Buy American!
BlenderWizard
10-27-2005, 01:22 PM
Rollingbones
10-27-2005, 03:05 PM
American what???? My truck was made in Canada!!!
BlenderWizard
10-27-2005, 03:08 PM
but built by an american company... many nissans, hondas, hyundais, etc are built here, but they are not an american company
Ape0r
10-27-2005, 03:31 PM
The article goes on to say that 29 of the top 31 most reliable were foreign...
That said, I don't want no damn Jap pickup, the hell do they know about building a truck? What? They need somethin' to haul their rice around?
As far as a car.. shoot, I'd buy what I liked the most. That 2006 Impala sure is nice lookin', a whole lot nicer lookin' than the ugly ass Camry!
That said, I don't want no damn Jap pickup, the hell do they know about building a truck? What? They need somethin' to haul their rice around?
As far as a car.. shoot, I'd buy what I liked the most. That 2006 Impala sure is nice lookin', a whole lot nicer lookin' than the ugly ass Camry!
BlenderWizard
10-27-2005, 03:41 PM
The article goes on to say that 29 of the top 31 most reliable were foreign...
That said, I don't want no damn Jap pickup, the hell do they know about building a truck? What? They need somethin' to haul their rice around?
As far as a car.. shoot, I'd buy what I liked the most. That 2006 Impala sure is nice lookin', a whole lot nicer lookin' than the ugly ass Camry!
That's exactly what I mean. Also, when you buy from a Japanese company, where do you think the money usually goes? Back to Japan.
That said, I don't want no damn Jap pickup, the hell do they know about building a truck? What? They need somethin' to haul their rice around?
As far as a car.. shoot, I'd buy what I liked the most. That 2006 Impala sure is nice lookin', a whole lot nicer lookin' than the ugly ass Camry!
That's exactly what I mean. Also, when you buy from a Japanese company, where do you think the money usually goes? Back to Japan.
LongIslander26
10-27-2005, 09:53 PM
That's exactly what I mean. Also, when you buy from a Japanese company, where do you think the money usually goes? Back to Japan.
It might have been a bit more interesting if they had actually listed what the domestic vehicles on that list actually were! :2cents:
It might have been a bit more interesting if they had actually listed what the domestic vehicles on that list actually were! :2cents:
scrapdaddy
10-27-2005, 11:17 PM
It might have been a bit more interesting if they had actually listed what the domestic vehicles on that list actually were! :2cents:
IF U WANNA GET TECHNICAL EVEN THE AMERICAN VECHILES ARE JAPANESE WHERE DO U THINK ALL THE PARTS ARE MADE AND THEN SHIPPED TO THE STATES TO BE ASSEMBLED
IF U WANNA GET TECHNICAL EVEN THE AMERICAN VECHILES ARE JAPANESE WHERE DO U THINK ALL THE PARTS ARE MADE AND THEN SHIPPED TO THE STATES TO BE ASSEMBLED
troy1
10-27-2005, 11:21 PM
I like my american truck but..... jap quaility is 2nd to none. They will probally make the big 3 think about what they are doing. Oh Toyota is making 3/4 and heavier Diesel powered trucks soon.
LongIslander26
10-27-2005, 11:38 PM
IF U WANNA GET TECHNICAL EVEN THE AMERICAN VECHILES ARE JAPANESE WHERE DO U THINK ALL THE PARTS ARE MADE AND THEN SHIPPED TO THE STATES TO BE ASSEMBLED
True enough. I see alot of parts made in Mexico, and the South American counties as well, and these are dealer parts too. I guess nowadays, you can only really call any brand "Domestic: or "Import" based solely on where their corporate headquarters are. (Detroit vs Tokyo or Berlin, etc, etc) :confused:
True enough. I see alot of parts made in Mexico, and the South American counties as well, and these are dealer parts too. I guess nowadays, you can only really call any brand "Domestic: or "Import" based solely on where their corporate headquarters are. (Detroit vs Tokyo or Berlin, etc, etc) :confused:
scrapdaddy
10-27-2005, 11:52 PM
True enough. I see alot of parts made in Mexico, and the South American counties as well, and these are dealer parts too. I guess nowadays, you can only really call any brand "Domestic: or "Import" based solely on where their corporate headquarters are. (Detroit vs Tokyo or Berlin, etc, etc) :confused:
BUT IN MY OPINION THERE IS ONLY 1 AUTO MAKER AND THATS GM THE REST CAN BLOW ME
BUT IN MY OPINION THERE IS ONLY 1 AUTO MAKER AND THATS GM THE REST CAN BLOW ME
BlenderWizard
10-28-2005, 12:00 AM
I like my american truck but..... jap quaility is 2nd to none. They will probally make the big 3 think about what they are doing. Oh Toyota is making 3/4 and heavier Diesel powered trucks soon.
