turbo kit for '02 ecotec

i'm looking at this turbocharge kit for my 2002 5speed LS with sport package (completely stock right now):

http://www.turbo-kits.com/cavalier_turbo_kits.html

anyone with experience with this company or maybe how good the quality of these parts are?

Should I also get a turbo timer to ensure that I don't get coking?

I should also probably get some extra guages like for air/fuel ratio... what other stuff like that would be recommended?

Looking so forward to hearing that turbo...

I believe he 02 is not an ecotec. I know it is a 2.2L however i do believe it is not and ecotec. OH and btw if you look at the price its higher than the orignal. cuz a 8 doesnt look like a 0 at all lol.

Hahn is top of the line when it comes to not only turbo quality but fitment. Yes there is an 02 eco. They started making the eco in 02 but you could only get it on select models.

And you are going to need alot more then you think you do. I say you do alot of research and figure things out before you jump into anything you may regrete.

for the parts you get in that kit, it is RIDICULOUSLY over priced....they are giving you DSM parts that are cheap and everywhere. You would be much better off looking at that list of parts and buying them off of a site like Honda-tech or some place like that. You could do that same set up for $2000-3000 at most.

I looked at the kits out for my car on that site and those kits are EXTREMELY overpriced! I think you need to look around and piece something together rather than padding someone's pocket!!

Here's a site that will help you get a better understanding of what you want and need.....its Integra specific so not all of the info pertains to you.

http://www.beesandgoats.com/boostfaq/g2icturbo.html

Yeah thats way too much money and it looks kinda shady. They arent mentioning andy brands so I wouldnt trust it. 335cc injectors for a 16g? 3000gt BOV? Sounds like they are doing it for as cheap as they can. I dont know man, you could buy separate parts for lots cheaper and you would know for sure that they are decent quality parts. Also, IIRC all mitsubishi turbos need to have oil and coolant run through them, notice no coolant lines?

im 100% sure my engine is an ecotec as it says "ecotec" in big letters right on it. 2002 was the first year they offered it (LS model), but 2003 was when it became standard.

Feel free to go check out the hahn (http://hahnracecraft.com/auto/index.htm) website and you will find out hahn doesnt fuck around when it comes to turbos.

Yeah Hahn is good, but that sight looks kinda shifty and I dont think thats a Hahn kit, just a Hahn turbo.

Hahn is a great company with support up the wazoo... They are doing great things for the Ecotec Motor - I personally have a Johnny Mack kit ( not sold anymore ) on my 02 Eco Cavalier. Its sweet. You will need to do a LOT of research. Check out www.jbody.org and read up in the Boost section. Turbo timer is not necessary but a good thing to have - Gauges are a must - not A/F ( useless for turbo ) Get a Pyrometer, Oil Pressure, and Boost/Vac to start. Then possibly a Wideband O2 sensor. That might be my next purchase.... :)

Good luck and dont listen to the haters - turbos are fun but a lot of fabrication unless you go with a kit.

I read that Integra site at least 2 times top to bottom before even looking at turbos to buy. very very informative, and im extremely appreciative to who wrote it.

looking at the turbo-kits page it looks like they ripped off everything from the hahn site including pictures. this being the case, regardless of other reasons for turbo-kits to be crappy, i'd rather go straight with the people who designed and produce the kit. thanks very much for pointing me in the right direction there.

Hahn also seems to consistantly use higher octane fuel for all their applications... i wonder if i should even consider that... but i really don't want to have to use anything other than 87.

Ahh, i see now why an A/F guage would be useless compared to a WO2... thanks for tip.

i was thinking about getting an in-cabin controller to be able to change presets between low desert arizona and higher mountain type snowboarding areas. is that done with a WO2 system?

i really don't want to have to use anything other than 87.
Running boost, you should use 91+.

Dont get me wrong, an ecotec would be tight as hell to boost, that site just looks shady and way overpriced.

is running higher octane manditory for boost applications? or is it just highly recommended?

also, my dash already has an engine temp and water temp gauges, so where would i put the probe for the pyrometer? assuming it's for the turbo itself, where would i mount the probe?

you don't need an EGT guage, the only guage you really need is a boost guage if your tuning is good.....otherwise you might want an A/F guage and EGT....

i contacted hahn racecraft directly and they are giving me the same price for their stage 2 kit ($3,500). they said they are also coming out with a stage 3 kit which will include portfeuler and intake system by the end of the year.

i think for the sake of not having to manufacture my own parts (im horrible in the shop), that probably a stage 3 kit for probably like $4k-$4.5k would be worth it, just for the sake of having a solid fully built and tested system.

they also said that: "Our stage 2 system has gone 12's in the 1/4mile on 12psi with 100octane!" i wonder how many other mods that included...

you also have to wonder where you're going to find 100 octane consistantly.......honestly you'd be better off buying parts seperately. You don't necessarily have to "make" any of the pieces yourself, you just have to look around and find companies that make the parts and find a good deal on them. IDK about Cavaliers, but for Honda/Acura's its really easy because there are parts galore for them.

