Trying to get a handle on this lift stuff and...
Lugnut
08-01-2001, 03:53 PM
Ok, it's indulge the newbie time. I've been following the various threads and trying to get a handle on the lifts. So just when I think I'm about to order the Cal Mini setup (since it appears all inclusive)...along comes Philosopher and his posts.
So it looks like he's cranked the new T-bars up and added the AAL springs. Is it really that important to change the upper ball joint and a-arm due to the increased angle...or is this one of those "gee it would be nice" kind of things?
From what I've gathered, it looks like the true increase in front ride height is really through adjusting the T-bars and that the new a-arms have nothing to do with this? Or do they allow you a little more room for adjustment? Also, I can't tell for sure who the preferred T-bar manufacturer as it looks like there's been a couple selected...or is there?
My driving is 80% on highway and 20% offroad..but hope to start shifting that balance towards a 50/50 split.
TIA for any input as I want to make an educated decision and avoid the Synchro dilemma (you know...damn, damn...).
Lug
:bathroom:
So it looks like he's cranked the new T-bars up and added the AAL springs. Is it really that important to change the upper ball joint and a-arm due to the increased angle...or is this one of those "gee it would be nice" kind of things?
From what I've gathered, it looks like the true increase in front ride height is really through adjusting the T-bars and that the new a-arms have nothing to do with this? Or do they allow you a little more room for adjustment? Also, I can't tell for sure who the preferred T-bar manufacturer as it looks like there's been a couple selected...or is there?
My driving is 80% on highway and 20% offroad..but hope to start shifting that balance towards a 50/50 split.
TIA for any input as I want to make an educated decision and avoid the Synchro dilemma (you know...damn, damn...).
Lug
:bathroom:
gothamist
08-01-2001, 04:03 PM
With the lift kit, you gain three main things:
1) downtravel (and the nice ride of having downtravel again comes back)
2) ability to return alignment to factory specifications (or at least an order of magnitude closer)
3) a bit of height.
If I were to crank my torsion bars up to the level I have my truck at now (with the AC lift installed), my stock upper a-arms would be compressing the bumpstops into tiny pancakes, and I would have NO downtravel left. The ride would suck, tire wear would suck, and I would bounce around and probably break stuff offroad more frequently.
There are only two torsion bar manufacturers, Sway-A-way (who makes the NisMo bars), and SLR...maybe Calmini (do they make their own???) The SLR bars are double the cost of the NisMo/SAW ones. Not sure of anyone who's actually bought them.
I like my AC kit. I'm not a fan of Calmini as of yet (still waiting for an original product that I actually like), but to each their own.
1) downtravel (and the nice ride of having downtravel again comes back)
2) ability to return alignment to factory specifications (or at least an order of magnitude closer)
3) a bit of height.
If I were to crank my torsion bars up to the level I have my truck at now (with the AC lift installed), my stock upper a-arms would be compressing the bumpstops into tiny pancakes, and I would have NO downtravel left. The ride would suck, tire wear would suck, and I would bounce around and probably break stuff offroad more frequently.
There are only two torsion bar manufacturers, Sway-A-way (who makes the NisMo bars), and SLR...maybe Calmini (do they make their own???) The SLR bars are double the cost of the NisMo/SAW ones. Not sure of anyone who's actually bought them.
I like my AC kit. I'm not a fan of Calmini as of yet (still waiting for an original product that I actually like), but to each their own.
warmonger
08-01-2001, 08:47 PM
Calmini's kit is nowhere near all-inclusive. First, it doesn't offer a rear spring pack option. If you plan on putting larger tires on or a locker, you BETTER get a spring pack. Otherwise the wheel hop is going to break something.
It also doesn't include a diff drop as does the SLR kit. This will help relieve driveaxle angularity and reduce vibration from the extreme angles on the drive axles after the lift. It is not absolutely necessary, but if you are building a truck for serious off-roading, I wouldn't be without it.
What you need to evaluate is what you plan to do with your truck. Do you want it all show or all go? Will you build it to show and then head out with your buddies and trash it while you try to keep up with them? Do you plan on adding a winch, bigger tires (that spare is going to REALLY suck hung under that X if it's a 11.50 or wider tire) or a locker? What you buy hinges on all those things. I HIGHLY recommend you look closely at them and then decide where you want to go.
It also doesn't include a diff drop as does the SLR kit. This will help relieve driveaxle angularity and reduce vibration from the extreme angles on the drive axles after the lift. It is not absolutely necessary, but if you are building a truck for serious off-roading, I wouldn't be without it.