Jap trucks are for yuppies who drive "Bimmers" (yes I said Bimmers. Everyone says "Beamers," but the BMW crowd seems to think it's spelled Bimmer) 6 days a week and have got their heads so far up their own asses, they can't even bear to look at an American product. Also, if you check that list, the Nissan Titan was "among the 48 least-reliable cars and trucks sold, the survey found."
BUT IN MY OPINION THERE IS ONLY 1 AUTO MAKER AND THATS GM THE REST CAN BLOW ME
:werd:
Jap trucks are for yuppies who drive "Bimmers" (yes I said Bimmers. Everyone says "Beamers," but the BMW crowd seems to think it's spelled Bimmer) 6 days a week and have got their heads so far up their own asses, they can't even bear to look at an American product. Also, if you check that list, the Nissan Titan was "among the 48 least-reliable cars and trucks sold, the survey found."
BUT IN MY OPINION THERE IS ONLY 1 AUTO MAKER AND THATS GM THE REST CAN BLOW ME
:werd:
Rollingbones
10-28-2005, 12:52 AM
Nothing but Chevy in my driveway!!! '02 Superado and '05 Malibu Maxx (Niiiiice car!!). I ride Scwinn bikes too!!!
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/2091000-2091999/2091586_1_full.jpg
:naughty: :naughty: :smokin: :naughty: :smokin: :naughty: :smokin: :naughty: :smokin: :naughty: :smokin: :bigthumb: :evillol: :bigthumb: :bigthumb:
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/2091000-2091999/2091586_1_full.jpg
:naughty: :naughty: :smokin: :naughty: :smokin: :naughty: :smokin: :naughty: :smokin: :naughty: :smokin: :bigthumb: :evillol: :bigthumb: :bigthumb:
White Lightening
10-28-2005, 05:57 AM
but built by an american company... many nissans, hondas, hyundais, etc are built here, but they are not an american company
Blender, I think you have your priorties confused. Nissan, Honda, Hundai and others build vehicles in the U.S. by American workers. Meanwhile my 04 Chevy Silverado was built in Canada by Canadian workers.
Your thinking is that SAAB and Jaguar aren't "foreign" because they are owned by international companies basedin the U.S. (GM and Ford). Chrysler/Dodge isn't owned as an American company.
When you talk about company ownership - GM, Ford, Chrysler, Honda, Toyota, Hundai, etc. etc. etc. are all international automotive manufacturers. Where they create the jobs is the important thing - and their jobs in the U.S. are good paying and their benefits are stable and properly funded. GM and Ford need a lesson in doing as well IMO.
White Lightening
Blender, I think you have your priorties confused. Nissan, Honda, Hundai and others build vehicles in the U.S. by American workers. Meanwhile my 04 Chevy Silverado was built in Canada by Canadian workers.
Your thinking is that SAAB and Jaguar aren't "foreign" because they are owned by international companies basedin the U.S. (GM and Ford). Chrysler/Dodge isn't owned as an American company.
When you talk about company ownership - GM, Ford, Chrysler, Honda, Toyota, Hundai, etc. etc. etc. are all international automotive manufacturers. Where they create the jobs is the important thing - and their jobs in the U.S. are good paying and their benefits are stable and properly funded. GM and Ford need a lesson in doing as well IMO.
White Lightening
Moppie
10-28-2005, 06:15 AM
When you talk about company ownership - GM, Ford, Chrysler, Honda, Toyota, Hundai, etc. etc. etc. are all international automotive manufacturers. Where they create the jobs is the important thing - and their jobs in the U.S. are good paying and their benefits are stable and properly funded. GM and Ford need a lesson in doing as well IMO.
White Lightening
Thats the only intelligent thing said in this thread.
The rest of the thread is nothing more than hill billy redneck ignorant BS. :nono:
White Lightening
Thats the only intelligent thing said in this thread.
The rest of the thread is nothing more than hill billy redneck ignorant BS. :nono:
BlenderWizard
10-28-2005, 07:56 AM
Thats the only intelligent thing said in this thread.
