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Head gasket problem???


shaffera
10-22-2005, 12:14 PM
I have a 95 escort 1.9L with 160,000 miles. Over the last couple of months I have been loosing antifreeze. Every couple of weeks my check coolant light comes on. At first I just refilled the resivoir, then I did a radiator flush and fill with bars stop leak. All this time I wasn't seeing a leak anywhere. I park in a paved parking lot and I looked from time to time but no puddles no drips no signs anywhere. Started talking to a few friends and the said it was a possible head gasket issue and gave me the basics to check. My oil doesn't look milky I checked the cap and the dipstick, my exhaust is white during start up but then goes away after the car warms up a couple of times there has been a slight hint of anitfreeze. I am going to do a compression check on monday(but some people have told me that won't always show me a bad head gasket). I am also going to drain some oil into a clear container to see if it looks milky. I have been under, over and inside the engine about 10 times in the last couple of weeks looking for leaks and I can't find one. Any suggestions, advice, information would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Alan

Arnoldtheskier
10-22-2005, 04:35 PM
"White" or whiteish exhaust..going to an almost steamy color..is a pretty sure sign of a crack in the head/block/gasket.There are almost no other conditions that do this.Add to the fact that "Bar's Leaks" fixed the leak.
Clean oil/cap simply means that the leak was getting to the combustion chamber..and burning AFTER there was no way it could get into the oil.
True..a compression check won't always show a head gasket..BUT! if one cylinder is down..suspect it.If two adjacent cylinders are down.Pretty sure it is a head gasket.
Draining the oil won't neccssarily show a head gasket leak even if you do find a/f in it.
Ya..I would do the compression check first.Sounds like you can do this.IF that doesn't lead you to the headgasket.Then you will have to do a cooling system pressure check.This is a simple test done at a garage or rad shop.You can probablly borrow/buy not too expensive or make something up to do it.IF you still can't find it there may be a hairline crack in the head somewhere..that opens AND closes under certain conditions.That can be next to impossible to find.OR some sort of coolant leak into the intake OR exhaust system that is so small it will be VERY hard to find.
Sometimes old cars if the problem isn't getting worse..don't run them hard and leave well enough alone.Ya..nothing like "thinking" it might/or is the head gasket..going through all that..then finding out the problem is still there.Sometimes old cars can seemingly run forever like this..bit of Bar's Leaks now and again....
Do the compression test and if neccssary the pressure test and let us know...

AzTumbleweed
10-22-2005, 04:52 PM
Remove the radiator cap. Start the engine and warm it up to operating temp. With a bad head gasket or cracked head you may see small bubbles coming up in the radiator filler neck. These bubbles are compression from the cylinder that has the leak. Also a good shop has a kit that tests for carbon monoxide in the coolant. This will confirm it. A cheap way to do a leak test is disconnect the cooling fan. Let the engine idle until it gets up close to the red zone then take a look. If you have a leak you may see it because the pressure will be so high that it will stop leaking. Also pull the plugs and see if one is wet. If the head gasket is broke between and a coolant and an oil passage then it will not affect compression but you will have A/F in your oil. You can check for this by pulling the dip stick and looking. Shouldn't have to drain oil. My guess is there is a small leak in a hose that only shows up when the engine is hot. I hope so anyway. Will be a lot cheaper.

shaffera
10-22-2005, 06:30 PM
Thanks for all of the information. Follow up questions hope I am not waisting anyone's time. If the head is cracked, then what, bottom line buy a new head or one from the junk yard?
If I had wet plugs wouldn't that also give me misfires, starting issues and pretty much really crappy driving?
If I do have a cracked head and not just a head gasket that should show up in an overall compression check, correct?
Yeah I am still praying for the small leak in a hose to show itself but I don't think it will happen. Thanks for your time.
Alan

AzTumbleweed
10-22-2005, 08:48 PM
If you, in fact, have antifreeze coming out the tail pipe then there's a chance that a plug could be damp. As far as compression goes it depends where the crack is. If it's between a water jacket and exhaust port then you will have good compression but will have antifreeze in your exhaust. If it is between your clylinder wall and water jacket then compression will go into your cooling system. This usually results in overheating because the compression will push coolant out the overflow on your reservoir. I hope you just have a hose leaking :smile:

Arnoldtheskier
10-22-2005, 09:39 PM
The looking for bubbles in the rad can be a good idea..it is MUCH! more accurate when the engine is newer.As engines/cars age there are numerous ways of getting bubbles in the rad.I THINK I have been fooled by ALL of them so far..LOL.. I no longer even bother to look in the rad.
I look for the most obivious,simplest things first now.What it usually is..often based on others and past experiences.
USUALLY whitish smoke out the tailpipe is a head gasket caused by overheating..OR a cracked head.You don't often get off cheap when you see the smoke.
I go for a compression test first..this usually shows it and then a pressure test..this often confirms it.Once confirmed with the engine warm..not hot I will pressurize it again..pull the spark plug and try and zero in on the exact cause before I take it apart.If I can(usually) I yank off the exhaust manifold(you're gonna have to pull it anyway later..why not do it now and get a better look if you can) and again pressurize it..and crank the engine over by hand and take another good look.If it serious enough I will leave the pressure tester on..under pressure..keep an eye on it and keep it pressurized then pull all the plugs,remote starter it and see which cylinder spews out the green.I made up a pressure tester that I put in-line in the heater hose.
The idea of getting the engine hot and then looking for leaks is a good old trick too..sure..get it hot..pull the plugs..remote crank or have help...look for the green.I just don't like being around hot..especially cooling systems under pressure hot engines no more.
Rad shop co check is good too..this nails down combustion leaks into the cooling system.Ditto for the dye and the light thinggy..LOL..these tests things cost money..
If the head is cracked.It is junk.Ditto if it is badly warped.Junk yard heads are good..deal with a REPUTABLE! yard and they keep a good eye on stuff coming in and test it.Of course this is a premium price.There are ALSO great deals in reputable yards where they honestlly don't know the condition and tell you so.Take your chances with the work.ANY half decent bone yard offers a warranty if the head is no good or goes south quick.Rebuilt heads are best.Ya..BEST by the best and most expensive rebuilders.The other rebuilders..I'd rather go with a good boneyard head.

