Solar System Crash

I've always wondered this;

We live on a planet that rotates around a sun with the rest of the planets, everything nicely aligned and what not...the occasional meteor hits us.

Well what about the whole solar system's movement within the universe? (I'm sure i'm not the first to think of this)
Couldn't we all be hurdling through the universe faster than imaginable?
And if so, wouldn't we eventually run into another solar system, crash, and have zero chance to see it coming??
And if so again, why has that not happened?

I believe that the solar system revolves around the milky way every 250 million years. Dunno what that works out to speed wise tho.

Also, there are pictures of galaxies that "are" colliding.

space is pretty vast my friend. Quite a bit more vast tahn you think.

The Solar System has rotated around the Milky Way some 10-15 times already, traveling something like 250 km/s. The Milky Way as a whole galaxy is traveling 300 km/s through the local group of galaxies.

Pretty fucked up, huh?

space is pretty vast my friend. Quite a bit more vast tahn you think.

Well I think of space as being infinite...it's more vast than that?!?!? I didn't think that was possible!

And yea that is pretty fucked up...how did we ever get stats like that?

Space isnt infinite, its still getting larger from the Big Bang

Space isnt infinite, its still getting larger from the Big Bang
Well, theoretically. You can't just say that as fact.

Space isnt infinite, its still getting larger from the Big Bang

That isn't fact.

There are theories on the size of space and if it is expanding or not, but there aren't any proven facts.

The fact is that there is so much "space" between each of the objects in the universe that it is pretty unlikely that we will run into another solar system.

Try this one on for size though; there are universes that are colliding into each other. I can't wait to see what happened as a result of that.

I thought the red light shift proved its expanding?

Expanding? Well if it has room to expand, it's infinite.

I wasn't thinking of space as being the solar systems, galaxies, stars, and crap...just the space they occupy and further out, where there are no stars and whatnot.

Also, where are there pictures of the galaxies colliding?

I thought the red light shift proved its expanding?

While it does support it, it hasn't proven it yet. The size of the universe is still a theory.

Also, where are there pictures of the galaxies colliding?

Here is a good one:

http://faculty.fortlewis.edu/tyler_c/classes/206/gal_collision.jpg

Here is another good example:

http://imgsrc.hubblesite.org/hu/db/2002/09/images/a/formats/web.jpg

There is more than one instance of this happening. In fact in 3 billion year the galaxy Andromeda is predicted to collide with the Milky Way.

Check out www.hubblesite.org the pictures there will blow your mind.

it will happen eventually as all bad things will. meteor striking earth, sun going nova, galaxies colliding. i heard that in a couple thousand years our solar system will be going through a thick part of space and will be bombarded by many small meteors. fun right?

id say its pretty safe to say that the universe is expanding, you cant really argue that it is not. and eventually(theoretically) it will contract again and evrything as we know it will be gone. just another doomsday to look foreward too. i read an articele in discover on how to escape the universe in the event of the universe imploding. pretty neat stuff.

id say its pretty safe to say that the universe is expanding, you cant really argue that it is not. and eventually(theoretically) it will contract again and evrything as we know it will be gone. just another doomsday to look foreward too. i read an articele in discover on how to escape the universe in the event of the universe imploding. pretty neat stuff.

See, that is just another theory. Some say it will just keep expanding. Some say it will expand, then contract, and then big bang again. There are a few different theories on the expansion of the universe. I'll look them up when I get home.

Space isnt infinite, its still getting larger from the Big Bang

The infinite nature of space is not negated by the fact that it is expanding.

There are theories on the size of space and if it is expanding or not, but there aren't any proven facts.

Really?

While it does support it [red shift], it hasn't proven it yet. The size of the universe is still a theory.

A theory always remains a theory. It never becomes a law, these are two different concepts. A law simply states what happens, while a theory explains why something happens.

Einstein’s Theory of General Relativity is perhaps “the most exhaustively tested and best proven principle in all of physics.” The Theory of General Relativity predicts the expansion of the universe. As GForce957 mentioned, the red shift is one of the very strong indicators proving the validity of this theory. Stating that the universe is not expanding, implies that the Theory of General Relativity is incorrect.

