Lingenfelter Corvette vs. Hennessey Viper
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ChibiSF
05-25-2002, 12:37 AM
I love these two cars. But which one do you guy believe is better. They both are around the same price of 160,000 U.S. dollars, have insane acceleration and have a very high top speed. I guess it's a matter of opinion?
lloyd_nickens
05-25-2002, 01:08 AM
Corvette, cause I have never been a Viper fan. But then again that is my personal opinion.
FYRHWK1
05-25-2002, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by ChibiSF
I love these two cars. But which one do you guy believe is better. They both are around the same price of 160,000 U.S. dollars, have insane acceleration and have a very high top speed. I guess it's a matter of opinion?
the corvette is already faster, it ran a 9.24 @ 150 in an MT test, while it was on slicks, i don't believe the 800TTs 60's and 1/8 were THAT terrible. more then a set of slicks would be able to help. the corvettes also handle better stock to stock, better braking and faster turn in, if only slightly. also with hennessey's reputation, i'm starting to believe more and more his dyno charts are doctored, but i've no proof so it's just hearsay.
I love these two cars. But which one do you guy believe is better. They both are around the same price of 160,000 U.S. dollars, have insane acceleration and have a very high top speed. I guess it's a matter of opinion?
the corvette is already faster, it ran a 9.24 @ 150 in an MT test, while it was on slicks, i don't believe the 800TTs 60's and 1/8 were THAT terrible. more then a set of slicks would be able to help. the corvettes also handle better stock to stock, better braking and faster turn in, if only slightly. also with hennessey's reputation, i'm starting to believe more and more his dyno charts are doctored, but i've no proof so it's just hearsay.
TatII
05-25-2002, 08:58 AM
lingenfelter corvette. 0-60 in 1.97 seconds, 0-100 in 4.33 seconds. nuff said.
ArtemisEntreriR34
07-15-2002, 11:16 PM
I say the Vette is better, the specs are close but I say the Vette looks better.
Hamann
07-16-2002, 10:44 AM
The Corvete is faster and the Viper looks better, but I want to see track times and not drag strip times. Until then, I rather have a Porsche Gemballa 911 600 GTR.
mrcvette
07-16-2002, 11:01 PM
Id go with the vette, it performs better and is more of a sleeper
BIG TX
07-16-2002, 11:15 PM
Viper all the way....twin Garett (spelling) jets!!!! bad ass
S Brake
07-16-2002, 11:29 PM
In my mind there is no comparison, the vette looks better IMO and its a faster than the viper. knowing hennessey's reputation there are probably only 2 customers that have gotten thier cars.
Vette all the way.
Vette all the way.
YogsVR4
07-18-2002, 11:16 AM
I'd have to pick the vette
VieTxRiceRocket
07-18-2002, 01:03 PM
Vette. It won't blow after a week.
v10_viper
07-25-2002, 12:07 PM
The Viper did it's tests on Street Legal Slicks and I'm pretty sure the Vette's weren't Street Legal and and the Vipers engine, they never changed anything to it except for the mods, the Lingenfelter is a 7.0 liter V-8 TT, where did they get that 7.0 Litre at??? it didn't come stock in the corvettes engine, they never bumped the litres up on the Viper's Engine, so it must not be a Corvette engine under there. If they would have left the 5.7 under there i bet the Vette wouldn't be as good as it is. or leave the vette with it's, well i guess it wasn't the vette's engine but how bout ya bump the viper up 1.3 litres so ya have a 9.3 litre engine and then put the twin turbos on it and see who goes quicker.
ChibiSF
07-25-2002, 12:32 PM
They were street legal slicks. The same Mickey Thompson D.O.T. "Cheater Slicks" that the Hennessey Viper used. It is an LS1 Corvette engine, but bored to 7.0 litres. That's still nothing compared to the 8.0 litre engine that the Viper has stock.
Gravitom
07-25-2002, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by v10_viper
The Viper did it's tests on Street Legal Slicks and I'm pretty sure the Vette's weren't Street Legal and and the Vipers engine, they never changed anything to it except for the mods, the Lingenfelter is a 7.0 liter V-8 TT, where did they get that 7.0 Litre at??? it didn't come stock in the corvettes engine, they never bumped the litres up on the Viper's Engine, so it must not be a Corvette engine under there. If they would have left the 5.7 under there i bet the Vette wouldn't be as good as it is. or leave the vette with it's, well i guess it wasn't the vette's engine but how bout ya bump the viper up 1.3 litres so ya have a 9.3 litre engine and then put the twin turbos on it and see who goes quicker.
They both cost the same so what does it matter what kind of work they did to achieve their results. So the Viper didn't bore its block and add twin turbos, how is that an excuse for it performing worse? I hate when people make up excuses just because they are a fanboy of a certain car.
The Viper did it's tests on Street Legal Slicks and I'm pretty sure the Vette's weren't Street Legal and and the Vipers engine, they never changed anything to it except for the mods, the Lingenfelter is a 7.0 liter V-8 TT, where did they get that 7.0 Litre at??? it didn't come stock in the corvettes engine, they never bumped the litres up on the Viper's Engine, so it must not be a Corvette engine under there. If they would have left the 5.7 under there i bet the Vette wouldn't be as good as it is. or leave the vette with it's, well i guess it wasn't the vette's engine but how bout ya bump the viper up 1.3 litres so ya have a 9.3 litre engine and then put the twin turbos on it and see who goes quicker.
They both cost the same so what does it matter what kind of work they did to achieve their results. So the Viper didn't bore its block and add twin turbos, how is that an excuse for it performing worse? I hate when people make up excuses just because they are a fanboy of a certain car.
v10_viper
07-25-2002, 04:55 PM
they never did any boring out of the corvette engine, they put a custom engine in it and took the 5.7 litre out, the viper kept it's own engine in there. Compare the Lingenfelter to the SVS Stryker Twin Turbo and see who is better than. and i'll bet that the Viper beat the Vette on a road course anytime.
ChibiSF
07-25-2002, 06:18 PM
SVS Stryker Twin Turbo. This isn't a comparo between an SVS Stryker Twin Turbo and a Lingenfelter. It's a comparo between a Lingenfelter and a Hennessey Viper. Anyways...
I stand corrected. The engine in the Lingenfelter is a special 7.0l GM Performance Parts LS1-style engine. However, the cars are still the same price, so there's really no excuse. Plus LPE cars have been known to be more reliable than their Hennessey counterparts.
I stand corrected. The engine in the Lingenfelter is a special 7.0l GM Performance Parts LS1-style engine. However, the cars are still the same price, so there's really no excuse. Plus LPE cars have been known to be more reliable than their Hennessey counterparts.
Viper 10
07-25-2002, 07:51 PM
Originally posted by FYRHWK1
the corvette is already faster, it ran a 9.24 @ 150 in an MT test, while it was on slicks, i don't believe the 800TTs 60's and 1/8 were THAT terrible. more then a set of slicks would be able to help. the corvettes also handle better stock to stock, better braking and faster turn in, if only slightly. also with hennessey's reputation, i'm starting to believe more and more his dyno charts are doctored, but i've no proof so it's just hearsay.
FYR:
Your handling stats are incorrect. The Corvette Z06 pulls .98 G's and the Viper pulls 1.03 G's. Handling spec's are TOTALLY irrelevant in ANY of your debates here, because neither Lingenfelter nor Hennessey do any significant chassis mods. At these HP levels, the engines far exceed the chassis's and suspensions on BOTH cars. These cars are built for one thing, and that is straight line drag racing.
1/4 mile times are irrelevant because there is a good chance that Lingenfelter is running some stupid gears like 4.04 against the Vipers 3.07's. You can make ANY car do quick 1/4 miles...
Both of these engines will never last longer than 10,000 miles before they implode. Hennessey is also stupid for putting twin turbos on a car with cast pistons. It is an accident waiting to happen. The pistons will collapse with any decent level of boost.