What you need to evaluate is what you plan to do with your truck. Do you want it all show or all go? Will you build it to show and then head out with your buddies and trash it while you try to keep up with them? Do you plan on adding a winch, bigger tires (that spare is going to REALLY suck hung under that X if it's a 11.50 or wider tire) or a locker? What you buy hinges on all those things. I HIGHLY recommend you look closely at them and then decide where you want to go.
gothamist
08-02-2001, 02:35 AM
Originally posted by warmonger
It also doesn't include a diff drop as does the SLR kit. This will help relieve driveaxle angularity and reduce vibration from the extreme angles on the drive axles after the lift. It is not absolutely necessary, but if you are building a truck for serious off-roading, I wouldn't be without it.
Umm, I don't see how the diff drop would reduce vibration, and it seems to me more likely to increase driveline vibration (look at Ian Firth's experience, although he did say the vibration is minor.) The front driveshaft angle isn't changing on our trucks due to IFS (front diff + transfer case being fixed relative to each other except for when you do use a diff drop), so therefore the only angles that increase with the lift kit are the angles of the CV joints. I am not aware of steeper CV joint angles causing vibration, are you saying this can happen? Do you know of it happening? The steeper angles (esp. those approaching 22 degrees) will wear out the CV joints faster though.
p.s. If you're building a truck for "serious off-roading" you picked the wrong platform to start with! I offroad to have fun. :)
(Just messing with you...)
It also doesn't include a diff drop as does the SLR kit. This will help relieve driveaxle angularity and reduce vibration from the extreme angles on the drive axles after the lift. It is not absolutely necessary, but if you are building a truck for serious off-roading, I wouldn't be without it.
Umm, I don't see how the diff drop would reduce vibration, and it seems to me more likely to increase driveline vibration (look at Ian Firth's experience, although he did say the vibration is minor.) The front driveshaft angle isn't changing on our trucks due to IFS (front diff + transfer case being fixed relative to each other except for when you do use a diff drop), so therefore the only angles that increase with the lift kit are the angles of the CV joints. I am not aware of steeper CV joint angles causing vibration, are you saying this can happen? Do you know of it happening? The steeper angles (esp. those approaching 22 degrees) will wear out the CV joints faster though.
p.s. If you're building a truck for "serious off-roading" you picked the wrong platform to start with! I offroad to have fun. :)
(Just messing with you...)
warmonger
08-02-2001, 05:37 AM
Gothamist,
I didn't say driveshaft angularity, I said driveaxle angularity. There is a difference. And yes, I know about Ian's experience.
Driveaxle angularity can cause vibration as well as excessive CV Joint wear. After reading Ian's write-up on the SLR suspension and the problem he had with a slight vibration with the hubs engaged, I believe I know why it occurs. Although this is speculation, it is based on years of doing vibration diagnosis at automotive dealerships. I am willing to bet the vibration is coming from the reduced bushing size between the frame mount and the differential.
If you will notice in the GM IFS lift kits, the entire diff and mounting assembly is dropped. In the SLR kit is dropped by removing the centered mounting bushing and installing an off-center mounting bushing. This puts the diff closer to the frame. The less rubber between the frame and diff, the more vibration will be transferred during operation of the diff. Since all gear parts move with the hubs locked, this will occur whether in 4WD or not. But the reduced driveaxle angle is far superior than some of the angles I have seen in other lift kits.
As for the "serious off-roading" comment you made, I agree. But I consider the off-roading I do serious, albeit with limitations. I want my truck to be the best it can be for what I use it for. I know I won't ever crush cars with it, but I do need it to get me through heavy snow, sand and mud if needed.
I didn't say driveshaft angularity, I said driveaxle angularity. There is a difference. And yes, I know about Ian's experience.
Driveaxle angularity can cause vibration as well as excessive CV Joint wear. After reading Ian's write-up on the SLR suspension and the problem he had with a slight vibration with the hubs engaged, I believe I know why it occurs. Although this is speculation, it is based on years of doing vibration diagnosis at automotive dealerships. I am willing to bet the vibration is coming from the reduced bushing size between the frame mount and the differential.
If you will notice in the GM IFS lift kits, the entire diff and mounting assembly is dropped. In the SLR kit is dropped by removing the centered mounting bushing and installing an off-center mounting bushing. This puts the diff closer to the frame. The less rubber between the frame and diff, the more vibration will be transferred during operation of the diff. Since all gear parts move with the hubs locked, this will occur whether in 4WD or not. But the reduced driveaxle angle is far superior than some of the angles I have seen in other lift kits.
