This is scarin the hell outta me

The more I read up on these cars its making me wonder if I made the right decision....bought my son an 88 rx7 for 1700. (great body and interior) Exhaust system shot, getting worked on. Mechanic checked out everything. The only prob. he found besides exhaust was wiper motor, but read somewhere about problems with the switches anyway. The dealer had to know about this problem so he is fixing it. It has 177,000 miles. I have had some positive reviews and some not. My son is taking auto tech at school and I hope this will be good project car for him but from some of the posts I have read I am going to have to rebuild the motor soon (?) I got about 14 days left to make a decision on this car about keeping or taking the dealer to court and get my damn money back. And if I decide to keep what are my options as far as motor goes? rebuild or find a used one less miles....

You can take the dealer to court all you want. There's no way for him to know how long that motor will last, as for some people it lasts for a very long time, other people it won't. Depends on previous owners, regular maintance, the works. As a rotary thou, if it has been sitting for any length of time without being run, the apex seals could get damaged.

You can rebuild them, does not cost too much, I personally wouldn't recommend doing it yourself.

You can go out and buy a rebuilt, depending on where you are and where the nearest RX7 Specialty shop is. The Ammount in CND is about 2000 for the block, then since your son is in Auto, he can swap all the parts over, would make a lovely project car.

I have an 86 and an 88 that I am currently working on, both project cars. I love them to bits.

You can take the dealer to court all you want. There's no way for him to know how long that motor will last, as for some people it lasts for a very long time, other people it won't. Depends on previous owners, regular maintance, the works. As a rotary thou, if it has been sitting for any length of time without being run, the apex seals could get damaged.

You can rebuild them, does not cost too much, I personally wouldn't recommend doing it yourself.

You can go out and buy a rebuilt, depending on where you are and where the nearest RX7 Specialty shop is. The Ammount in CND is about 2000 for the block, then since your son is in Auto, he can swap all the parts over, would make a lovely project car.

I have an 86 and an 88 that I am currently working on, both project cars. I love them to bits.


Well the car belonged to the dealers mom for the past 7 yrs and I believe it was well maintained, the mechanic that did the check said all hoses, belts, wires, yada yada yada fine. It had been sitting on the lot for some time. The lady that owned it called it her baby and she really didnt want to sell it. I swear I believe its a "Christine" car....drove off the lot to gas station...gas tank doorflap would not pop open. I called her about it after 10 minutes of trying to get it to open and I swear as soon as she drove in the parking lot it popped open. I drove it to a friends house to hide (a surprise gift for son's 16 bday) it drove ok, spit and sputtered some, already expected it from sitting up. That night we could not get to crank, finally did after popping clutch going down hill, after billows and billows of white smoke cleared, she's runnin.....3 miles down the road, nothing, nada....."exhaust system overheat" ... back to garage. Or so I thought, the damn key would not unlock the door! ...the next day went back to jimmy the lock I swear the key worked (oh and the sun roof quit working as soon as I drove off lot, motor works, but window wont move, this car is possessed)....Cats clogged, taking care of that prob. tomorrow. So when mechanic put in new plugs to crank it, after running for a few seconds fine, it dies again, theres gas in the plugs and fouled em out. So thats the next prob. to solve (hope fixing the cats will take care of it). My son will be driving this to school every day so I was really wanting to find him a reliable ride. Alright you RX7 enthusiastics sell me on it!!!!!

Okay, so, the car is possesed? Well, if I am going to sell you on it, it's going to be by telling you that, once it is up and running properly again, so long as it is NOT babied, as that is the worst thing you can do to a rotary motor.

As for having to pop the clutch, almost sounds like your starter is going to kick the bucket, my buddies 86 would do the same thing, dead spot in the starter, with it being a Rotary it is really hard on them.

Where abouts are you located?

Okay, so, the car is possesed? Well, if I am going to sell you on it, it's going to be by telling you that, once it is up and running properly again, so long as it is NOT babied, as that is the worst thing you can do to a rotary motor.