AHhhh..just do a few tests..get a good idea of what it is..leave it..drive it..keep a jug of coolant and a LARGE(the size for trucks) bottle or two of Bar's Leaks on hand.Don't run it too hard or overheat it.Doesn't sound that it is leaking that bad right now after the Bar's..

If you're gonna tear into this do your homwork..do the tests' AZ and I have mentioned.Check engine vacuum etc..spray around/re-torque/check VERY carefully around the intake manifold..ya don wanna be rippin' this apart and finding no problem..except for it SUCKING in coolant here.
Probablly a few things I have missed/forgotten..
Good luck..

shaffera
10-24-2005, 08:59 AM
First thing this morning started with the bubble test. Did exactly as AZ said but anti freeze just kept bubbling and splashing out of the radiator. Paused to take kids to school, doing compression next.

shaffera
10-24-2005, 10:03 AM
compression test results
#1 175
#2 170
#3 150
#4 180
The book say I am allowed 20% difference between cylinders and that compression should be between 164 and 200psi. The compression gauge instructions say I should be within 10%.

jeffescortlx
10-24-2005, 05:13 PM
There is one other way you can loose coolent internally with out bad compression showing. The intake manifold gasket also seals off a coolent passage, if the gasket is bad, the motor can suck coolent in with the air. There wont be any drips on the ground, and the compression check will come out ok.

shaffera
10-24-2005, 09:02 PM
Hmm that's interesting, I have talked to a couple of friends and they have told me the bubble test was a good sign the head gasket is bad. So I am in the process of replacing it now. I am thinking of pulling the head and taking it to a machine shop while it is out. I will probaly inspect and maybe just replace the intake manifold while I have it off. I only got about an hour into the job before the rain from Wilma got in my way. Supposed to clear up tomorrow so I will start early. Can't wait to build my garage/game room, couple more years.

shaffera
10-26-2005, 12:58 PM
Now I wish it was only a head gasket. Pulled the head yesterday and it is cracked in 2 places. The cracks were pretty obvious once i got the head cleaned up a bit. I am looking for a rebuilt on online now. I have seen some that come with upgraded valve/valve seats(to eliminate the problem with the valve seats dropping). They all seem to be about $225-$275 most with a 1 year warranty. Any thoughts?

jeffescortlx
10-26-2005, 04:09 PM
Do you have any "U-Pull" junk yards around you?
They usally go for around $30-50 at my local yard.
Just look for a Escort that was crashed, chances are the motor is good. They usally come with a 30 day warranty.

shaffera
10-26-2005, 06:13 PM
I do have a junk yard about and hour away. One of my friends who frequents the salvage yard said it would be about $50 for a head. Machine shop $100 to pressure test and check for trueness. So $150 I have a used cylinder head oh yeah I have to get it and pull it 5 hours to go down there and pull it and get back(if I am lucky). So for for another $100 I can get new upgraded valves and valve seats rebuilt cylinder head already and pressure tested. Sounded like the way to go for me.

Arnoldtheskier
10-26-2005, 10:57 PM
Seein' as how you've already decided to do the rebuilt head routine.Either you know what "upgraded" seats are and how to identify them OR make CRYSTAL CLEAR to the rebuilder that you are getting what you want/need..AND either you know or trust who you are dealing with.The last time I was rooting around doin' the routine you are doing..it SURE helped that I used to work as an automotive machinist.SOoo..I was phoning/emailing /Ebay etc.,etc., Some of these bozos idea of "upgraded" seats..meant that they..sort of "re-furbished" them.. ground the seats. I have ground lot's of seats..never actually ground a "powderred seat" like an Escort.I imagine the hardening wouldn't go very deep on these.And once ground wouldn't last very long.(Like they do in a lot of cast iron heads with the seats as part of the head.)Others.."thoroughlly inspected them and " touched them up". "Upgraded"..should mean ALL NEW SEATS AND ALL NEW VALVES.
Also beware of the cam deal..some of these heads come..you put your old cam back in.Some are ready for the new cam..some have the cam in them.
Best way to buy the gasket kit and bolts is with the head.
If you buy a gasket kit..buy the one that includes the new bolts that you need.IF you just buy the gasket kit seperately..then you have to buy the bolts seperately too..this will cost a lot more.

shaffera
10-27-2005, 07:56 AM
Thanks for the great information arnold I will definetly do more home work. Just to clarify what you were saying about the Cam. You are saying I should put my cam back or use the one that comes with it? As far as the kit goes, I already bought it and it has the gasket and head bolts.

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