Things to do when the head is out?
spyderturbo007
11-09-2005, 07:50 AM
Well, I am having my first problem with the Spyder. I have an antifreeze leak with the connection between the water pump outlet and the main coolant line that connects to the thermostat housing.
My mechanic and I decided to pull the head in the spring, because I have her stored for the winter. I would do it myself, but my mechanic owes me 11 hours of labor and has agreed to "pick up the tab" if I go over in labor. So all I have to do is buy the parts. :naughty:
Anyway, I was planning on having the following done while the head is out:
1. Timing belt and all associated components.
2. Water pump and main coolant line, if necessary.
3. Mitsubishi metal head gasket.
http://www.extremepsi.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=17779&cat=710&page=1
4. ARP head studs.
http://www.extremepsi.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=17034&cat=555&page=1
5. FP CAM2 intake and exhaust.
http://linux.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FP&Product_Code=FPCamInt&Category_Code=DSM
Here are my questions:
1. Should I get adjustable CAM gears, or is that a waste of money?
2. Is that HG going to be able to handle high pressures if I upgrade to a larger turbo down the road, or just decide to turn up the boost on the 16g to 25psi?
3. What else should I have done?
I see that some people have oversized valves, SS valves, 3 angle valve jobs, etc. Are any of those things worth the money?
Also, FP has listed that some of their CAMS require upgraded valve springs. Is that something I should look into or not as the FP CAM2's are compatible with stock springs?
Thanks guys/gals.
My mechanic and I decided to pull the head in the spring, because I have her stored for the winter. I would do it myself, but my mechanic owes me 11 hours of labor and has agreed to "pick up the tab" if I go over in labor. So all I have to do is buy the parts. :naughty:
Anyway, I was planning on having the following done while the head is out:
1. Timing belt and all associated components.
2. Water pump and main coolant line, if necessary.
3. Mitsubishi metal head gasket.
http://www.extremepsi.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=17779&cat=710&page=1
4. ARP head studs.
http://www.extremepsi.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=17034&cat=555&page=1
5. FP CAM2 intake and exhaust.
http://linux.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FP&Product_Code=FPCamInt&Category_Code=DSM
Here are my questions:
1. Should I get adjustable CAM gears, or is that a waste of money?
2. Is that HG going to be able to handle high pressures if I upgrade to a larger turbo down the road, or just decide to turn up the boost on the 16g to 25psi?
3. What else should I have done?
I see that some people have oversized valves, SS valves, 3 angle valve jobs, etc. Are any of those things worth the money?
Also, FP has listed that some of their CAMS require upgraded valve springs. Is that something I should look into or not as the FP CAM2's are compatible with stock springs?
Thanks guys/gals.
Blackcrow64
11-09-2005, 09:38 AM
You don't really need adjustable CAM gears unless you are planning on changing your timing a lot for tuning. At least thats what I understand as their only real purpous.
The head gasket is just a matter of luck. Sometimes you get lucky and it can handle 20psi sometimes it can't and blows out. I think the multi layered head gaskets are the best ones to use for reliability when building high boost.
As for the internals of the head, I'm not real sure about all the valve jobs and such. I'm sure they all help to make it more reliable and strong enough to handle any power you throw at it. My friend put titanium springs in with his FP CAMs.
I guess you can look at it this way... Do you really wanna have to take it all apart again and do it all over correctly a second time? Not me, that's why I am collecting all my parts before I do anything. Heck, I'm not even gonna mess around with my 7 bolt. I'm gonna build up a 6 bolt outside of the car and I'm gonna build up every aspect of it to be able to handle anything I throw at it. Then I'll just drop it in and have myself a highly reliable engine that has all the power I want too. All because I don't wanna have to take it apart again. Someone in here once said "Mod cheap, mod twice." From that moment on, I knew I should do it all right the first time or not do it at all.