As for having to pop the clutch, almost sounds like your starter is going to kick the bucket, my buddies 86 would do the same thing, dead spot in the starter, with it being a Rotary it is really hard on them.

Where abouts are you located?

LOL, the "possessed" thing just makes me more determined to break her! Dont think she gonna be babied much by my son (and of course I gotta take her out too). I'm really new to the foreign scene, so I got alot to learn. Im a chevy gal myself, (camaros to be exact, have had 6 of em). The gas backing up in the plugs has got us puzzled....especially after he had her running. So stupid question, if apex seals bad how do I tell? Told u I got alot to learn, and this mechanic is about to get the better of me. (another long story) I am in SC by the way, u?

Red Deer,

Well this 7 will smoke your Camaro stock on stock, 350 against the 13B.

Anyways, to me it almost seems that maybe something's up with them Injectors? Could be wrong but, who knows. Get him to test the pulse of the Injectors, there are 4 of them, for 2 rotors.

Telling if the seals are bad. Usually the thing doesn't run or turnover.

Are you sure you are getting the basics to the motor? (Gas Spark Timing is right)

I'm sure somewhere in SC they have a Rotary shop, American for a new block, probably cost you 900 give or take.

Is it a turbo? Just curious.

lol! ok, I already know I will get smoked! Injectors tested fine, all the basics checked out. I'm hoping the clogged cats are the prob. Ok 900 not bad just dont wanna do it any time soon! Nope, no turbo. The mechanic said too that a little work on we could sell it and prob make a profit but thin I wanna keep it and tame her!

Trust me, you don't want to tame her. Yeah, 900-1000 should bet you a block down there, as it's 1800 up here for a 13b Block.

well I mean not tame her just take her out and have some fun but gotta get it going first

Keep in mind, she likes to do about 5-6k rpm. on her own... I know Celine (my baby) purrs when she's at 6k. Shifting her... That's another story, they all have buttons that you gotta know to push and push properly..... with Celine it's 6900-7300 RPM that she really likes. lol.

I would suggest on getting a new block, as you'll have less issues with that.

thanks for all the info, another thing I was told... to put in a switch to remove pressure in gas line when engine is off, install fuel cut off switch in line with fuel pump relay, then use the switch to turn off engine instead of the key , this will stop the vacuum lock I am getting, if u crank and move then shut off, 45 minutes til it restarts, maybe even help overflow Im getting into the plugs after its running

Would be a good idea, as that's what my buddy runs. It makes some difference.

Check the Rear Seal on that Tranny they like to go and lea all over the place.

1700, thats ownage for a non turbo with that much mileage.

my 87 na was $500, and im gonna pick up a 90 na for 1700, 118k on it

did you get new plugs yet? these cars tend to foul plugs easily

btw, i doubt a na Fc will beat a camaro, unless its a v6 or one of the 80s v8 ones

capt moe, apex seals dont get damaged from sitting, if anything the car will lose compression because of the lack of circulation of oil. im sure this isnt a problem that requires an engine rebuild

I dont want o read this, coudl you coles notes the probelms and ill solve it for you. :P

i just saw he bought his son an rx7, gen 2, dunno if turbo'd or not, but now he's worryiing about some of the things going on about it, even taking auto tech i am taking it currently, bought a 1st gen and the teacher knows nothing about rotaries so im on my own on the learning XD

1700, thats ownage for a non turbo with that much mileage.

my 87 na was $500, and im gonna pick up a 90 na for 1700, 118k on it

did you get new plugs yet? these cars tend to foul plugs easily

btw, i doubt a na Fc will beat a camaro, unless its a v6 or one of the 80s v8 ones

capt moe, apex seals dont get damaged from sitting, if anything the car will lose compression because of the lack of circulation of oil. im sure this isnt a problem that requires an engine rebuild

With the lack of oil circulating through the block when you try and crank it over would that not damage your seals?