…and eventually(theoretically) it will contract again and evrything as we know it will be gone…

In order for the universe to collapse, it must contain a certain critical mass, or critical density. Recent calculations, including dark matter, have shown that the mass of the universe does not come close to the proposed criteria. Evidence shows the universe will continue to infinitely expand at a decreasing rate.

A theory always remains a theory. It never becomes a law, these are two different concepts. A law simply states what happens, while a theory explains why something happens.

Einstein’s Theory of General Relativity is perhaps “the most exhaustively tested and best proven principle in all of physics.” The Theory of General Relativity predicts the expansion of the universe. As GForce957 mentioned, the red shift is one of the very strong indicators proving the validity of this theory. Stating that the universe is not expanding, implies that the Theory of General Relativity is incorrect.

Well, in science we can never say that we are 100% sure of anything so I can see what you're saying here and I agree with you. My point was more towards whether or not the universe is infinite or finite. It is pretty evident that the universe is expanding. I was just saying that it was proven; I didn't say I didn't agree with it.

Well, im gonna go ahead and not worry or think about it, because:

a) I won't be around for anything to happen.
b) my brain hurts just thinking about how small I am when I look at those pics...it's just like "wtf do i matter?"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v252/eversio11/gal_collision_owned.jpg

:lol:

On a more serious note, imagine what the sky must look like to a planet right in the middle of the collision.

I had a preteen moment when I saw this on hubbles site





This week's image:
Hubble Finds Many Bright Clouds on Uranus


:lol2:

Hehehe, nice one, Yogs.


Put a softball in Washington, DC. Put a marble in Johannesburg, South Africa. That's how much space there is, just between the sun and the Earth.

Hell, the next closest star is nearly four light-days away.

Hell, the next closest star is nearly four light-days away.

its 4 light years. Alpha Centauri System.

Hehehe, nice one, Yogs.


Put a softball in Washington, DC. Put a marble in Johannesburg, South Africa. That's how much space there is, just between the sun and the Earth.

I believe this works out to 8 minutes for light to reach earth

Close enough for government work I think. :icon16:

its 4 light years. Alpha Centauri System.

Whoops, I don't know why I said days. You're right it's years.

lol 4 light days. yea the sun is about 8 light minutes.

So the sun could be blown up right now and we wouldn't see it for 8 minutes??

That's it, sport.

So the sun could be blown up right now and we wouldn't see it for 8 minutes??
Yeah, the same principles apply to all the stars. Some of the stars we see today could have burned out thousands of years ago, but we're still receiving the light from it because it takes so long for light to travel that long of a distance.

Yeah, the same principles apply to all the stars. Some of the stars we see today could have burned out thousands of years ago, but we're still receiving the light from it because it takes so long for light to travel that long of a distance.

Exactly, that's why as you view more distand objects, you are actually looking back in time.

Woahhhh mannnn, lookin back in time...that's deep!! lol I feel like a hippie. So those colliding solar systems could have already collided and the ensuing black hole could be sucking in the universe as we speak?!

glad I live 1000's of years away.

Yeah, the same principles apply to all the stars. Some of the stars we see today could have burned out thousands of years ago, but we're still receiving the light from it because it takes so long for light to travel that long of a distance.

Yeah, it's funny how a lot of people don't know that when you look into the night sky you aren't viewing something live. What you're seeing happened thousands and even millions of years ago or more.

that is crazy to think about....can't even get that thought into perspective.....so those images...how many light years away are they?

Woahhhh mannnn, lookin back in time...that's deep!! lol I feel like a hippie. So those colliding solar systems could have already collided and the ensuing black hole could be sucking in the universe as we speak?!

glad I live 1000's of years away.

Haha thats something funny to think about. "Oh yeah, the freaking systems crashed into each other a day ago, causing a black hole, but you know since we're pretty far away we still got 1000 years to think of something"

a lot of people dont realize that a lot of starts that looks like 1 are actually billions close together...

nothing is actually "proven" in science, we just asume its correct by what we find and recreate....

and also, there is no way to tell how fast we are moving... we only say how fast we are moving in reference to something else but whose to say what is standing still?...

and also, there is no way to tell how fast we are moving... we only say how fast we are moving in reference to something else but whose to say what is standing still?...

