6X9's in the back w/ components?

Hey, I'm getting infinity kappa perfect 6.1 components to place in my door and was speaking to this guy at the stereo place and he talked about something I never considered. The instructions talk about using a 2-channel amp to power it. The guy says I should get a 4-channel amp and think about getting new 6x9's later and using the amp to power them as well. Do most people have components and 6x9's or do they just rely on the components. Please respond.

Originally posted by bungschmeill
Hey, I'm getting infinity kappa perfect 6.1 components to place in my door and was speaking to this guy at the stereo place and he talked about something I never considered. The instructions talk about using a 2-channel amp to power it. The guy says I should get a 4-channel amp and think about getting new 6x9's later and using the amp to power them as well. Do most people have components and 6x9's or do they just rely on the components. Please respond.

thats if you want rear speakers later...
with my speaker sub setup, I took out my rear speakers and only rely on fronts... why? its cheaper and sounds better.
You never listen to a concert or a real gig with the sound coming from all four corners of a room, so why would you in a car?

If you're not getting any subs, then I would put those in. If you already have subs, I'd get rid of any rear speakers. I just did that the other day and I'm real hapy with the sound now. The back ones kinda interfer with the sound of the front ones...Its hard to explain, but it sounds better.

it interferes with the front because it takes longer for the rear sound waves to get to your ear as oppose to the front. the front speakers are closer to you than the rear. when sound waves travel at different distance, you hear echo-like sound, causing the music to sound poopy;)

Originally posted by GSteg
it interferes with the front because it takes longer for the rear sound waves to get to your ear as oppose to the front. the front speakers are closer to you than the rear. when sound waves travel at different distance, you hear echo-like sound, causing the music to sound poopy;)

unless you have a good time delay feature in your source unit like i do... hee hee

That's rediculous, it's like five feet from the rear. :confused:

Well I'm gonna go against the flow on this one, I've got 6s in the back for rear sound fill and I think it sounds awesome. THere's not enough midbass coming from front comps to completely fill the spectrum. The music sounds so much louder, cleaner, and fuller with rears amplified along with the fronts.

Originally posted by CXHatchback
That's rediculous, it's like five feet from the rear. :confused:

Well I'm gonna go against the flow on this one, I've got 6s in the back for rear sound fill and I think it sounds awesome. THere's not enough midbass coming from front comps to completely fill the spectrum. The music sounds so much louder, cleaner, and fuller with rears amplified along with the fronts.

five feet make a big difference...
my time delay feature on my headunit can adjust based on length and width of car.. and you can tell when you mess with that.

also if you're not getting the midbass from the fronts like you want... you prolly want to think of investing in a good pair... there are plenty of sets out there with great midbass

Time delay is so nice :)
I have that on my pioneer DEQ-9200!

believe it or not, no matter how far your rears are... the sound waves will always travel to your ears faster or slower than the front (unless you have the time delay feature). for those who don't have the feature, the sound waves for the front and rear will travel at different speed. it may not be noticable but the difference IS there. if you're from New york, would you get to Orlando faster or Miami traveling at the same speed. to an average person, he or she may not hear the difference audibly. to a SQ guy (like me:D ) i can hear the difference. but i'm sure we all got our own opinions:rolleyes: :finger:

can i get away with swappin my existing tweets and adding 2 ways to make up for components¿

Originally posted by m3kidds
can i get away with swappin my existing tweets and adding 2 ways to make up for components¿

going from a component set to a 2 way is a downgrade. if you're on a budget, just get crystal mobilesound component speakers. they cost cheap and sound quality is amazing. u have components right now, why not just replace it with components.

actually i meant change my existing tweeters with better ones and replacing the factory 6.5's with new 2 ways.. isnt that the same as a component system.. cuz i already have a pair of tweets laying around i was thinking about just getting some 2 ways

Originally posted by m3kidds
actually i meant change my existing tweeters with better ones and replacing the factory 6.5's with new 2 ways.. isnt that the same as a component system.. cuz i already have a pair of tweets laying around i was thinking about just getting some 2 ways

i guess you can do that, but its gonna be funny how you're gonna have two different tweeters.

