Which One
newbicivic89
10-31-2005, 08:49 AM
Which would you choose a B18c1 or a B16a1 and why.
Schister66
10-31-2005, 10:42 AM
that's too broad a question to answer definitively....you need to be more specific!! Searching is also a good choice!!
Personally i'd pick the GSR, not only because it has more power, but because i already have one......either way you won't be dissapointed! IT just really depends on what you're planning to do w/ the engine and how much $$ you have to blow!
Personally i'd pick the GSR, not only because it has more power, but because i already have one......either way you won't be dissapointed! IT just really depends on what you're planning to do w/ the engine and how much $$ you have to blow!
newbicivic89
10-31-2005, 11:13 AM
If you wanted to do alot of street racing. Also thx for your opinion.
Schister66
10-31-2005, 12:01 PM
that really didnt tell me a damn thing......
How much do you have to spend? Do you know anything about cars, or Hondas for that matter? What are your power goals? Turbo or NA app? Budget?
How much do you have to spend? Do you know anything about cars, or Hondas for that matter? What are your power goals? Turbo or NA app? Budget?
newbicivic89
10-31-2005, 12:32 PM
i have a b18c1 and try to get about 300Hp out of ( what can i do to get 300 Hp out of it ) it but then my friend told me ( hes smart in this stuff ) said to get a b16a2 beacuse we he went to the races he saw some b16 raceing a b18 and the b16 won and they were both turbocharged.
Schister66
10-31-2005, 01:00 PM
just because the B16 won doesn't mean that it is a better engine.....and just because they were both turbo, doesn't mean anything. One could've had a fairly conservative turbo set up and the other could've been built. There are GSR's that make over 700whp, and i'm sure there are B16s that get close to the same....
BUDGET???? and what do you really know about Hondas and turbos? By the sounds of it, your buddy doesn't know a whole hell of a lot.
http://www.beesandgoats.com/boostfaq/g2icturbo.html
read!!
BUDGET???? and what do you really know about Hondas and turbos? By the sounds of it, your buddy doesn't know a whole hell of a lot.
http://www.beesandgoats.com/boostfaq/g2icturbo.html
read!!
newbicivic89
10-31-2005, 01:18 PM
If i got a b16 head and put it on my b18c1 block wouldnt that give me a lower compression and that gives me more boost?? Then i just dont want to give it 2 much boost cause i could blow engine parts so what new parts could i get that can withstand more horsepower.
Schister66
10-31-2005, 01:22 PM
Did you even read that site at all.......you don't have a clue what you're talking about! IF you're seriously thinking of doin this....which i DOUBT....what is your budget? What kind of car is this going in?
newbicivic89
10-31-2005, 01:24 PM
ITs a 89 4dr civic and i have enough money Ok. Ive already been to that site b4 anyways.
Schister66
10-31-2005, 01:26 PM
sure you have enough money and know everything already.....well have fun!
I'm done!
I'm done!
Ace$nyper
10-31-2005, 01:27 PM
buy my car.
200 hp with just piston change ready for 15+ psi
link in sig.
200 hp with just piston change ready for 15+ psi
link in sig.
Schister66
10-31-2005, 01:30 PM
you know this kid is full of it right?? Theres no way that he's doin any of this stuff.......
Ace$nyper
10-31-2005, 01:30 PM
you know this kid is full of it right?? Theres no way that he's doin any of this stuff.......
I just need v8 money :naughty:
I just need v8 money :naughty:
newbicivic89
10-31-2005, 01:36 PM
you know this kid is full of it right?? Theres no way that he's doin any of this stuff.......
Why not. No im just on here for the fun of it cause im bored today.lalalala stupid i know what im talkin bout and if u cant answer some simple questions then you an just GO TO HELL. OK
Why not. No im just on here for the fun of it cause im bored today.lalalala stupid i know what im talkin bout and if u cant answer some simple questions then you an just GO TO HELL. OK
CivicSpoon
10-31-2005, 01:39 PM
Enough of this shit. B18c engine w/LSD transmission (since you don't even have the engine yet you lying little bastard), Hasport hydraulic tranny conversion mount kit (so you don't have to use a cable B-series transmission, sleeve the block, rods, low compression pistons (9:1-9.5:1), engine managment (uberdata, chrome, hondata, aem ems, etc), a really good PROFESSIONAL tune (don't do it yourself, have a friend do it, a friend of a friend do it, your friends dad do it; pay to have a professional who knows what the hell they are doing to tune it for you). If you have more $ after that; get some nice turbo cams and upgrade the valvetrain (springs, retainers, valves, etc), new intake manifold, sticky tires, shocks and springs/coilovers (don't go cheap).