As for the "serious off-roading" comment you made, I agree. But I consider the off-roading I do serious, albeit with limitations. I want my truck to be the best it can be for what I use it for. I know I won't ever crush cars with it, but I do need it to get me through heavy snow, sand and mud if needed.
Sgt_Lobo
08-02-2001, 08:18 AM
Originally posted by warmonger
I want my truck to be the best it can be for what I use it for. I know I won't ever crush cars with it, but I do need it to get me through heavy snow, sand and mud if needed.
Yeah, I know what you mean. With all the heavy snow we get here in Mississippi and Florida, it's nice to have a truck that can handle it! :D
I want my truck to be the best it can be for what I use it for. I know I won't ever crush cars with it, but I do need it to get me through heavy snow, sand and mud if needed.
Yeah, I know what you mean. With all the heavy snow we get here in Mississippi and Florida, it's nice to have a truck that can handle it! :D
gothamist
08-02-2001, 09:38 AM
War--I'm with you now. What you're saying makes sense, although Ian does say on his XOC writeup that the vibration is in part also because the bushings change from rubber to Delron.
I would be more concerned with dropping the diff to reduce wear and vibration if people were having complaints about vibration and were blowing out CV's who were running the AC/Calmini/Rancho kits. As of yet the only trucks that have broken CV's on the trail (that I know of) are Pikachu's and SLR's (Pik's was unlifted, SLR's was running their lift.)
I would be more concerned with dropping the diff to reduce wear and vibration if people were having complaints about vibration and were blowing out CV's who were running the AC/Calmini/Rancho kits. As of yet the only trucks that have broken CV's on the trail (that I know of) are Pikachu's and SLR's (Pik's was unlifted, SLR's was running their lift.)
Lugnut
08-02-2001, 12:21 PM
Thanks for the info. and feedback. I figured that since a lot of you guys were running w/ the AAL's...then that should be fine for my light offroading too. Also, I don't have a company car anymore (DOH) which means the X has to do double duty as a commuter. From Gothamist's comments, it looks like you need to go the whole nine yards to do it right...so now it's just a matter of settling on a kit...thanks again.
Lug
Lug
FSRBIKER
08-02-2001, 12:36 PM
From the only review of Calmini's kit which was in 4 Wheel Drive & Sport Utility magazine there was not increase in articulation/travel up front...if this is true(and no one has denied it) then stay away from this kit unless you are going for looks. BTW Calmini uses Rancho 5000 shocks painted blue, there torsion bars I believe are the Sway Away ones..again painted blue. I have an idea to reduce the angle of the axle shafts, I just need to do some more research if it will work for the X/Frontier.
Schludwiller
08-02-2001, 01:55 PM
I'm at work so I can't get out and look under my truck, but don't larger tires reduce the CV joint angle too?
Seems like they would.
I would be curious to see the angle difference between an SLR lifted truck with 32's, and a stock Xterra with Long Trails.
Seems like they would.
I would be curious to see the angle difference between an SLR lifted truck with 32's, and a stock Xterra with Long Trails.
OffroadX
08-02-2001, 01:59 PM
AFAIK, tires should not affect the geometry at all.
Brent
Brent
FSRBIKER
08-02-2001, 02:16 PM
Your right Brent it shouldn't since all you did was add taller tires that effectively increased your ground clearance...everything went up...but to run 32's we all adjusted the torsion bars so i guess the answer would be no with 31's.
Lugnut
08-02-2001, 02:18 PM
FSRBiker's comment is the type of thing I'm trying to get cleared up in my mind. I've sifted through over a hundred posts (Mosi, Synchro, SgtLobo, Gothamist, etc.) to gather info and it seems that everyone has a different approach. Me thinks I should put together a matrix to simplify the selection process and save the group from this question again. I tried to find the 4 wheel mag mentioned but it was already gone off the stands @ a couple places...but the new question is what is the difference between say SLR/AC and Calmini such that travel IS increased?
Thanks...and I'll capture all of this to place into a faq.
Lug
Thanks...and I'll capture all of this to place into a faq.
Lug
Philosopher
08-02-2001, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by Lugnut
it looks like you need to go the whole nine yards to do it right...
Exactly right.
it looks like you need to go the whole nine yards to do it right...
Exactly right.
wqbang
08-02-2001, 02:50 PM
Lugnut,
Don't "save the group from this question again". These questions are what this forum is about. :)
If you want to work on the truck in stages, you can do exactly what Schlud, MT, gothamist, synchro, and mosi have done. Do it incrementally. Shocks first, add a leafs and torsion bars, then A-arms and ball joints. Just be sure to keep the torsion lift to a minimum without replacing the A-arms. no more than 1.5" - 2" inches in the front. You could even consider the 2" lift shackles instead of add-a-leafs, although I think the add-a-leafs would be better in the long run. This method also gives you the benefit of getting the exact components that you want for a lift.