2 different tweeters? how so?

Originally posted by m3kidds
2 different tweeters? how so?

u have a seperate tweeter and another tweeter on the 2 ways. no two tweeter are the same unless they are the same brand and model.

ahhh.. i get it.. so i guess i'd be better off with a completely new set of comps.. how are the infinity reference or kappa, kicker, pioneer, mb quart or jl audio.. any comments on those brands?

Originally posted by igo4bmx


five feet make a big difference...
my time delay feature on my headunit can adjust based on length and width of car.. and you can tell when you mess with that.

also if you're not getting the midbass from the fronts like you want... you prolly want to think of investing in a good pair... there are plenty of sets out there with great midbass

Let's see, the speed of sound is almost 350m/s, which means that at one meter away from your rear speakers, it should take about 0.002857 seconds to reach your ear. And you notice a difference audibly? So you're basically telling me you can estimate distance through sound? Can you also tell the THD of your HU just by listening to it? :rolleyes:

And BTW, JL Audio makes superb components sets, hundreds of times better than any pioneer crap out there...

In a Dolby Digital/Surround system, rear speakers are an integral part of a system. Other than that, you mess up the front stage a recording was intended to be reproduced unless, you've got some kinda Digital Sound Processor to simulate the ambience (ie. igo4bmx). Another factor to take note of is if you wish that your rear passengers are content.

Anyway, if you are inclined to replacing the rear speakers, bungschmeill, 6x9's should be good enough to the most simple of consumers. Real sound/car-audio aficionados would recommend circular speakers if not a set of components which would be amplified as well.

I however, have removed mine... :)

how are the JL Audio VR600 CS VR600cs compared to the alpine's or kickers? any comments on the infinity kappas?

Originally posted by m3kidds
actually i meant change my existing tweeters with better ones and replacing the factory 6.5's with new 2 ways.. isnt that the same as a component system.. cuz i already have a pair of tweets laying around i was thinking about just getting some 2 ways


buying separate tweets and then 2 ways is a waste of money (cuz you could just buy a nice comp set, and would cause weird phasing problems with two tweets at different distances for your ear.


cxhatchback, if you really don't believe the distance plays an important roel in sound. you obviously don't understand time delay, or KICK PANELS...

test it yourself... try sitting in the driver seat, close your eyes and then move your head into the dead center of the car, and tell me if you can hear a difference. you should.

m3kidds
jl comps are really nice, i would look into jl, crystal, mb... i'm not a big fan of infinity anymore, ever since i heard GOOD speakers...:rolleyes:

My friend has time delay in his HU. We tried both extremes. There's no difference. If you can hear that kind of shit you must be a dog or something, cause it's virtually impossible.

Originally posted by CXHatchback
My friend has time delay in his HU. We tried both extremes. There's no difference. If you can hear that kind of shit you must be a dog or something, cause it's virtually impossible.

maybe impossible for an average joe, but many judges have trained ears. they can hear the difference within a fraction of a second. if you don't believe me...ask richard clark from carsound.com he'll explain it to you.

Well none of the people on this board are professional judges with years of experience, so why are you all worried about 2/1000ths of a second time delay?

Originally posted by CXHatchback
Well none of the people on this board are professional judges with years of experience, so why are you all worried about 2/1000ths of a second time delay?

and how would you know that? so you can actually look at people and know if they're professional judges or not? :rolleyes: if we didn't notice any difference...then we would have left the rear fills in. but since we do..we take them out.:rolleyes:

I have the alpine MP3 HU for 2002 and the time correction does make a difference.....

Originally posted by GSteg


and how would you know that? so you can actually look at people and know if they're professional judges or not? :rolleyes: if we didn't notice any difference...then we would have left the rear fills in. but since we do..we take them out.:rolleyes:

No, but professional judges would be a little more knowledgable and back themselves up with more facts than, say, some 14yr old kid. Nobody I know hears an echo, maybe it's your equipment that sucks.