On the other hand Lingenfelter is using a GM racing block that is used by the Le Mans class C-5R's. Those engines are designed and built to be refreshed after every single race. If you know anything about boring and stroking, you'll know that 350 engines naturally get bored and stroked to 383. Going out to what I think equates out to 427 cubes is another accident waiting to happen. The block- piston walls are basically paper thin.
I also agree with comments made about Hennessey's business practices. He is a crook, and you would be stupid to loan this guy milk money. His D&B is a mile long with dozens of customers and supplier that are suing him. SVSi hasn't sold more than a couple of the Stryker TT Vipers, and they have had at least one catch fire and burn to the ground. Does that sound like a car that you would want?
Another note, Lingenfelter will NOT build one of his cars for California use. He cannot meet his HP & torque numbers using CA gas. I know this for a fact because I talked to him personally about doing work on my Viper (and to sub-contract with for a possible tuner business that I am trying start).
Both of these cars are fun to dream about, but are as impractical as cars get. Most of them are garage and dyno queens. Wouldn't you guys like to spend your $200k+ on a car that you can at least drive?
JMO.
Brad
the corvette is already faster, it ran a 9.24 @ 150 in an MT test, while it was on slicks, i don't believe the 800TTs 60's and 1/8 were THAT terrible. more then a set of slicks would be able to help. the corvettes also handle better stock to stock, better braking and faster turn in, if only slightly. also with hennessey's reputation, i'm starting to believe more and more his dyno charts are doctored, but i've no proof so it's just hearsay.
FYR:
Your handling stats are incorrect. The Corvette Z06 pulls .98 G's and the Viper pulls 1.03 G's. Handling spec's are TOTALLY irrelevant in ANY of your debates here, because neither Lingenfelter nor Hennessey do any significant chassis mods. At these HP levels, the engines far exceed the chassis's and suspensions on BOTH cars. These cars are built for one thing, and that is straight line drag racing.
1/4 mile times are irrelevant because there is a good chance that Lingenfelter is running some stupid gears like 4.04 against the Vipers 3.07's. You can make ANY car do quick 1/4 miles...
Both of these engines will never last longer than 10,000 miles before they implode. Hennessey is also stupid for putting twin turbos on a car with cast pistons. It is an accident waiting to happen. The pistons will collapse with any decent level of boost.
On the other hand Lingenfelter is using a GM racing block that is used by the Le Mans class C-5R's. Those engines are designed and built to be refreshed after every single race. If you know anything about boring and stroking, you'll know that 350 engines naturally get bored and stroked to 383. Going out to what I think equates out to 427 cubes is another accident waiting to happen. The block- piston walls are basically paper thin.
I also agree with comments made about Hennessey's business practices. He is a crook, and you would be stupid to loan this guy milk money. His D&B is a mile long with dozens of customers and supplier that are suing him. SVSi hasn't sold more than a couple of the Stryker TT Vipers, and they have had at least one catch fire and burn to the ground. Does that sound like a car that you would want?
Another note, Lingenfelter will NOT build one of his cars for California use. He cannot meet his HP & torque numbers using CA gas. I know this for a fact because I talked to him personally about doing work on my Viper (and to sub-contract with for a possible tuner business that I am trying start).
Both of these cars are fun to dream about, but are as impractical as cars get. Most of them are garage and dyno queens. Wouldn't you guys like to spend your $200k+ on a car that you can at least drive?
JMO.
Brad
Pennzoil GT-R
07-25-2002, 08:04 PM
actually cornering G does not necessarily make for good handling or cornering. but anyway, as you said, neither of these cars were built to go round corners quickly.
|Banchi1O5|
07-26-2002, 01:25 AM
Originally posted by Pennzoil GT-R
actually cornering G does not necessarily make for good handling or cornering. but anyway, as you said, neither of these cars were built to go round corners quickly.
not doubting what you said
but ive never heard this
please elaborate :)
actually cornering G does not necessarily make for good handling or cornering. but anyway, as you said, neither of these cars were built to go round corners quickly.
not doubting what you said
but ive never heard this
please elaborate :)
FYRHWK1
07-26-2002, 01:56 AM
Originally posted by Viper 10
FYR:
Your handling stats are incorrect. The Corvette Z06 pulls .98 G's and the Viper pulls 1.03 G's. Handling spec's are TOTALLY irrelevant in ANY of your debates here, because neither Lingenfelter nor Hennessey do any significant chassis mods. At these HP levels, the engines far exceed the chassis's and suspensions on BOTH cars. These cars are built for one thing, and that is straight line drag racing.
1/4 mile times are irrelevant because there is a good chance that Lingenfelter is running some stupid gears like 4.04 against the Vipers 3.07's. You can make ANY car do quick 1/4 miles...
Both of these engines will never last longer than 10,000 miles before they implode. Hennessey is also stupid for putting twin turbos on a car with cast pistons. It is an accident waiting to happen. The pistons will collapse with any decent level of boost.
On the other hand Lingenfelter is using a GM racing block that is used by the Le Mans class C-5R's. Those engines are designed and built to be refreshed after every single race. If you know anything about boring and stroking, you'll know that 350 engines naturally get bored and stroked to 383. Going out to what I think equates out to 427 cubes is another accident waiting to happen. The block- piston walls are basically paper thin.
I also agree with comments made about Hennessey's business practices. He is a crook, and you would be stupid to loan this guy milk money. His D&B is a mile long with dozens of customers and supplier that are suing him. SVSi hasn't sold more than a couple of the Stryker TT Vipers, and they have had at least one catch fire and burn to the ground. Does that sound like a car that you would want?
Another note, Lingenfelter will NOT build one of his cars for California use. He cannot meet his HP & torque numbers using CA gas. I know this for a fact because I talked to him personally about doing work on my Viper (and to sub-contract with for a possible tuner business that I am trying start).
Both of these cars are fun to dream about, but are as impractical as cars get. Most of them are garage and dyno queens. Wouldn't you guys like to spend your $200k+ on a car that you can at least drive?
JMO.
Brad
well, you're right and wrong, the corvette C5 doesnt handle as well, the Z06 is the corvette that will run with a viper, and it has a 1.01 G skidpad. but skidpad G's mean little when comparing a cars handling, but we arent arguing that here.
the bore X stroke of the C5-r 427 is 4.155 X 3.94, and your comparison with a 350 going to a 383 and this is completely off. the LS1 is a new engine bearing no similarities to an old style SBC, even the firing order has changed as well as having a 3.90 X 3.62 bore X stroke, the 383 you speak of is a gen 1 or 2 SBC with a 4.00 X 3.48 bore X stroke, the motors are completely different. the 383 uses a 4.030 bore and 3.74 stroke, most commonly they use a 400 ci motor crank, but with less bore, 4.030 vs 4.125, the typical 350 block cant be bored mroe then .060 over without getting unstable. the C5-R aluminum block supports a 4.155 bore safely, which is what the lingenfelter car uses, several people have used this with fine results. and if the cylinder wall thickness is so thin, why dont you get us some numbers? i'm going to agree witht he tuners over you, bub.
i've never seen any proof that it runs a different rear differential its possible it uses a manual 3.42 diff, which is a direct boltin replacement, but thats hardly a "4.04" like you claim.
FYR:
Your handling stats are incorrect. The Corvette Z06 pulls .98 G's and the Viper pulls 1.03 G's. Handling spec's are TOTALLY irrelevant in ANY of your debates here, because neither Lingenfelter nor Hennessey do any significant chassis mods. At these HP levels, the engines far exceed the chassis's and suspensions on BOTH cars. These cars are built for one thing, and that is straight line drag racing.
1/4 mile times are irrelevant because there is a good chance that Lingenfelter is running some stupid gears like 4.04 against the Vipers 3.07's. You can make ANY car do quick 1/4 miles...
Both of these engines will never last longer than 10,000 miles before they implode. Hennessey is also stupid for putting twin turbos on a car with cast pistons. It is an accident waiting to happen. The pistons will collapse with any decent level of boost.
On the other hand Lingenfelter is using a GM racing block that is used by the Le Mans class C-5R's. Those engines are designed and built to be refreshed after every single race. If you know anything about boring and stroking, you'll know that 350 engines naturally get bored and stroked to 383. Going out to what I think equates out to 427 cubes is another accident waiting to happen. The block- piston walls are basically paper thin.
