steering wheel clicking....99 gp se
radeck
10-21-2005, 12:12 PM
Recently I have this clicking on my steering wheel when I'm making a turn. It's actually pretty loud and really scary especially when I'm breaking at the same time. Anybody knows what that is and how to fix it???
richtazz
10-21-2005, 01:27 PM
There is a known issue with the lower pinion bearings on Grand Prix rack and pinions. There was a recall involving this issue and your car may be covered. Call your area GM dealer with your vin and see, otherwise, get the car to a repair shop and have it looked at, as you're bound for an accident if it fails completely.
radeck
10-21-2005, 03:52 PM
Do I really have to replace rack and pinion, is there any way I can fix it? It started just after I replaced wheel hub, maybe during installation of new hub I somehow damaged steering??? Any ideas?
BNaylor
10-21-2005, 03:57 PM
Do I really have to replace rack and pinion, is there any way I can fix it? It started just after I replaced wheel hub, maybe during installation of new hub I somehow damaged steering??? Any ideas?
I'd say your steering may be OK since you just changed the hub. It sounds like the CV joint to me. Especially with the clicking sound on a hard turn. How did you torque the axle nut and how many ft-lbs?
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM, SLP Headers,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, 2.5 DP/Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 72mm TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 103,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
1/4 ET: 13.210 sec. @ 104.490 mph
0 - 60 ft: 1.945 sec.
I'd say your steering may be OK since you just changed the hub. It sounds like the CV joint to me. Especially with the clicking sound on a hard turn. How did you torque the axle nut and how many ft-lbs?
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM, SLP Headers,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, 2.5 DP/Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 72mm TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 103,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
1/4 ET: 13.210 sec. @ 104.490 mph
0 - 60 ft: 1.945 sec.
radeck
10-21-2005, 04:25 PM
[QUOTE=bnaylor3400]I'd say your steering may be OK since you just changed the hub. It sounds like the CV joint to me. Especially with the clicking sound on a hard turn. How did you torque the axle nut and how many ft-lbs?
Axle nut according to Chilton manual should be 150 ft lbs. I did 160 ft lbs. Besides that my steering wheel is shaking while driving 60 - 65mph. You're aying I could damage CV joint while taking off axle nut??
Axle nut according to Chilton manual should be 150 ft lbs. I did 160 ft lbs. Besides that my steering wheel is shaking while driving 60 - 65mph. You're aying I could damage CV joint while taking off axle nut??
richtazz
10-21-2005, 04:37 PM
If you used an impact wrench on the axle nut, you damaged the new hub, and that's where your click is coming from. Also check the instructions that came with your hub, as changes in bearing design can necessitate a new axle nut torque spec. Follow the torque spec included with the new hub if it differs from the repair manual spec. The aftermarket hubs we carry where I work (PTC), specify a torque of 180ft/lbs, just for reference
BNaylor
10-21-2005, 04:43 PM
Axle nut according to Chilton manual should be 150 ft lbs. I did 160 ft lbs. Besides that my steering wheel is shaking while driving 60 - 65mph. You're aying I could damage CV joint while taking off axle nut??
The torque values in Chlitons and the GM service manual are similar at 151 ft-lbs for OEM. However, what brand hub and bearings did you install. The manufacturer of the hub is supposed to provide the new torque value. I've seen em as high as 180 ft-lbs.
Next, simply taking off an axle nut should not cause your problem, however, changing a complete hub could and it sounds like you are getting side effects or an exacerbation of maybe a part that was worn out. How many miles were on your GP? Remember the axle/spindle is connected to the axle half shaft via the CV joint.
The question you have to ask yourself is did you have that problem (noise) before replacing the hub?
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM, SLP Headers,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, 2.5 DP/Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 72mm TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 103,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
1/4 ET: 13.210 sec. @ 104.490 mph
0 - 60 ft: 1.945 sec.
The torque values in Chlitons and the GM service manual are similar at 151 ft-lbs for OEM. However, what brand hub and bearings did you install. The manufacturer of the hub is supposed to provide the new torque value. I've seen em as high as 180 ft-lbs.
Next, simply taking off an axle nut should not cause your problem, however, changing a complete hub could and it sounds like you are getting side effects or an exacerbation of maybe a part that was worn out. How many miles were on your GP? Remember the axle/spindle is connected to the axle half shaft via the CV joint.
The question you have to ask yourself is did you have that problem (noise) before replacing the hub?