The rest of the thread is nothing more than hill billy redneck ignorant BS. :nono:
Ok, 1) Go screw yourself
Blender, I think you have your priorties confused. Nissan, Honda, Hundai and others build vehicles in the U.S. by American workers. Meanwhile my 04 Chevy Silverado was built in Canada by Canadian workers.
Your thinking is that SAAB and Jaguar aren't "foreign" because they are owned by international companies basedin the U.S. (GM and Ford). Chrysler/Dodge isn't owned as an American company.
When you talk about company ownership - GM, Ford, Chrysler, Honda, Toyota, Hundai, etc. etc. etc. are all international automotive manufacturers. Where they create the jobs is the important thing - and their jobs in the U.S. are good paying and their benefits are stable and properly funded. GM and Ford need a lesson in doing as well IMO.
White Lightening
and 2) No, not quite what I was going for. While you are correct with what you said about the workers (though our domestic companies, I feel, are in the bind they're in because of the unions), it is not the workers' salaries that I am referring to. I'm talking about the big money. I'm talking about the company's corporate earnings that go back home. In each state that a company operates in, they must register. if they are headquartered in that particular state, they are registered as a domestic company. If they are headquartered in another state, they are registered as a foreign company. Now, if they are from another country, and register in one of our states, that company is registered as an alien entity. The alien companies are the ones I am talking about.
The rest of the thread is nothing more than hill billy redneck ignorant BS. :nono:
Ok, 1) Go screw yourself
Blender, I think you have your priorties confused. Nissan, Honda, Hundai and others build vehicles in the U.S. by American workers. Meanwhile my 04 Chevy Silverado was built in Canada by Canadian workers.
Your thinking is that SAAB and Jaguar aren't "foreign" because they are owned by international companies basedin the U.S. (GM and Ford). Chrysler/Dodge isn't owned as an American company.
When you talk about company ownership - GM, Ford, Chrysler, Honda, Toyota, Hundai, etc. etc. etc. are all international automotive manufacturers. Where they create the jobs is the important thing - and their jobs in the U.S. are good paying and their benefits are stable and properly funded. GM and Ford need a lesson in doing as well IMO.
White Lightening
and 2) No, not quite what I was going for. While you are correct with what you said about the workers (though our domestic companies, I feel, are in the bind they're in because of the unions), it is not the workers' salaries that I am referring to. I'm talking about the big money. I'm talking about the company's corporate earnings that go back home. In each state that a company operates in, they must register. if they are headquartered in that particular state, they are registered as a domestic company. If they are headquartered in another state, they are registered as a foreign company. Now, if they are from another country, and register in one of our states, that company is registered as an alien entity. The alien companies are the ones I am talking about.
twomorestrokes
10-28-2005, 08:43 AM
Thats the only intelligent thing said in this thread.
The rest of the thread is nothing more than hill billy redneck ignorant BS. :nono:
LMAO. Thanks for giving my morning a kick start!
I agree with White Lightning also. At least the American auto worker has somewhere to go to maintain steady, well paying employment when their GM or Ford plant has been closed and their jobs eliminated. I live close to Lansing, MI. and the biggest debate here is what to turn the closed down GM factories into...casinos, hotels, or parks.
I don't believe that GM is in trouble due to the unions. It is due to their own actions like excess spending and quality issues. They could learn a lot if they'd allow themselves to. :2cents:
Blast away...
The rest of the thread is nothing more than hill billy redneck ignorant BS. :nono:
LMAO. Thanks for giving my morning a kick start!
I agree with White Lightning also. At least the American auto worker has somewhere to go to maintain steady, well paying employment when their GM or Ford plant has been closed and their jobs eliminated. I live close to Lansing, MI. and the biggest debate here is what to turn the closed down GM factories into...casinos, hotels, or parks.
I don't believe that GM is in trouble due to the unions. It is due to their own actions like excess spending and quality issues. They could learn a lot if they'd allow themselves to. :2cents:
Blast away...
dr_of_lovephd
10-28-2005, 09:01 AM
One question, would American companies be cutting so many jobs if the consumers bought more american goods?
I mean do we really expect to buy everything we own from Japan, China, etc. and then expect american companies to pay us 20 times what people in some of those countries make?
If no one buys American goods, then we will all be out of a job pretty soon, no matter what profession you are currently employed; or most likely, US companies will have to cut wages across the board to stay competative.
I mean it cost more to make stuff in the US, because of the wages, and so far consumers are not willing to pay more. So companies have made sacrifices in quality, cut jobs, and sent jobs oversees. The question in my mind is, would they have taken these measures if we were a little more loyal and bought more goods made in the US?