I also agree with comments made about Hennessey's business practices. He is a crook, and you would be stupid to loan this guy milk money. His D&B is a mile long with dozens of customers and supplier that are suing him. SVSi hasn't sold more than a couple of the Stryker TT Vipers, and they have had at least one catch fire and burn to the ground. Does that sound like a car that you would want?
Another note, Lingenfelter will NOT build one of his cars for California use. He cannot meet his HP & torque numbers using CA gas. I know this for a fact because I talked to him personally about doing work on my Viper (and to sub-contract with for a possible tuner business that I am trying start).
Both of these cars are fun to dream about, but are as impractical as cars get. Most of them are garage and dyno queens. Wouldn't you guys like to spend your $200k+ on a car that you can at least drive?
JMO.
Brad
well, you're right and wrong, the corvette C5 doesnt handle as well, the Z06 is the corvette that will run with a viper, and it has a 1.01 G skidpad. but skidpad G's mean little when comparing a cars handling, but we arent arguing that here.
the bore X stroke of the C5-r 427 is 4.155 X 3.94, and your comparison with a 350 going to a 383 and this is completely off. the LS1 is a new engine bearing no similarities to an old style SBC, even the firing order has changed as well as having a 3.90 X 3.62 bore X stroke, the 383 you speak of is a gen 1 or 2 SBC with a 4.00 X 3.48 bore X stroke, the motors are completely different. the 383 uses a 4.030 bore and 3.74 stroke, most commonly they use a 400 ci motor crank, but with less bore, 4.030 vs 4.125, the typical 350 block cant be bored mroe then .060 over without getting unstable. the C5-R aluminum block supports a 4.155 bore safely, which is what the lingenfelter car uses, several people have used this with fine results. and if the cylinder wall thickness is so thin, why dont you get us some numbers? i'm going to agree witht he tuners over you, bub.
i've never seen any proof that it runs a different rear differential its possible it uses a manual 3.42 diff, which is a direct boltin replacement, but thats hardly a "4.04" like you claim.
|Banchi1O5|
07-26-2002, 03:16 AM
the vette is in a issue of motor trend a couple issues back
and it ran to about 240 i believe
so i guess thats a nice ratio at the back :)
by the way its making over 850hp and 850lb/ft
:)
and it ran to about 240 i believe
so i guess thats a nice ratio at the back :)
by the way its making over 850hp and 850lb/ft
:)
ChibiSF
07-26-2002, 03:44 AM
hmm...Here are the states for the Lingenfelter Corvette as published by Motortrend Magazine, June 2002 Vol. 54, No. 6:
Powertrain/Chassis
Drivetrain: Front engine, RWD
Engine type: 90 degree V-8, alum block/LS6 heads, Garret twin-turbo chargers
Valve gear: OHV, 2 valves/cyl
Bore/stroke, in/mm: 4.125x4.00/104.7x101.6
Displacement: 427.6 cu in (7.0L)
Compression ratio: 9.2:1
Horsepower @ rpm: 802 @ 4600
Torque @ rpm: 866 @ 3600
Redline, rpm: 6500
Transmission: Rossler 4L60-E auto
Axle ratio: 3.42:1
Final-drive ratio: 2.39:1
Suspension, f/r: Alum upper & lower control arms, transver composite leaf springs, anti roll bars
Brakes, f/r: Brembo four-piston calipers, 14-in rotors
Wheels, f/r: LPE/HRE 18x10/19x12
Tires: 265/40ZR18/345/30ZR19 Michelin Pilot Sport
Dimensions
Wheelbase, in: 107.5
Track, f/r, in: 57.4/60.0
Length: 176.8
Width, in: 70.1
Height, in: 54.0
Curb weight, lb: 3340
Seating capacity: 2
Cargo capacity: Two golf bags
Fuel capacity, gal: 16.6
Test Data
Accelaration, sec:
0 - 30 mph: 0.83
0 - 40 mph: 1.20
0 - 50 mph: 1.59
0 - 60 mph: 1.97
0 - 70 mph: 2.44
0 - 80 mph: 3.06
0 - 90 mph: 3.67
0 - 100 mph: 4.33
0 - 150 mph: 9.21
Quarter mile, sec/mph: 9.24/150.27
0-100-0 mph, sec: 8.75
Braking, 60-0 mph, ft: 108
Skidpad, g: 1.01
Top speed 240 mph (est)
Consumer info
On sale in U.S.: Currently
Base Price: $46,400
Price as tested: $165,000 (est)
Airbags: Dual front
Basic Warranty: 3 yrs/36,000 miles
Powertrain warranty: 2 yrs/24,000 miles
EPA mpg, city/hwy: 15/24
Range, miles, city, hwy: 249/398
Recommended fuel: Unleaded premium
I would post the same for Viper, but I don't have that issue. I'll guess I'll ask my friend for it.
Powertrain/Chassis
Drivetrain: Front engine, RWD
Engine type: 90 degree V-8, alum block/LS6 heads, Garret twin-turbo chargers
Valve gear: OHV, 2 valves/cyl
Bore/stroke, in/mm: 4.125x4.00/104.7x101.6
Displacement: 427.6 cu in (7.0L)
Compression ratio: 9.2:1
Horsepower @ rpm: 802 @ 4600
Torque @ rpm: 866 @ 3600
Redline, rpm: 6500
Transmission: Rossler 4L60-E auto
Axle ratio: 3.42:1
Final-drive ratio: 2.39:1
Suspension, f/r: Alum upper & lower control arms, transver composite leaf springs, anti roll bars
Brakes, f/r: Brembo four-piston calipers, 14-in rotors
Wheels, f/r: LPE/HRE 18x10/19x12
Tires: 265/40ZR18/345/30ZR19 Michelin Pilot Sport
Dimensions
Wheelbase, in: 107.5
Track, f/r, in: 57.4/60.0
Length: 176.8
Width, in: 70.1
Height, in: 54.0
Curb weight, lb: 3340
Seating capacity: 2
Cargo capacity: Two golf bags
Fuel capacity, gal: 16.6
Test Data
Accelaration, sec:
0 - 30 mph: 0.83
0 - 40 mph: 1.20
0 - 50 mph: 1.59
0 - 60 mph: 1.97
0 - 70 mph: 2.44
0 - 80 mph: 3.06
0 - 90 mph: 3.67
0 - 100 mph: 4.33
0 - 150 mph: 9.21
Quarter mile, sec/mph: 9.24/150.27
0-100-0 mph, sec: 8.75
Braking, 60-0 mph, ft: 108
Skidpad, g: 1.01
Top speed 240 mph (est)
Consumer info
On sale in U.S.: Currently
Base Price: $46,400
Price as tested: $165,000 (est)
Airbags: Dual front
Basic Warranty: 3 yrs/36,000 miles
Powertrain warranty: 2 yrs/24,000 miles
EPA mpg, city/hwy: 15/24
Range, miles, city, hwy: 249/398
Recommended fuel: Unleaded premium
I would post the same for Viper, but I don't have that issue. I'll guess I'll ask my friend for it.