I didn't look at the Hahn site long, but i wasn't really that impressed w/ the power they were making for the price....

what do you think of the mitsubishi 16g turbo they are using? do you think that's a good match for an ecotec used as a daily driving car?

its not a bad turbo, but there are a lot of other options out there. A 16g is kind of a cheaper turbo.....It would be good for a daily driver but you aren't going to see a lot of power out of that turbo...

what turbos do the people here use with their ecotecs?

is there a comparison guide somewhere?

found a great set of calculation tools for people who don't have the formulas memorized:

http://www.turbofast.com.au/javacalc.html

I dont know about the "Big 16g" but evo III 16g's have been can make 400 hp. I would guess a Big 16g to make probably ~350, and I think that it would be good for a daily driver. Hell, a 14b would be plenty good. Personally, I would get a t-25 or a 14b until you get your internals done. You should use higher octane gas because it is more resistant to detonation, or igniting prematurely on its own due to excessive heat and pressure.

i was thinking 14b when i posted that....the 16g will be a good turbo for your needs, but don't expect it to put more than about 250whp (and that's pushin it) w/o building the engine.....

220hp is my goal for now, which is a signifigant improvement from the 140hp it currently advertises. what im looking for most is faster spool time and lower rpm power. for that i'd choose a smaller turbo, right?

i just bought "Maximum Boost: Designing, Testing, and Installing Turbocharger Systems" by corky bell (as it was highly recommended by many people) on amazon. it seems kind of old, being from '97, but i've been told it's a good book to learn building a turbo system from scratch.. hope it's worth the $25.

is there a controller that can record numerous presets (that are tuned on a dyno or something) for things like changing between octanes, and changing altitudes? like something that i could mount to my dash and press a button or 2 and it changes some variables in the ECU or something...

yeah its cold an electronic boost controller.....$$$$

you're going to want to look at a GT28r(s) for a quick spool time and about 220whp.....

The 14b could put down more than 250 hp let alone a 16g. I would recommend a 14b, they are cheap as hell and everywhere so finding one wouldnt be hard. My friends DSM with a 2.0 spools that 14b at like 2800 rpms, it should be down near 2300 for a 2.2.

but a 14b on a DSM is boosting at 1 bar or so (~14psi) and that's way to high for a stock Cavalier. You would see nice gains from either turbo and would safely gain more from the 16g....

supposedly the 16g (at hahn) can safely do 9psi before getting into replacing engine parts.

but if i increase the diameter of my exaust system (say to 3") and put a high-flow catalytic converter, wouldn't that increase some? maybe up to 10psi?

also, would it be possible to add an electronic boost contoller before adding the boost system itself? there's one place i have to go for work in the hills and it seems like i get half the power and use up twice as much gas every time i have to go out there...

i've found an article about an ecotec being done up:

http://www.year2032.com/ecotec.htm

those tests scores on the bottom are from doing high pressure (more damage) NOS gains instead of from a turbo, right?

psi doesn't have anything to do w/ anything......psi means different things for different turbos

No, if you had a different exhaust you couldn't run higher boost. You might get more power out of the boost you're running and you'd get quicker spool, but the amount of boost you can run is based on when the engine knocks....the higher octane gas you use, the more boost you can run....to a point.

If you were to build the engine, you could run more boost, but on the stock engine, you could maybe get 220-230whp w/o breaking shit.

You don't need a boost controller if you're just running a couple pounds....people that have those are usually running fully built cars w/ a boost level for around town and then another setting for the track.

ok, i think im beginning to see...

so each turbo has a different width output pipe (turbo manifold?) and that PSI is the pressure outputted? so with a wider turbo, more PSI would be something like.. exponential in actual air volume produced?

and the header on the car is where the air goes in, right? so you would have to make a bigger one of those better intake air. but then it's about the internals taking the extra pressure...

are there many different ways to control where the ignition is going to be in the shaft (in relation to the peak crank angle)? or do most people just do that on a dyno?

no, turbos have different size compressor wheels, compressor housings, AR ratios, inlet/outlet diameter and tons of other things....there are turbos that suit every need.

The header takes the exhaust gas and funnels it into the exhaust side of the turbo....

You're going to have to have someone like Nissanfanatic explain the turbo's compressor maps and make better sense of psi vs. airflow......look him up and send him a copy of the link to this thread.....

ignition...i have no idea, there are programs for ignition and fuel mapping......


Like i said, talk to Nissanfanatic in the forced induction forum....he can help

Ok, here we go.

PSI is pressure going in to the engine. The 14b and 16g can make the same amount of power, but the 14b would require more pressure to achive the same air flow as the 16g would, but the 16g would take more time to spool. Remember this: pressure = heat and heat = knock. Airflow = power.

You need something to create boost before you can control it.

Yes, with higher octane you can run more boost, but remember you are dealing with a stock cavalier here, and even with 110 octane there is a pretty low limit to the amount of boost you can throw into that engine before you break a rod or something.

The intake manifold is where the air goes in. The exhaust manifold (sometimes called a header) is where the exhaust comes out.