That statement seems a bit illogical to me. You cannot determine an object's speed without reference to another object. A car travels at 70mph relative to the earth's surface. The earth's orbital speed is approximately 18.5 miles per second. The sun resides in a spiral arm of the Milky Galaxy which is rotating, and the entire Galaxy itself is also moving. It's all about relativity.

They can measure speeds, distances, sizes and masses in space by chemical compounds (the color the star burns), the relative and magnitutde of a light to determine the distance and size. They use these facts to compare against other stars as well as observation time needed for the light to come into the telescope. Average picture you see from hubble is like weeks-months of elapsed single-photo time just collecting photons of light.

As far as the universe expanding. Light acts as a particle and a wave, so light is our basis for distance at the moment for 'size of the universe'. So take the source of the big-bang. Go 13 billion light years each direction = size of current universe + 186,xxx miles/sec growing in each direction.

The nearest start is 4.3 light years away, beyond that is 11 light years away.

4.3 light years = 5,869,713,600,000 miles away. Our 'fastest' speed is about 30,000 miles per hour, sling-shotting around the earth and sun a few times.

:)
(< - Undergrad astrophysics major)

They can measure speeds, distances, sizes and masses in space by chemical compounds (the color the star burns), the relative and magnitutde of a light to determine the distance and size. They use these facts to compare against other stars as well as observation time needed for the light to come into the telescope. Average picture you see from hubble is like weeks-months of elapsed single-photo time just collecting photons of light.

As far as the universe expanding. Light acts as a particle and a wave, so light is our basis for distance at the moment for 'size of the universe'. So take the source of the big-bang. Go 13 billion light years each direction = size of current universe + 186,xxx miles/sec growing in each direction.

The nearest start is 4.3 light years away, beyond that is 11 light years away.

4.3 light years = 5,869,713,600,000 miles away. Our 'fastest' speed is about 30,000 miles per hour, sling-shotting around the earth and sun a few times.

:)
(< - Undergrad astrophysics major)


Sweet, i knew all that and i just have a large interest in space. Maybe i should try out for NASA, they've been making the playoffs for the past few years, and are supposed to win it all this season.

You need atleast one Ph.D in Math or Physics. If you have both you'll have a better shot. I'm going for a Ph.D. in physics.

oh sure, kill my dreams of stardom.

Haha oh man, stardom!

I rule like Napoleon son

I just found this and thought it was pretty cool. It shows just how spread just our own solar system is. This site show our solar system to scale.

Our solar system to scale. (http://www.troybrophy.com/projects/solarsystem/index.html)

That statement seems a bit illogical to me. You cannot determine an object's speed without reference to another object. A car travels at 70mph relative to the earth's surface. The earth's orbital speed is approximately 18.5 miles per second. The sun resides in a spiral arm of the Milky Galaxy which is rotating, and the entire Galaxy itself is also moving. It's all about relativity.

you must have misread my post or something because thats what i said... "whos to say what is standing still"... there isnt a way to tell how fast anything is moving or if it is moving at all

i mean, it is possible that our universe is standing still, and that everything else is spinning arround us making it apear that we are spinning, though unlikely, just something to think about

if you were in space, and there wasn't anything arround you, except for 1 planet, or just a rock and you were both moving at 1000mph in the same direction.. it would appear that you werent moving at all, and there would be no windspeed or resistance hinting that you are moving...

of course, relative to light, nothing moves faster than anything else

you must have misread my post or something because thats what i said... "whos to say what is standing still"... there isnt a way to tell how fast anything is moving or if it is moving at all

i mean, it is possible that our universe is standing still, and that everything else is spinning arround us making it apear that we are spinning, though unlikely, just something to think about

if you were in space, and there wasn't anything arround you, except for 1 planet, or just a rock and you were both moving at 1000mph in the same direction.. it would appear that you werent moving at all, and there would be no windspeed or resistance hinting that you are moving...

of course, relative to light, nothing moves faster than anything else

1: We are moving its been proven. The universe as a complete whole may be stationary but very double because the fact of its expanding infers movement.