Remember, you can run 32's with minor torsion bar adjustment, unless of course you have an ARB and your bars are sagging.....
Don't "save the group from this question again". These questions are what this forum is about. :)
If you want to work on the truck in stages, you can do exactly what Schlud, MT, gothamist, synchro, and mosi have done. Do it incrementally. Shocks first, add a leafs and torsion bars, then A-arms and ball joints. Just be sure to keep the torsion lift to a minimum without replacing the A-arms. no more than 1.5" - 2" inches in the front. You could even consider the 2" lift shackles instead of add-a-leafs, although I think the add-a-leafs would be better in the long run. This method also gives you the benefit of getting the exact components that you want for a lift.
Remember, you can run 32's with minor torsion bar adjustment, unless of course you have an ARB and your bars are sagging.....
Schludwiller
08-02-2001, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by FSRBIKER
Your right Brent it shouldn't since all you did was add taller tires that effectively increased your ground clearance...everything went up...but to run 32's we all adjusted the torsion bars so i guess the answer would be no with 31's.
Oh yeah, you're right. There was something in the back of my head that was saying it doesn't work that way, but oh well...not enough caffeine yet.
What if you put a 4 ton rock on your truck would that help? :D
Your right Brent it shouldn't since all you did was add taller tires that effectively increased your ground clearance...everything went up...but to run 32's we all adjusted the torsion bars so i guess the answer would be no with 31's.
Oh yeah, you're right. There was something in the back of my head that was saying it doesn't work that way, but oh well...not enough caffeine yet.
What if you put a 4 ton rock on your truck would that help? :D
Schludwiller
08-02-2001, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by wqbang
Lugnut,
Don't "save the group from this question again". These questions are what this forum is about. :)
Absolutely! I don't want people to be afraid of asking questions here on the board. I was impressed by all the information that was given to Lugnut in a helpful manner.
Keep it up.
Lugnut,
Don't "save the group from this question again". These questions are what this forum is about. :)
Absolutely! I don't want people to be afraid of asking questions here on the board. I was impressed by all the information that was given to Lugnut in a helpful manner.
Keep it up.
Lugnut
08-02-2001, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by Schludwiller
Absolutely! I don't want people to be afraid of asking questions here on the board. I was impressed by all the information that was given to Lugnut in a helpful manner.
Keep it up.
Agree, glad to see all of the helpful input instead of the typical "watcha talk'n 'bout fool" responses found in other forums.
Lug
Absolutely! I don't want people to be afraid of asking questions here on the board. I was impressed by all the information that was given to Lugnut in a helpful manner.
Keep it up.
Agree, glad to see all of the helpful input instead of the typical "watcha talk'n 'bout fool" responses found in other forums.
Lug
wqbang
08-02-2001, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by Lugnut
typical "watcha talk'n 'bout fool" responses found in other forums.
Yep. It is amazing what proper English can do for your credibility. :D
typical "watcha talk'n 'bout fool" responses found in other forums.
Yep. It is amazing what proper English can do for your credibility. :D
jnapier
08-02-2001, 06:53 PM
Maybe Schlud was talking about running 31's up front and 32's in the back :D--Then that would reduce the cv joint stress:rolleyes:
Originally posted by FSRBIKER
Your right Brent it shouldn't since all you did was add taller tires that effectively increased your ground clearance...everything went up...but to run 32's we all adjusted the torsion bars so i guess the answer would be no with 31's.
Originally posted by FSRBIKER
Your right Brent it shouldn't since all you did was add taller tires that effectively increased your ground clearance...everything went up...but to run 32's we all adjusted the torsion bars so i guess the answer would be no with 31's.
warmonger
08-02-2001, 08:50 PM
One of the things I like about this site is the higher level of discussions going on. Instead of analyzing the fit of floor mats, we are discussing the virtues of one lift kit vs. another and comparing each others serious modifications to come up with ideas. I was taken to task recently by a newbie on one bulletin board for the rarity of my posts there. I only look for topics that truly interest me. I am not interested in speculation on whether 38" tires can be feasibly fit on an X or whether the Husky Liner mats are cut correctly. I am here because I have found a group of people who are as serious about how their truck performs both on road and off as I am. To me that is important. I have off-roaded with some of you and highly respect your abilities. I think that in itself is testimony to the quality of this board. If you are serious about your truck, this is the place to be.
gothamist
08-03-2001, 01:00 AM
This has become by far my favorite board for information...Voy/ITW is still the best for flame wars, but I too am quite appreciative of Schlud's efforts to make this board a useful resource.