Don't ask any more frigging questions! If you want info, look for it. You'll find more info (and more detailed info) by searching than anyone will be able to give you. Every single tiny mit of info has been covered countless times.
Don't ask any more frigging questions! If you want info, look for it. You'll find more info (and more detailed info) by searching than anyone will be able to give you. Every single tiny mit of info has been covered countless times.
Schister66
10-31-2005, 01:39 PM
:banhim:
Ace$nyper
10-31-2005, 01:41 PM
Enough of this shit. B18c engine w/LSD transmission (since you don't even have the engine yet you lying little bastard), Hasport hydraulic tranny conversion mount kit (so you don't have to use a cable B-series transmission, sleeve the block, rods, low compression pistons (9:1-9.5:1), engine managment (uberdata, chrome, hondata, aem ems, etc), a really good PROFESSIONAL tune (don't do it yourself, have a friend do it, a friend of a friend do it, your friends dad do it; pay to have a professional who knows what the hell they are doing to tune it for you). If you have more $ after that; get some nice turbo cams and upgrade the valvetrain (springs, retainers, valves, etc), new intake manifold, sticky tires, shocks and springs/coilovers (don't go cheap).
Don't ask any more frigging questions! If you want info, look for it. You'll find more info (and more detailed info) by searching than anyone will be able to give you. Every single tiny mit of info has been covered countless times.
3 thumbs up
Don't ask any more frigging questions! If you want info, look for it. You'll find more info (and more detailed info) by searching than anyone will be able to give you. Every single tiny mit of info has been covered countless times.
3 thumbs up
newbicivic89
10-31-2005, 01:42 PM
Thank you for your help.
civickiller
10-31-2005, 03:14 PM
i would almost agree with everything that whoever wrote that post up, but not with the turbo cams. i advise those who are building a motor not to buy turbo cams. just run like itr cams
Ace$nyper
10-31-2005, 04:48 PM
i would almost agree with everything that whoever wrote that post up, but not with the turbo cams. i advise those who are building a motor not to buy turbo cams. just run like itr cams
good point I shoulda brought that up I agree seen many turbo cars run great of stock vtec cams
I'd venture to say short of some insane custom grind for a B CTR is the best cam for boost.
good point I shoulda brought that up I agree seen many turbo cars run great of stock vtec cams
I'd venture to say short of some insane custom grind for a B CTR is the best cam for boost.
eckoman_pdx
10-31-2005, 05:12 PM
newbicivic89, don't get pissed and yell at other members. You in no way gave enough info. YOu just asked "what motor?"
Well dang, that doesn't mean a thing. They can't help you if they don't know goals, budgets, whether you planned N/A or Turbo, etc. When Schister66 said he needed more info, he wasn't being a prick, he was being honest.
Civicspoon and Civickiller had some decent advice. We can all help you, but you need to drop the attitude and try and work with us. You can't expect people to answer a board question. You need to be more speicific and list goals, etc. If people say they need more info and you don't know what more to give, then ask them what they need to know before they can answer.
When they give you links, read them. Try using the AF search function, this stuff has been covered many times, and a lot of helpful info can be covered if you look. I fyou want to know how to boost a GSR for X amount of $$, ask. Don't go fishing with questions like "can I put a B16 head on a GSR block for more boost." That combo is known as a Poor Man's Type-R, and a Type-R is the LAST motor you want to go around boosting. If you want to know how to boost a B18C1, then just ask. How much HP is your goal, turbo or N/A, how much $$ can you spend, etc. These are all things these guys need to know to help you.
Saying it's "for a lot of street racing" means absoluly nothing. No info or help whatsoever. Tells nothing of your goals for the motor. Furthurmore, street racing is a dumb idea, and contrary to what the Fast and the Furious tells you, it's not respected and looked upon. It's frowned upon. Keep it at the track. That's what most of us do.
Just be honest. They guys can be pretty helpful if you work with them instead of against them.
Most importantly. Don't lie or make stuff up. These guys can smell BS a mile away, and you'll do nothing but loose respect.
Well dang, that doesn't mean a thing. They can't help you if they don't know goals, budgets, whether you planned N/A or Turbo, etc. When Schister66 said he needed more info, he wasn't being a prick, he was being honest.