95Gsx_racer (I think) is very knowledgable too. Keep the questions rolling, but dont start buying stuff until you know whats going on. :)

I have no idea what kind of power the 2.2l ecotec can support off the factory line... so I can't be too much help...

horsepower doesn't break engines...torque does. Torque is a direct relation to Peak Cylinder Pressure. Peak torque is Peak Cylinder Pressure.. If you see some of the guys that push the limits...you'll often see that they pull timing until they pass the point at which they woudl make peak torque... Then they go back to a more peak power oriented tune towards redline..

Boost pressure is resistance to flow. All a turbocharger does is flow. Larger turbos can move a lot of air, so not as much restriction is taking place... When you run a lot of boost, you create a lot of heat. Now... when you have a bunch of hot air, you have a lot of energy... Octane in fuel lowers the "energy of activation". AKA how much energy it takes to burn the fuel. In order to still run lower octane fuel and a lot of boost, you have to:

1)lower compression ratio
2)run water/alcohol injection
3)use high end charge cooling

A lot of people do say boost doesn't make any power...well thats not necessarily true... because it does make torque.. Raisning compression ratio no matter what will raise torque..

another thing I've heard of people forgetting is to retard timing when running more boost. Heard of guys popping 3 built engines at like 13psi becaues they never retarded timing. THen they put in a stocker, retarded timing, and ran 13psi no problem..

I find it much easier to try and make more power at lower boost. Using turbo-oriented cams, free flowing exhaust and intake manifolds, larger turbos, ect. Many people I see upgrade to this gi-normous comressor side turbos with a .63ar Stage3 wheel..... That is dumb. When upgrading to a high-power oriented turbo, you should use "matched" compressor and turbine sides... high boost also introduces a lot of thermal stress on your engine...

For street machines, use the maps.... That link to turbofast.com is exactly what I used to size my turbo. I run a 2.4l with a T3/T04E 50trim .60ar compressor/.63ar Stage 3 turbine.

I woudl bet, not using the mapping calculator yet, that the T04E 46trim woudl work very well for you and allow you to go pretty far... A guy on ka-t.org was making a lot of power(350whp+) on it on a 2.4l. For your setup, that compressor side plus a .48ar stage 3 turbine side and a good exhaust manifold and downpipe setup woudl yeild a very powerful car at even low boost...

110 octane to run 12psi just seems a little dumb to me.... I run 11psi no problems right now on 9.5:1 Compression ratio....And a friend of mine runs 12psi(spikes to 14psi) on a bone stock engine just like mine for Autox(AKA beating the hell out of your car) on 93 octane...

If you can, find out if you can get an ECU tune(basically two 8bit chips soldered onto a daughterboard that fits onto a socket soldered onto your stock ECU. THe chips contain fuel and ignition timing maps already tuned for your setup. So you wouldn't have to worry about retarding timing the right amount. VEry reliable and safe). That would be the best route for someone just getting into turbocharging...

Another thing to do is compression test your engine. Find out if it can hold the air you are putting int it right now before adding more... If its worn out.. then you would only hasten its death by boosting it...

thanks a ton for the help.....nice write up BTW.......

Out of the box the eco has 140h and 150t.
It can handle up to 270hp safely on stock internals. Not sure how much torque it can handle though.

wow, so much awesome information...

so the PSI measurement is of resistance to air flow going into the engine (measured from inside the turbo?) so by doing things like making a wider exhaust / downpipe i actually increase air flow (and torque) but lower the PSI because the air is more free to move through?

now it's on to google to figure out all this other compressor/turbine/wheel measurement stuff that i seem to have absolutely no knowledge of...

thanks everyone for your input, i'm learning a lot from all of you!

You should roll out to the pavallions one of these sat. cipherus and we can take a look at your ride.

i've never been there before... is that in scottsdale or something?

Its just west of the 101 on indian bend. We are always on the look out for more js here in AZ.

i found this pay software that seems to have a lot more compressor maps in their database than on turbofast.com

http://www.turbocalculator.com/

look good?

turbocalculator has been around for a while and if you know how to read compressor maps, it is an awesome site....if you don't know how to read the maps, i'll try to find a like to a write up on Honda tech that explains it.....

and i've been lookin at their site....man they have some good prices!!

i got my corky bell book in the mail the other day and been reading it... man... i have to say that this is the best book ever. i'm not talking like only the most informative collection of data and knowledge in one place, i'm talking like moby dick, romeo and juliet, war and peace... these books have NOTHING on how exciting this book is. and now i completely understand everything nissanfanatic said.. finally heh.

seriously, best book ever for anyone who wants to know anything about turbos. it has everything from how each part works, all the formulas and easy examples, to how to find a car with a good stock turbo, to how to put together your own kit and install it. best purchase i made this year, easily.

Did you get "Maximum Boost" or whatever? I have heard lots about that book, its on my list of shit to buy when I get my Christmas bonus.

http://forums.clubsi.com/showflat.php?Number=4847585

there you go....that's a good site

you can learn a lot on that site!

yea:

"Maximum Boost: Designing, Testing, and Installing Turbocharger Systems" by corky bell. awesome awesome book. very highly recommended.

http://forums.clubsi.com/showflat.php?Number=4847585

there you go....that's a good site

you can learn a lot on that site!


that's a great link, thanks man

that site also helps you make your own oil line kit too.....