The fact we're all a little crazy definitely helps, too. :D
The fact we're all a little crazy definitely helps, too. :D
rrdstarr
08-03-2001, 01:11 AM
I really enjoy using this board! You don't get flamed for asking questions or "Go use search FNG!"
You get answers clearly and concisely. :flash:
You get answers clearly and concisely. :flash:
Whistler!
08-03-2001, 02:11 AM
I totally agree with Ian & Rick...Other boards hammer you if you seem to ask the wrong question and then post it...Sometimes, I wish it had a spellchecker...:wave:
Schludwiller
08-03-2001, 04:38 AM
Thanks guys,
Glad this is working well for everyone, but let's end the cudos before I have to trim this thread again. ;)
Glad this is working well for everyone, but let's end the cudos before I have to trim this thread again. ;)
gothamist
08-03-2001, 01:24 PM
I was thinking about what I did and what I've learned from it, and if I had to do it over again, I would probably do this:
1. Get stiffer torsion bars, f&r shocks, and add-a-leafs
2. Worry about the other mods (assuming tires are taken care of, skids, sliders, bumpers, etc.)
3. Then look into the upper a-arms/balljoints/etc.
I know you want everything in a kit form, but honestly I am glad I had the flexibility to do the mods in the order I did (be it due to personal choice or trail damage...)
You can also wheel your truck very very well with just the first set of suspension mods listed, many of us have done/are doing that right now (the whole modified MAXC group, for one...and trust me, when we wheel hard, we get it ON!)
1. Get stiffer torsion bars, f&r shocks, and add-a-leafs
2. Worry about the other mods (assuming tires are taken care of, skids, sliders, bumpers, etc.)
3. Then look into the upper a-arms/balljoints/etc.
I know you want everything in a kit form, but honestly I am glad I had the flexibility to do the mods in the order I did (be it due to personal choice or trail damage...)
You can also wheel your truck very very well with just the first set of suspension mods listed, many of us have done/are doing that right now (the whole modified MAXC group, for one...and trust me, when we wheel hard, we get it ON!)
Lugnut
08-03-2001, 01:38 PM
Gothamist...this is perfect feedback and exactly what I was looking for. After trolling several groups and messages for a while it seemed that a lot of the wheelers were doing it this way...step by step...which is why I asked early on how important was it for some of the components.
I may just go ahead and order the aal & t-bars today (btw, the t-bar install guide is muy bueno and will make the job much easier). Now if I could just find some of those old Pathy aluminum rims at a decent price (with center caps!) this would be a good Friday.
Thanks to everyone.
:ylsuper
I may just go ahead and order the aal & t-bars today (btw, the t-bar install guide is muy bueno and will make the job much easier). Now if I could just find some of those old Pathy aluminum rims at a decent price (with center caps!) this would be a good Friday.
Thanks to everyone.
:ylsuper
Philosopher
08-03-2001, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by Lugnut
Now if I could just find some of those old Pathy aluminum rims at a decent price (with center caps!) this would be a good Friday.
You mean these rims? Or are you looking for the OLD Pathy rims?
Now if I could just find some of those old Pathy aluminum rims at a decent price (with center caps!) this would be a good Friday.
You mean these rims? Or are you looking for the OLD Pathy rims?
Lugnut
08-03-2001, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by Philosopher
You mean these rims? Or are you looking for the OLD Pathy rims?
Yes, the "old" ones from '88 or so. For whatever reason I've always liked them and think they'd look good on the X. Have found some in the past but they were either pretty beat up and/or missing center caps. Called on an ad yesterday but haven't got a return call yet.
Lug
You mean these rims? Or are you looking for the OLD Pathy rims?
Yes, the "old" ones from '88 or so. For whatever reason I've always liked them and think they'd look good on the X. Have found some in the past but they were either pretty beat up and/or missing center caps. Called on an ad yesterday but haven't got a return call yet.
Lug
Matt Peckham
01-16-2002, 07:48 PM
Lugnut said:
FSRBiker's comment is the type of thing I'm trying to get cleared up in my mind. I've sifted through over a hundred posts (Mosi, Synchro, SgtLobo, Gothamist, etc.) to gather info and it seems that everyone has a different approach. Me thinks I should put together a matrix to simplify the selection process and save the group from this question again. I tried to find the 4 wheel mag mentioned but it was already gone off the stands @ a couple places...but the new question is what is the difference between say SLR/AC and Calmini such that travel IS increased?
to bring this up again, FSR's is the only mention I have seen about this. Where else is it documented? I looked in the 4WD&SUV article and there's nithing that mentions it. So I want to know, what physically limits the Calmini A arms and hi angle ball joints?