Pennzoil GT-R
07-26-2002, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by |Banchi1O5|
not doubting what you said
but ive never heard this
please elaborate :)
you may have seen or heard about the Jaguar XJR-15??? if u have i wouldnt need to say anymore. but in case you havent, ill explain myself in a bit more detail. The Jag was a race car, a fast (VERY fast) one at that, and due to all its aerodynamic aids it probably pulled a high amount of lateral G while cornering. But, everyone who ever drove it described it as the worst handling car of all time, the engine was mounted too high, and the 6.0 litre block was connected to a 7.0 litre head. Because of the chassis imbalance holding it on the limit was a nightmare, it had no poise and had a very quick breakaway at the limit. Yet if you were good enough/lucky enough to get it to go round the corner it would have massive amounts of grip. Cars that have good poise and good feedback as to what the car is doing can be better handling thatn something like the aforementioned Jag
not doubting what you said
but ive never heard this
please elaborate :)
you may have seen or heard about the Jaguar XJR-15??? if u have i wouldnt need to say anymore. but in case you havent, ill explain myself in a bit more detail. The Jag was a race car, a fast (VERY fast) one at that, and due to all its aerodynamic aids it probably pulled a high amount of lateral G while cornering. But, everyone who ever drove it described it as the worst handling car of all time, the engine was mounted too high, and the 6.0 litre block was connected to a 7.0 litre head. Because of the chassis imbalance holding it on the limit was a nightmare, it had no poise and had a very quick breakaway at the limit. Yet if you were good enough/lucky enough to get it to go round the corner it would have massive amounts of grip. Cars that have good poise and good feedback as to what the car is doing can be better handling thatn something like the aforementioned Jag
Pennzoil GT-R
07-26-2002, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by |Banchi1O5|
not doubting what you said
but ive never heard this
please elaborate :)
you may have seen or heard about the Jaguar XJR-15??? if u have i wouldnt need to say anymore. but in case you havent, ill explain myself in a bit more detail. The Jag was a race car, a fast (VERY fast) one at that, and due to all its aerodynamic aids it probably pulled a high amount of lateral G while cornering. But, everyone who ever drove it described it as the worst handling car of all time, the engine was mounted too high, and the 6.0 litre block was connected to a 7.0 litre head. Because of the chassis imbalance holding it on the limit was a nightmare, it had no poise and had a very quick breakaway at the limit. Yet if you were good enough/lucky enough to get it to go round the corner it would have massive amounts of grip. Cars that have good poise and good feedback as to what the car is doing can be better handling thatn something like the aforementioned Jag with its huge amounts of grip
not doubting what you said
but ive never heard this
please elaborate :)
you may have seen or heard about the Jaguar XJR-15??? if u have i wouldnt need to say anymore. but in case you havent, ill explain myself in a bit more detail. The Jag was a race car, a fast (VERY fast) one at that, and due to all its aerodynamic aids it probably pulled a high amount of lateral G while cornering. But, everyone who ever drove it described it as the worst handling car of all time, the engine was mounted too high, and the 6.0 litre block was connected to a 7.0 litre head. Because of the chassis imbalance holding it on the limit was a nightmare, it had no poise and had a very quick breakaway at the limit. Yet if you were good enough/lucky enough to get it to go round the corner it would have massive amounts of grip. Cars that have good poise and good feedback as to what the car is doing can be better handling thatn something like the aforementioned Jag with its huge amounts of grip
Viper 10
07-26-2002, 12:18 PM
Chibi:
Don't get too enthralled with stats and spec's. You should know darn well that the automakers and tuners are in deep in bed with the car magazines.
Here's and example Are Car Magazines Too Close? (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/DailyNews/2020_autoreviews_020712.html)
Pennzoil:
If G's aren't a measure of a cars handling, what is? If a car can hold superior G forces over another, it WILL handle better PERIOD. Now if you want to debate things like trail braking, threshold braking, understeer and oversteer tendencies then that is a different story that comes down to personal preferences.
FYR:
You can agree with the tuners all you want. But you are EXACTLY the kind of idiot that hands money to crooks like Hennessey, BUB. You have no idea what you are talking about with tuners and the tricks that they play. I have looked first hand at the work that the tuner gods like TNT and Hennessy have done. It is embarrassing how they rip people off.
You also don't hear things about how crappy a car like Venom 800 TT handle just going straight. I have fellow Viper owner friends who have seen these things first hand with Hennessey cars. I have seen and driven the King Snake car and can attest to the the crappy handling. Can you say the same dickhead?`
Tell me why the exact engine block that Lingenfelter uses (which is the C5R motor, needs to be refreshed after every single race? Tell me why the Viper race engines would go for 4 or 5 races between rebuilds? Screw your little specs, that's reality.
I come to this forum to shed some real life Viper ownership and track experience with you, and all you do is sit on the toilet reading your stupid magazines and take stupid pot shots .
Next time, don't get personal when debating something as stupid as this. Loosen your sphincter up a little...
I'm done with you and this thread... bub
Don't get too enthralled with stats and spec's. You should know darn well that the automakers and tuners are in deep in bed with the car magazines.
Here's and example Are Car Magazines Too Close? (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/DailyNews/2020_autoreviews_020712.html)
Pennzoil:
If G's aren't a measure of a cars handling, what is? If a car can hold superior G forces over another, it WILL handle better PERIOD. Now if you want to debate things like trail braking, threshold braking, understeer and oversteer tendencies then that is a different story that comes down to personal preferences.
FYR:
You can agree with the tuners all you want. But you are EXACTLY the kind of idiot that hands money to crooks like Hennessey, BUB. You have no idea what you are talking about with tuners and the tricks that they play. I have looked first hand at the work that the tuner gods like TNT and Hennessy have done. It is embarrassing how they rip people off.
You also don't hear things about how crappy a car like Venom 800 TT handle just going straight. I have fellow Viper owner friends who have seen these things first hand with Hennessey cars. I have seen and driven the King Snake car and can attest to the the crappy handling. Can you say the same dickhead?`
Tell me why the exact engine block that Lingenfelter uses (which is the C5R motor, needs to be refreshed after every single race? Tell me why the Viper race engines would go for 4 or 5 races between rebuilds? Screw your little specs, that's reality.
I come to this forum to shed some real life Viper ownership and track experience with you, and all you do is sit on the toilet reading your stupid magazines and take stupid pot shots .
Next time, don't get personal when debating something as stupid as this. Loosen your sphincter up a little...
I'm done with you and this thread... bub
Pennzoil GT-R
07-26-2002, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by Viper 10
Pennzoil:
If G's aren't a measure of a cars handling, what is? If a car can hold superior G forces over another, it WILL handle better PERIOD. Now if you want to debate things like trail braking, threshold braking, understeer and oversteer tendencies then that is a different story that comes down to personal preferences.
Lateral G is a measure of just that---Lateral G. Getting it to corner at that limit is a different matter. Handling ability cant be measured because... you are right, it is personal preference to a point, but would you call a car a good handling car that pulled 2G, yet if you so much as farted the back end would overtake the front? Let off the throttle, it will spin, accelerate mid corner, it will spin. do anything, it will spin. that is what i mean when i say G's arent a measure of a cars handling
Pennzoil:
If G's aren't a measure of a cars handling, what is? If a car can hold superior G forces over another, it WILL handle better PERIOD. Now if you want to debate things like trail braking, threshold braking, understeer and oversteer tendencies then that is a different story that comes down to personal preferences.
Lateral G is a measure of just that---Lateral G. Getting it to corner at that limit is a different matter. Handling ability cant be measured because... you are right, it is personal preference to a point, but would you call a car a good handling car that pulled 2G, yet if you so much as farted the back end would overtake the front? Let off the throttle, it will spin, accelerate mid corner, it will spin. do anything, it will spin. that is what i mean when i say G's arent a measure of a cars handling
papanature
07-26-2002, 12:29 PM
I like the Lingenfelter Corvette. Just a personal preference.
|Banchi1O5|
07-26-2002, 01:29 PM
ok i see what you are saying
but usually arent the breakaway limits introduced by the types of tires
40 years ago all tires were hard and you had no warning of breakaway
today most tires are soft and you can tell by the whine of their screaching that they are about to completely lose traction?
but usually arent the breakaway limits introduced by the types of tires
40 years ago all tires were hard and you had no warning of breakaway
today most tires are soft and you can tell by the whine of their screaching that they are about to completely lose traction?
Pennzoil GT-R
07-26-2002, 03:33 PM
ok i see what you are saying
but usually arent the breakaway limits introduced by the types of tires
40 years ago all tires were hard and you had no warning of breakaway
today most tires are soft and you can tell by the whine of their screaching that they are about to completely lose traction?
To a point, but mainly its to do with the way the car is setup and the fundamental design of the car that will determine its breakaway, and more so the feedback and the poise mid corner. Tyres give grip, suspension and chassis determine handling.