I mean do we really expect to buy everything we own from Japan, China, etc. and then expect american companies to pay us 20 times what people in some of those countries make?
If no one buys American goods, then we will all be out of a job pretty soon, no matter what profession you are currently employed; or most likely, US companies will have to cut wages across the board to stay competative.
I mean it cost more to make stuff in the US, because of the wages, and so far consumers are not willing to pay more. So companies have made sacrifices in quality, cut jobs, and sent jobs oversees. The question in my mind is, would they have taken these measures if we were a little more loyal and bought more goods made in the US?
BlenderWizard
10-28-2005, 09:06 AM
It's really a catch 22; you can say no one buys American because the prices are high, and the quality isn't there, but i can say the quality isn't there and the prices are high because no one is buying american. Really, I think the unions had the auto manufacturers backed into a corner; the auto companies really had no choice but to hire union labor with all their crazy wages and benefits, even though they probably knew it would get to the point, like it is now, where they cannot pay the benefits. The union said,"That's what we want." and the manufacturers just had to smile and nod to get them to work for them. What else could they have done? I think the unions really have the auto industry in a chokehold.
twomorestrokes
10-28-2005, 09:17 AM
One question, would American companies be cutting so many jobs if the consumers bought more american goods?
That is a valid question. That's where GM Ford and Chrysler need to step up to the plate and deliver something more for the money I believe. Kind of like the WalMart complaint. Once one moves into your area, the Mom and Pop shops can't stay afloat any longer which is sad. However, the folks complaining about the loss of local business are also seen shopping at WalMart because they get the best deals there.
The ABSOLUTE crappiest vehicle I've ever owned was an '02 Tahoe LT. Couldn't keep it on the road except on the back of a tow truck. Thing stickered new for $49k. What kind of crap is that? I barely spent more for my HOUSE.
While we're on the subject, couldn't GM also keep a little more business here in our own country? They are guilty of the same thing that this thread is complaining about. Their out-sourcing is ridiculous. I've had the dash out and half of the interior apart on our '04 Grand Prix chasing rattles, squeeks and buzzes. It is amazing how many parts are stamped "made in Japan" once you uncover them. They'd rather send their money overseas for lower cost parts, and preach at the same time to "buy American".
That is a valid question. That's where GM Ford and Chrysler need to step up to the plate and deliver something more for the money I believe. Kind of like the WalMart complaint. Once one moves into your area, the Mom and Pop shops can't stay afloat any longer which is sad. However, the folks complaining about the loss of local business are also seen shopping at WalMart because they get the best deals there.
The ABSOLUTE crappiest vehicle I've ever owned was an '02 Tahoe LT. Couldn't keep it on the road except on the back of a tow truck. Thing stickered new for $49k. What kind of crap is that? I barely spent more for my HOUSE.
While we're on the subject, couldn't GM also keep a little more business here in our own country? They are guilty of the same thing that this thread is complaining about. Their out-sourcing is ridiculous. I've had the dash out and half of the interior apart on our '04 Grand Prix chasing rattles, squeeks and buzzes. It is amazing how many parts are stamped "made in Japan" once you uncover them. They'd rather send their money overseas for lower cost parts, and preach at the same time to "buy American".
BlenderWizard
10-28-2005, 09:24 AM
Other than the radio, and some other minor electronics items, I have never ran across anything other than "Made in Canada" or "Made in Mexico" or "Made in USA" in my GM cars. Maybe I'm not looking in the right places, though.
twomorestrokes
10-28-2005, 09:33 AM
The dashboard assembly in the GP says "made in Japan" once you pull the defroster grille off. Similar stampings found elsewhere.
Rollingbones
10-28-2005, 10:03 AM
I do agree that everyone has their hand in everyone else's pocket from country to country. When the Japanese opened up their plants in the US, they came to believe that American workers were the best in the world and worth what they earn!!! They are paying American wages to American workers and dealing with American unions and succeeding.
Now, I believe that inheirently, unions are corrupt and push their own agenda more than the workers needs (my union really sucks and it's a part of the AFL/CIO crime ring). However, we can complain about US auto workers wanting a wage scale comensorate to a decent standard of living, which includes those frivelous benefits such as healthcare and retirement. For crying out loud, we ALL, every single one of us want that. The quality is there, at least in potentia. Any quality expert knows that 80% of failures are not due to human error or equipment failure, but process, pure and simple!!! Process is the bottom line. GM needs to look at GM as does Ford to Ford and Chrysler to Chrysler, not workers wages or unilons, but at their process.