FSRBiker's comment is the type of thing I'm trying to get cleared up in my mind. I've sifted through over a hundred posts (Mosi, Synchro, SgtLobo, Gothamist, etc.) to gather info and it seems that everyone has a different approach. Me thinks I should put together a matrix to simplify the selection process and save the group from this question again. I tried to find the 4 wheel mag mentioned but it was already gone off the stands @ a couple places...but the new question is what is the difference between say SLR/AC and Calmini such that travel IS increased?
to bring this up again, FSR's is the only mention I have seen about this. Where else is it documented? I looked in the 4WD&SUV article and there's nithing that mentions it. So I want to know, what physically limits the Calmini A arms and hi angle ball joints?
FSRBIKER
01-16-2002, 10:30 PM
Matt it is in the August issue, the online version is not the complete article and the "no gain in travel/articulation" comment is amazingly deleted in the online article.
Philosopher
01-17-2002, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by FSRBIKER
Matt it is in the August issue, the online version is not the complete article and the "no gain in travel/articulation" comment is amazingly deleted in the online article.
That is exactly what Steve told me on the phone months and months ago - NO gain in articulation at all, just room for bigger tires.
Matt it is in the August issue, the online version is not the complete article and the "no gain in travel/articulation" comment is amazingly deleted in the online article.
That is exactly what Steve told me on the phone months and months ago - NO gain in articulation at all, just room for bigger tires.
ScottG
01-18-2002, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by Philosopher
That is exactly what Steve told me on the phone months and months ago - NO gain in articulation at all, just room for bigger tires.
Philo,
In your opinion are all the lifts about the same in this respect, or does either SLR or AC offer more travel and articulation than Calmini?
I had been thinking that the only real difference in the SLR lift was the differential drop. I had not thought about possible articulation advantages.
Thanks,
Scott
That is exactly what Steve told me on the phone months and months ago - NO gain in articulation at all, just room for bigger tires.
Philo,
In your opinion are all the lifts about the same in this respect, or does either SLR or AC offer more travel and articulation than Calmini?
I had been thinking that the only real difference in the SLR lift was the differential drop. I had not thought about possible articulation advantages.
Thanks,
Scott
Philosopher
01-18-2002, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by ScottG
Philo,
In your opinion are all the lifts about the same in this respect, or does either SLR or AC offer more travel and articulation than Calmini?
I had been thinking that the only real difference in the SLR lift was the differential drop. I had not thought about possible articulation advantages.
Thanks,
Scott
In my opinion which some folks will dispute:
The SLR kit claims the most travel (don't remember the numbers). I wouldn't bet money on this, but that's what they claim. The drop the diff, which helps CV angles, but that's about it. Some folks with the SLR lift have had problems with their set up. If the SLR kit does in fact offer slightly more articulation than the AC kit then that would offer explanations as to the problems some folks have reported. The AC set up has the same amount of articulation as the SLR kit without the diff drop as far as I know. The AC A-arms and the SLR A-arms are almost identical. I'm sure the SLR A-arms are prettier, but I'm not convinced that they are beefier or made any better.
The Calmini A-arms seem to be the beefiest to me, but with that extra beefiness comes no articulation.
Philo,
In your opinion are all the lifts about the same in this respect, or does either SLR or AC offer more travel and articulation than Calmini?
I had been thinking that the only real difference in the SLR lift was the differential drop. I had not thought about possible articulation advantages.
Thanks,
Scott
In my opinion which some folks will dispute:
The SLR kit claims the most travel (don't remember the numbers). I wouldn't bet money on this, but that's what they claim. The drop the diff, which helps CV angles, but that's about it. Some folks with the SLR lift have had problems with their set up. If the SLR kit does in fact offer slightly more articulation than the AC kit then that would offer explanations as to the problems some folks have reported. The AC set up has the same amount of articulation as the SLR kit without the diff drop as far as I know. The AC A-arms and the SLR A-arms are almost identical. I'm sure the SLR A-arms are prettier, but I'm not convinced that they are beefier or made any better.
The Calmini A-arms seem to be the beefiest to me, but with that extra beefiness comes no articulation.