The GT40 is a great handling car, and that is 40+ years old, makes alot of the modern cars look stupid, as do the old Ferrari's (GTO's etc.).
but usually arent the breakaway limits introduced by the types of tires
40 years ago all tires were hard and you had no warning of breakaway
today most tires are soft and you can tell by the whine of their screaching that they are about to completely lose traction?
To a point, but mainly its to do with the way the car is setup and the fundamental design of the car that will determine its breakaway, and more so the feedback and the poise mid corner. Tyres give grip, suspension and chassis determine handling.
The GT40 is a great handling car, and that is 40+ years old, makes alot of the modern cars look stupid, as do the old Ferrari's (GTO's etc.).
Pennzoil GT-R
07-26-2002, 03:45 PM
ok i see what you are saying
but usually arent the breakaway limits introduced by the types of tires
40 years ago all tires were hard and you had no warning of breakaway
today most tires are soft and you can tell by the whine of their screaching that they are about to completely lose traction?
To a point, but mainly its to do with the way the car is setup and the fundamental design of the car that will determine its breakaway, and more so the feedback and the poise mid corner. Tyres give grip, suspension and chassis determine handling.
The GT40 is a great handling car, and that is 40+ years old, makes alot of the modern cars look stupid, as do the old Ferrari's (GTO's etc.).
but usually arent the breakaway limits introduced by the types of tires
40 years ago all tires were hard and you had no warning of breakaway
today most tires are soft and you can tell by the whine of their screaching that they are about to completely lose traction?
To a point, but mainly its to do with the way the car is setup and the fundamental design of the car that will determine its breakaway, and more so the feedback and the poise mid corner. Tyres give grip, suspension and chassis determine handling.
The GT40 is a great handling car, and that is 40+ years old, makes alot of the modern cars look stupid, as do the old Ferrari's (GTO's etc.).
Porsche
07-26-2002, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by Hamann
The Corvete is faster and the Viper looks better, but I want to see track times and not drag strip times. Until then, I rather have a Porsche Gemballa 911 600 GTR.
Now your talking, make it a 650!
As for me, this is one of those comparo I'm undecided on, I don't like Vettes, but this one goes like stink. And Vipers are drop dead gorgeous, but this one isn't that fast .
The Corvete is faster and the Viper looks better, but I want to see track times and not drag strip times. Until then, I rather have a Porsche Gemballa 911 600 GTR.
Now your talking, make it a 650!
As for me, this is one of those comparo I'm undecided on, I don't like Vettes, but this one goes like stink. And Vipers are drop dead gorgeous, but this one isn't that fast .
FYRHWK1
07-27-2002, 12:37 AM
Originally posted by Viper 10
Chibi:
Don't get too enthralled with stats and spec's. You should know darn well that the automakers and tuners are in deep in bed with the car magazines.
Here's and example Are Car Magazines Too Close? (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/DailyNews/2020_autoreviews_020712.html)
Pennzoil:
If G's aren't a measure of a cars handling, what is? If a car can hold superior G forces over another, it WILL handle better PERIOD. Now if you want to debate things like trail braking, threshold braking, understeer and oversteer tendencies then that is a different story that comes down to personal preferences.
FYR:
You can agree with the tuners all you want. But you are EXACTLY the kind of idiot that hands money to crooks like Hennessey, BUB. You have no idea what you are talking about with tuners and the tricks that they play. I have looked first hand at the work that the tuner gods like TNT and Hennessy have done. It is embarrassing how they rip people off.
You also don't hear things about how crappy a car like Venom 800 TT handle just going straight. I have fellow Viper owner friends who have seen these things first hand with Hennessey cars. I have seen and driven the King Snake car and can attest to the the crappy handling. Can you say the same dickhead?`
Tell me why the exact engine block that Lingenfelter uses (which is the C5R motor, needs to be refreshed after every single race? Tell me why the Viper race engines would go for 4 or 5 races between rebuilds? Screw your little specs, that's reality.
I come to this forum to shed some real life Viper ownership and track experience with you, and all you do is sit on the toilet reading your stupid magazines and take stupid pot shots .
Next time, don't get personal when debating something as stupid as this. Loosen your sphincter up a little...
I'm done with you and this thread... bub
i'm going to agree with them because they know more then you do, which doesnt seem to be hard to do, and they also know more then I. Lingenfelter does charge too much, but he doesnt rip people off, he has built a daily drivable 9.5 sec automatic C5, argue till you pass out, he's done it and you have not. and i wasnt defending hennessey, hes a crook working on a inferior platform compared to John L. but thats his problem. PROVE the C5-R needs to be refreshed after every race, and that the GTS-R engine doesnt, I'd LOVE to see this. I'm not expecting anything because i know you're lying, but maybe it'll shut you up. and you are the one who is getting defensive here, you take this all personally, and you cant stand to admit the fact that the viper is far from the end of all performance and the car to beat, its not.
Chibi:
Don't get too enthralled with stats and spec's. You should know darn well that the automakers and tuners are in deep in bed with the car magazines.
Here's and example Are Car Magazines Too Close? (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/DailyNews/2020_autoreviews_020712.html)
Pennzoil:
If G's aren't a measure of a cars handling, what is? If a car can hold superior G forces over another, it WILL handle better PERIOD. Now if you want to debate things like trail braking, threshold braking, understeer and oversteer tendencies then that is a different story that comes down to personal preferences.
FYR:
You can agree with the tuners all you want. But you are EXACTLY the kind of idiot that hands money to crooks like Hennessey, BUB. You have no idea what you are talking about with tuners and the tricks that they play. I have looked first hand at the work that the tuner gods like TNT and Hennessy have done. It is embarrassing how they rip people off.
You also don't hear things about how crappy a car like Venom 800 TT handle just going straight. I have fellow Viper owner friends who have seen these things first hand with Hennessey cars. I have seen and driven the King Snake car and can attest to the the crappy handling. Can you say the same dickhead?`
Tell me why the exact engine block that Lingenfelter uses (which is the C5R motor, needs to be refreshed after every single race? Tell me why the Viper race engines would go for 4 or 5 races between rebuilds? Screw your little specs, that's reality.
I come to this forum to shed some real life Viper ownership and track experience with you, and all you do is sit on the toilet reading your stupid magazines and take stupid pot shots .
Next time, don't get personal when debating something as stupid as this. Loosen your sphincter up a little...
I'm done with you and this thread... bub
i'm going to agree with them because they know more then you do, which doesnt seem to be hard to do, and they also know more then I. Lingenfelter does charge too much, but he doesnt rip people off, he has built a daily drivable 9.5 sec automatic C5, argue till you pass out, he's done it and you have not. and i wasnt defending hennessey, hes a crook working on a inferior platform compared to John L. but thats his problem. PROVE the C5-R needs to be refreshed after every race, and that the GTS-R engine doesnt, I'd LOVE to see this. I'm not expecting anything because i know you're lying, but maybe it'll shut you up. and you are the one who is getting defensive here, you take this all personally, and you cant stand to admit the fact that the viper is far from the end of all performance and the car to beat, its not.
flylwsi
08-29-2002, 05:18 PM
in the most recent car and driver mag, there is a comparo of supercars...
lingenfelter won out over everyone... including the hennessey...
also in the issue is an editorial about the status of hennessey and his issues with the BBB. i recommend checking it out, as they shed some light on his operation, and he admits to taking on a bit too much, and shooting himself in the foot at times...
but the lingenfelter won the shootout...
check it out...
lingenfelter won out over everyone... including the hennessey...
also in the issue is an editorial about the status of hennessey and his issues with the BBB. i recommend checking it out, as they shed some light on his operation, and he admits to taking on a bit too much, and shooting himself in the foot at times...
but the lingenfelter won the shootout...
check it out...
flylwsi
08-29-2002, 05:20 PM
oh, yeah...
skidpad g's are measured while making the car go in a circle, aka turning... what do you do in a corner? i would call that turning... that's why it's relevant, and yeah, the skidpad g's and cornering g's are the same...
aero aids help out at high speeds cornering, but on a street car, the aero is pretty much the same b/n the viper and vette, so if you have better skidpad g's, you will have better cornering in general...