But, that's just my thought about it. Some people don't plan on building up a race engine and that's fine too. It's all up to what you really wanna get out of it. (I guess I'm trying to convince you to build it all up the first time. lol :iceslolan )
The head gasket is just a matter of luck. Sometimes you get lucky and it can handle 20psi sometimes it can't and blows out. I think the multi layered head gaskets are the best ones to use for reliability when building high boost.
As for the internals of the head, I'm not real sure about all the valve jobs and such. I'm sure they all help to make it more reliable and strong enough to handle any power you throw at it. My friend put titanium springs in with his FP CAMs.
I guess you can look at it this way... Do you really wanna have to take it all apart again and do it all over correctly a second time? Not me, that's why I am collecting all my parts before I do anything. Heck, I'm not even gonna mess around with my 7 bolt. I'm gonna build up a 6 bolt outside of the car and I'm gonna build up every aspect of it to be able to handle anything I throw at it. Then I'll just drop it in and have myself a highly reliable engine that has all the power I want too. All because I don't wanna have to take it apart again. Someone in here once said "Mod cheap, mod twice." From that moment on, I knew I should do it all right the first time or not do it at all.
But, that's just my thought about it. Some people don't plan on building up a race engine and that's fine too. It's all up to what you really wanna get out of it. (I guess I'm trying to convince you to build it all up the first time. lol :iceslolan )
scottsee
11-09-2005, 11:06 PM
Good questions.
You already know why ARP head studs are far supperiour then our factory haad bolts. Those prices though are horrendes. Try "Buy it Now" on ebay for $90.
Those FP2 cams are simply bad ass, their lift durration and overlap are perfect. Agian, I'm sure you know their shared simularities with the 272 HKS grinds. The only consirn I have heard about those are the Intake cams being to big, allowing exhaust pressure into the manny, distroting turbulane, idle, Exc. the FP1 intake cam with FP2 exhasut cam would simply help exhaust get out more effecntly, but now were getting into the whole 262/272 debate he have heard a 100 times. You all ready know what you want out of a camshaft. FP1 will blow our stock cams out of existance, FP2 cams on an evo16 will be minimal at best. But with a larger turbo on the way, get them. Cam's do require new lifters to be installed, they need to be soaked in oil overnight prior to installation. Stiffer springs would be recomended with race grinds. Floating valves are bad news. Unless your going above 8000rpm you can probably get away with your stock springs if they are still in spec.
I persoanly plan on getting a cheap set of ajustable cam gears from fidenza or aem. I've read about susesfull results in retarding of the intake cam to help compensate for Idle, overlap, and improved timing with these larger cams.
Under cutting the valves weakens the strength of the valve by shaving the shaft of the valve down to allow for less airflow resistance. Another debat. Some valves are not recomended for under cutting becasue of the meterial used inside the valve to reduce heat. A simple nitrated, swirl finish valve will hold up very well. I'll probably end up with Ferria vlaves.
The Head Gaskets are up to you. The most important thing is getting a correct seal. Making sure the head/deck surface is correct for the type of gasket used. With ARP studs I don't ever see a problem with Mitsubishi headgasket and 25psi on your evo16. The power stroke, cylinder pressure shouldn't come close to exceding the fault talarences of the gasket. Unless your getting pre-ignition from excessive heat. Then better your gasket then piston or valve. I personaly like the price and reliability I hear about Cometic. It costs around $100 which is acceptable to me, but does reqire a supper smooth RA-30 finish on the head/deck to seal perfectly. I have one going into my 6bolt stroker in the garage.
save your $$ don't bother with oversized valves. I was told by SBR that they are not needed untill upewards of 50lb/min or 700ish CFM. I'm pretty sure 3 angle jobs are standerd on our heads. You can pick up a little better flow by grinding the valve seat more letting the valve stay open longer & polishing the exhaust ports. You obviously want rough intake ports for mixure.
You already know why ARP head studs are far supperiour then our factory haad bolts. Those prices though are horrendes. Try "Buy it Now" on ebay for $90.