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM, SLP Headers,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, 2.5 DP/Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 72mm TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 103,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
1/4 ET: 13.210 sec. @ 104.490 mph
0 - 60 ft: 1.945 sec.
radeck
10-21-2005, 04:53 PM
If you used an impact wrench on the axle nut, you damaged the new hub, and that's where your click is coming from. Also check the instructions that came with your hub, as changes in bearing design can necessitate a new axle nut torque spec. Follow the torque spec included with the new hub if it differs from the repair manual spec. The aftermarket hubs we carry where I work (PTC), specify a torque of 180ft/lbs, just for reference
There was no instruction with my hub. But I didn't use impact wrench, I used torque wrench. First I replaced right one, after that my steering wheel started shaking at cartain speed (60-65mph). I took my car to the shop, they told me my left bearing needed to be replaced too. So I did it. And now my steering wheel not only shakes but also clicks especially while while turning with low speed.
There was no instruction with my hub. But I didn't use impact wrench, I used torque wrench. First I replaced right one, after that my steering wheel started shaking at cartain speed (60-65mph). I took my car to the shop, they told me my left bearing needed to be replaced too. So I did it. And now my steering wheel not only shakes but also clicks especially while while turning with low speed.
BNaylor
10-21-2005, 04:58 PM
If you used an impact wrench on the axle nut, you damaged the new hub, and that's where your click is coming from. Also check the instructions that came with your hub, as changes in bearing design can necessitate a new axle nut torque spec. Follow the torque spec included with the new hub if it differs from the repair manual spec. The aftermarket hubs we carry where I work (PTC), specify a torque of 180ft/lbs, just for reference
Hey sorry Rich. Didn't know you had this covered. No need for redundancy. Carry on.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM, SLP Headers,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, 2.5 DP/Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 72mm TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 103,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
1/4 ET: 13.210 sec. @ 104.490 mph
0 - 60 ft: 1.945 sec.
Hey sorry Rich. Didn't know you had this covered. No need for redundancy. Carry on.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM, SLP Headers,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, 2.5 DP/Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 72mm TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 103,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
1/4 ET: 13.210 sec. @ 104.490 mph
0 - 60 ft: 1.945 sec.
radeck
10-21-2005, 05:04 PM
[QUOTE=bnaylor3400]The torque values in Chlitons and the GM service manual are similar at 151 ft-lbs for OEM. However, what brand hub and bearings did you install. The manufacturer of the hub is supposed to provide the new torque value. I've seen em as high as 180 ft-lbs.
Next, simply taking off an axle nut should not cause your problem, however, changing a complete hub could and it sounds like you are getting side effects or an exacerbation of maybe a part that was worn out. How many miles were on your GP? Remember the axle/spindle is connected to the axle half shaft via the CV joint.
The question you have to ask yourself is did you have that problem (noise) before replacing the hub?
There is already 142000 miles on this car. There was no noise before. I replaced the hub (right one) just because of speed sensor (my ABS was't working). If it's CV joint, what do you have to do to damage it?
Next, simply taking off an axle nut should not cause your problem, however, changing a complete hub could and it sounds like you are getting side effects or an exacerbation of maybe a part that was worn out. How many miles were on your GP? Remember the axle/spindle is connected to the axle half shaft via the CV joint.
The question you have to ask yourself is did you have that problem (noise) before replacing the hub?
There is already 142000 miles on this car. There was no noise before. I replaced the hub (right one) just because of speed sensor (my ABS was't working). If it's CV joint, what do you have to do to damage it?
BNaylor
10-21-2005, 06:04 PM
If it's CV joint, what do you have to do to damage it?
It doesn't take much when you remove a hub. When you removed or separated the spindle from the hub did you use a spindle/hub separator tool?
I had a friend who beat on the end of the spindle to get it separated from the hub. He also beat on the hub assembly. As a result the outer Rezeppa CV joint was damaged.
Rich suggested that you may have defective bearings. What brand did you put in?
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM, SLP Headers,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, 2.5 DP/Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 72mm TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 103,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
1/4 ET: 13.210 sec. @ 104.490 mph
0 - 60 ft: 1.945 sec.
It doesn't take much when you remove a hub. When you removed or separated the spindle from the hub did you use a spindle/hub separator tool?
I had a friend who beat on the end of the spindle to get it separated from the hub. He also beat on the hub assembly. As a result the outer Rezeppa CV joint was damaged.