keep in mind that the vette is less tail happy than the tq monster viper... which tends to break traction just for fun... and that's just on stock cars... vettes historically handle better than vipers b/c they are more well balanced...
skidpad g's are measured while making the car go in a circle, aka turning... what do you do in a corner? i would call that turning... that's why it's relevant, and yeah, the skidpad g's and cornering g's are the same...
aero aids help out at high speeds cornering, but on a street car, the aero is pretty much the same b/n the viper and vette, so if you have better skidpad g's, you will have better cornering in general...
keep in mind that the vette is less tail happy than the tq monster viper... which tends to break traction just for fun... and that's just on stock cars... vettes historically handle better than vipers b/c they are more well balanced...
v10_viper
08-29-2002, 07:53 PM
yea i remember that, i think i got it about a month ago. it's kinda bull though the TNT Viper i think got time added because it was "too loud", i mean it's the biggest litre engine there of course it's gonna be loud, i mean they coulda made it quiter through the exhaust but why would u do that?? but then when they tested the three stock cars the Viper beat the Z06 and placed behind the Porsche Turbo, i think if they would have had a better driver for the Viper, which was an ACR, i think it might have beat the Turbo but maybe not. i like most all of those cars in that supercar test but i'd like to see some more exotics personally, Ferraris, maybe some tuned M3's but i guess people who buy them cars wont race them. i think one of the reasons the Hennessy did so bad was because on street tires it just incinerates them and it's hard to get grip probably but 4th place overall for the hennessy isn't bad so i wont fight. i think that Vipers, being a big c.i. engine should stick to non forced aspiration, along with other big cubic inch engines such as the vette. the Apex Lethal 750 Viper is nice to, and it placed 6 so that's not that bad, cept that stupid entertainment center they have in it, really where would it fit?? and if the TNT wouldn't have gotten that penalty for being loud then all the snakes woulda been in the top ten but otherwise, all of those cars are extremely nice, this has probably been one of my most favorite issues from C&D cept for the one where they had the new Viper in it.
S Brake
09-05-2002, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by Gravitom
So the Viper didn't bore its block and add twin turbos, how is that an excuse for it performing worse?This is taken directly from Motor Trend, At full throttle, the Venom 800 Twin-Turbo pulls so ungodly hard your face...
The viper was infact a Twin Turbo
So the Viper didn't bore its block and add twin turbos, how is that an excuse for it performing worse?This is taken directly from Motor Trend, At full throttle, the Venom 800 Twin-Turbo pulls so ungodly hard your face...
The viper was infact a Twin Turbo
Chris
09-11-2002, 04:15 PM
The C&D comparison pitted the Corvette driven by an editor against a Porsche driven by Hurley Haywood (remember, hes driven Porsches since the stone age??), and a Corvette driven by John Heinrichy. However, the vette had a problem: it hit a cone, which ruined its final run. Also, the Vette was faster around the course, and braked alot better. It just doesn't have the grunt (stock) to make up for it.
So, I go with the Lingenfelter. You a get a quality piece in short order, that is amazingly fast.
Actually, no, I would get a Mosler MT900 with the Lingenfelter 427TT. That would be impressive:eek:
So, I go with the Lingenfelter. You a get a quality piece in short order, that is amazingly fast.
Actually, no, I would get a Mosler MT900 with the Lingenfelter 427TT. That would be impressive:eek:
Pennzoil GT-R
09-11-2002, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by flylwsi
oh, yeah...
skidpad g's are measured while making the car go in a circle, aka turning... what do you do in a corner? i would call that turning... that's why it's relevant, and yeah, the skidpad g's and cornering g's are the same...
aero aids help out at high speeds cornering, but on a street car, the aero is pretty much the same b/n the viper and vette, so if you have better skidpad g's, you will have better cornering in general...
keep in mind that the vette is less tail happy than the tq monster viper... which tends to break traction just for fun... and that's just on stock cars... vettes historically handle better than vipers b/c they are more well balanced...
how many corners are there that are nice smooth constant radius circles in a controlled environment? that are preceded by a striaght and followed by a straight. in real conditions a car will have to dive through varying radius corners, changing camber, and hairpins. that is why skidpad G's dont mean much in handling. if you dont understand by now i doubt you ever will
oh, yeah...
skidpad g's are measured while making the car go in a circle, aka turning... what do you do in a corner? i would call that turning... that's why it's relevant, and yeah, the skidpad g's and cornering g's are the same...
aero aids help out at high speeds cornering, but on a street car, the aero is pretty much the same b/n the viper and vette, so if you have better skidpad g's, you will have better cornering in general...
keep in mind that the vette is less tail happy than the tq monster viper... which tends to break traction just for fun... and that's just on stock cars... vettes historically handle better than vipers b/c they are more well balanced...
how many corners are there that are nice smooth constant radius circles in a controlled environment? that are preceded by a striaght and followed by a straight. in real conditions a car will have to dive through varying radius corners, changing camber, and hairpins. that is why skidpad G's dont mean much in handling. if you dont understand by now i doubt you ever will
v10_viper
09-11-2002, 07:39 PM
When they fill out how many g's a car can pull i think they should put at what speed they pulled it, cuz part of what your saying is true, if it's such a tight corner that a car can only take it at 30 then it's not going to pull as many g's as when it's top force is, beyond that your suspension and tires give up on you. But lateral skidpad g's do tell how fast you can handle a corner. i mean when they do this they literally sit in the car going around on a 600 foot diameter circle (i think, please correct me if i'm wrong bout the measurment) and speed up until the car reaches it's breakaway point, if they dont tell you how fast you can take a corner then tell me why the hell they'd give you what a car can pull for g's if it's for nothing.
Chris
09-12-2002, 08:22 AM
Actually, they time how fast the car can go around the skidpad, and translate that speed into the g rating. So, if your car can only go 10mph, it will have a super-low g rating. This doesn't mean it cant steer worth a crap, it just means that it cant go around the circle fast. For most cars, though, reaching terminal velocity is not a problem. So the G rating is still valid.
But, yes, it is not the best indicator of track performance. The Supra got a great G rating, but due to its high weight, it was not so great on the track, where weigh transfer and a host of other factors come into play.
But, yes, it is not the best indicator of track performance. The Supra got a great G rating, but due to its high weight, it was not so great on the track, where weigh transfer and a host of other factors come into play.
FYRHWK1
01-23-2003, 06:32 PM
how many corners are there that are nice smooth constant radius circles in a controlled environment? that are preceded by a striaght and followed by a straight. in real conditions a car will have to dive through varying radius corners, changing camber, and hairpins. that is why skidpad G's dont mean much in handling. if you dont understand by now i doubt you ever will
Thats not entirely true, lateral Gs can be taken on any kind of radius turn since its the distance traveled times the speed or some kind of math, i'm not quite sure how they measure it.
But, the maximum lateral load will tell you how hard you can push your car through any given turn, granted changing radius turns will give different load ratings and the angle of the front wheels will likely cause the front to give way with a sharper radius, the maximum lateral load on a skidpad is pretty much the most you can accomplish, it gives a good idea of what your car can take laterally.
It also tells you which way your car is set up, in terms of under or oversteer, but its just 1 small part of the cars overall ability.
Thats not entirely true, lateral Gs can be taken on any kind of radius turn since its the distance traveled times the speed or some kind of math, i'm not quite sure how they measure it.
But, the maximum lateral load will tell you how hard you can push your car through any given turn, granted changing radius turns will give different load ratings and the angle of the front wheels will likely cause the front to give way with a sharper radius, the maximum lateral load on a skidpad is pretty much the most you can accomplish, it gives a good idea of what your car can take laterally.