Those FP2 cams are simply bad ass, their lift durration and overlap are perfect. Agian, I'm sure you know their shared simularities with the 272 HKS grinds. The only consirn I have heard about those are the Intake cams being to big, allowing exhaust pressure into the manny, distroting turbulane, idle, Exc. the FP1 intake cam with FP2 exhasut cam would simply help exhaust get out more effecntly, but now were getting into the whole 262/272 debate he have heard a 100 times. You all ready know what you want out of a camshaft. FP1 will blow our stock cams out of existance, FP2 cams on an evo16 will be minimal at best. But with a larger turbo on the way, get them. Cam's do require new lifters to be installed, they need to be soaked in oil overnight prior to installation. Stiffer springs would be recomended with race grinds. Floating valves are bad news. Unless your going above 8000rpm you can probably get away with your stock springs if they are still in spec.
I persoanly plan on getting a cheap set of ajustable cam gears from fidenza or aem. I've read about susesfull results in retarding of the intake cam to help compensate for Idle, overlap, and improved timing with these larger cams.
Under cutting the valves weakens the strength of the valve by shaving the shaft of the valve down to allow for less airflow resistance. Another debat. Some valves are not recomended for under cutting becasue of the meterial used inside the valve to reduce heat. A simple nitrated, swirl finish valve will hold up very well. I'll probably end up with Ferria vlaves.
The Head Gaskets are up to you. The most important thing is getting a correct seal. Making sure the head/deck surface is correct for the type of gasket used. With ARP studs I don't ever see a problem with Mitsubishi headgasket and 25psi on your evo16. The power stroke, cylinder pressure shouldn't come close to exceding the fault talarences of the gasket. Unless your getting pre-ignition from excessive heat. Then better your gasket then piston or valve. I personaly like the price and reliability I hear about Cometic. It costs around $100 which is acceptable to me, but does reqire a supper smooth RA-30 finish on the head/deck to seal perfectly. I have one going into my 6bolt stroker in the garage.
save your $$ don't bother with oversized valves. I was told by SBR that they are not needed untill upewards of 50lb/min or 700ish CFM. I'm pretty sure 3 angle jobs are standerd on our heads. You can pick up a little better flow by grinding the valve seat more letting the valve stay open longer & polishing the exhaust ports. You obviously want rough intake ports for mixure.
Shpyder
11-10-2005, 02:56 AM
For question 3, a similar thing I poseted ages ago migt help:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=269248&highlight=timing+belt+changed
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=269248&highlight=timing+belt+changed
gthompson97
11-10-2005, 06:02 AM
polishing the exhaust ports. You obviously want rough intake ports for mixure.
i wouldn't go as far as saying "rough" exhaust ports, that might throw some people off, but you don't want it to be as smooth and shiny as the exhaust ports. you'll want them to be a little more "gritty" and less smooth for better atomization. i would say that the die grinder will leave a "rough" enough surface so don't screw around with smoothening them out too much. but the exhaust ports you can sand 'em down with like 600 grit and when you can see yourself in them you know you've done a good job. :)
i wouldn't go as far as saying "rough" exhaust ports, that might throw some people off, but you don't want it to be as smooth and shiny as the exhaust ports. you'll want them to be a little more "gritty" and less smooth for better atomization. i would say that the die grinder will leave a "rough" enough surface so don't screw around with smoothening them out too much. but the exhaust ports you can sand 'em down with like 600 grit and when you can see yourself in them you know you've done a good job. :)
Thor06
11-10-2005, 08:47 AM
Wow, what a thread, I was going to start one just like this in a week or two when I get my project head! Youl could always do a port and polish. I would suggest the springs, I have been put under the impression that they should be done when you change your cams. What about brass valve guides? Are they worth it? Are the rockers ok? While you're in there you could get 3g lifters to get rid of the lifter tick if you have it.
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