ScottG
01-18-2002, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by Philosopher
In my opinion which some folks will dispute:
The SLR kit claims the most travel (don't remember the numbers). I wouldn't bet money on this, but that's what they claim. The drop the diff, which helps CV angles, but that's about it. Some folks with the SLR lift have had problems with their set up. If the SLR kit does in fact offer slightly more articulation than the AC kit then that would offer explanations as to the problems some folks have reported. The AC set up has the same amount of articulation as the SLR kit without the diff drop as far as I know. The AC A-arms and the SLR A-arms are almost identical. I'm sure the SLR A-arms are prettier, but I'm not convinced that they are beefier or made any better.
The Calmini A-arms seem to be the beefiest to me, but with that extra beefiness comes no articulation.
Thanks Philosopher. Over the last year or so, I have changed my mind several times regarding which lift I would like to have. I would like to have the AC lift with Bilstien shocks and National rear springs. Maybe it's better just to peice a lift together.
Do you have any idea what problems people were having with the SLR lift?
In my opinion which some folks will dispute:
The SLR kit claims the most travel (don't remember the numbers). I wouldn't bet money on this, but that's what they claim. The drop the diff, which helps CV angles, but that's about it. Some folks with the SLR lift have had problems with their set up. If the SLR kit does in fact offer slightly more articulation than the AC kit then that would offer explanations as to the problems some folks have reported. The AC set up has the same amount of articulation as the SLR kit without the diff drop as far as I know. The AC A-arms and the SLR A-arms are almost identical. I'm sure the SLR A-arms are prettier, but I'm not convinced that they are beefier or made any better.
The Calmini A-arms seem to be the beefiest to me, but with that extra beefiness comes no articulation.
Thanks Philosopher. Over the last year or so, I have changed my mind several times regarding which lift I would like to have. I would like to have the AC lift with Bilstien shocks and National rear springs. Maybe it's better just to peice a lift together.
Do you have any idea what problems people were having with the SLR lift?
Kennedy
01-20-2002, 10:33 AM
And the only problem I have had is the same problem that everyone else is having with the steering components. SLR has steering components that will soon be available. AC has just released thier quite expensive steering setup.
My .02 cents...
First here's all the XOC posts on the SLR lift I've made. I've had mine installed about as long as Ian has (maybe a month less).
http://www.xterraownersclub.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=000438
http://www.xterraownersclub.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=9&t=000084
http://www.xterraownersclub.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=000302
-First the only people I know to have documented blowing CV's has been Pik and SLR. SLR developed the diff drop because of the fact that they blew the CV out.
- Second, not sure of the artriculation gains (numbers wise), but I know Spencer's stuff is racebred. The components are designed with performance in mind. SLR has taken some hits recently because they're having website trouble. I've called and asked what's up quite recently. New stuff is coming. The new stage 4 lift is complete, and quite a few add ons for the stage 2 and 3 are ready to go to add articulation to those kits. Thier sevice is still great even thought the website is still down.
The web-site issue is when they went live over a year ago with thier web-site, they had problems that generated bad press. They want to make sure everything is right, and all components are tested and available before going live again. Give em a call and ask.
-Read my opinion on Calmini in one of the links above. I think they're ripping off the true innovators within the comunity here. MIke V at AC, Todd at EOE, and Spencer at SLR, and Eric at SR will probably all agree.
-Lastly, buying Spencer's stuff is like subscribing to a service. I bought the lift kit when it was "gen 1" over a year ago. Since then I have received new front shock mount bushings and pads, new ball joints in response to the shitty moog ones Ian documented, and new frame side poly bushings... Free of charge... So as spencer developes new products to tweak his lift, he shares those tweaks with his customers. Try to get Rancho to do that for ya!
He also keeps me in the loop as new things evolve and offers return customer discounts. I'm a loyal customer, and reccomend you give these guys a try if your going with a lift.
My .02 cents...
First here's all the XOC posts on the SLR lift I've made. I've had mine installed about as long as Ian has (maybe a month less).
http://www.xterraownersclub.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=000438
http://www.xterraownersclub.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=9&t=000084
http://www.xterraownersclub.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=000302
-First the only people I know to have documented blowing CV's has been Pik and SLR. SLR developed the diff drop because of the fact that they blew the CV out.
- Second, not sure of the artriculation gains (numbers wise), but I know Spencer's stuff is racebred. The components are designed with performance in mind. SLR has taken some hits recently because they're having website trouble. I've called and asked what's up quite recently. New stuff is coming. The new stage 4 lift is complete, and quite a few add ons for the stage 2 and 3 are ready to go to add articulation to those kits. Thier sevice is still great even thought the website is still down.