Rich suggested that you may have defective bearings. What brand did you put in?
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM, SLP Headers,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, 2.5 DP/Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 72mm TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 103,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
1/4 ET: 13.210 sec. @ 104.490 mph
0 - 60 ft: 1.945 sec.
radeck
10-21-2005, 06:40 PM
It doesn't take much when you remove a hub. When you removed or separated the spindle from the hub did you use a spindle/hub separator tool?
I had a friend who beat on the end of the spindle to get it separated from the hub. He also beat on the hub assembly. As a result the outer Rezeppa CV joint was damaged.
Rich suggested that you may have defective bearings. What brand did you put in?
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM, SLP Headers,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, 2.5 DP/Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 72mm TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 103,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
1/4 ET: 13.210 sec. @ 104.490 mph
0 - 60 ft: 1.945 sec.
I used hub puller. My hubs are BCA or something... the most expensive ones from Advanced Auto Parts. I couldn't get AC Delco anywhere around and I needed them ASAP. How can I diagnose my CV joints?
I had a friend who beat on the end of the spindle to get it separated from the hub. He also beat on the hub assembly. As a result the outer Rezeppa CV joint was damaged.
Rich suggested that you may have defective bearings. What brand did you put in?
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM, SLP Headers,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, 2.5 DP/Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 72mm TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 103,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
1/4 ET: 13.210 sec. @ 104.490 mph
0 - 60 ft: 1.945 sec.
I used hub puller. My hubs are BCA or something... the most expensive ones from Advanced Auto Parts. I couldn't get AC Delco anywhere around and I needed them ASAP. How can I diagnose my CV joints?
BNaylor
10-21-2005, 07:11 PM
I used hub puller. My hubs are BCA or something... the most expensive ones from Advanced Auto Parts. I couldn't get AC Delco anywhere around and I needed them ASAP. How can I diagnose my CV joints?
According to Rich BCA are supposed to be good. He used to work at Advanced. If you are sure that the hub job went good and thats not your problem then the CV joint is a good possibility, especially with the mileage. I say this based on the noise you described when taking the steering to extreme movements.
How well does your Chilton's cover the axle shafts and CV joints? I've got the GM service manual and it's specific to the Grand Prix. I could sent you what I have which includes illustrations via email.
It calls for two methods. Visual inspection. But to do this you have to remove the boot cover. There is also a measurement and adjustment procedure that can be performed to make sure the CV joint is not stressed and in proper alignment.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM, SLP Headers,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, 2.5 DP/Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 72mm TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 103,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
1/4 ET: 13.210 sec. @ 104.490 mph
0 - 60 ft: 1.945 sec.
According to Rich BCA are supposed to be good. He used to work at Advanced. If you are sure that the hub job went good and thats not your problem then the CV joint is a good possibility, especially with the mileage. I say this based on the noise you described when taking the steering to extreme movements.
How well does your Chilton's cover the axle shafts and CV joints? I've got the GM service manual and it's specific to the Grand Prix. I could sent you what I have which includes illustrations via email.
It calls for two methods. Visual inspection. But to do this you have to remove the boot cover. There is also a measurement and adjustment procedure that can be performed to make sure the CV joint is not stressed and in proper alignment.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM, SLP Headers,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, 2.5 DP/Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 72mm TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 103,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
1/4 ET: 13.210 sec. @ 104.490 mph
0 - 60 ft: 1.945 sec.
richtazz
10-22-2005, 09:07 AM
It's not impossible that you got a bad hub, but BCA is a good brand. I would look at the cv axle also, but if the situation worsened after changing the other bearing, I'm still leaning toward a bad new hub.
BNaylor
10-22-2005, 09:48 AM
It's not impossible that you got a bad hub, but BCA is a good brand. I would look at the cv axle also, but if the situation worsened after changing the other bearing, I'm still leaning toward a bad new hub.
Possible bad BCA hub. Heaven forbid. I learned a long time ago to stay with OEM GM parts even if it means getting them out of a boneyard. :biggrin:
I sent him some documentation. We'll see what he determines.
BTW - What is the axle nut torque value for a BCA hub?
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM, SLP Headers,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, 2.5 DP/Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 72mm TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 103,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
1/4 ET: 13.210 sec. @ 104.490 mph
0 - 60 ft: 1.945 sec.
Possible bad BCA hub. Heaven forbid. I learned a long time ago to stay with OEM GM parts even if it means getting them out of a boneyard. :biggrin:
I sent him some documentation. We'll see what he determines.