Civicspoon and Civickiller had some decent advice. We can all help you, but you need to drop the attitude and try and work with us. You can't expect people to answer a board question. You need to be more speicific and list goals, etc. If people say they need more info and you don't know what more to give, then ask them what they need to know before they can answer.
When they give you links, read them. Try using the AF search function, this stuff has been covered many times, and a lot of helpful info can be covered if you look. I fyou want to know how to boost a GSR for X amount of $$, ask. Don't go fishing with questions like "can I put a B16 head on a GSR block for more boost." That combo is known as a Poor Man's Type-R, and a Type-R is the LAST motor you want to go around boosting. If you want to know how to boost a B18C1, then just ask. How much HP is your goal, turbo or N/A, how much $$ can you spend, etc. These are all things these guys need to know to help you.
Saying it's "for a lot of street racing" means absoluly nothing. No info or help whatsoever. Tells nothing of your goals for the motor. Furthurmore, street racing is a dumb idea, and contrary to what the Fast and the Furious tells you, it's not respected and looked upon. It's frowned upon. Keep it at the track. That's what most of us do.
Just be honest. They guys can be pretty helpful if you work with them instead of against them.
Most importantly. Don't lie or make stuff up. These guys can smell BS a mile away, and you'll do nothing but loose respect.
Schister66
10-31-2005, 06:19 PM
:1:
newbicivic89
10-31-2005, 07:00 PM
Yea ok i get what ur saying. Im sorry for all the BS thats been going on.
OK now that thats all said ok dont get mad at me but. I got a B18c1 ok I want to boost It ok. I want to still have good gas milage. I also want alot of HP around 500 To 600 somewhere in that range. I dont streetrace I go to the Trac with my uncle cause he also is into this stuff. The thing is though Can a boost a stock B18c or do i have to get new parts. I dont want to blow it. Im not trying to get smart or have a attitude and if you ask for more information i will provide it the best way i can. My Budget is 10,000 But im only spenden 5K on my car and the other in bank my moms making me for college.
OK now that thats all said ok dont get mad at me but. I got a B18c1 ok I want to boost It ok. I want to still have good gas milage. I also want alot of HP around 500 To 600 somewhere in that range. I dont streetrace I go to the Trac with my uncle cause he also is into this stuff. The thing is though Can a boost a stock B18c or do i have to get new parts. I dont want to blow it. Im not trying to get smart or have a attitude and if you ask for more information i will provide it the best way i can. My Budget is 10,000 But im only spenden 5K on my car and the other in bank my moms making me for college.
CivicSpoon
10-31-2005, 07:20 PM
500-600whp is way out of your range. If you don't want to blow up the engine, then you need to build it. I'm not saying that it's not possible to make good power, but it is more reliable to build it (be on the safe side). As far as performance as well as gas mileage, not going to happen. If you want performance, be prepared to go through gas like water, and pay for at least 93-94 octane at every fill up (higher performance = higher octane or else goodbye engine). There is a big difference between 5k and 10k. Either you have 10k to spend on your car or you have 5k to spend on the car. For 5k; you'll get a turbo kit, fuel management, an engine management system, and $ for a tune. You could cut some of those costs down by building your own kit (something you'd have to do a TON of research for), and use a free version ems. Your best bet for an engine management system is to find people in your area that tune, and use the system that they recommend (what's the point of buying something that noone will be able to use).
newbicivic89
10-31-2005, 07:23 PM
So how much Hp could i get out of a stock B18c1 turbocharged. I got 5K to spend on my car.
superbluecivicsi
10-31-2005, 08:17 PM
another dumb thread. do a search.
Schister66
10-31-2005, 08:26 PM
another dumb thread. do a search.
:iagree:
:iagree:
eckoman_pdx
10-31-2005, 08:37 PM
Newbicivic89, as was said, 500-600hp is way out of your range on a $5000 budget. $10000 can get you a full built motor and a good turbo put on htere boosted to heck. However, I commend the fact you are drawing a line and not spending all of it. Putting half into an account toward college is a smart idea.:)
The range you are shooting for, that a lot of horsepower, honestly more than you'll need, and it'll give you traction nightmares. Not that you can't boost the crap out of it, but not on a stock block. You need no where near that much hp to have fun with a civic. I'd consider a lot less HP...like 250-300whp max.