I wouldn't doubt that an FC would beat a v8 96maro. As I was driving the FC :P

Ok well for the hard starts it coudl be many things.
Low compression due to a bad seal (be it a side seal or apex seal)
Leaking injector/stuck closed injector
Clogged fuel filters
Bad fuel pump

Start with the basics.
Plugs, wires, oil, coolant, belts, hoses, filters, ect ect. Work through the regular matinence schedual for the car. A Ahyens manual may be of good use for stuff like this and its cheap (dont use it for any major work tho, there very poorly layed out and leave out alot of details that you need to know).
If the problem persists then i woudl start to look at some othere things. Such as the fuel pump, injecotrs ect.
The fuel systems in these cars was not designed the best and leads to may little "quirks" in these cars.
A fuel cut switch will help you when starting the car sometimes. But you can still flood it VERY bad so be carful.
Never shut the car off cold, ALWAYS warm it up fully.
Also, when you do start it up let it idel for around 30 seconds, then start to drive it. Keeping the RPM under 3000 untill it is warm (this includes the tranny and diff, as these take longer to warm than the engine).

With high mile's on it like yours drive it nicely. There proabaly is not alot let of that motor and if driven to hard will end up blowing. As for your son rebuilding it, well chances are the school instructor will have no clue about how to do somethign like that. Most arent even familiar with how they work :P

And lastly, thats very arogant of you to buy a WELL used car and then find problems and think of sueing the dealer. Incase you didnt notice, YOU bought the car. Its your responsibility to drive it, reserch the car as best as you possibly can. Put it through a good long test drive, shut it off. Start it, ect ect.
If there is problems with it after your test drive you talk to the dealer. They have no legal obligation to fix any of those problems on the car. Its simpley buyer beware.

With the lack of oil circulating through the block when you try and crank it over would that not damage your seals?

I wouldn't doubt that an FC would beat a v8 96maro. As I was driving the FC :P

you said the seals would be damaged from sitting, which is different from being damaged from cranking the motor. with a omp, the oil should circulate anyway

im no muscle head, but a non turbo FC beating a 96 V8 camaro? :bs:
stock for stock its a low 16 maybe high 15 sec car (FC) vs a 14 sec car (camaro).
unless you were driving a highly modded na with like a bridgeport and weight reduction, i dont think so.
unless the camaro driver really sucked.

I love these cars ive owned 2 now both a 1st gen and a 2nd but being realistic about your purchase is that they are anything but low maintenance. They do have problems just like any other type of car however the service required or knowledge needed by an average mechanic is definately more expensive and nowhere near as available as the cylindered counterparts.

as for the hex on your car not quite sure i can explain that one it just sounds like it may have sat for awhile or it could have been flooded... rotary engines unlike other cars will not unflood themselves. To the question fo whether you would want a used motor or a rebuilt i would definately recommend a rebuilt over a used but from a reputable rebuilder of rotaries. also try not to ever use synthetic motor oil because it will cause hard starts and lagging in a non turbo rotary

I love these cars ive owned 2 now both a 1st gen and a 2nd but being realistic about your purchase is that they are anything but low maintenance. They do have problems just like any other type of car however the service required or knowledge needed by an average mechanic is definately more expensive and nowhere near as available as the cylindered counterparts.

as for the hex on your car not quite sure i can explain that one it just sounds like it may have sat for awhile or it could have been flooded... rotary engines unlike other cars will not unflood themselves. To the question fo whether you would want a used motor or a rebuilt i would definately recommend a rebuilt over a used but from a reputable rebuilder of rotaries. also try not to ever use synthetic motor oil because it will cause hard starts and lagging in a non turbo rotary


Now that synthetic motor oils have been better manufacturered and are commonly available the hole synthetic myth is no longer a fact.
NEVER use cheap synthetics, try to use redline, royal purple, or equivilent.

hi - read some of the posts. have some advice to offer.

be wary if your getting a "exhaust overheat". normally the cat shouldn't be clogged, although at 177k its questionable.