A few years back, W. Edward Deming gave these fine group of Einsteins the quality process which he gave to Japan in the mid-60's which was the foundation that created Japan's quality. The American based companies need to get back tio that quality process. When and if they really do, they'll have no problem competing with the Japanese market, pure and simple!!! For anyone who doesn't know what the proper definition of quality is, it's this: "quality is meeting customer's needs or expectations". No matter how well anything is made...if it doesn't meet the need or expectation of the customer, it's crap!!! The starting point is to discover exactly what those needs and expectations are, because when they're met, we as consumers will pay for it.
Now let's have three amen's and two hallelua's and let's keep those nickels, dimes and quarters coming in!!!
Now, I believe that inheirently, unions are corrupt and push their own agenda more than the workers needs (my union really sucks and it's a part of the AFL/CIO crime ring). However, we can complain about US auto workers wanting a wage scale comensorate to a decent standard of living, which includes those frivelous benefits such as healthcare and retirement. For crying out loud, we ALL, every single one of us want that. The quality is there, at least in potentia. Any quality expert knows that 80% of failures are not due to human error or equipment failure, but process, pure and simple!!! Process is the bottom line. GM needs to look at GM as does Ford to Ford and Chrysler to Chrysler, not workers wages or unilons, but at their process.
A few years back, W. Edward Deming gave these fine group of Einsteins the quality process which he gave to Japan in the mid-60's which was the foundation that created Japan's quality. The American based companies need to get back tio that quality process. When and if they really do, they'll have no problem competing with the Japanese market, pure and simple!!! For anyone who doesn't know what the proper definition of quality is, it's this: "quality is meeting customer's needs or expectations". No matter how well anything is made...if it doesn't meet the need or expectation of the customer, it's crap!!! The starting point is to discover exactly what those needs and expectations are, because when they're met, we as consumers will pay for it.
Now let's have three amen's and two hallelua's and let's keep those nickels, dimes and quarters coming in!!!
misfitt006
10-28-2005, 11:03 AM
amen x3 hallelua x2
BlenderWizard
10-28-2005, 12:09 PM
Personally, I think every person working for an auto company, top to bottom, needs a pay and/or benefit cut. CEO's, CFO's, assembly line workers, etc. all seem to be getting paid too much. I did see that some or all of the higer up's at one of the big 3 (I do not remember which) is taking at least a 40% pay cut. That is what I am talking about. how much do they pay the assembly line workers? $30/hr, $40/hr? If so, it looks like they need to envoke the same 40% pay cut on them.
Rollingbones
10-28-2005, 01:29 PM
I agree with the "uper crust" getting a cut, however, I don't think I'd like my truck to be built by a group of people getting $15.00 and hour and really pissed off about it.
twomorestrokes
10-28-2005, 01:35 PM
I agree with the "uper crust" getting a cut, however, I don't think I'd like my truck to be built by a group of people getting $15.00 and hour and really pissed off about it.
I'm not sure how you'd tell the difference. Right now it's being made by people making $30.00 an hour and really pissed off about it.
I'm not sure how you'd tell the difference. Right now it's being made by people making $30.00 an hour and really pissed off about it.
BlenderWizard
10-28-2005, 01:43 PM
I'm not sure how you'd tell the difference. Right now it's being made by people making $30.00 an hour and really pissed off about it.
Yeah, what the hell? $30 an hour so the can stand there and push buttons? Plus, on top of that, the benefits they get are top notch. I dunno, I only have a High School diploma (though I did go to college and not graduate), and I think that the payrate (using the $30 example) is a little high. Maybe just $5 an hour, though.
Yeah, what the hell? $30 an hour so the can stand there and push buttons? Plus, on top of that, the benefits they get are top notch. I dunno, I only have a High School diploma (though I did go to college and not graduate), and I think that the payrate (using the $30 example) is a little high. Maybe just $5 an hour, though.
Moose is loose
10-28-2005, 07:15 PM
LMAO. Thanks for giving my morning a kick start!
I agree with White Lightning also. At least the American auto worker has somewhere to go to maintain steady, well paying employment when their GM or Ford plant has been closed and their jobs eliminated. I live close to Lansing, MI. and the biggest debate here is what to turn the closed down GM factories into...casinos, hotels, or parks.