It also tells you which way your car is set up, in terms of under or oversteer, but its just 1 small part of the cars overall ability.
flylwsi
01-23-2003, 06:46 PM
i appreciate the backup on this topic...
g's are g's. end of story.
the g's on a skidpad are more of the extreme than on a race track, and i'm sure if you measured the extreme g's on a track and a skid pad, they'd be the same, or close...
a skid pad only measures part of it however, is it doesn't account for the downforce and all the other goodies that have an effect on your car at the track...
and i'm not saying it completely ignores them, however, they do not come into as much light as on a track.
g's are g's. end of story.
the g's on a skidpad are more of the extreme than on a race track, and i'm sure if you measured the extreme g's on a track and a skid pad, they'd be the same, or close...
a skid pad only measures part of it however, is it doesn't account for the downforce and all the other goodies that have an effect on your car at the track...
and i'm not saying it completely ignores them, however, they do not come into as much light as on a track.
Chris
01-23-2003, 08:18 PM
Well, instant lateral g's can be much higher than the constant achieved at a race track. Also, transitions might not be smooth. Case in point, a Supra gets great numbers, but at the track, it high weight turns into unsettled handling. As such, it is not as good a track car as it would seem at first. As such, the slalom course is extremely important in handling terms. For example, the new Mini has a great slalom, but an average g-rating. We can therefor deduce that the mini has excellent transient behaviour; that it will not go around a turn at extremely high speeds, but it will go from corner to corner of varying radiuses very quickly. Also, it would be a hoot to drive.
My $.02
My $.02
SuPeRcAr_MaN
01-23-2003, 08:37 PM
Corvette. Don't feel like putting a reason. ;)
flylwsi
01-23-2003, 08:38 PM
chris, i think you said what i meant...
Polygon
01-23-2003, 10:21 PM
The Vette, simply because Hennessey doesn't know shit about working on cars and screws people over. However, a properly modded Viper has my vote.
flylwsi
01-24-2003, 02:46 AM
there's a good write up about hennessey in the issue of of road & track (?) that i mentioned...
and they talked about his "sketchiness" and what not... i'll see if i can find it and throw it up in here... it posts him in a fair light, not just the usual "he screws people over"... they talked to him, as they knew about the issues, and he gave his side, so it's a more even argument at least...
and they talked about his "sketchiness" and what not... i'll see if i can find it and throw it up in here... it posts him in a fair light, not just the usual "he screws people over"... they talked to him, as they knew about the issues, and he gave his side, so it's a more even argument at least...
Pick
02-25-2003, 07:36 PM
Corvette-nuf said.
speeder94
03-02-2003, 03:30 PM
covette has always been the best and it will always be
v10_viper
03-02-2003, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by speeder94
covette has always been the best and it will always be
no actually it isn't, and wont always be, the new Viper SRT-10 beats it in performance by a shitload. there are countless cars that can beat it. judging by all of your other posts you are just a Chevy/Corvette fan boy.
covette has always been the best and it will always be
no actually it isn't, and wont always be, the new Viper SRT-10 beats it in performance by a shitload. there are countless cars that can beat it. judging by all of your other posts you are just a Chevy/Corvette fan boy.
FYRHWK1
03-03-2003, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by v10_viper
no actually it isn't, and wont always be, the new Viper SRT-10 beats it in performance by a shitload. there are countless cars that can beat it. judging by all of your other posts you are just a Chevy/Corvette fan boy.
well, considering as how the current viper is roughly a half second faster through the 1/4 mile, and doesn't particularly handle any better then a Z06, for th eprice the corvette is at the top of it's league, and theres always the new gen corvette to go against the new SRT-10, the gap won't be far at all.
no actually it isn't, and wont always be, the new Viper SRT-10 beats it in performance by a shitload. there are countless cars that can beat it. judging by all of your other posts you are just a Chevy/Corvette fan boy.
well, considering as how the current viper is roughly a half second faster through the 1/4 mile, and doesn't particularly handle any better then a Z06, for th eprice the corvette is at the top of it's league, and theres always the new gen corvette to go against the new SRT-10, the gap won't be far at all.
GT-R4life
03-03-2003, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by TatII
lingenfelter corvette. 0-60 in 1.97 seconds, 0-100 in 4.33 seconds. nuff said.
Indeed. I'm going with the vette.
lingenfelter corvette. 0-60 in 1.97 seconds, 0-100 in 4.33 seconds. nuff said.
Indeed. I'm going with the vette.
bdanstrong
03-13-2003, 03:23 PM
It seems like you know how to read the g-ratings of the viper and vette but thats about it. Your comment "anyone can make a car go fast in a 1/4 mile is rediculous. How fast is your car in the quarter mile? and if it was as simple as gears he wouldnt be posting a mph of over 150. Stick to reading the magazines not analyzing Hi performance genious like lingenfelter. also lingenfelter gives a 2 year 24000 mile warranty on his twin turbo setups. So if it only goes to 10k miles as you say, which I feel pretty confident you dont own one, send it back. Also anyone who has built a car with more than 500 or 600 horsepower they know its not supposed to be reliable. its high performance. Have a nice day everyone.
JMS
03-15-2003, 07:07 AM
Originally posted by v10_viper
no actually it isn't, and wont always be, the new Viper SRT-10 beats it in performance by a shitload. there are countless cars that can beat it. judging by all of your other posts you are just a Chevy/Corvette fan boy.
lol. Motor Trend did a comparison between the Vette Z06 and the Viper ACR. The vette apparently kicked its ass. The only thing the viper did good in was the 1/4 mile.
no actually it isn't, and wont always be, the new Viper SRT-10 beats it in performance by a shitload. there are countless cars that can beat it. judging by all of your other posts you are just a Chevy/Corvette fan boy.
lol. Motor Trend did a comparison between the Vette Z06 and the Viper ACR. The vette apparently kicked its ass. The only thing the viper did good in was the 1/4 mile.
bdanstrong
03-15-2003, 07:58 AM
JMS do you know brad, you talk the same.
First of all Lingenfelter has won the super tuner award more times than I can count. If you remember last years supertuner shootout. Yeah I do neither the hennessy viper or the other viper could even finish the competition. I am simply saying read the facts. 9 out of 10 times a lingenfelter setup will smack the shit out of any hennessy setup you can compare whatever numbers you want or make whatever arguments you want but history tells the tail. Lingenfelters vette stomped the AWD Twin turbo porche. I know it sucks but just admit it. Lingenfelter has better setups. you may like mopar shit that is fine. but at least admit the facts.
have a nice day.
First of all Lingenfelter has won the super tuner award more times than I can count. If you remember last years supertuner shootout. Yeah I do neither the hennessy viper or the other viper could even finish the competition. I am simply saying read the facts. 9 out of 10 times a lingenfelter setup will smack the shit out of any hennessy setup you can compare whatever numbers you want or make whatever arguments you want but history tells the tail. Lingenfelters vette stomped the AWD Twin turbo porche. I know it sucks but just admit it. Lingenfelter has better setups. you may like mopar shit that is fine. but at least admit the facts.
have a nice day.
Polygon
05-15-2003, 01:33 AM
Originally posted by JMS
lol. Motor Trend did a comparison between the Vette Z06 and the Viper ACR. The vette apparently kicked its ass. The only thing the viper did good in was the 1/4 mile.
I hate to break it to you, but the Viper's least best at the 1/4 mile. The Z06 is more forgiving, but the Viper is a track car. It is hard to handle but in the hands of an experienced driver it will thrash a Vette in the twisties.
I don't get why people think that the Viper can't handle. As for Motor Trend, they have a bias against Chrysler and always have. They hardly have any good articles on Mopars. And any magazine that would give the Chevy Avalanche the truck of the year over the new Ram last year is STUPID. If you're going to be a magazine ricer, you should at least get a better magazine.
lol. Motor Trend did a comparison between the Vette Z06 and the Viper ACR. The vette apparently kicked its ass. The only thing the viper did good in was the 1/4 mile.
I hate to break it to you, but the Viper's least best at the 1/4 mile. The Z06 is more forgiving, but the Viper is a track car. It is hard to handle but in the hands of an experienced driver it will thrash a Vette in the twisties.
I don't get why people think that the Viper can't handle. As for Motor Trend, they have a bias against Chrysler and always have. They hardly have any good articles on Mopars. And any magazine that would give the Chevy Avalanche the truck of the year over the new Ram last year is STUPID. If you're going to be a magazine ricer, you should at least get a better magazine.
