We Need Change. Read Please!!!

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=480720

I have taken the liberty at my own expence in saying what I feel is nessary to move on as a community. Please take the time and read what I have to say, and vote. Your Opinions matter most. Please feel free to comment :biggrin:

I voted yes. Hopefully they will look at this seriously, and action will be taken. I must remind people that this is not to bash Josh, he has done all he can with what has been given to him. It is simply a request for someone to help him.

I've already turned in my nomination for a second moderator, and it's being evaluated. I will not say who it is, but i will say it's someone you all KNOW and TRUST.

Scottsee, i haven't gotten respect from you from day one, and i havent expected it from you or anyone. You'll get your second moderator, but most of the stuff you've said today ARE indirect shots at what i've done/trying to do, and would have served better in PM's. If you dont want me as your moderator then dont side step the wording, come right out and say it. That's all i'm going to say in this thread. Vote as you will people...I wont lock either thread.

Scottsee, i haven't gotten respect from you from day one, and i havent expected it from you or anyone. You'll get your second moderator, but most of the stuff you've said today ARE indirect shots at what i've done/trying to do, and would have served better in PM's. If you dont want me as your moderator then dont side step the wording, come right out and say it. That's all i'm going to say in this thread. Vote as you will people...I wont lock either thread.

i voted yes in the poll because i DO believe that a second or even third moderator would help greatly with the growth of the community.

i also agree with josh though too. scotsee, you've posted negative or negative-pointed comments about things josh has done or is doing all the time. also it seems to me that since the banning of jake and joe, your help has turned more or less from technical help to complaining about things that josh has/hasn't done.

the banning of jake/joe hasn't had an impact on just you, everyone in the community feels it. i agree that alot has changed, but losing TWO moderators almost simultaneously that put in lots of hard work into this forum will have a significant impact on the forum. i doubt the form will ever be the same again, whether it be better or worse than it was in the past.

BIG changes take time to fix so just sit back and be patient.

Josh, I can promiss you, this isn't about you, its about the community. I don't know you, and you havn't tryed to get to know us. I respect you and your decisions, what you can, have and will do for us. We just need more help then what you can provide at the moment.

No, those are *not* indirrect, dirrect, or otherwise slanderish remarks about your performance as a moderator. They are evaluations of the forum based off what I see day to day. I'm sorry you feel I don't have respect for you. I do.

This thread is not about you and I, this is about making AF a better community. Lets focus on that.

What ever happend to jake and Joewagon???

Was that poll edited to Moderators only??

Was that poll edited to Moderators only??
No, I think what you're seeing is the edit feature (i.e. add an option/remove and option, change a stat, etc) which is only accessible to moderators.

What ever happend to jake and Joewagon???

they were banned because of their innapropriate behaviors and actions.

haha stttaaappp

i vote yes

I voted yes only because I think this is a huge forum and its not a one person job. I definately have to give Josh props though, I think hes been doing a great job.

I don't think that Josh needs to be removed as moderator. I do think that an extra moderator is necessary. Yeah it gets annoying seeing the same question over and over but that's not going to change. A lot of people come in, ask a stupid question, and never come back. I think people are a little sensitive about spelling and punctuation. If you don't like it, don't reply. If the person posts regularly like that, ignore them. I've been on this forum for longer then most people, and while I don't post a lot, I read almost every day. On a public forum you will always have to deal with dumb people, bad spellin', and reposts. I think while a lot of knowledge was lost with the shake up, the attitude has improved immensely. I think an extra moderator to help move all the stupid posts is the only real change we need. You may not agree with me but I can assure you you're wrong.

Also, if you're going to harp on grammar and spelling, you should probably not make grammar and spelling mistakes in your poll post.

I would like to be a mod. I've got lots of mod experience, and for the most part, a large amount of car experience. Vote me! LOL.

But we do need another one. I'm sick and tired of seeing little kids make a post here and it takes a long time for it to get closed and that person to get banned. It wastes so much time for all of us.

I don't think that Josh needs to be removed as moderator.

No one does, or has asked him to. Why does everyone keep evaluating this as a personal attack on our moderator?