If you really want to shoot for the big numbers someday, you'd want to rebuild the motor, cuz you'd blow the stock one to crap if you tired to lay that much down. For that much power, you'd want to resleeve it, AEBS, Darton, Golden Eagle and Benson Performance Machincing are all reputable companies. You'd want good strong rods, for the rods, I perfer the I-beam design over the cheaper H-beam design. Crower 6360 steel billet I-Beam rods are killer. You'd want some low compresion ratio pistons too, like some from Arias, Wiesco, or JE. Wouldn't hurt to throw in new valves, springs, and retainers...Crower and Fererra are good. A build alone is gonna eat up your $5K budget, you won't get to the turbo.
Now, I think AEBS charges like $1200 to re-sleeve a block, so figure $500 on pistons and $600 for good I-beam rods. $2200 should get you a built bottom end. That should allow more hp with a good tune, since you've closed the decklid and strengthend the pistons and rods, all 3 of which are a weak point on a high boost hp honda motor. That would leave you $2800 for a turbo, which can be done if you peice a kit toghter yourself, and use a free tuning program like Uberdata. However, do LOTS OF RESEARCH. You want to put toghter something that will work, not suck.
On a car as light as a civic, even 250-300 will move it fine. Thats the max I'd suggest you shoot for. A stock GSR tuned right, I'd say 8psi is the max you'd want to run, but I've seen 8psi produce upwards of 275whp on a good turbo and tuyne combo. I'd say shoot for that, 8psi, good turbo sized right for your goals and tuned right. Remember, with boost the key is in the engine tune. A crappy tune will kill your motor quick. Detonation is your enemy. As for Engine Management, Hondata with Boost control is a good choice for a turbo'd motor, though it's not free. Uberdata is another opiton. I'd look for people in your area and see what they know how to tune. You don't want someone tuning something they don't know how to tune. That would be like trying to talk french to someone who only spoke german.
Also, remember, there is more to a turbo than big end max HP numbers. Do you want just a big max hp number, like a all-out drag car or a dyno queen, are yo all about quick spool and a low rpm initial on-set of boost, or are you about a nice blend, mid onset of boost and a little more max HP. Remember, a big turbo will flow more air and give you more output potential, but it will give you more turbo lag as well. A small turbo will spool very quick, but the max airflow and therefor the peak hp output is going to be lower. This is great if you want that extra kick to come in useful onthe street and arn't all about 1/4 mile times. It's all give and take. Remember, do research, and figure out your goals for the TURBO as well. What are you looking for it to do, and where do you want the power. You want a Quick spool, the biggest baddest peak hp turbo you can shove on (bigtime lag) or a in-between mix. Also remember, a ball-bearing turbo will spool up quicker than a conventional one, and can cut off a good 600-800 rpm off the spool up time, thereby reducing lag. I'd take the time, do research and learn how to read compressor maps. Learning the math to do turbo sizing can't hurt either. Garrett compressor makes their compressor maps pretty available.
Also, since you said you already bought a GSR B18C1, here are the OEM specs on your motor.
*B18C1- this is a GSR motor. This is a USDM motor. There was a B18C4 in Europe, this was the same as the B18C1. It came in a 1.8 civic. 1797cc. It has a power output of 170hp @7600rpm and 128ft-lbs @6200rpm. 10.0:1 c/r. 8100rpm redline. Came both OBD-I and OBD-II
Here are some websites to check out also, to help get you started and see whats out there.
For transmission gear ratios, check out this site
http://www.allmotorhonda.com/techpa...ranny_specs.htm
AEBS
http://www.aebsracing.com/main.pl
Darton Sleeves
http://www.dartonsleeves.com/
Crower
http://www.crower.com/
JE Pistons
http://www.jepistons.com/
Hondata
http://www.hondata.com/
The range you are shooting for, that a lot of horsepower, honestly more than you'll need, and it'll give you traction nightmares. Not that you can't boost the crap out of it, but not on a stock block. You need no where near that much hp to have fun with a civic. I'd consider a lot less HP...like 250-300whp max.
If you really want to shoot for the big numbers someday, you'd want to rebuild the motor, cuz you'd blow the stock one to crap if you tired to lay that much down. For that much power, you'd want to resleeve it, AEBS, Darton, Golden Eagle and Benson Performance Machincing are all reputable companies. You'd want good strong rods, for the rods, I perfer the I-beam design over the cheaper H-beam design. Crower 6360 steel billet I-Beam rods are killer. You'd want some low compresion ratio pistons too, like some from Arias, Wiesco, or JE. Wouldn't hurt to throw in new valves, springs, and retainers...Crower and Fererra are good. A build alone is gonna eat up your $5K budget, you won't get to the turbo.