sometimes its a sign of a apex seal broken which also may explain your flooding problem. i almost bought an 83' from a guy who races them and it had the same problem. the cat overheats cause the partially broken apex seal throws a flame down exhaust pipe. the car wouldn't start without push starting it.

another answer, which is one i'm facing now, is if someone had sugared the tank at one time. i bought an '87 project for $200. the mechanic thought he blew an apex seal on the rear rotor - swore he compression checked it to verify. i troubleshot before tearing the engine apart; the tank had been sugared! changed the filter, tank and pump - starts like a champ but the cat is clogged and causes it to die in gear (automatic)

more advice - NEVER use synthetic. synthetic defeats the purpose of oil injection. it has a higher tolerance to breaking down - ie, burning. you'll carbon lock your enging and foul out plugs eventually.

course if you're omp is discoed and you're premixing then by all means...

sweetie - there are no good rx7 mechanics around myrtle beach. hope you're not from around here! at 177k, i'd advise you to look for a replacement. look or an s5 (89-91) replacement motor / car.

good luck, feel free to email me with any questions. ~rich

eh, oil injcection is for sissies

hi - read some of the posts. have some advice to offer.

be wary if your getting a "exhaust overheat". normally the cat shouldn't be clogged, although at 177k its questionable.

sometimes its a sign of a apex seal broken which also may explain your flooding problem. i almost bought an 83' from a guy who races them and it had the same problem. the cat overheats cause the partially broken apex seal throws a flame down exhaust pipe. the car wouldn't start without push starting it.

another answer, which is one i'm facing now, is if someone had sugared the tank at one time. i bought an '87 project for $200. the mechanic thought he blew an apex seal on the rear rotor - swore he compression checked it to verify. i troubleshot before tearing the engine apart; the tank had been sugared! changed the filter, tank and pump - starts like a champ but the cat is clogged and causes it to die in gear (automatic)

more advice - NEVER use synthetic. synthetic defeats the purpose of oil injection. it has a higher tolerance to breaking down - ie, burning. you'll carbon lock your enging and foul out plugs eventually.

course if you're omp is discoed and you're premixing then by all means...

sweetie - there are no good rx7 mechanics around myrtle beach. hope you're not from around here! at 177k, i'd advise you to look for a replacement. look or an s5 (89-91) replacement motor / car.

good luck, feel free to email me with any questions. ~rich


Please base your information off of reputable sources.
That is an old way of looking at it. If you talk to Mazda dealer they will recomend certain synthetics that are rotary safe. This statement applys to older synthetic forumulas that were designed differently.
Motul, Redline, Royal Purple, ect are all great synthetics to use in RX7's. Not to mention the 787B ran full synthetic oil making over 700whp. That is a factory mazda race team, so there is pbviously falseries in that statement.

FDTT I don't see why people don't listen to you, you are obviously one of the most knowledgeable people on here. As for the Synthetics, just like anything else, buy cheap you get cheap. Spend the money on something good it it will be good.

People really have to stop thinking badly about Synthetics. They really are great.

drftkid, I don't know how good of a driver buddy in the Maro was, but his car was working hard to try and keep up, didn't work all too well though. The FC I was driving is relitivly stock, new exhaust on it, that's it.

Ok update....all injectors fine, the main cat was almost completely blocked, like I say when we took care of them it runs like a charm, but now the prob. with coolant system, not getting the light or buzzer on any more and we have gotten the air out twice and she runs fine for awhile. We checked the seals by filling it up then left cap off. Removed the EGI fuse, cranked the motor and did not get lots of coolant coming out into the collant fill and no fuel/exhaust smell in the coolant. She's still runnin halfway up on temp gauge and still boiling thru radiator. Seems like the 2nd time we removed air she ran longer before starting to overheat. I've already checked on getting a water pump, could that be it? Thanks for the advice on the oil guys.

FDTT I don't see why people don't listen to you, you are obviously one of the most knowledgeable people on here. As for the Synthetics, just like anything else, buy cheap you get cheap. Spend the money on something good it it will be good.