Originally posted by CXHatchback


No, but professional judges would be a little more knowledgable and back themselves up with more facts than, say, some 14yr old kid. Nobody I know hears an echo, maybe it's your equipment that sucks.

first off lets not flame each other, and scond of all i'm not a dog. you should try my test of listening to the speakers from the driver seat, close your eyes and then move your head to the center of the car. if you don't notice it, maybe you're going deaf j/p

Don't worry, I'm not mad at anyone or calling anyone an idiot. I just cant tell you that I hear any echo, especially enough of one to keep from getting rear speakers. They definitely fill your sound stage, I find them very useful. I tried listening and still can't hear anything. Oh well, maybe it's all these long islands.....

Originally posted by CXHatchback


No, but professional judges would be a little more knowledgable and back themselves up with more facts than, say, some 14yr old kid. Nobody I know hears an echo, maybe it's your equipment that sucks.

no..my equipment does not suck. if there isn't a difference, how come people like sparq, igo4bmx, etc take out their rear fills? i don't need to be any kind of professional judge to hear echo's. I have ears and i can hear them. i don't care if you know anyone that hears echos or not...there is something called sound staging/imaging. maybe they don't listen as carefully or something. :rolleyes:

one more thing..don't criticize(sp?) me just because i'm 14. :finger4:

You guys are pretty funny...arguing about what sounds better to SOMEONE ELSE. Only YOU can tell what your ears like. Some people can hear these differences and some can't or it doesn't matter to them. Its like eyesight. Some need glasses, some don't, some fake it. My advice is: get new component fronts or whatever you were going with to begin with and then leave the stock rears in without an amp to the components. It should give you an idea of what sounds good to you.

i know each and everyone of us has ears to listen. just because he can't hear echos doesn't mean that no one else can. it's like everytime i make a post about something..he tries to disagree:rolleyes:

ok so you guys are saying don't amp the components? i might just leave the rears in just in case i wanna chill with the car off and not risk a dead battery... :D

Originally posted by m3kidds
ok so you guys are saying don't amp the components? i might just leave the rears in just in case i wanna chill with the car off and not risk a dead battery... :D

amp the components. components are suppose to sound good so you gotta give it a good amount of power. headunit power isn't gonna cut it...

Originally posted by 93speed
You guys are pretty funny...arguing about what sounds better to SOMEONE ELSE. Only YOU can tell what your ears like. Some people can hear these differences and some can't or it doesn't matter to them. Its like eyesight. Some need glasses, some don't, some fake it. My advice is: get new component fronts or whatever you were going with to begin with and then leave the stock rears in without an amp to the components. It should give you an idea of what sounds good to you.

This has nothing to do with personal preference.

I don't give a rat's ass if they like the sound of paper-coned subwoofers and stock comps, but to say they hear an echo from 5 ft? That's just..... oh what's that word I don't want to use....

Originally posted by CXHatchback


This has nothing to do with personal preference.

I don't give a rat's ass if they like the sound of paper-coned subwoofers and stock comps, but to say they hear an echo from 5 ft? That's just..... oh what's that word I don't want to use....

if you can't even hear that, i wouldn't even want to know how you have adjusted your amps.
can u at least hear distortion?:rolleyes:

Buy new components, amp the damn things, and fill the rear if it sounds better to you. You're not competing so who gives a damn. Most people riding in the car aren't going to notice either, so if it's not an issue to you, then &*%$ it. I have 60.3cs Infinity Kappa components and I like them a lot.

This sounds sort of ghetto, but my plan is to replace the 6x9s in my deck lid, and swap the wires from my subs to them when I have to take the box out. I travel a lot so it's not that uncommon for me to need the trunk space that my huge-ass box takes up. Despite what many people say, I like having the rear fill of the 6x9s better than having nothing. I'd never run them along with the subs though.

C

Originally posted by igo4bmx
if you can't even hear that, i wouldn't even want to know how you have adjusted your amps.