2: Thigns spinning around us? You born in the 1300's? The world still flat to you? We are in an orbit, we spin, we move (as an planet around a star in a celestial body.)

3: In space there is always something around you. Dust, debris, hydrogen reminents. Stars may be far away but you can still use them to find a place of being. And even if you were moving at 100,000mph with something else same direction you'd still see other objects change because of your placement in the universe. You don't need 'windspeed' or 'resistance because you use stars as reference.

Relative to light nothing most faster then anything else -- Wrong.

1: A comet going 400,000mph is more noticeable then a comet going 10,000mph.

2: When you are traveling at the speed of light, all things appear to happen very slowly. So a faster object would be more noticeable then a slower object. :)

Woahhhh mannnn, lookin back in time...that's deep!! lol I feel like a hippie. So those colliding solar systems could have already collided and the ensuing black hole could be sucking in the universe as we speak?!


I don't believe a collision of solar systems would cause a black hole. They are formed from stars or other large masses that collapse from their own gravity, which could form an object with infinite density. When the star eventually collapses after exhausting all of its nuclear fuel, factors such as: the rate it collapses at, how far it collapses, what object it turns into are all determined by the final mass of the star and how much outward pressure remains from the nuclear fuel. If the mass is compressible or sufficiently large, it can collapse into a black hole. If its mass is insufficient to form a black hole, it usually becomes a neutron star or a white dwarf.

I don't believe a collision of solar systems would cause a black hole. They are formed from stars or other large masses that collapse from their own gravity, which could form an object with infinite density. When the star eventually collapses after exhausting all of its nuclear fuel, factors such as: the rate it collapses at, how far it collapses, what object it turns into are all determined by the final mass of the star and how much outward pressure remains from the nuclear fuel. If the mass is compressible or sufficiently large, it can collapse into a black hole. If its mass is insufficient to form a black hole, it usually becomes a neutron star or a white dwarf.


They don't form their own gravity, rather, the gravitational force gets more concentrated. If our sun were to collapse into a black hole (impossible, but bear with me) and let's say it didnt take out the earth in the proccess, the earth would hold the same orbit around the black hole, more or less (accounting for some of the mass being nova'd into deep space). And if you were in orbit around the singularity at the same distance of the radius of the former star, the gravitational force would be the same as if you were standing atop the star when it was still a big thing.
*edit* and that's why you don't have to worry aobut black holes 'sucking' the universe into oblivion.

Cool thing about neutron stars is that if they're reeeeally close to the Chandresekar limit, then if enough material (space debris, whatnot) falls into it, it can still collapse into a black hole!

And if you were in orbit around the singularity at the same distance of the radius of the former star, the gravitational force would be the same as if you were standing atop the star when it was still a big thing.
*edit* and that's why you don't have to worry aobut black holes 'sucking' the universe into oblivion.


What word are you thinking for singularity? A singularity is the center poitn of a Blackhole where all things are condensed into one infiniity dense point of space and time.

Cool thing about neutron stars is that if they're reeeeally close to the Chandresekar limit, then if enough material (space debris, whatnot) falls into it, it can still collapse into a black hole!

Is the Chandresekar limit the limit of what turns into a black hole? Interesting thing about the neutron stars, i didnt know that. Does science know of any that have done so?

Theoretically plausible. Anything that has a large enough mass to collect matter can plausibly continue to collect enough matter to where it is dense enough that it collapses into a black hole.

Is the Chandresekar limit the limit of what turns into a black hole? Interesting thing about the neutron stars, i didnt know that. Does science know of any that have done so?

Well black holes themselves are still theories technically. What i was talking aobut is just another theory to add, which is mathematically correct. Yes the Chandrasekhar limit is the mass of a white dwarf where it can no longer be a white dwarf and collapses into a neutron star. 1.4 times the mass of our sun i believe. Then after that is the Oppenheimer-Volkoff limit (~2-3 times the mass of our sun) that the neutron star collapses into a black hole. Sorry i had to edit..it's been a while ;)

Xeno: I'm pretty sure i mean the singularity. Basically where the gravitational force of the black hole is concentrated. No different than the gravitational force of an object, since it's treated as a single point in physics, but when it actaully IS a single mathematical point is where stuff gets crazy. WEll i guess the crazy stuff really starts once you pass the event horizon, but you wouldn't live too long to experience it too much. My astrophysics may be a little rusty though, i haven't done much reading aobut it recently.