I don't believe that GM is in trouble due to the unions. It is due to their own actions like excess spending and quality issues. They could learn a lot if they'd allow themselves to. :2cents:
Blast away...
So true....I own an '04 Silverado, (made in Canada) and an '04 Dodge Cummins (made in Mexico) and I have to say, the quality just isn't the same as the overseas guys. These may well be my last "American" vehicles. At the end of the day you have to ask yourself, what suits my needs? What's the best warranty? What do I LIKE to drive? With Toyota and Nissan soon to release a 3/4 ton Diesel, the choice will be VERY tough for me.
BTW, buy all the "Malibu's" and "Taurus' you want, in 2-3 years at least that Camry will still be worth something.
I agree with White Lightning also. At least the American auto worker has somewhere to go to maintain steady, well paying employment when their GM or Ford plant has been closed and their jobs eliminated. I live close to Lansing, MI. and the biggest debate here is what to turn the closed down GM factories into...casinos, hotels, or parks.
I don't believe that GM is in trouble due to the unions. It is due to their own actions like excess spending and quality issues. They could learn a lot if they'd allow themselves to. :2cents:
Blast away...
So true....I own an '04 Silverado, (made in Canada) and an '04 Dodge Cummins (made in Mexico) and I have to say, the quality just isn't the same as the overseas guys. These may well be my last "American" vehicles. At the end of the day you have to ask yourself, what suits my needs? What's the best warranty? What do I LIKE to drive? With Toyota and Nissan soon to release a 3/4 ton Diesel, the choice will be VERY tough for me.
BTW, buy all the "Malibu's" and "Taurus' you want, in 2-3 years at least that Camry will still be worth something.
BlenderWizard
10-28-2005, 07:46 PM
Do whatever makes you happy, but note (again) the Nissan Titan was "among the 48 least-reliable cars and trucks sold, the survey found."
Moose is loose
10-28-2005, 07:56 PM
"Vehicles that Nissan makes at its new plant in Mississippi — the Quest minivan, Armada SUV, Titan pickup and Infiniti QX56 SUV — are among the 48 least-reliable cars and trucks sold, the survey found".
All made by American's. Does "work ethic" mean anything? Mississippi? I'll leave it at that.....
Ya know what's pathetic? I did a quick NADA query on the value (retail)of the following vehicles:
2002 Silverado Fleetside Ext Cab Z71 4x4, 24,000 miles.
2002 Toyota Tundra ext cab, TRD, 4x4, 24,000 miles.
Both with Aluminum wheels and CD.
Values:
Tundra: $25,400
Silverado: $19,825
?????????????????
All made by American's. Does "work ethic" mean anything? Mississippi? I'll leave it at that.....
Ya know what's pathetic? I did a quick NADA query on the value (retail)of the following vehicles:
2002 Silverado Fleetside Ext Cab Z71 4x4, 24,000 miles.
2002 Toyota Tundra ext cab, TRD, 4x4, 24,000 miles.
Both with Aluminum wheels and CD.
Values:
Tundra: $25,400
Silverado: $19,825
?????????????????
Moppie
10-28-2005, 08:03 PM
The ingorance and bigotry in this thread is amazing.
You do realise that GM only cares where its head quaters are registered when it comes to paying Tax?
Other than that they operate with out any regard for international bourders except where marketing decisions are made, and they tend to base those on cultural types. Hence they refer to the North American Market, and the European Market, or the Asian Market. To them Canada, Mexico and the USA are all the same when it comes to be customers.
Money made in America from selling American car dosnt nessacarly stay in America, where do you think all the money poored into Jaguar by Ford came from?
And just how many of GM and Fords models are made in Mexico? How many of thier smaller cars "compacts for you americans" are made in Japan or Europe becuase they are just rebadged Mazda's or Opels or Toyotas?
Just how much money have Ford and GM invested int he US market Lately?
They still sell you vechiles with Live axles and ladder frame chassis, technology that was outdated in the 1800s and passed from popular use in the rest of the world at the end of the 1970s.
Investment into new plant and manufactoring facilities is occuring in Mexico, South America, Europe, and wait for it, China and Japan. New Design houses are being opened in the UK and Germany and Northern Europe, while the bulk of new platform deisgns come out of Europe and Australia, new bodys to go on top of them, and the enigne used to power them come out of the UK and Northern Europe. Where do you think the heads for the new Corvette engine came from? Because I can tell you they are not American. The Heads came from GM in Germany. Infact the whole enigne design was put together with help from HSV in Australia.