The web-site issue is when they went live over a year ago with thier web-site, they had problems that generated bad press. They want to make sure everything is right, and all components are tested and available before going live again. Give em a call and ask.
-Read my opinion on Calmini in one of the links above. I think they're ripping off the true innovators within the comunity here. MIke V at AC, Todd at EOE, and Spencer at SLR, and Eric at SR will probably all agree.
-Lastly, buying Spencer's stuff is like subscribing to a service. I bought the lift kit when it was "gen 1" over a year ago. Since then I have received new front shock mount bushings and pads, new ball joints in response to the shitty moog ones Ian documented, and new frame side poly bushings... Free of charge... So as spencer developes new products to tweak his lift, he shares those tweaks with his customers. Try to get Rancho to do that for ya!
He also keeps me in the loop as new things evolve and offers return customer discounts. I'm a loyal customer, and reccomend you give these guys a try if your going with a lift.
FSRBIKER
01-20-2002, 10:55 AM
Kennedy do you have the small welded on steel pad on your SLR a-arms that will contact the upper bumpstop? Also did your kit include low profile bumpstops for the upper a-arms? I was installing a new centerlink on Steinism's X and he recently installed the SLR lift... the steel pad is not there and he said the low profile bumpstops were included. I am wondering when they started this as I know for sure Ian has the steel pad on his a-arms...you...anyone else with the SLR lift?
Kennedy
01-20-2002, 07:12 PM
I have the steel pads, but they arre offset a bit. I think the first run of arms was from a frontier and thus they don't quite match up well. To compensate, new larger upper bumpstops have been added. They may havde started removing them as they aren't reallt necessary.
I received the bumstops this summer when I asked about them. Got the lowers too. I know the next run of upper arms will correct this minor issue as well as add zerks to the a arms mountings
I also know new lower A-arms and an extended shock mounting is about ready to go. Should be quite interesting what's available by springtime.
Here's a pic of what comes with the SLR kit:
http://www.spencerlowracing.com/stage3_4wd.jpg
I received the bumstops this summer when I asked about them. Got the lowers too. I know the next run of upper arms will correct this minor issue as well as add zerks to the a arms mountings
I also know new lower A-arms and an extended shock mounting is about ready to go. Should be quite interesting what's available by springtime.
Here's a pic of what comes with the SLR kit:
http://www.spencerlowracing.com/stage3_4wd.jpg
Craigs_Tonka
01-20-2002, 11:04 PM
have the SLR lift. I have the "pads" you mentioned on the a-arms with the low profile bump stops as well as grease zerks on each bushing for the arm and the balljoint itself.
I've had no complaints regarding my lift. In fact, it's never performed as well as it did this weekend. I had 5 in the cabin and about 200lbs of gear and was fully articulating on rock crawling trails and running hard across some desert trails.
I know that some good things are on the way for the Xterra community from SLR in the near future. As far as I'm concerned, I will continue to purchase their products as they have more experience with custom building parts for Nissans due to their racing background.
My .02
I've had no complaints regarding my lift. In fact, it's never performed as well as it did this weekend. I had 5 in the cabin and about 200lbs of gear and was fully articulating on rock crawling trails and running hard across some desert trails.
I know that some good things are on the way for the Xterra community from SLR in the near future. As far as I'm concerned, I will continue to purchase their products as they have more experience with custom building parts for Nissans due to their racing background.
My .02
Maddog
01-21-2002, 12:02 AM
I'll also chime in regarding SLR. I installed the SLR lift about a year ago (Kennedy and I were working on the install at about the same time). I too have nothing but good things to say about both the lift and SLR's customer service. I have noticed a substaintial improvement of the ride as well as an increase in articulation, all without any problems to speak of (yet). The guys at SLR were also very helpful with any questions I had concerning the install and even gave me a few calls months later just to make sure everything was working out ok.
To save a little cash, I only ordered the Stage I lift, which doesn't include torsion bars, and then purchased the NISMO torsion bars for a little less. While I have been impressed with SLR's products and customer service I didn't find iit necessary to pay $200 more for their torsion bars. In deciding on a lift, I really don't think you'll be disappointed with the SLR kit, although I'm sure some will say the same thing about the AC lift.
Dog
To save a little cash, I only ordered the Stage I lift, which doesn't include torsion bars, and then purchased the NISMO torsion bars for a little less. While I have been impressed with SLR's products and customer service I didn't find iit necessary to pay $200 more for their torsion bars. In deciding on a lift, I really don't think you'll be disappointed with the SLR kit, although I'm sure some will say the same thing about the AC lift.
Dog
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