People really have to stop thinking badly about Synthetics. They really are great.

drftkid, I don't know how good of a driver buddy in the Maro was, but his car was working hard to try and keep up, didn't work all too well though. The FC I was driving is relitivly stock, new exhaust on it, that's it.

LOL, the reason people dont just listen to me is because they are intitled to there own opinions (despite what is wrong or rite). But it basicly boils down to weather you use mineral or synthetic you are a-ok with todays standards.
As for being one of the most knowledgable peopl on here, im flattered you woudl think so. But i cant call myself that.

I do build these cars for a living, but every day i learn something new or find someone who is able to tell me something that i didnt know or never thought of. Its great, most of the rotary community knows each other so its like a family :P

Ok update....all injectors fine, the main cat was almost completely blocked, like I say when we took care of them it runs like a charm, but now the prob. with coolant system, not getting the light or buzzer on any more and we have gotten the air out twice and she runs fine for awhile. We checked the seals by filling it up then left cap off. Removed the EGI fuse, cranked the motor and did not get lots of coolant coming out into the collant fill and no fuel/exhaust smell in the coolant. She's still runnin halfway up on temp gauge and still boiling thru radiator. Seems like the 2nd time we removed air she ran longer before starting to overheat. I've already checked on getting a water pump, could that be it? Thanks for the advice on the oil guys.

Well have you pressure tested the system. There may be a small external leak.
Check the heater core return line nead the oil filter. Ofthen this hose deteriorates from geting covered in oil. As well as the othere side as if the car was equipped with ABS at any time they tend to leak and make hoses very weak.
Just pressure test the hole system, if its good then park on a HUGE hill, and bleed the system.

LOL, the reason people dont just listen to me is because they are intitled to there own opinions (despite what is wrong or rite). But it basicly boils down to weather you use mineral or synthetic you are a-ok with todays standards.
As for being one of the most knowledgable peopl on here, im flattered you woudl think so. But i cant call myself that.

I do build these cars for a living, but every day i learn something new or find someone who is able to tell me something that i didnt know or never thought of. Its great, most of the rotary community knows each other so its like a family :P


That's awesome man, and you should beable to call yourself very knowledgeable on this forum, as you are.

If you could let the rotary family know, I am looking for a Rotary Mechanic in Red Deer, as we seem to lack one :(

Well learn some more, tinker and mabe you can be that mechanic that is so needed.

haha, I am trying man, I am trying something feirce, the Mazda dealership does not even have a Rotary Tech, it is so sad.

All Mazda retail stores dont have rotary guys. They all left cause Mazda sucks being most of there cars are now ford powered :P

LOL that's bloody hilarious I didn't know that. Why'd they go to all ford powered cars?

LOL that's bloody hilarious I didn't know that. Why'd they go to all ford powered cars?

ford's owned at least 25% of mazda since the 80s

theyve done platform sharing and what not since then.

its not anything new

ie, new ford focus, mazda 3, and volvo s40 all share teh same basic chasis components, the 3 and the focus share teh 2.3 ford engine

this doesnt affect teh cars we care about (ie, rx7, rx8, miata)

Yay! that's happy to know, that's why the 7's aren't total junk then :D

Not to mention the 787B ran full synthetic oil making over 700whp. That is a factory mazda race team, so there is pbviously falseries in that statement.

There are things you do different in a race car than you would in a car that is intended to see 30-40k warrantied miles, or make it to 100k+ without getting a rebuild.

"reliable" in a Le Mans car is going 24 hours without a major breakdown. In a street car, it means 36 months or more. In 24 hours, you're not going to see a few years worth of buildup, and there aren't any cool down periods during the race that allow for it to happen.

In street use, I've still seen people with rotaries have problems with synthetics that they wouldn't have with organics.

There are things you do different in a race car than you would in a car that is intended to see 30-40k warrantied miles, or make it to 100k+ without getting a rebuild.