So who is investing in America? Pooring money into its domestic automotive market?
Well would you belive its the Japanese.
Honda, Nissan and Toyota all have American operations that operate with total indpendance from thier Japanese offices.
All 3 have model ranges that were designed in America by Americans, they are built in American Plants by Americans, and they are sold exculisivly to Americans in American owned dealerships. The money to build them came from Japan, but the returns on the invest stay in America to grow thier presance even more.
In Honda's case they were so succesful at it they started exporting cars back to Japan. The EG and EK (1992-2000) Honda Civic Coupe was designed and built in America for the American Market. It was so succesful, and so popular that Honda in Japan, and Honda in Australia decieded they wanted it as well.
As a result cars built completely in America were shipped to Japan and Australia where they sold faster than they could be converted to RHD.
We get them here in New Zealand as used Japanese imports, and stamped in the Firewall is "MADE IN AMERICA".
So stop all this "Buy American" Crap because it is total BS.
Chances are by buying the latest Chevy the money you hand to dealer ends up in Mexica, Japan and Europe.
While the money your neighbor paid for his new Nissan has gone straight back into your local economy.
To put it simply.
The money goes where the investment is.
At the moment Honda, Nissan and Toyota are all investing heavily in the American market.
GM and Ford are investing heavily in the European and Asian markets.
You do realise that GM only cares where its head quaters are registered when it comes to paying Tax?
Other than that they operate with out any regard for international bourders except where marketing decisions are made, and they tend to base those on cultural types. Hence they refer to the North American Market, and the European Market, or the Asian Market. To them Canada, Mexico and the USA are all the same when it comes to be customers.
Money made in America from selling American car dosnt nessacarly stay in America, where do you think all the money poored into Jaguar by Ford came from?
And just how many of GM and Fords models are made in Mexico? How many of thier smaller cars "compacts for you americans" are made in Japan or Europe becuase they are just rebadged Mazda's or Opels or Toyotas?
Just how much money have Ford and GM invested int he US market Lately?
They still sell you vechiles with Live axles and ladder frame chassis, technology that was outdated in the 1800s and passed from popular use in the rest of the world at the end of the 1970s.
Investment into new plant and manufactoring facilities is occuring in Mexico, South America, Europe, and wait for it, China and Japan. New Design houses are being opened in the UK and Germany and Northern Europe, while the bulk of new platform deisgns come out of Europe and Australia, new bodys to go on top of them, and the enigne used to power them come out of the UK and Northern Europe. Where do you think the heads for the new Corvette engine came from? Because I can tell you they are not American. The Heads came from GM in Germany. Infact the whole enigne design was put together with help from HSV in Australia.
So who is investing in America? Pooring money into its domestic automotive market?
Well would you belive its the Japanese.
Honda, Nissan and Toyota all have American operations that operate with total indpendance from thier Japanese offices.
All 3 have model ranges that were designed in America by Americans, they are built in American Plants by Americans, and they are sold exculisivly to Americans in American owned dealerships. The money to build them came from Japan, but the returns on the invest stay in America to grow thier presance even more.
In Honda's case they were so succesful at it they started exporting cars back to Japan. The EG and EK (1992-2000) Honda Civic Coupe was designed and built in America for the American Market. It was so succesful, and so popular that Honda in Japan, and Honda in Australia decieded they wanted it as well.
As a result cars built completely in America were shipped to Japan and Australia where they sold faster than they could be converted to RHD.
We get them here in New Zealand as used Japanese imports, and stamped in the Firewall is "MADE IN AMERICA".
So stop all this "Buy American" Crap because it is total BS.
Chances are by buying the latest Chevy the money you hand to dealer ends up in Mexica, Japan and Europe.
While the money your neighbor paid for his new Nissan has gone straight back into your local economy.
To put it simply.
The money goes where the investment is.
At the moment Honda, Nissan and Toyota are all investing heavily in the American market.
GM and Ford are investing heavily in the European and Asian markets.
nineball481
10-28-2005, 08:15 PM
Really, I think the unions had the auto manufacturers backed into a corner; the auto companies really had no choice but to hire union labor with all their crazy wages and benefits, even though they probably knew it would get to the point, like it is now, where they cannot pay the benefits. The union said,"That's what we want." and the manufacturers just had to smile and nod to get them to work for them. What else could they have done? I think the unions really have the auto industry in a chokehold.
Slightly off topic....