Now, I think AEBS charges like $1200 to re-sleeve a block, so figure $500 on pistons and $600 for good I-beam rods. $2200 should get you a built bottom end. That should allow more hp with a good tune, since you've closed the decklid and strengthend the pistons and rods, all 3 of which are a weak point on a high boost hp honda motor. That would leave you $2800 for a turbo, which can be done if you peice a kit toghter yourself, and use a free tuning program like Uberdata. However, do LOTS OF RESEARCH. You want to put toghter something that will work, not suck.
On a car as light as a civic, even 250-300 will move it fine. Thats the max I'd suggest you shoot for. A stock GSR tuned right, I'd say 8psi is the max you'd want to run, but I've seen 8psi produce upwards of 275whp on a good turbo and tuyne combo. I'd say shoot for that, 8psi, good turbo sized right for your goals and tuned right. Remember, with boost the key is in the engine tune. A crappy tune will kill your motor quick. Detonation is your enemy. As for Engine Management, Hondata with Boost control is a good choice for a turbo'd motor, though it's not free. Uberdata is another opiton. I'd look for people in your area and see what they know how to tune. You don't want someone tuning something they don't know how to tune. That would be like trying to talk french to someone who only spoke german.
Also, remember, there is more to a turbo than big end max HP numbers. Do you want just a big max hp number, like a all-out drag car or a dyno queen, are yo all about quick spool and a low rpm initial on-set of boost, or are you about a nice blend, mid onset of boost and a little more max HP. Remember, a big turbo will flow more air and give you more output potential, but it will give you more turbo lag as well. A small turbo will spool very quick, but the max airflow and therefor the peak hp output is going to be lower. This is great if you want that extra kick to come in useful onthe street and arn't all about 1/4 mile times. It's all give and take. Remember, do research, and figure out your goals for the TURBO as well. What are you looking for it to do, and where do you want the power. You want a Quick spool, the biggest baddest peak hp turbo you can shove on (bigtime lag) or a in-between mix. Also remember, a ball-bearing turbo will spool up quicker than a conventional one, and can cut off a good 600-800 rpm off the spool up time, thereby reducing lag. I'd take the time, do research and learn how to read compressor maps. Learning the math to do turbo sizing can't hurt either. Garrett compressor makes their compressor maps pretty available.
Also, since you said you already bought a GSR B18C1, here are the OEM specs on your motor.
*B18C1- this is a GSR motor. This is a USDM motor. There was a B18C4 in Europe, this was the same as the B18C1. It came in a 1.8 civic. 1797cc. It has a power output of 170hp @7600rpm and 128ft-lbs @6200rpm. 10.0:1 c/r. 8100rpm redline. Came both OBD-I and OBD-II
Here are some websites to check out also, to help get you started and see whats out there.
For transmission gear ratios, check out this site
http://www.allmotorhonda.com/techpa...ranny_specs.htm
AEBS
http://www.aebsracing.com/main.pl
Darton Sleeves
http://www.dartonsleeves.com/
Crower
http://www.crower.com/
JE Pistons
http://www.jepistons.com/
Hondata
http://www.hondata.com/
Schister66
10-31-2005, 08:52 PM
i though sleeving was cheaper than that!!
eckoman_pdx
10-31-2005, 08:59 PM
i though sleeving was cheaper than that!!
The Sleeves are cheaper themselves, yeah. I've seen it done chepar also. I think Golden Eagle is under $1000. I perfer AEBS myself, but thats me. For AEBS, that price is the price of the sleeves, installed, the cylinders honed, all installed and done by the company themselves, AEBS. At least it used to be awhile ago. Could have gone up or down by now, as it's been awhile. I don't remember, but that price might have included shipping to San Deigo from The Pacific NW. As I said, it's been awhile so I don't remember off the top of my head.
I think there's a place on the east coast authorized to install AEBS sleeves that charges like $900. You can figure it would cost a little more to have the manufactuerer do it themeselves.
The Sleeves are cheaper themselves, yeah. I've seen it done chepar also. I think Golden Eagle is under $1000. I perfer AEBS myself, but thats me. For AEBS, that price is the price of the sleeves, installed, the cylinders honed, all installed and done by the company themselves, AEBS. At least it used to be awhile ago. Could have gone up or down by now, as it's been awhile. I don't remember, but that price might have included shipping to San Deigo from The Pacific NW. As I said, it's been awhile so I don't remember off the top of my head.
I think there's a place on the east coast authorized to install AEBS sleeves that charges like $900. You can figure it would cost a little more to have the manufactuerer do it themeselves.
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