TexasF355F1
05-15-2003, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by Polygon
I hate to break it to you, but the Viper's least best at the 1/4 mile. The Z06 is more forgiving, but the Viper is a track car. It is hard to handle but in the hands of an experienced driver it will thrash a Vette in the twisties.
I don't get why people think that the Viper can't handle. As for Motor Trend, they have a bias against Chrysler and always have. They hardly have any good articles on Mopars. And any magazine that would give the Chevy Avalanche the truck of the year over the new Ram last year is STUPID. If you're going to be a magazine ricer, you should at least get a better magazine.
Well the main reason the Avalanche was given the truck of the year was b/c of the whole functionality of it. And besides most magazines are Chevy biased except the ones written specifically for a certain brand.
I hate to break it to you, but the Viper's least best at the 1/4 mile. The Z06 is more forgiving, but the Viper is a track car. It is hard to handle but in the hands of an experienced driver it will thrash a Vette in the twisties.
I don't get why people think that the Viper can't handle. As for Motor Trend, they have a bias against Chrysler and always have. They hardly have any good articles on Mopars. And any magazine that would give the Chevy Avalanche the truck of the year over the new Ram last year is STUPID. If you're going to be a magazine ricer, you should at least get a better magazine.
Well the main reason the Avalanche was given the truck of the year was b/c of the whole functionality of it. And besides most magazines are Chevy biased except the ones written specifically for a certain brand.
flylwsi
05-15-2003, 06:24 PM
i just reread this whole thing... and there's some really funny posts...
from the same post...
These cars are built for one thing, and that is straight line drag racing.
1/4 mile times are irrelevant because there is a good chance that Lingenfelter is running some stupid gears like 4.04 against the Vipers 3.07's. You can make ANY car do quick 1/4 miles...
and in a later post... the rear gearing of the vette is noted...
Transmission: Rossler 4L60-E auto
Axle ratio: 3.42:1
Final-drive ratio: 2.39:1
sounds like some people don't really want to admit defeat...
simple fact is that the hennessy and lingenfelter cost the same, but can't compete. the vette is better. end of story...
Tell me why the exact engine block that Lingenfelter uses (which is the C5R motor, needs to be refreshed after every single race? Tell me why the Viper race engines would go for 4 or 5 races between rebuilds?
that's funny.
you think that the viper motor really sat, without being rebuilt b/n races?
naive...
there's also a statement about the viper being faster stock than a vette...
and?
your point is?
it cost about 30-40k more than a zo6, has about 100 more hp, it's only a couple tenths faster, doesn't handle as well as the vette, and you're touting that as it being better than a zo6?
that almost makes sense...
from the same post...
These cars are built for one thing, and that is straight line drag racing.
1/4 mile times are irrelevant because there is a good chance that Lingenfelter is running some stupid gears like 4.04 against the Vipers 3.07's. You can make ANY car do quick 1/4 miles...
and in a later post... the rear gearing of the vette is noted...
Transmission: Rossler 4L60-E auto
Axle ratio: 3.42:1
Final-drive ratio: 2.39:1
sounds like some people don't really want to admit defeat...
simple fact is that the hennessy and lingenfelter cost the same, but can't compete. the vette is better. end of story...
Tell me why the exact engine block that Lingenfelter uses (which is the C5R motor, needs to be refreshed after every single race? Tell me why the Viper race engines would go for 4 or 5 races between rebuilds?
that's funny.
you think that the viper motor really sat, without being rebuilt b/n races?
naive...
there's also a statement about the viper being faster stock than a vette...
and?
your point is?
it cost about 30-40k more than a zo6, has about 100 more hp, it's only a couple tenths faster, doesn't handle as well as the vette, and you're touting that as it being better than a zo6?
that almost makes sense...
v10_viper
05-15-2003, 07:34 PM
it cost about 30-40k more than a zo6, has about 100 more hp, it's only a couple tenths faster, doesn't handle as well as the vette, and you're touting that as it being better than a zo6?
that almost makes sense...
well with as much horsepower as the Viper has it is hard to get grip, go to any thread about the Vipers performance and you'll find issues about traction, shoulda thought about that before you said it didn't make sense
I hate to break it to you, but the Viper's least best at the 1/4 mile. The Z06 is more forgiving, but the Viper is a track car. It is hard to handle but in the hands of an experienced driver it will thrash a Vette in the twisties.
I don't get why people think that the Viper can't handle. As for Motor Trend, they have a bias against Chrysler and always have. They hardly have any good articles on Mopars. And any magazine that would give the Chevy Avalanche the truck of the year over the new Ram last year is STUPID. If you're going to be a magazine ricer, you should at least get a better magazine.
Well said.
Yeah I do neither the hennessy viper or the other viper could even finish the competition. If your talking about the most recen one done by Car and Driver, your full of it, all the Vipers finished, and the TNT Viper got shit on because of their sound limits. I personally would like to see the Vette tested with it's stock size tires, lets see it do a 0-60 in 1.97 seconds there, doubt it, although i'll admit they are damn fast, i do know that and wont deny that it's faster than the 800TT but put thos 26 inch tires that are mounted on the 16 inch rim on the Viper and I bet it's close, if not faster, but defianetly closer. As far as Mopar, it is no where near shit, farther from it than any other american company. Prove it you say?? Lets see anyone build a 655 CID engine that bolts up to stock trannys and for you ricer boys, it makes well over 100 hp per litre.
lol. Motor Trend did a comparison between the Vette Z06 and the Viper ACR. The vette apparently kicked its ass. The only thing the viper did good in was the 1/4 mile.
that was a stupid statement, realize these are magazine editors testing supercars?? they dont know how to drive it, the Viper needs plenty of experience, finally they brought in a proffessional driver, and the Viper performed amazing, and also broke records. BUT, as FYRHWK said, the Vette is the best bang for the buck. It's very possible the new C6 might perform better than the new Vipers, but we'll just see....
that almost makes sense...
well with as much horsepower as the Viper has it is hard to get grip, go to any thread about the Vipers performance and you'll find issues about traction, shoulda thought about that before you said it didn't make sense
I hate to break it to you, but the Viper's least best at the 1/4 mile. The Z06 is more forgiving, but the Viper is a track car. It is hard to handle but in the hands of an experienced driver it will thrash a Vette in the twisties.
I don't get why people think that the Viper can't handle. As for Motor Trend, they have a bias against Chrysler and always have. They hardly have any good articles on Mopars. And any magazine that would give the Chevy Avalanche the truck of the year over the new Ram last year is STUPID. If you're going to be a magazine ricer, you should at least get a better magazine.
Well said.
Yeah I do neither the hennessy viper or the other viper could even finish the competition. If your talking about the most recen one done by Car and Driver, your full of it, all the Vipers finished, and the TNT Viper got shit on because of their sound limits. I personally would like to see the Vette tested with it's stock size tires, lets see it do a 0-60 in 1.97 seconds there, doubt it, although i'll admit they are damn fast, i do know that and wont deny that it's faster than the 800TT but put thos 26 inch tires that are mounted on the 16 inch rim on the Viper and I bet it's close, if not faster, but defianetly closer. As far as Mopar, it is no where near shit, farther from it than any other american company. Prove it you say?? Lets see anyone build a 655 CID engine that bolts up to stock trannys and for you ricer boys, it makes well over 100 hp per litre.
lol. Motor Trend did a comparison between the Vette Z06 and the Viper ACR. The vette apparently kicked its ass. The only thing the viper did good in was the 1/4 mile.
that was a stupid statement, realize these are magazine editors testing supercars?? they dont know how to drive it, the Viper needs plenty of experience, finally they brought in a proffessional driver, and the Viper performed amazing, and also broke records. BUT, as FYRHWK said, the Vette is the best bang for the buck. It's very possible the new C6 might perform better than the new Vipers, but we'll just see....
v10_viper
05-15-2003, 07:35 PM
BTW, have you seen dyno graphs of a Viper, have you seen how flat it's torqe curves are and hp, you can hardly call them curves, no other car out there thas power like that.
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