I'm a union electrician. There are two types of unions, skilled and labor. Electrican is skilled whereas UAW (autoworkers) is labor. You can ask just about any skilled union member and they will tell you the same, UAW gives unions a bad name. I don't believe that they get paid too much or that they have too many benefits. However, their pay structure is rediculous. For instance, most overtime is doublepay, holidays are triple and can be pyramided. Most are allowed to work for as long as they can physically stand to be at the factory (wheter they do anything or not).
To give you something to compare to: Our union has a no strike clause, we CAN NOT strike. We keep working until our differences are resolved. Sundays and holidays are our only double time periods and pay can not be pyramided.
FYI: Overtime pay is ment to be a punishment for the employer, not a benefit to the employee. The idea is that if there is enough work to justify overtime, the company should hire someone else at straight time.
The UAW has its place but needs a reality check. Thery're getting it too. Companies are forcing early retirement on their workers and hiring kids out of HS at a 1/3 the cost and hiding them from the union by building many small factories as opposed to one large factory.
This is a complete 180 and is dangerous, the UAW worker will go from having everything to nothing. Hopefully, before it goes too far they can find a happy medium. Oh, don't think that the price of your car will go down once they reduce labor costs. The companies wouldn't be able to increase their profit margin that way....
My point is this. Unions have a great impact on our society and are needed to protect the rights and needs of the worker, every worker, union or otherwise.
Unions, the people that brought you:
"The eight hour workday"
"The Weekend"
"The minimum wage"
I'm off my soapbox, thanks for listening.
Slightly off topic....
I'm a union electrician. There are two types of unions, skilled and labor. Electrican is skilled whereas UAW (autoworkers) is labor. You can ask just about any skilled union member and they will tell you the same, UAW gives unions a bad name. I don't believe that they get paid too much or that they have too many benefits. However, their pay structure is rediculous. For instance, most overtime is doublepay, holidays are triple and can be pyramided. Most are allowed to work for as long as they can physically stand to be at the factory (wheter they do anything or not).
To give you something to compare to: Our union has a no strike clause, we CAN NOT strike. We keep working until our differences are resolved. Sundays and holidays are our only double time periods and pay can not be pyramided.
FYI: Overtime pay is ment to be a punishment for the employer, not a benefit to the employee. The idea is that if there is enough work to justify overtime, the company should hire someone else at straight time.
The UAW has its place but needs a reality check. Thery're getting it too. Companies are forcing early retirement on their workers and hiring kids out of HS at a 1/3 the cost and hiding them from the union by building many small factories as opposed to one large factory.
This is a complete 180 and is dangerous, the UAW worker will go from having everything to nothing. Hopefully, before it goes too far they can find a happy medium. Oh, don't think that the price of your car will go down once they reduce labor costs. The companies wouldn't be able to increase their profit margin that way....
My point is this. Unions have a great impact on our society and are needed to protect the rights and needs of the worker, every worker, union or otherwise.
Unions, the people that brought you:
"The eight hour workday"
"The Weekend"
"The minimum wage"
I'm off my soapbox, thanks for listening.
TexasF355F1
10-28-2005, 08:27 PM
The dashboard assembly in the GP says "made in Japan" once you pull the defroster grille off. Similar stampings found elsewhere.
All "American" made cars are basically Japanese or the like. To be perfectly honest as much as I love my truck, the plastics they put in american cars as opposed to a honda or toyota just doesn't stack up. They are thinner, weaker, and rattles occur a whole lot faster.
The american car makers have been looking at japanese car makers for a long while. Who do you think came up with Ford's: Quality is Job 1 slogan in the '80s? A japanese marketer. I can't remember his name, but I think it was Taguchi.
All "American" made cars are basically Japanese or the like. To be perfectly honest as much as I love my truck, the plastics they put in american cars as opposed to a honda or toyota just doesn't stack up. They are thinner, weaker, and rattles occur a whole lot faster.
The american car makers have been looking at japanese car makers for a long while. Who do you think came up with Ford's: Quality is Job 1 slogan in the '80s? A japanese marketer. I can't remember his name, but I think it was Taguchi.
Moppie
10-28-2005, 10:20 PM
The thread starter tried to delete this thread.
Since they did not state a reason (yes the option is there) and it is a very valuable discussion it has been resurected.
But, it has also been closed, by tring to delete it the thread starter has made it clear they no longer want it to continue.
Since they did not state a reason (yes the option is there) and it is a very valuable discussion it has been resurected.
But, it has also been closed, by tring to delete it the thread starter has made it clear they no longer want it to continue.
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