I dont think we need anyone else to Mod, though jake a joewagon will be missed, this forum is still on its feet, and a lot of good info is shared every day! i'm with TED_EX, you guys have to remember, this IS a public Forum. anyone can post. just ignore all stuped posts, and just pm Josh if it really starts to bother you. that way, Josh will have more then just himself watching the Forum. ...but another would be nice... :2cents:

I want all the moderator people back, just like old day :crying:. Mabe they are still reading these topic ( but with different user name, if any of you guy read this, please come back and make this forum more family). :crying:

I voted yes, because I believe that with 2 or more moderators, things would move a lot smoother for everybody. Josh I think your doing a great job I just think your hands are full enough to spread the responsibility to another person or a couple more people.

I want all the moderator people back, just like old day :crying:. Mabe they are still reading these topic ( but with different user name, if any of you guy read this, please come back and make this forum more family). :crying:

shut the fuck up

Lets not have any name calling or any of that, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I'm not going to keep anything from you guys so here is my exact post in the moderator section.

"I think it's time there was a second moderator in the Eclipse section now. I'm doing what i can, but between balancing a new career, a social life, and all the other drama that comes with living on my own, it's getting harder and harder to be in the eclipse section every day. I'm not saying i'm leaving or anything i could just use some help cleaning things up when i'm not around and vice versa. I'm not asking for help from someone who is already a mod, i'm asking for a second mod to help me out."

The thing is, this forum is one of the busiest ones on here. There are a lot of newbies, etc, and things get cluttered. Josh is only one mod, he can only move so many posts/ fix so many problems on here. Like he said, he's busy with the world outside the internet, so he's not on here 24/7. We don't neccessarily need a moderator who knows eclipses inside out (whereas that is only a bonus, nothing more), but rather, someone who is on here enough to sort out mess the newbies who clutter the forum make, and older members who make mistakes now and then. Josh is a great guy, he has my 100% support, but I do agree with the majority vote: Josh needs help sometimes tidying up the forum. Just look at the main forum; people don't even bother posting in the right sub-forums anymore. Newbies are expected to do that, but unfortunately I see a lot of veteran members doing that also. So when all these people start saying shit about how the forum isnt looking neat and clean anymore and Josh needs help, they need to realize that they need to start doing their part by at leat posting in the right forums, and directing the newbies also.

shut the fuck up
:rofl: :rofl:

I voted yes because one is not enough for the volume of post the E/T/L threads get.

Josh is a smart guy. Give him time to learn more.....nobody starts off perfect. :bigthumb:

I have a question, if we have the subforums, then why do we still have a main forum? I tend to stay out of the subforums because it seems like thats where you get all the crazy newbie questions and I think some people that I would want answers from dont even go in there. Also, I think it was |_eclipse_| that said we sould get a classifieds section here. I think thats a good idea. Just my :2cents:.

Even though my post count is very weak, I've been a member of these forums for years now and I check the Eclipse forum almost every day. There has been a lot of change in the recent history. It's going to happen. It's true we did lose a few very knowledgable members but I think the other people of the forum have done an awesome job of stepping up and fielding the questions they can answer. It's inevitable that people are going to come here and ask questions that have already been answered a million times. We were all newbies at one point and we've all asked questions that have posted answers.

The truth is, if we bash them when they come and we seem like a bunch of snobs, those people will never come back/stick around and become knowledgable contributing members. I think the best course of action is to answer all questions, provide links to other discussions and urge (in a friendly way) newcomers to use the search function.

It is not the moderator's job to know everything. It is the moderators job to ensure that AF remains a place where people can go for anything automotive. We are all part of this forum to give and receive help.

Josh, you've done a great job so far. I voted yes because I think this forum has way too much traffic for one person to handle.

Hmmmm..... where to start? I wanted to vote 60% yes and 40% no lol; the dude who started this thread, made me mad that he didn't proof read his shit... come on... if you are going to make a point about grammar, man that shit up then. Josh is doing fine, We cant expect someone to be veiwing these forums every single minute of the day, I really want to hear how you are going to try to stop people from asking the same questions? Like Thor said, and i think eclipse as well, and infact, i have too: MAKE SUB SECTIONS FOR NEWBIES. I mean, the way it is set up now, is just asking for the problem to escalate. You have this huge section of General crap.... then three tiny little threads, for the most important things, Which one will attract the new users attention??? And what really pisses me off... Is people are complaining about spelling and grammar, who the hell cares alright? if it bugs you, shut up, think of other situations for bad typing or grammar, People could have a huge problem and need help fast, no one is going to proof read if they are in a hurry, and don't even say that you would, because you are a flaming liar. And take for example Killer, ( killer you are still my hero) he is on the forums trying to learn ENGLISH!!! (well kinda of) so his crap is going to be a little jummbled. Just calm down a little... The only way i can see people using the search button is if they have too... like they can only read threads, but can't post in them until, they reach 10 ligitamate posts in a NEWBIE section..... but other than that, good luck! As for getting more mods... yes, having a mod with knowledge of the DSM would be awesome, like knowing stuff about the engine parts... No one who asks a normal question like, about Heads and specific questions about how much to port, or what are good aftermarket pistons.... maybe 4-8 people on this forum know anything about anything.... most people comment on how rice people are.... or how they beat a truck.. that should be in a "Lounge" type of sub forum/thread thingy.... Josh i think you are doing the best you can, and i appreciate what you are doing, just keep on truckin josh.