I turned the gains all the way up, isn't that how you're supposed to do it? :rolleyes:

ok.. how did u guys amp the comps?.. with out wires showing?

Originally posted by m3kidds
ok.. how did u guys amp the comps?.. with out wires showing?

I mounted my amp in the back on my rear seat and hid the wire underneath the carpet. From there, it's all under the carpet and to the doors behind the panels.

ok.. how did you get it through the doors without the wires exposed? how hard is that to do¿

You have to run the wires through the rubber boot that goes from the chassis to your door. That's where the factory speaker wires are already ran. You can either take hours doing that or just cut a slit in it and run them through there - much easier, but doesn't look as neat. Still probably the better idea though.

Originally posted by m3kidds
ok so you guys are saying don't amp the components? i might just leave the rears in just in case i wanna chill with the car off and not risk a dead battery... :D

What I meant by my message, was put them in first using the stock wiring, see how you like them with the back ones, make a decision, then hook up the amp, while leaving off the panels for convenience. If you hook the amp to the fronts, they'll be more powerful and you won't hear those stock ones that are getting 15 watts rms compared to 60 watts rms.

...Or just turn the gain on the amp down...:D

ooh ok i got ya now.. i'll try that soon as i can figure out what type of components to get.. budget wise and sound quality..

if you have some skills with fiberglass, i recommend making some kickpanels. it's an option and you don't have to go with it, it helps out. i've heard most people say that without rear fills, the front doesn't sound full or something like that. most of the time people say that because they have it in stock location and stock location aren't always that great. so if you have time and skills, kick panels should be considered. if not, then you'll be fine..:)

you should have 6x9's in the rear and smaller speakers in front if you must compromise like that...lower frequencies take longer distances to fully develop anyways...so you're not going to notice a delay with them at that distance...it's going to sound better if you're a little further away...about the amps...most "component" systems are going to be amped together, with a factory "component" crossover/bass blocker system to the tweets...the amp will push both speakers... much like in a coaxial or 3+way speaker.. except more efficiently...however...only in sounds at higher frequencies would you MAYBE notice a delay...and since these delays are measured in miliseconds, it would only be considered "reverb" until about 1 second...or 100 milliseconds...then it would truly become a delay...not extremely likely unless yer talkin about drivin a stretch limo with tweeters in the far rear...the lower frequencies are going to sound fine/natural from a slight distance...and since you're in such a small area anyways... it's all going to sound very loud...as far as whoever said that just having two speakers would sound better than 4 is not correct...especially considering you said you were putting in a 5.1/6.1 setup...which if your deck supports pro-logic and/or dolby 5.1 surround, could easily take advantage of the directional sound that appears in many of the high costing (man those studios charge a lot) and overlyproduced CD's/DVD's that are out there...not to mention...if you're subwoofer config is loud...i.e. pushing some wattage...moving some air...you could drown out your front speakers easily...and the only two ways to hear the full dynamics of your music would be to turn the bass down (who wants to do that?) or add rear speakers...which would be more preferably 6x9 or 6"s...rear tweeters may be argueably less necessary...i'd say put some 5 1/4" or 6 1/2"s non coaxials +tweets in the front...and two-way(coaxial [300w sound good?]) in the rear...i had a del sol where the rear speakers were directly behind the seats and it sounded WAY better with rear speakers...btw...i sold that for a GSR turbo'd integra :)

drive your car to the junk yard and park it... buy a CRX and notice that your head is almost the same distance from the front speakers and the rear speakers and realise that the CRX is the superior vehicle for tunes. <sarcasm off> if you have a long enough distance between your hea dand the rear speakers reversing the phase can do wonders.

on the discussion of rear speakers, I usually fade my HU a couple notches to the back speakers, turn it up, and it sounds superb ... not having rear speakers just seems unlogical ... i dont understand the logic of only have a front stage because thats how concerts are set up when you have to ability to have surround sound

uhm, did anybody else notice that this convo is from TWO YEARS AGO?? :screwy: