Thanks In Advance.

I tried pulling compression test again, with a new compression gauge, and I think I found the problem. I get 30, 0,0 on front bank, and 20, 120, 30, on the rear bank. The 120 was kind of on the fifth or sixth hit?? So I am assuming something on the timing chain as you mentioned. It looks like parts are cheap, but a real fun job to do!! I guess SAturday is gone now!!!

I Know What You Mean. I Was Hoping For Something Simple And Easy To Get To Like A Sensor Or Spark Plug But That Figures, Will Spend First Part Of Saturday Tearing It Down And Setting Timing And Rest Off Weekend Trying To Put It Back Together With No Leftover Bolts.

the smoke coming out of the throttle body is normal thats the backfire caugh is probally an exhaust restriction, getting too much fuel or as i said before the timing. there is a way you can pull the injectors off to see if their spraying or if their sticking i just dont know how to do it. and here in new york injectors are cheap their not 40$ each their about 40$ for a set but it possible one of them stuck and was flooding your engine out.

Here's a suggestion. Install all the plugs back in the engine, pull off the air intake hose. Pull out the fuel pump fuse. Have someone hold the accelerator to the floor and crank the vehicle while you place your hand over the intake. Do you feel air pushing out the intake? If so, you may have jumped time. Your compression tests and the fact that fire came out the intake are signs of this. The next i would suggest is hooking an air hose or a rubber tipped air blower in the place of the spark plug on cylinders with the low compression readings. While air is running in the cylinder, open the throttle and listen for air rushins out the intake. Also, repeat this test and listen for this sound in the exhaust pipe. When doing this test, make sure the cylinder being checked is on top dead center(where both valves are closed). If you hear any air at all while both valves are closed, you have jumped time more than likely.

May have jumped time, focus on the compression issue.

I am getting the reverse air flow, (air pushing out), of the throttle body. So, I guess I am tearing the front end apart. I will post my findings, so that it might help someone else. Thanks for your inputs!!! Have a nice weekend!!

I Think I Will Try The Tests Corning Described Before I Tear Down To The Crankshaft To Check The Timing.im More Confident That It Has Jumped Time But Would Hate To Do All That Work And Timing Is Not The Problem.as Described In My 1st Post, Already Spend Alot Of Time And Money Putting New Parts On This Car And Every Time Was Just A Waste.this Car Was My Late Moms So I Want To Get It Running And Take Care Of It. Thanks For The Help.

Well, I hope your having better luck than me... I got most everything off and out of the way fairly quickly, but I CANNOT GET THE CRANK BOLT OUT!!!!!! I tried holding the crank pulley, and using breaker bar, several impact wrenches including a beast that was guaranteed to get it out!! NOTHING....I am even willing to sacrifice the dampener/pulley to get it out. A new one is only $89. Anybody got any ideas how to get it out?? THANKS++++++++++++++++ OK, update, GOT IT OUT!! It would not even come out with a 3/4 impact, I broke a impact socket, then drilled a hole in the balancer, lodged in a bolt, locked it in, and used a 4 foot pipe on a breaker bar, broke the extension. Got mad, put a fair amount of heat on it, and it came right out with my old 1/2" air wrench!! The timing chain sprocket on the cam is shot, also the chain dampener, cam sensor are shot as well... BUT, at least I got it apart. Now I just need to find out if this engine bends valves when this happens, or there is enough clearance. ANY IDEAS on clearance?

I Had To Work The Job This Weekend And Just Got Back So Will Be This Weekend Before I Get To Check The Car.will Post My Results.

I got bent valves on the front bank, Oh well... Now what to do.. Thanks for all of the input!!

jesus. what a post.


are we getting spark?


Have we checked each spark plug wire for a spark?


Have we checked the FPR?

if we have a spark that rules out a lot of things..we really need to see if we are getting a spark at each wire. or at least 5.

what about unplugging the sensors such as MAF, TPS to see if it changes..doubt that would cause a no start situation.

If we have no spark I would first check each coil pack (all you need to check that is a multimeter) if good I would look at ICM.

I Removed Each Spark Plug 1 At A Time And Each 1 Was Sparking When Laid Against Motor While Engine Turning. I Unplugged The Tps And No Trouble Code Given After Engine Turning And Turning, Same With Maf. Hooked Back Up But Still No Start. Havent Had Time To Check Timing Yet Due To Job Having To Work Past Weekends. The Coil Pack Was The 1st Thing I Replaced. I Dont Know What The Icm You Reference Is Or How To Check It.

When you did the timing chain are you sure the pick up magnet for the cam positioner was there? and the ICM is (ignition Control Module) is the base that your coils are on.

I Tore Down Yesterday, Removed Water Pump Etc But Was Unable To Get Crankshaft Pulley Off.pulley Puller Was Too Small.have A Larger Puller Now. Will Try Get Pulley Off Again And Will Check The Camshaft Position Magnet.