Josh has been in talks with Mike (one of our admins) about getting the classifieds forum. I'm not sure on the specifics, but I believe all that is needed is the final word from Mike and him to add it:smile:.

As for the purpose of the subforums in general, it's really to keep things a little more organized. The main forum is for general stuff about DSM's while the others obviously serve their specific purpose. Ideally, they would all be used as they are assigned which would allow questions that might not normally get attention in the regular forum the attention the deserve from those who are interested in either the performance, non-performance or othwise areas, know what I mean?

Yes, a classified section is a great idea. Maybe also a section specifically for videos, picture, and other random media?

I really haven't had any problems with the forum. Yeah, everyone gets a little annoyed with the newbies. But, no matter where you go you will have newbies at some point in time. They don't know where to post and where to look because they aren't pointed in the right direction. Maybe when they register as a user they should have to read a rules and regulations page and then have it followed by a short questionaire of basic questions. (Example: Q: If you have a question about something, where is the first place you look before posting a new thread? A: Use the search feature.) Also, you have to remember that this is the internet. You will always have someone come in here that wants to use their shorthand and acronyms. It's a given...

Anyways, I believe that Josh is doing a wonderful job as our moderator. But, I understand how hard it can be to juggle school, work, a social life, etc. Throw the job as a moderator in there and it can get pretty crazy. He shouldn't have to devot all his time here. He needs help so that he can continue on being our moderator and living his life as he wants. If I remember correctly, I believe that some of our old moderators got tired of coming here because they were so busy outside of the internet. Of course, many of us know what else happened with Jake and such but that is his own business. Now, they are gone and I'm sure that we don't wanna lose Josh the same way we lost them. Overwhelming them with a million PM's and always bitching about something not being perfect. Life is not perfect and neither in the internet. I stand where I stand... Josh is doing a great job but he shouldn't have to do it all. Let's bring in some help for him.

man back in the day we didnt had no mod's at all in this section. If a newbie went off all crazy, we scared him away in days..:D

I say we do the same shit that we used to do back than! Fuckin' lynch 'em all!! ;)

shut the fuck up

HA :rofl: HA :rofl: HA :rofl: HA :rofl: HA :rofl:

i dont really see where this forum is "out of controll" but in fact i think it runs the same as it did before,who cares about noobs they will always ask the same stupid questions.josh is good enough,say he left for a couple of weeks ,what do you think will happen nothing it will be the same as it was before like chavez said noobs just got flamed untill they smartin up or leave. All of the questions seem to get answered and no one is a wise ass or anything so whats the problem.in my opinion i like it better than before nobody kissing jakes ass, and no smart ass answers to everything, no ones rude,so like i said where is the problem. As we all slowly learn about our cars we will all gain the knowledge that jake had,i think plenty of the people here now have alot to put in to this forum as much as the next guy, jake did not create this nor did wagon so it will go on either way. ok enough of me rambling on so i think were good here,my 2 cents bye

they were banned because of their innapropriate behaviors and actions.
There not comming back either, even if you payed them , they wont do it . Myself , Jake ,Joe ,Joe M. and lando have moved on. i drop by every once in a while but, we all have moved on to bigger and better forums. Altho i think kevin still drops around some times. Honesty, not to sway anyones opinion but this is just a little cornor of a giant website/forum. like a car shop that works on everything under the sun. wouldnt you feel better taking your car to a DSM shop. there are a lot of dsm specific forums out there, wouldnt you feel better about the information that your reciving from a all DSM forum? i know that i do ,and so do alot of olther old skoolers here.
But this is not the end for me, i might return if this Sub-forum becomes a fraction of what it uesd to be.

-Jake

In my opinion, and not to take away from any of the other knowledgeable members that we have. One of the smartest members on this site frequents this forum. drdisque

And i think this thread has run it's course as well.