If you were the distance from the sun-earth you'd be pulled in faster vs regular sun gravity since b-hole is stronger. Closer you are the faster the orbit will wind into the blackhole. But yes there is a distance where you'll not be affected by the immense gravity.

I understand what you mean now you just phrased it strangely :P

If you were the distance from the sun-earth you'd be pulled in faster vs regular sun gravity since b-hole is stronger. Closer you are the faster the orbit will wind into the blackhole. But yes there is a distance where you'll not be affected by the immense gravity.

I understand what you mean now you just phrased it strangely :P

no, you would NOT be pulled in any faster, that's what I'm trying to say. The gravitational force of the star-turned-black hole has not increased. Rather it has become more concentrated. The force of gravity will still decline as the inverse square of the distance. Everything regarding orbital paths and whatnot would remain relatively unchanged. It's after you pass the event horizon is when you're screwed.

no, you would NOT be pulled in any faster, that's what I'm trying to say. The gravitational force of the star-turned-black hole has not increased. Rather it has become more concentrated. The force of gravity will still decline as the inverse square of the distance. Everything regarding orbital paths and whatnot would remain relatively unchanged. It's after you pass the event horizon is when you're screwed.
Yeah, theoretically if you're just a meter away from event horizon and you have enough velocity, you can escape a black hole.

Yeah, theoretically if you're just a meter away from event horizon and you have enough velocity, you can escape a black hole.

yeah... you'd pretty much need to be going like 99.9% of the speed of light if you were that close, but still mathematically possible.

yeah... you'd pretty much need to be going like 99.9% of the speed of light if you were that close, but still mathematically possible.
Yeah, but 99.9% of the speed of light isn't that implausible. Things don't start to get REALLY weird until something like 99.9999% the speed of light.

Yeah, but 99.9% of the speed of light isn't that implausible. Things don't start to get REALLY weird until something like 99.9999% the speed of light.
trust me when i say. 99% of the speed of light, shit gets crazy for anything that has a mass.

WOAH, Back up! Let me back in this thread please lol...I need some definitions if you gentlemen don't mind:

Event Horizon -
White Dwarf -
Neutron Star -
The difference between 99% and 99.9999%?

Please and Thank You.

WOAH, Back up! Let me back in this thread please lol...I need some definitions if you gentlemen don't mind:

Event Horizon -
White Dwarf -
Neutron Star -
The difference between 99% and 99.9999%?

Please and Thank You.

Event Horizon - The hypothetical/theoretical 'sphere/edge' around the black whole where once you pass it not even light can escape. Basically the last point of escape from a black hole. Before it you can plausible leave, after it, bye. :(

White dwarf & neautron star = same thing - The reminents of a star that is less then 4x the size of our sun where the explosion blasted away the protons of the center of the sun's hydrogen/helium atoms and the gravity is so dense the neutrons are literally right next to eachother. Its the 2nd densest thing in the universe. 1 teaspon = 1,000,000,000 tons of weight. They are very small, 10-100 miles in diameter and spin at 300-10,000 revolution per Second.

Anything close to the speed of light then mass becomes distored and basically stretched out. Theoretically if you were to goto the speed of light you'd die cause your body would be stretched almost infinityly thin. (Same thing happens when you go into a blackhole, but time also stops too)

hope that answered your question

And you still orbit into the blackhole you arn't stationary. We move a bit closer to the sun with each moment. Very smalll amounts but we do cause its gravity.

hmm...I don't see why at the speed of light I would start to stretch out...if there's no wind resistance, or gravitational pull couldn't I just go infinitely faster without a problem? There wouldn't be another force pulling against the increase of speed to "stretch" me. Correct me if i'm wrong b/c i'm not educated on this.


So about us moving closer to the Sun...does that mean that eventually all the planets will be "sucked" into the Sun? That would make sense to me, b/c I don't understand how things stay in orbit without a constant force pushing them away from what's drawing them in.