BTW - What is the axle nut torque value for a BCA hub?
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM, SLP Headers,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, 2.5 DP/Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 72mm TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 103,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
1/4 ET: 13.210 sec. @ 104.490 mph
0 - 60 ft: 1.945 sec.
richtazz
10-22-2005, 10:09 AM
I believe it's 180ft/lbs if memory serves me correctly.
BNaylor
10-22-2005, 10:17 AM
I believe it's 180ft/lbs if memory serves me correctly.
Thanks for the info Rich. Sounds about right to me. He used a Chiltons which stated 150 ft-lbs but he went with 160 ft-lbs on the axle nut torque which is still 20 ft-lbs less. :dunno:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM, SLP Headers,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, 2.5 DP/Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 72mm TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 103,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
1/4 ET: 13.210 sec. @ 104.490 mph
0 - 60 ft: 1.945 sec.
Thanks for the info Rich. Sounds about right to me. He used a Chiltons which stated 150 ft-lbs but he went with 160 ft-lbs on the axle nut torque which is still 20 ft-lbs less. :dunno:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM, SLP Headers,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, 2.5 DP/Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 72mm TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 103,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
1/4 ET: 13.210 sec. @ 104.490 mph
0 - 60 ft: 1.945 sec.
radeck
10-22-2005, 12:47 PM
Possible bad BCA hub. Heaven forbid. I learned a long time ago to stay with OEM GM parts even if it means getting them out of a boneyard. :biggrin:
I sent him some documentation. We'll see what he determines.
BTW - What is the axle nut torque value for a BCA hub?
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM, SLP Headers,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, 2.5 DP/Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 72mm TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 103,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
1/4 ET: 13.210 sec. @ 104.490 mph
0 - 60 ft: 1.945 sec.
I'm gonna start working at the car on tuesday. I will keep you guys posted. Just two more maybe important things: Steering wheel clicks when I make even really small turns and car is moving really slow or not moving at all. I move steering wheel a little left and a little right and you can hear it. No clicks when driving on highway. Other thing - after I replaced 2nd hub, I drove about 15 miles and everything was fine. Than while driving to the store clicking started.
I sent him some documentation. We'll see what he determines.
BTW - What is the axle nut torque value for a BCA hub?
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM, SLP Headers,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, 2.5 DP/Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 72mm TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 103,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
1/4 ET: 13.210 sec. @ 104.490 mph
0 - 60 ft: 1.945 sec.
I'm gonna start working at the car on tuesday. I will keep you guys posted. Just two more maybe important things: Steering wheel clicks when I make even really small turns and car is moving really slow or not moving at all. I move steering wheel a little left and a little right and you can hear it. No clicks when driving on highway. Other thing - after I replaced 2nd hub, I drove about 15 miles and everything was fine. Than while driving to the store clicking started.
richtazz
10-22-2005, 02:36 PM
As easy as it is to get to, try re-torquing the axle nut to 180ft/lbs and see if your click goes away.
radeck
10-29-2005, 12:17 AM
As easy as it is to get to, try re-torquing the axle nut to 180ft/lbs and see if your click goes away.
Problem finally solved!!!!!! Rich, you were right, bad wheel hub.... both of them. I just replaced them today. No more clicking. DON'T YOU PEOPLE EVER BUY CHEAPEST WHEEL HUBS. I learnt it hard way. My trusted mechanic told me I wasn't first one with that clicking. He knew right away what was goin on (unfortunatly he charged me $45 for his information). It happens often especially with pontiacs and caddilacs he said. BTW those bad hubs were DYNAPAK, not BCA. One was making clicking noise while turning, the other was vibrating at 60 - 70 mph. Now, no more noise, no more vibrations :)
Rich, Bnaylor Thank You guys for help
Problem finally solved!!!!!! Rich, you were right, bad wheel hub.... both of them. I just replaced them today. No more clicking. DON'T YOU PEOPLE EVER BUY CHEAPEST WHEEL HUBS. I learnt it hard way. My trusted mechanic told me I wasn't first one with that clicking. He knew right away what was goin on (unfortunatly he charged me $45 for his information). It happens often especially with pontiacs and caddilacs he said. BTW those bad hubs were DYNAPAK, not BCA. One was making clicking noise while turning, the other was vibrating at 60 - 70 mph. Now, no more noise, no more vibrations :)
Rich, Bnaylor Thank You guys for help
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