"reliable" in a Le Mans car is going 24 hours without a major breakdown. In a street car, it means 36 months or more. In 24 hours, you're not going to see a few years worth of buildup, and there aren't any cool down periods during the race that allow for it to happen.

In street use, I've still seen people with rotaries have problems with synthetics that they wouldn't have with organics.

LOL, if you say so my friend. I have ALL my motors running either Motul or Redline, or Royal Purple. NO PROBLEMS. Talked with head enginere at Mazda about requirements and almost all new gen sysnthetics meet the requirements.

PS Old sysnthetics were hard to break down, actualy causing problems like these. New sysnthetics are made alot different. They are designed to be a more unifromed molecual to provide better and more even lubrication, and deterirate at the same rate rather than mineral oils which have different sized particles and deterirate at different rates.

I have proven this wrong many many times before. But you can use whatever you like in your car, im just providing accurate information so that people can make an educated choice of there own.

PS stay away from the "cheap" synthetics, they are still made like the ols ones were and will cause problems with build up and varnish on the crome.

PS stay away from the "cheap" synthetics, they are still made like the ols ones were and will cause problems with build up and varnish on the crome.

This is probably the case. FC fans are notorious cheapskates, so if they went to synthetics, most of them would most likely usually the cheap stuff, which is why I would still hear of so many problems.

Again, the timeframe of the Le Mans car was such that the sythtics then did still have a lot of those problems. Again, basing what a street engine will do on what a short term, rebuilt after every race, race engine has or does is misleading at best.

rx7 = money. this is not a car i would give a kid for his daily driver. especially if he is in auto tech, attempting diagnosis and repairs on these cars is not adviseable unless you have experience with them. trust me, the only people who like rx7s are the freaks that own them, which is a dwindling number since the cars are dying off. but what do i know, i only work on mazdas for a living...

rx7 = money. this is not a car i would give a kid for his daily driver. especially if he is in auto tech, attempting diagnosis and repairs on these cars is not adviseable unless you have experience with them. trust me, the only people who like rx7s are the freaks that own them, which is a dwindling number since the cars are dying off. but what do i know, i only work on mazdas for a living...

explain:

how do you get experience with the car without getting experience with the car?

what a fallacy.

Yeah considering when I was in tech school my first year was the first time I had ever seen a RX-7 and low and behold who had to work on it? Me not by choice but becuase I wasn't one of the screw ups in class.

I had no idea what or how a rotary work for the most part but I did know how to diagnos engine problems which is all you're doing on either engine platform.

You can sit there and think that you need some ungodly knowledge to work on a rotary but you don't, fact is it works on the same principle as a piston engine. It has four strokes needs spark and fuel to run, not some fairy dust that needs a special tool to tell if it's running low on or out of.

And as far as only the freaks know how to work on these cars. Hah! My fiancee knows more about the cars then most "techs" and that's just what she's seen from working around me and she's not the most mechanical person alive.

Oh yeah I know several hardcore domestic guys that love my car not because of the engine but because what they've seen it do with me behind the wheel. Granted not everyone will like a certain car but not everyone will stay brand loyal.

FC driver , a rotary isnt a 4 stroke , it is effectively a two stroke...

Cheers,

holey thread revival batman

ms sunflower, here is the answer to all your questions.....

and a nice prject for your son

http://members.tripod.com/~grannys/mainpage.html

where do yo live BTW.

FC driver , a rotary isnt a 4 stroke , it is effectively a two stroke...

Cheers,


Can you explain which two strokes are removed then? From the best I remember it pulls in the air (intake stroke) compresses it ( compresion stroke) ignites it ( power stroke) then pushes it out (exhaust stroke). Now it doesn't make more then one revolution to do all these process but I would still consider it a stroke or if you want to get technical a cycle. Either way they all four are still there.

not to be a dick...but its INTAKE,COMPRESSION,IGNITION,COMBUSTION,EXHAUST... :)

not to be a dick...but its INTAKE,COMPRESSION,IGNITION,COMBUSTION,EXHAUST... :)

Quit picking on my spelling!!:p

Ignition and combustion are lumped together in the power stroke since they basically are instantanious(sp?) but that's just terminoligy I was taught way back when.

In essance a 2 stroke piston engine uses the same basic terminoligy to define the cycle even though it only takes an upward and downward stroke to include all intake, compression, power(ignition, combustion) and exhaust.

I realize that a rotary is very simular to a 2stroke piston engine in this way but I was just in a piss poor mood when I read this and was doing the best I could to contain myself from exploding.

If you really want to get technical, you could call the rotary a one cycle because it does all five events in one (wobbly) motion. Why are we trying to compare the rotary to a piston anyway!?!?!? :banghead:

just my :2cents:

uhm its a 4 stroke

end of story.

uhm its a 4 stroke

end of story.

You are correct, a rotary is a 4 stroke engine. But very similar to a 2 storke in many ways.

yeah i can see the similarities, but you cannot say the engine isnt a 4 stroke (as someone did on the last page)

yeah i can see the similarities, but you cannot say the engine isnt a 4 stroke (as someone did on the last page)

Sure you can, as it really doesn't ahve any strokes or separate cycles. You could say that a 2 stroke engine is really a 4 stroke using your logic.. :wink:

The rotary doesn't have valves opening and closing, either. A 2 stroke engine doesn't have valves opening and closing. Both use oil in the combustion chamber to lubricate the compression device. OTOH, a 2 stroke and 4 stroke pisten engines both use pistons, rods, and similar cranks, none of which a rotary has.

Not to mention that "stroke" is used to describe the up or down movement of a piston.

Calm down everyone, it is a 4 stroke and very similar to what a piston engine does. I just dont get this. How the hell noone thought of using this geometry before what, 1965?

Sure you can, as it really doesn't ahve any strokes or separate cycles. You could say that a 2 stroke engine is really a 4 stroke using your logic.. :wink:

The rotary doesn't have valves opening and closing, either. A 2 stroke engine doesn't have valves opening and closing. Both use oil in the combustion chamber to lubricate the compression device. OTOH, a 2 stroke and 4 stroke pisten engines both use pistons, rods, and similar cranks, none of which a rotary has.

show me then, because every illustration or open engine ive seen has different cycles, they just happen simutaneously.

if you look at one combustion "chamber", you can see it goes thru four cycles

On a two stroke engine, the intake and power cycles occur simultaneously, as does the compression and exhaust.

I guess it all depends on your point of view. I do not think 4 stroke or 2 stroke describes a rotary. It (rotary) is in a category all by itself.

You need to think internally to grasp what is going on here.

On a four stroke engine you have cam(s) that open valve(s) that allows for a suction to draw an intake charge down into the combustion chamber as the piston moves down with the intake valve(s) open, that's the intake stroke. On a two stroke engine there is a port below the piston skirt which allows air to be drawn in when the piston moves upwards creating a yet another type of suction, this is the intake stroke.

On a four stroke engine the cam(s) rotate and allow the valve(s) to close starting the compression stroke. On a two stroke enging the piston moves upwards beyond the intake port which is no lower then the piston head and nearer the skirt allowing for the compression stroke.

On a four stroke engine at tdc the spark plug will fire igniting the compressed intake charge allowing for combustion and this is the power stroke (which pushes the piston down which moves the flywheel/flexplate. On a two stroke engine the high compression forces the intake charge so close together it self ignites and this is the power charge, are you still with me here?

Now for the fourth and final stroke/cycle, on a four stroke engine the cam(s) turn yet again opening the exhaust valve(s) and the piston is now coming up again pushing the exhaust gas out of the combustion chamber through the exhaust vavle(s) port. It's the same basic principle on a two stroke engine minus the valves and even with our rotaries since they all three have to have these four basic strokes to function, you may not want to call these processes(sp?) cylces or strokes but they are.

If there you think there is any other way of putting it please speak up because there are thousands of us out here seeing the exact same thing and I know I for one would like to see an argument that could disprove the basic operating functions of an internal combustion engine.